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w.r.t the Social Web Foundation, I'm glad we have some formal organization to help steward the protocol

See, it's easy to get caught up on Meta's participation while forgetting the impact just a few people made on the social network landscape

Meta approached the fediverse in the proper way

They didn't acquire Mastodon

Instead they worked with fedi projects big and small regarding interop

Meta isn't the enemy, fragmentation and lack of safety tools are

We can, and are, building the future ❤️

in reply to Daniel Supernault

Daniel Supernault
mastodon - Link to source
Daniel Supernault
• •

ActivityPub is a protocol.

You can't police who can or cannot participate

Instead, we need to build services and tools to ensure we can provide moderation and safety tools accordingly

You might hate Meta, but you have to admit their presence here will likely lead to improvements in privacy and safety across implementations either directly or indirectly

The fediverse is for everyone, but at the same time, you don't have to expect the status quo

We can do better, so keep that feedback coming!

in reply to Daniel Supernault

Andrea Grandi 🦕
mastodon - Link to source
Andrea Grandi 🦕
• •
are we talking about the same Meta who manages Instagram, to which I *daily report: harassment, doxing, offences, violent posts, unsafe food challenges etc... and which regularly reply with "We didn't remove the post you reported because it doesn't violate our rules". Are we really talking about the same company? They can definitely do better, yes. I don't care if they join Activity Pub, but let's not take them as a moderation example, please.
in reply to Daniel Supernault

Aral Balkan
mastodon - Link to source
Aral Balkan
• •

Are you serious, Dan? Is this satire?

How did Meta/Facebook become a trillion-dollar corporation? By violating your privacy en masse.

ar.al/2022/02/07/everyone-hate…

What SWF is doing is giving Facebook legitimacy; enabling it to launder its reputation using *your* legitimacy.

Let me put it plainly: in Mark’s eyes Pixelfed—however small—is a competitor and a potential future threat. He’s not going to help you hurt him. He will, however, embrace, extend and extinguish you.


Everyone Hates Facebook (but this is more than just about Facebook)

“And my timelines lit up in a rare unity, the left and right, the rich and the poor, the healthy and the sick, all pleading and nodding and saying, yes, yes please, please do that.” - Adam Dalliance Well, it’s official, everybody hates Facebook.
Aral Balkan
This entry was edited (3 months ago)
in reply to Daniel Supernault

Gabe Kangas
pleroma - Link to source
Gabe Kangas
• •

> You might hate Meta, but you have to admit their presence here will likely lead to improvements in privacy and safety across implementations either directly or indirectly

There is absolutely, positively, 100% no way that Facebook's presence anywhere will lead to improvements in privacy. That's complete crazy talk.

You're not stupid. I know that you know better. I don't understand why you would say this.

in reply to Daniel Supernault

Claudius
mastodon - Link to source
Claudius
• •
I respect your work. In the most respectful way possible, I wish to voice my concerns that you might be wrong about this. Why and how would Meta have good intentions about this when there is not a shred of positive precedent for this?
in reply to Daniel Supernault

Rince
mastodon - Link to source
Rince
• •
ActivityPub is - like SMTP - a protocol, I agree. But as we can see with SMTP, Tech Giants like to shape or enhance these protocols to their liking, and not for the best of the (common) users but their best. So I would stay vigilant and would like to make sure that all add-ons or enhancements have to be public and useful for _all_ participants, not only the centalized giant ones.
in reply to Daniel Supernault

Cris
mastodon - Link to source
Cris
• •
I mean... They literally facilitated horrifying genocide in Myanmar because it gave them a dominant position in a developing market 😅 their money and resources are valuable to to the fediverse, but I have more trust that tomorrow the sun will be green than I do that meta will put people over profits. If they see a way to exploit this space, they will, and to be perfectly blunt they may have already found one, and are just working their way there.
in reply to Daniel Supernault

Menel :xmpp:
mastodon - Link to source
Menel :xmpp:
• •

They didn't aquire mastodon because they couldn't and that's enough to think the friendly folks there have our best interest at heart?

Most here, are here to be away from Facebook.
They will block and fight it all the ways they can.
They have just enough of megacorps.

Unknown parent

Andrea Grandi 🦕
mastodon - Link to source
Andrea Grandi 🦕
• •

I'm not comparing "apples" with "trees", I'm just saying that I do not trust nor like how Meta handle moderation.

I'm not even talking about proactive moderation (catching certain content before I see it) but the fact that even when you point them to something specific, they state that episodes of food challenges or clear doxing and offences do not violate their policy.

I've seen fediverse instances with almost zero resources to handle this content correctly.

Unknown parent

Andrea Grandi 🦕
mastodon - Link to source
Andrea Grandi 🦕
• •

if Meta is "too big" to handle moderation, maybe they should rethink the whole thing.

About your last point, I genuinely do not understand it (I may be missing some context or knowledge). Happy to answer if you can elaborate it a bit more. Thanks

Unknown parent

Andrew
mastodon - Link to source
Andrew
• •
@andreagrandi I think it's fair, yes. People keep saying stuff like this as if these platforms are just uwu smol bean fedi admins who were trying to run chill little communities when suddenly billions of users signed up overnight and now they're doing their best to moderate it all but really struggling to find the time what with work and childcare. They're not, they're groups of grown adults who sat around a conference table one day and deliberately chose to allow libsoftiktok to stay on their platforms because they'd make very slightly more money that way and that's more important to them than keeping vulnerable people safe. If your goals for fedi are anything more noble than "make network big" then surely Meta are almost by definition your enemy?
@Andrea Grandi 🦕
Unknown parent

Andrew
mastodon - Link to source
Andrew
• •
@andreagrandi Yeah, I think that's all we can do really. Nobody can *stop* Meta or X implementing ActivityPub, that's kind of one of its strengths. We just have to be clear with ourselves about what we're building and how, and make sure we do it responsibly. (I've not been following your projects all that closely so I'm just going to assume you're doing that.)
@Andrea Grandi 🦕
Unknown parent

Andrea Grandi 🦕
mastodon - Link to source
Andrea Grandi 🦕
• •

@andrewt and I think you (Dan) are doing a lot on this subject. If people at Meta had even 1/10 of your concerns and care, even their platform would be much better.

To be clear, I'm not against federation with them, but I strongly think they have a lot to learn from the fediverse about moderation, not the other way around.

@Andrew
in reply to Daniel Supernault

chomwitt
mastodon - Link to source
chomwitt
• •

Meta. The benovelant multinational . That's a new one.
... mmm. not . wait a minute..
That has an old vibe. Microsoft vs Linux kind of. And after years of 'fights' finally the consensus has fermented in the inclusive sponsor-hunters friendly internet :
'U may hate MS but look and admire their presense and tech merits. And as for the other side .. ha RMS the pedofile!!!'

ftc.gov/news-events/news/press…

in reply to Daniel Supernault

infinite love ⴳ
mastodon - Link to source
infinite love ⴳ
• •

> I'm glad we have some formal organization to help steward the protocol

isn't this in theory the w3c and socialcg? swf doesn't steward the protocol.

in reply to Daniel Supernault

Max Lee ​
mastodon - Link to source
Max Lee ​
• •
Meta is going to kill ActivityPub the same way Google killed eMail and HTML/CSS/JS though? As in: Zero way to innovate without them also supporting it as everyone will be on their service anyways. The only way to combat that is to block their services from the beginning so they can't grow and people don't get used to being able to communicate with the Fediverse over there. fedipact.online/ #FediPact #BanBigTech #SurveillanceCapitalism

🖤 ANTI-META FEDI PACT 🖤

fedipact.online
#fedipact #banbigtech #surveillancecapitalism
This entry was edited (3 months ago)
in reply to Daniel Supernault

Ben Royce 🇺🇦
mastodon - Link to source
Ben Royce 🇺🇦
• •

dansup i love you and all that you do

but #meta absolutely is the enemy

#meta
This entry was edited (3 months ago)
Unknown parent

Gavin
mastodon - Link to source
Gavin
• •
@gabek I’d personally rather Meta were blocked at every turn. There’s a reason I’m here and not on Facebook. Meta is toxic and we are all worse off for its existence.
@Gabe Kangas
in reply to Daniel Supernault

katzenberger
mastodon - Link to source
katzenberger
• •
It is very sad to see a person like you, that I respect, willingly help to open the #Fediverse gates for the #Meta invaders. Very sad.
#fediverse #meta
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