## Fediverse the ultimate neoliberal social engineering experiment
diasporasocial.net/posts/47035…
#Fediverse #mastodon #marxism #anarchism #libertarian #Communism #neoliberalism #fascism #censorship #diaspora #friendica
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This entry was edited (2 months ago)
Heretical_i
in reply to yianiris • • •🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁
in reply to yianiris • • •yianiris
in reply to 🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁 • • •Fixed?
diasporasocial.net/posts/47042…
@heretical_i @omartwotone
Fediverse the ultimate neoliberal social engineering experiment
diaspora* social network🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁
in reply to yianiris • • •yes it's fixed, and here's my opinion:
I've experienced once the deletion of a post which was about vaccines a long time ago, it was from a claiming from a user of another instance I'm on. I get the point that in all servers there are rules by owners, some more permissive than others, the respect is the only and common one. also I've observed that many users here have leftist points of view in many topics, when was the US elections, mastodon was insoportable, but I know it's impossible all people have my way of thinking. even though I don't think it is a complete social engineering experiment because we have the choice of being an owner running our instance or changing to another one with the minimum premise of respect. I've not tried diaspora yet, but certainly I've considered other spaces like the social media "minds" which is also federated where I post even more sensitive things than here in mastodon.
yianiris
in reply to 🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁 • •If people can and there are no consequences because of their action they will, not everyday and everytime they disagree but they will. It is also quicker and easier to just delete content and authors than have to reason and debate about a disagreement. And I am not talking about clear violations of the few stated rules, I am talking about unimagineable source of disagreement.
Then if some make noise about it there is coersion and blackmail to other servers, "remove that user and his content or we will drop you from out federation club" .. to which pressure the smaller younger server aspiring to be part of the "majority" caves in to that pressure instead of supporting a user. In many cases this happens without even examining the content of where the 'strike/violation/offense' took place.
This is a broad problem, many just get silenced, disappointing, and return to corporate land where they enjoy 'more freedom" than this malicious dictatorship. Some learn to be more obedient and passive, more polite about it.
Freedom under private ownership of others is tyranny
yianiris
in reply to 🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁 • • •You must have heard the saying, "I agree with what you are saying but I will die fighting for your right to say it"
Here we live like in a Chilean democracy, where they might agree with what you are saying but they can make you vanish anyway because they can.
@omartwotone @heretical_i
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yianiris
in reply to yianiris • •correction ...
"... I disagree with what you are saying .."
I don't see how you take this escape so lightly, "if you don't like it you can become an owner yourself, or find another owner to be a guest at" ...
This is not at all the issue here, that there is no existence beyond private ownership and what it means socially is the issue.
Imagine the streets infront of the capitol/parliament/palace being "private" and you had to pay tolls to protest but if the owner doesn't like your face you don't get to protest ...
Why is this principle so hard to convey ... ooiii...!!
Heretical_i
in reply to 🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁 • • •🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁
in reply to Heretical_i • • •🤔 and what about if the admin or a moderator feels extremely insulted just by a complete opposite post or opinion, (that's a point on the original post from diaspora)... should they deliberately delete or ban accounts just for being the owner of the instance? should everyone and each one be an owner to avoid censorship?
Heretical_i
in reply to 🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁 • • •yianiris
in reply to Heretical_i • • •It also happens if a non-US native speaker is not current in the latest PC etiquette, or what the dominant pseudo-environmental protectionist lobby tolerates as scientific facts.
The intolerance of m-l Marxists to denounce and erase any "un-orthodox" views on their holly scripts (lemmies) interpretation is also a source of agony.
Then we have "anarchists" convinced on "label" level theories, communism=lenninism and enforce anti-communism.
Intolerance everywhere
@heretical_i @omartwotone
Heretical_i
in reply to yianiris • • •@omartwotone
yianiris
in reply to 🏁⚡Omar Two Tone⚡🏁 • • •Ownership of a server means that it is much easier and tolerated to delete content and/or the author than debate over a topic. This is why #fediverse appears more intolerant to difference than commercial services who only care about doing a job.
If the model worked we would see more servers and more people, what we see on stats is more servers going off the air than new ones. No attempt to organize and set rules beyond "private ownership".
@omartwotone @heretical_i
Heretical_i
in reply to yianiris • • •@omartwotone
yianiris
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Vaccines in specific is something I stayed away from, not all vaccines are good/bad and everyone should make an educated choice on one.
You are also making the assumption that servers going down at such high rate is because of experimentation. All I see is a steady decline, when all advocates keep saying get your own server
@heretical_i @omartwotone
Heretical_i
in reply to yianiris • • •yianiris
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Nearly exactly, most respond with "get your own server" to solve your individual problem, when the problem is collective it is not an individual one.
Because of what you explain, expression and communication in fediverse is under the boot of "individual ownership" and discretion. Skewed and distorted just as a pseudo democracy is.
HOW can there be a collective body/agreement to end this dictatorial rule of the "majority"
@heretical_i @omartwotone @luca
yianiris
in reply to Heretical_i • • •True revolution will never stop, there has to be continuously a revolution within the revolution. The moment you get comfortable with your achievements you become just another reactionary force against change and maintaining a status quo. 1917+0.1s
#Fediverse may be a good step for something better, but discussion for the better should take place in #fediverse, not be banned, for the sake of defending #fediverse
@heretical_i @omartwotone
Heretical_i
in reply to yianiris • • •yianiris
in reply to yianiris • •Fediverse the ultimate neoliberal social engineering experiment
Where private ownership provides absolute freedom and lack there of is sentence to #slavery and submission to masters
Before you execute the messenger just consider a scenario then be as critical as you want, as long as criticism is based on rational arguments, not emotional metaphysics and characterizations!
Say you write a little book, you find a publisher that is cheap and quick and you only have enough to print 100 copies, and you sell them basically at cost. 100 people buy them, read them, pass them around, before you know it your ideas have been exposed to more than 1000 people. But lets also say the printer through some clause in the agreement can buy them all back, at face value, and then destroys them. In the fire all markings, comments, notes written by readers are also gone. Furthermore the printer can take legal action against anyone making reference to the ideas on the book.
#
... show moreFediverse the ultimate neoliberal social engineering experiment
Where private ownership provides absolute freedom and lack there of is sentence to #slavery and submission to masters
Before you execute the messenger just consider a scenario then be as critical as you want, as long as criticism is based on rational arguments, not emotional metaphysics and characterizations!
Say you write a little book, you find a publisher that is cheap and quick and you only have enough to print 100 copies, and you sell them basically at cost. 100 people buy them, read them, pass them around, before you know it your ideas have been exposed to more than 1000 people. But lets also say the printer through some clause in the agreement can buy them all back, at face value, and then destroys them. In the fire all markings, comments, notes written by readers are also gone. Furthermore the printer can take legal action against anyone making reference to the ideas on the book.
#FEDIVERSE
No rules, but the servers’ owner’s discretion. No rights, just conditional access and entry to the guestrooms. Server owners are never accountable for material, ideas, arguments, documents, ever hosted, they can make them all vanish.
#Accountability #Federation Rules #Judicial System ? NONE.
To write a document, to explain an idea, to analyze a topic, to make a thesis public, or simply to express an opinion, take work, and work has some value, it can’t all be a waste of time. In physical world expressing an idea in public to whoever is listening is prohibited in the most oppressive and totalitarian regimes. Once an idea is shared it is no longer the property of the person that expressed it, it is shared by all those who have heard the idea. In #Fediverse “the owner” of the space where expression takes place is in the absolute discretion of the host. There are no repercussions for any owner removing a participant, blocking one’s access, even when shared expressions come from other servers, and deleting all content. And by deleting the initial content the rest of the participatns’ comments vanish as well.
#Fediverse, is the ultimate virtual simulation of an absolute and TOTAL neoliberal world. There is not a square millimeter that is public, it is all privately owned, and the rules are indicative, they must be obeyed by “guests”, but the owner is the ultimate authority that can decide whether you exist or you vanish, whether the material shared/published deserves to stay public or be destroyed.
Guests of fediverse servers may either kiss owners’ rear ends and self-restrict to owners’ ideas and perceptions, or risk being removed and all the content shared and exchanged be removed. So they behave accordingly, as subordinates to the dictators hosting the space they use to share ideas and information.
Somehow, very few people find all this disturbing, and in contrast to social media owned and operated by large corporations, many progressive, democratic, liberal minded people thing and act convinced that this is better. I have no clue what goes on in most corporate social media, long ago when I used twitter I don’t remember any post of mine being removed. As far as I can tell, as long as they can sell IDs, cookies, email accounts, and advertising they couldn’t care less what you think. Communists (authoritarian/totalitarian and libertarian/democractic), anarchists of all colors and flavors, never see so much restriction, sensitivity, and censorship as exercised in #Fediverse.
It is absurd, I have never seen or imagined that deleting and censoring people would have been so pervasive and extensive as seen on #Fediverse, primarily #Mastodon servers. #Diaspora owners seem much more respectful of guests and users, and less intrusive in their guests’ discussions.
So all I see here is a neoliberal social engineering experiment going well. If this cannibalism can be tolerated by the “left” minded people then this may actually work on the physical world as well. Absolutely NO PUBLIC SPACE AND NO HUMAN RIGHTS, just obedient respectful guests in private space.
Sad, very sad, unbelievable dystopia. And this is gradually becoming an isolated ghetto of the left that has little or no effect and affect to the remaining world. Just as in real political repression, you keep attacking what you want to neutralize, you force them to barricade and contain their collective being, till nobody can see or hear them.
So real social activists who want to affect and inspire “real people” will lark on corporate media among the many, while the self defined radicals will gather up in this private ghetto where they are under the illusion they are safe and away from fascists.
Smart fascists start and run #fediverse servers as concentration camps of progressive, left, radical, activists to self contain themselves away from society.
#fediverse #neoliberalism #public domain #progressive #alternative #left #chaotic #disorder
#libertarian #communism #anarchism #syndicalism #democracy #communalism
#totalitarianism #capitalism #fascism #private ownership #marxism #dictatorship
@(heretical_I@kafeneio.social)
@Acta Populi
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