So yeah, Bluesky is allowing Nazi organizations on their platform. They even verified #ICE

Guess they made their choice?

#Bluesky is an official Nazi bar

in reply to stux⚡️

I really don’t understand why people running these platforms are actively supporting this..

Money over ethics, like always perhaps

Let it be clear, I will NOT and NEVER EVER host any fascist organizations, period

in reply to stux⚡️

It is incredibly frustrating to see. I do have to ask, will the bridge to Bluesky be silenced/blocked (if not already)?

Especially since a while ago they also **supposedly** acknowledged that they won't be investing any more time in maintaining it - it will eventually just break. Rather to break the connection now if not already :sad_cat:

EDIT: Although I am certain I read it somewhere, I can't find the source. So it might be just a figment of my mind, apologies for any confusion!

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Aprazeth

@Aprazeth Lots of people talk about the idea of unlinking their bridge. I can understand the idea, but isn't the bridge in place specifically for moments like this?

There are plenty of good ppl trapped on Bluesky, the bridge exists to help them transfer over to Mastodon if they decide they don't like the Nazi bar anymore, without needing to lose their friends. I don't really understand what cutting bridges would actually do to fix any problems.

in reply to River

@riverpunk
The most known bridge is to allow posts etc. to be seen from Mastodon on Bluesky and vice versa. See: fed.brid.gy/docs

However, to my knowledge, that does NOT allow you to migrate your stuff. Feel free to correct me here if I am mistaken of course.

That said, Bluesky has consistently shown - by **actively** enabling known spam/harassment accounts to flourish, going against marginalized group, etc. They are not to be trusted.

If a bar welcomes Nazi's, it's a Nazi-bar

in reply to Aprazeth

in reply to River

@riverpunk
No worries, I had a similar thing earlier today as well so I absolutely get it 😀 Also, good morning!

Previously I probably would have agreed; however, by maintaining said bridge we are also validating and maintaining the perceived value of Bluesky. Why go to Mastodon if you can bridge to it from Bluesky? it works in reverse as well, I know.

I am not advocating for a complete utter block and drop right now - send out an announcement to the instance to let people know.

in reply to Aprazeth

@Aprazeth Maybe, although I think that us technologists have a tendency to forget how little typical users think critically about the tech they use.

If somebody is on Bsky and realizes it's getting bad, the recommendation to "leave and go to Mastodon, they ban Nazis 😀" becomes much more tangible if they can also add "look, some of your friends have their bridge over there already, you can still follow them".

Like, these can be perfectly antifascist users too. They just aren't well versed with technology, and aren't naturally inclined to tinker too much. They need an easy, drop in replacement that requires as little overhead thinking as possible. "Oh look Alice and Bob are both bridged to Mastodon already" makes things incredibly simple.

Although, I'll caveat this reply by saying that I actually know very little about what the typical progressive/antifascist bluesky user is like.

in reply to stux⚡️

The same reason why people bow to power everywhere: fear.

Can you imagine what happens if they'd refuse to host ICE? Bluesky would be dead within a week. Which means people would lose their jobs. People care more about their own families than they care about a great cause. That's why terror works in dictatorships.

Sure, we can talk how wrong it is, but we are living very comfortably with all the freedoms we could wish for. But they do not.

in reply to stux⚡️

It is Accelerationism in action. Joe Scott did a great video about it on YT a while ago. But you can access it from archive.org if you prefer.

archive.org/details/understand…

kat donegan 🇵🇸✊ reshared this.

in reply to stux⚡️

Pretty sad to see how many people are defending this bullshit!

If you’re going to a hotel and management is letting everyone in without a care in the world. Do you go to that hotel or do you look further?

I don’t care how thin stretched Bluesky is, you simply don’t allow nazis on YOUR platform

It’s not that hard, trust me!

Thanks for all red flags btw, good filter

in reply to stux⚡️

This accelerationism stuff makes me remember:

"“The Encyclopedia Galactica defines a robot as a mechanical apparatus designed to do the work of a man. The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot as "Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun to Be With. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes,”

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to stux⚡️

in reply to Emsquared

I don't think it's even just whether you host there but whether key people involved are under US jurisdiction. Also, even if Eurosky didn't directly have that issue they'd still be so heavily dependent on Bluesky and all the users being on servers operated from or in the US that I don't really see a way out of it.

@Distante @stux

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to ikuturso 🇪🇺

@ikuturso @Distante Good point. In theory the technology does let you remove yourself from reliance on Bsky appview, moderation choices, relays etc but yes, as it stands it's harder and quite the overhead to do that. Their decentralisation model is more about distributed resilience than the more anarchic independence of the fediverse instances and yes as you say a corp structure means liability is aimed at named individuals heading a very corporate entity.
in reply to stux⚡️

I'm all against ICE and I support abolishing them, but... What else should Bluesky have done? Should they add a special rule "Donald Trump's agencies are restricted"? This is a social network for everyone. Freedom of speech, besides bigotry. This is not an "alt-left-tech" platform.

You can be sure that unlike Twitter ICE will be punished for any kind of Nazi behavior. But even if you know what they'll do, you can't deny them a benefit of doubt, unfortunately, because if you'll make one exception, you can make anything you'll want an exception.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to stux⚡️

unfortunately, this is the rules, and everyone should follow the rules.

Unless this SS already has swastika in its profile picture or in their profile bio, they will be allowed. The benefit of doubt. You can't do anything to anyone, if they didn't try to do it. You can only look closely for them, and as soon as they'll do something harmful, bonk them with a banhammer or whatever.

in reply to NotQuiteLoona

@notquiteloona

> This is a social network for everyone.

The paradox of tolerance applies here.

> If you'll make one exception, you can make anything you want an exception.

BlueSky isn't a public utility, its a private platform. They have always been, still are, and always will be, within their rights to grant and deny exceptions as they see fit.
@stux

in reply to stux⚡️

but what is your criteria for federating with a server?

I get having whatever rules you want for accounts you host, but a fedi where federation is constantly breaking over hating the accounts others host (when they don't harass your users) is not a reliable network.

the bluesky conundrum on this front is that they aren't really decentralized. so allowing your users to see conservative accounts means hosting them. we should have conservative servers here and mostly federate with them.

in reply to Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱

@stux

Instance admins can defederate or block it. If there is no way as an individual user to do it, creating a filter for the url should keep it off your timeline. That's what I did for all YouTube videos.

I have no idea how to prevent them from seeing you though.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Ducky 🦆

@ducky.ws Hmm, interesting. Haven't heard before that someone could do relays and all on a Raspberry Pi. Is there forks available? Can one develop their own features to Bluesky?

Last I checked self-hosting and contributing was very poorly documented. Rarely nobody endorses or encourages it. PDS is rather easy to set up as a sysop based on their GitHub, but there is no single comprehensive document about all the bits and pieces?

There are dev docs for SDK, APIs etc. like Twitter used to have. docs.bsky.app/

But where's the self hosting documentation? Like: docs.joinmastodon.org/user/run…

Mastodon's world was much more welcoming in this regard.

I have questions.

@stux

in reply to stux⚡️

i wana look up my post where i said bluesky is worse then twitter...that got a lot of hate.

Bluesky keeps proving me right....

Yes they are worse than twitter.

They see, know what ICE is doing and still let it on their platform and verified them.

They went against twitter as its better alternative...so should know how to do better....they choose to be just like it....and that makes em worse.

in reply to stux⚡️

you’re probably saw this, but just in case somebody else needs — this post which identifies a blue sky bridge that we can block to keep our traffic from flowing there.

mastodon.social/@Viss/11590792…


heads up internets:

@bsky.brid.gy@bsky.brid.gy

thats the bluesky bridge account. its how bluesky and masto pipe posts back and forth.

apparently today bsky gave ice a verified checkmark, and welcomed them onto the platform.

so they're radioactive now.

block that account if you dont want any of your stuff flowing across to bsky

in reply to stux⚡️

This is the default ideology in ATProto world. I recall a ATProto advocate arguing at a meetup that Alex Jones should be welcomed.

They believe that everybody should be platformed, nobody should be censored, but that’s okay because (eventually) everyone will have full control over the feed and hosting. Even if you believe in that… it’s a long time coming. Bluesky still has essentially complete control. They keep promising that one day it won’t be like that.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

The Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Hippasus500 aka jwn2

@nazokiyoubinbou @dianea
First and foremost, Stux, I applaud your stance. No one should be compelled to do business with those who lack the morality and ethics to recognize others’ humanity.

But ideas are not power. One must be careful about censorship.

There is a simple logic that applies to BlueSky. (See Doctorow):

Money is isomorphic to power.
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

This is the path the BlueSky founders chose.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Hippasus500 aka jwn2

@dianea @nazokiyoubinbou
As a simple idea consider this:

I have the idea I’m strong enough to push over the Empire State Building. Simply having the idea doesn’t give me the ability to topple it.

You’re quite right that flooding the world with horrible ideas is ugly and must be stopped. But both the flooding and the stopping require power to do so.

Power can be acquired in many ways. Money is a convenient means.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Hippasus500 aka jwn2

@dianea @nazokiyoubinbou

Nazo, I’m not trying to throw off your argument. I’m only asking you to think about how ideas are spread. An idea in isolation can do nothing. It is only when an idea is used to effect an action that it has a consequence.

In the case of my ridiculous metaphor, the likely outcome is my sore shoulder.

Trump speaking as the President resulted in January 6th.

in reply to stux⚡️

American way of life depends on backing dictatorships all around the world, who kill thousands total each month through poverty, executions or by luring a certain country's people into protest, letting them expect military action, only to bail at the last second and causing thousands to be murdered on the street for nothing.. Suddenly ICE, an internal force in the USA, kills one or two people and it's the biggest deal in the world? LOL