Bluesky didn't reach a federated stage where you could choose a service provider in a free country before they started to censor people based on authoritarian demands.

reshared this

in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

I feel a lot of people are mighty confused what social media is about... it is a business, it is about making monies. And any business supposedly has to obey local laws to be able to make money locally or face restrictions/bans. So they will, and it does not matter whether it is an authoritarian or not as long as cash keeps flowing. All the rest is secondary and can/will be thrown under the bus as required. We've seen that a lot before, nothing new really.
in reply to DJ๐ŸŒž

@infosecdj It can be a business, sure. But that's not the only, or even the best model for social media.

For example many Mastodon instances are run more like co-ops. Online communities supported directly by the users they serve rather than by those users being indirectly monetized.

And sure, those communities are still subject to local laws, but international players without jurisdiction aren't likely to have much influence.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Kudra

@d4v maybe do a little reading about how Miyazaki feels about AI.

That's not censorship, that's respect for real art and real artist's work.

@D4v
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

Yeah, that was never going to happen. Commercial social media is always, *ALWAYS* going to cave in to demands from governments and advertisers. Even when they say they won't, and include it in their mission statement, privacy agreement, or whatever, they will rewrite their foundational principles, fire their ethics teams, and bend over backwards rather than ignore a demand like that.
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

I... Not to defend AT proto in any way, I hate it as much as you do, but... There are literally a ton of PDS where you probably would not have gotten banned... Bluesky can only ban you on theirs afaik... I mean I would love to see an example of someone who has gotten this email whilst being on their own infrastructure... They would have to ban you at the firehose level though I think?
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

oh hey cool they're doing exactly what I said they'd do, which is never federate and then slowly become yet another walled garden

it's literally built by the former twitter CEO, who left over arguments about federation not happening, like.... come on here...

in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

it doesn't matter how federated you are. Rogue governments will allow indiscriminate internet blocks, like what's happening in #Spain, where all major ISP are blocking some major CDN and cloud providers like #Cloudflare, #Vercel, Quic or CDN77 (affecting millions of legitimate websites) just because some of their users are using them to host illegal IPTV streaming of sports (!) #LaLiga #LaLigaGate
vercel.com/blog/update-on-spaiโ€ฆ

Darnell Clayton reshared this.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Alex

@d4v that is cuz mastodon(.)social has moronic mods. (my account got suspended after going back and forth cuz a bunch of pricks abused the reporting system by reporting my comment as transphobia and harassment which were false)

I honestly despise that instance. Anyone with a brain who notices what is going on there should find different instances like I did.

@D4v
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

I'm confused. There are multiple, federated Bluesky servers, according to this post:

bsky.social/about/blog/02-22-2โ€ฆ

So, why doesn't the user move their account from a server in Turkey to some other server?

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Dmian ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

@d4v @szewek @kudra Iโ€™m going to assume youโ€™re not trolling and are well intentioned. The problem with slop (weird AI images) is that for you to be able to get something that looks like Ghibli, this billionaire company has to train their algorithms using Ghibli images, without paying them. They are profiting from other peopleโ€™s work, giving nothing in return. This results in artists people getting less jobs, while this leech companies make tons of money, like your friend, for example.
in reply to Dmian ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

@d4v @szewek @kudra If your friend used to do some money making commissions drawing Ghibli-like images, now she wonโ€™t, and these companies will make all the money. Personally, as a creative person, Iโ€™m not too harsh on people using these images. Itโ€™s a fad. Itโ€™s going to end soon. But Iโ€™d like people to know better and understand whatโ€™s at stake here. The work or creative people is being diminished in favor of corporations that give nothing in return. Creativity is dying with AI.

reshared this

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Agonio

@d4v Specific case aside, the main difference is that Mastodon is not one company deciding everything that happens on its servers.

Mastodon is kind of just the protocol, the one removing your post is the administration of your specific instance. Thus, you can move to a different instance and connect with all the same people

If you are banned from X or Bluesky, you're no longer present for everyone there

@D4v
in reply to Wulfyโ€”Speaker to the machines

@n_dimension @d4v billionaires making money from the work of artists without paying them is a slightly different thing to the poors or those who are protesting #enshittification pirating things.
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Dmian ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

@d4v @kudra @szewek Donโ€™t worry much, really. Itโ€™s enough if you understand why some people dislike AI images like those so much, and itโ€™s not personal. Also, if you can do something to help real artists survive, itโ€™ll be really nice too (though itโ€™s not always possible to help others in a significant way, so donโ€™t worry if you canโ€™t). Just that. Have a nice day.
in reply to Wulfyโ€”Speaker to the machines

@n_dimension doing the same thing to different people in different situations leads to very different outcomes. Eg., if I pushed you while we walked side by side in the park, you would just take a step to the side and ask me what is wrong with me. If I pushed you while we were standing on the edge of a balcony, you'd fall to you death.
Would you say these two scenes are equivalent?
@kudra @d4v @osma
in reply to punIssuer

@punissuer @kudra @d4v
Just to get this moral conondrum right in my head;

Stealing from Corporations (push to the side) = Acceptable
Stealing from you (push over the edge) = Unacceptable

Right?

This theft of IP thing is not a new thing, even though millions of artist suddenly found immortality in the machine.

There is a saying that's applicable.

If you steal my art, that's theft.
If I steal yours, that's appropriation.

Anyway, I am of the belief that the AI will be the end of us.

But youse folks are way too late.
Few if any of you were with me when I fought privacy violations over the last 20 years.
Few if any of you were with me end of 2022 when I approached politicians about imminent danger from AI. In fact many of you LAUGHED OUT LOUD at my doomerism.
And I don't see many of you burning data centres.
So I find the indignation from folk who never even used AI properly...hollow.

All the respect to all you cross posting at each other about the evils of AI.
When you have a concrete plan of action, me and my home baked free model will be by your side.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Matt

"That's not censorship, that's respect for real art and real artist's work."

Tbh, @d4v should be allowed to post AI-generated artwork on their Mastodon account. Especially if it was a one-off.

"Yep if you call it like that, it was everywhere and it was cute"

I mean, online tech sites posted about the Ghibli AI trend and include these images in their news story. I wonder if sharing a news story like this also gets flagged for deletion:

techcrunch.com/2025/04/03/studโ€ฆ

@grb090423 @kudra @osma

in reply to Matt

@matt @d4v @grb090423 if the Mastodon instance doesn't allow AI art, then it's up to them.

I am in a private Discord server that mods frown on AI art being posted. No one has been banned yet but the behaviour dropped off after the community made its feelings known - the majority expressed dislike and concern for the various harms, and so it's been rarely seen there since.

I think the ratio here speaks for itself.

@Matt @Eye @D4v
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

do you believe that mastodon servers exist in a vacuum? if mas.to were to receive a notice from a regulator in a country they operate in, do you honestly believe they wouldn't comply?
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

Bluesky like all social media platforms are free to use or not use, they are mostly businesses. They all have their rules just like Mastodon servers have theirs. I don't understand why people get angry or upset about censorship. You wouldn't expect a newspaper, average website to let you post what you want, why be surprised when social media doesn't? I don't agree with all censorship but we shouldn't think we have a god given right to post anything we want unless it's on our own website.
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

This is certainly an important matter if true. Think we need to be careful here however and look for some independent verification.

Has anyone seen anything beyond this one posted screenshot that confirms the story?

EDIT: Now confirmed. See below in this thread and here: mastodon.online/@mastodonmigraโ€ฆ


In response to a cautionary post on this subject in another thread just received this response from @arda constituting verification of this matter.

micro.arda.pw/@arda/1143480854โ€ฆ

In the post it is demonstrated that the subject account is visible from non-Turkish IP addresses, but when accessed from Turkey is blocked with the below screenshotted message.

The post also references a Turkish media article: sonmuhur.com/blueskyda-ilk-sanโ€ฆ and Reddit discussion: reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/1โ€ฆ

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Mastodon Migration

In response to a cautionary post on this subject in another thread just received this response:

micro.arda.pw/@arda/1143480854โ€ฆ

In the post it is demonstrated that the subject account is visible from non-Turkish IP addresses, but when accessed from Turkey is blocked with the below screenshotted message.

The post also references a Turkish media article: sonmuhur.com/blueskyda-ilk-sanโ€ฆ and Reddit discussion: reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/1โ€ฆ

Feel like this constitutes verification of this matter.

Lari Lohikoski reshared this.

in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

For anyone who isnโ€™t noticing, this is the opposite of โ€˜due processโ€™, even though itโ€™s full of words like law and legal.

โ€œa legal authorityโ€ which legal authority, what is the basis of their authority?

โ€œviolates local lawsโ€ which laws, how does it violate those laws?

โ€œBlueskyโ€™s policiesโ€ which policies?

โ€œin compliance withโ€ how?

What avenue for appeal is provided?

All this amounts to little more than โ€˜because reasonsโ€™ handwaving wrapped in cya procedural language.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Dmian ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

@vekkq Humans learn, and create new original works from the knowledge. Thatโ€™s the magic of creativity. Machines only produce algorithmic permutations based on the supplied data, but canโ€™t go beyond that. Enjoy your derivatives forever, because at this rate there wonโ€™t be a new โ€œGhibliโ€ to train the algorithms. Itโ€™s Marvel movies to the end of times, baby!
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

The Gym Nerd

@d4v I'm not sure if you understood that there is no "Mastodon" as a service.

Your instance (mastodon.social) has chosen to remove one of your post (for any reason). In contrast to bluesky you can choose a different instance, without loosing contact to all of your followers and followings. You can even start your own instance so that nobody besides you can decide what to keep and what to delete.

That's the power of federation. You will never have this at bluesky.

@D4v
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

The technical means Bluesky uses to implement this block is to force-subscribe users from Turkish IP addresses to the @moderation-tr.bsky.app moderation list, which hides the accounts and posts seen here:
pdsls.dev/at://did:plc:cquoj7aโ€ฆ*

I didn't review everything there, but looks like run-of-the-mill political critique.

in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

Thanks to a pointer from @grishka this is the full current list of enforced moderation labelers in the official Bluesky app. However the existence of moderation isn't the issue here - it's whether that moderation is based on rules or arbitrary authoritarianism.
github.com/bluesky-social/sociโ€ฆ
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

"it's a #publicBenefitCorporation"

that has no legal bite

it means a company *may* pursue ill defined "public benefit" instead of profit

it doesn't *have* to

shallow feel good marketing

"it's #decentralized"

in theory

like #cryptocurrency hype, #bluesky promises a lot and delivers little, and #FOMO dum dums buy into the promise rather than the reality

it's only a matter of when, not if, the #crypto bro owners of bluesky do to it what #musk did to #twitter

bsky.social/about/blog/10-24-2โ€ฆ

This entry was edited (8 months ago)

reshared this

in reply to GJ Groothedde ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

"but bro! it's got the decentralization vitamins you crave. trust me, they say they're going to do that someday

and it's a public benefit corporation. what does that mean specifically in legal terms, does that term have any actual binding meaning? no. but it sounds cool!

sure the algorithm can be controlled like dead bird site and amplify plutocrat cult of personality and bigotry, but the crypto bros who own it would never do that!"

#bluesky

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to GJ Groothedde ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

"what are you implying bro!

all we have to do is promise the sky the moon and the sun

then people give us devotion and money

we don't have to deliver on our promises. what nonsense is that?

this is the way things work bro!

#crypto forever! WHARGARBBBL..."

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to GJ Groothedde ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

๐Ÿ˜†

mr. ponzi? small time two bit

the world we live in now is mr. ponzi's heaven

in politics and money, tens of millions fall for all sorts of nonsense nowadays, and are taken to the cleaners, and then in their frustration and anger at being conned they... buy into more ponzi schemes

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
Unknown parent

sharkey - Link to source

Cody

Yes, I know this and I have pointed it out many a times. Also if they're filtering content this way I don't think they do it at the app level because there ARE bluesky app implementations that are NOT bluesky's. See Wafrn. So unless they don't care about those (or are stupid), I think they would probably go for something like banning DIDs at relay level...
in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

This just proves #ATProtocol isn't federated and it's all marketing scam. @bsky.app has been nothing but false promises, wasn't it suppose to federate to #ActivityPub natively? Welp, that never happened.

I'm disabling the #bridgy until there are other AT Protocol instances that aren't corporation involved.

Unknown parent

@Wyatt_H_Knott
are you talking about #mastodon incorporating in the #usa?

no

they were incorporated in #germany originally as we all know

then they incorporated in the #us for fundraising

then with the emergent political winds appearing in this zombie toilet, they incorporated yet again recently for a third time back in the #eu

they retain the us incorporation merely as an empty vessel for fundraising now

in reply to Osma A ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

#BlueSky is like #Bernie or #healthcartels, pushing people toward fake remedies that will keep them captive in an exploitative system.

For Bernie, it is the corrupt, warmongering, corporatist DNC.

For healthcare, it is ALWAYS a treatment and NEVER the cure to keep people paying handsomely just to stay alive.

For BlueSky, it is a centralized social media platform where dissent is banned or censored and they lie about openness, preventing MANY from discovering the #fediverse.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

tbones

It seems Threads has the very same problem with federation of EU accounts:
Withdrawn posts (but also the directly federated ones) should be withdrawable federation-wide.

Alternative: Thread posts can be boosted only as quoted posts (without your own text).

threads.com/@oncescuradu/post/โ€ฆ

This entry was edited (5 months ago)
โ‡ง