I think calling bluesky users who like atproto cultists is ironic.

The suspension doesn't affect my bluesky servers.

This is not at all surprising given even a layman's general understanding of their architecture. And it is not something that can be fixed simply or quickly. Quite frankly AT Protocol may have some 'cool' characteristics, but it is a rats nest of different components and interfaces.

The thing we should be doing now is helping marginalized folks who bought into the hype establish solid footings here with truly decentralized and safe solutions.

1/

@bitsnpieces
There may be other ways, but this is one. Perhaps call it "Brigading".

A tight group folks who's purpose is to harass someone follow each other, 'the brigade'.

One of them composes a harassing post specifically targeting someone who they @ mention, and post it using "Followers Only" reply controls.

The rest of the 'brigade' piles on.

The post is only seen by the targeted person(s) and the harassers.

Think this is it. If anyone has anything to add, please chime in.

i remember reading @mekkaokereke 's delineation of the #harassment of #black folk around a year ago

essentially using nonpublic #replyguy bullshit. other methods

you can say "well just block and move on"

but the reality is it is a degradation of your experience and enjoyment of #mastodon and drives you from the #fediverse

targeted harassment is not unique to mastodon

but it is a real, here. and we should care

it needs to be addressed with a beefier toolset

@bitsnpieces
Certainly there are ways to thwart it technically, and those should be implemented.

It's tricky because "Followers only" is also a valuable feature many people use for good purposes.

Plus, anything that requires system changes competes for priority with other things like quote-posts.

BUT, one thing that could certainly be done is to name it (Brigading), define it and make it clear that doing it is a ban-able offense. Encourage people to send screenshots to the mods.

@bitsnpieces @mekkaokereke

Yes. And with more, much more, public awareness of the 'Brigading' problem and server rules to specifically target those who do it for the ban hammer. We root out spamers. We can root out 'brigadiers'.

@mastodonmigration @bitsnpieces I'd add that other ways marginalized people, especially people of color, get targeted is with coded language white people do not recognize by default, then dismissing those who are being targeted as overreacting.

There was also a push to put CW on every photo of, say, police interactions. For the comfort of a largely white audience.

There are a lot of ways to socially degrade a group, and the largely white and EU Mastodon hits many of them.

@reflex @mastodonmigration @bitsnpieces

ugh

i posted a picture of a journalist killed by russia once

just her profile picture

i was continually flamed by someone insisting i content warn my post

merely because the topic was macabre

it is absolutely a problem that people demand to be protected from simple realities they don't want to confront

i'm not changing the topic from how people ignore how black folk are harassed

merely contextualizing this really disgusting inclination some have

@reflex @mastodonmigration @bitsnpieces It must have been compelling.

Some people are dealing with mental illnesses that they don't feel comfortable disclosing. Content warnings aren't just polite, sometimes they prevent someone from being sicker. I have to be careful, myself.

absolutely true in a general context

but there is a difference between content that is offensive without need, and simple reality some people don't want to confront for reasons of resistance to acceptance of a real problem, not mental health

their difficulty with dealing with reality (simple pressing realities of genuine general interest, not unnecessary topics) cannot impinge people's ability to have valid discourse

context, context, context

@janisf @mastodonmigration @bitsnpieces I'm not going to prioritize putting a CW on content that impacts society at large when people have the choice to set photos as not showing by default and not following accounts that cover such topics.

Pushing that responsibility off onto a targeted group that has to live with being targeted routinely is not acceptable. That may be triggering for you, but it is literally day to day life for them. You have the tools to avoid it, they don't.

@reflex @janisf @bitsnpieces

Kind of coming around to a different view of this. This is a network. It has tools for posting information. There are also rules that each server has. If someone breaks the rules, fine they should be punished (banned suspended etc.). If they just are doing something someone else doesn't like, then it really is the someone else's problem. They can not follow, mute or block the poster. There is no general style guide or etiquette for public social media.

@reflex @janisf @bitsnpieces

Let's put this is a network context. If those instances want to have rules that involve those things, that is entirely their right. It is not their right to levy those rules on other instances or on the user base at large. We are a federated network. User can decide whether they want to live in that regime or go elsewhere.

@reflex @mastodonmigration @bitsnpieces I know it it, and that's why I try not to hide from it.

it sounds like they weren't very kind about asking. I'm sure there was some icky thing going on behind that. I'm sorry you had to hand their burden back to them. It was never yours to carry.

@mastodonmigration @reflex @janisf @bitsnpieces

the problem of some servers suspending for capricious bullshit, rather than hard rules, is that no one can do anything about that

a genuine problem of #fediverse/ #mastodon

it's an acid. it fractures community

i've been thinking about it

perhaps there should be some sort of server pact to abide by moderation on rules, strictly

so people know there is a space for genuine moderation rather than "well i don't like you, bye" "moderation"

@Axomamma

Yeah, then you can decide you prefer to play by their rules, but you don't have to. No one can make you.

@CppGuy @bitsnpieces @mastodonmigration @mekkaokereke

i can criticize your various approaches in the obvious ways but i won't. because you're thinking along the same lines i am. we have to keep thinking. we need a solution

@reflex @mastodonmigration @janisf @bitsnpieces

let's say we have a #serverPact:

"we moderate on rules, strictly"

posters know they won't befall the spanish inquisition in a nice subset of the #fediverse

but

it moves the #drama from individuals to #moderators, it doesn't kill the drama

well, ok

as long as posters are happy

so, the new drama:

server pacts having heated, turbulent schisms

again: fine

as long as the capricious suspensions go away

just pick the right server pact

@mastodonmigration @janisf @bitsnpieces This has happened though and led to the HOA and it's direct successor, IFTAS. There were good intentions, and many good people involved, but they've always been unwilling to actually regulate their insiders and as a result end up being Club Gatekeeper.

Open to ideas though, I do think it's needed.

No no don't say killed say "hamburger time."

CC: @reflex@retrogaming.social @mastodonmigration@mastodon.online @bitsnpieces@mastodon.social

@mastodonmigration @janisf @bitsnpieces I mean in an ideal world yeah, but in the real world people are, as some are saying, messy. Personal bias is a thing. Hell, I'm very aware of code of conduct stuff as I helped implement them in real world political orgs and I still get smacked down sometimes for my behavior (rightfully so at times).

The solution can't be based on the idea that every situation will be codified, every rule understood equally and all applied without bias.

@reflex @mastodonmigration @janisf @bitsnpieces

well said

the solution is as you say: awareness of our own biases, which we all have. and adjusting

the problem as always: people who don't do that

there really is no solution to the problem from a strict policy perspective as you say

it's a human problem, and it requires a *human* response

but we can still talk about technological tools that mitigate the effort:

moderators aren't great gods of impartiality, and they don't have infinite time

@reflex @mastodonmigration @janisf @bitsnpieces

100% agreed

now we just need to build the tools

*sigh*

it's never easy

i suppose anything worth doing never is