Bluesky didn't reach a federated stage where you could choose a service provider in a free country before they started to censor people based on authoritarian demands.
@aral @hyde Samesies. I called it years ago! BlueSky is centrally owned and controlled, itโs a fundamental part of the architecture, and any lip service towards or appearance of federation doesnโt really mean anything.
I feel a lot of people are mighty confused what social media is about... it is a business, it is about making monies. And any business supposedly has to obey local laws to be able to make money locally or face restrictions/bans. So they will, and it does not matter whether it is an authoritarian or not as long as cash keeps flowing. All the rest is secondary and can/will be thrown under the bus as required. We've seen that a lot before, nothing new really.
@infosecdj It can be a business, sure. But that's not the only, or even the best model for social media.
For example many Mastodon instances are run more like co-ops. Online communities supported directly by the users they serve rather than by those users being indirectly monetized.
And sure, those communities are still subject to local laws, but international players without jurisdiction aren't likely to have much influence.
Yeah, that was never going to happen. Commercial social media is always, *ALWAYS* going to cave in to demands from governments and advertisers. Even when they say they won't, and include it in their mission statement, privacy agreement, or whatever, they will rewrite their foundational principles, fire their ethics teams, and bend over backwards rather than ignore a demand like that.
I... Not to defend AT proto in any way, I hate it as much as you do, but... There are literally a ton of PDS where you probably would not have gotten banned... Bluesky can only ban you on theirs afaik... I mean I would love to see an example of someone who has gotten this email whilst being on their own infrastructure... They would have to ban you at the firehose level though I think?
Does it not? I don't know what their criteria is... running a PDS would mean the content is hosted on their own server, the Bsky relay would simply be relaying it... They could still censor it at the relay level, but uhm... not sure if they would at that point? I mean at least I don't think they'd even have his email to email him to...
Like specifically I don't get into which moderation method this would fall, afaik there is only Network takedowns and global labling, I assume this would fall under Network? So do they block the UUIDs of the post? Also where would this he done if not at the relay level?
@cody don't know what would be the best documentation for this but they run a moderation service that their official apps subscribe to and they can install mandatory blocks of accounts through that. In this case I think they did it for turkey specifically.
yes but the handle is @bsky i wonder how they will process this complaint with custom domain... "the censor" example is not good because of the things I wrote above. Not mention there is possiblity to run own PDS.
@bsky@signal.dadalo.pl I don't think custom domain would change anything... The data would still be hosted in their servers, therefore it's their legal responsibility to comply with local laws / face the consequences. Self hosting a PDS or using a friend's would probably work though
@kudra @d4v is likely trolling. But it is also not just about Miyazaki's feelings. It is just an infringement on basic property rights. Idk about your posts, but many have not even acknowledged the original artists.
But the point of this post is that you can move to another instance. There might be a space on fediverse even for this most disgusting perversion.
it doesn't matter how federated you are. Rogue governments will allow indiscriminate internet blocks, like what's happening in #Spain, where all major ISP are blocking some major CDN and cloud providers like #Cloudflare, #Vercel, Quic or CDN77 (affecting millions of legitimate websites) just because some of their users are using them to host illegal IPTV streaming of sports (!) #LaLiga #LaLigaGate vercel.com/blog/update-on-spaiโฆ
A Spanish court has empowered LaLiga to block entire IP addresses tied to unauthorized football streamsโcausing legitimate websites hosted on Vercel to become inaccessible in Spain.
@d4v that is cuz mastodon(.)social has moronic mods. (my account got suspended after going back and forth cuz a bunch of pricks abused the reporting system by reporting my comment as transphobia and harassment which were false)
I honestly despise that instance. Anyone with a brain who notices what is going on there should find different instances like I did.
@axel @froge people have moderation lists now which can be created and abused to censor people. Also, apparently some random account marked my account as some black hate account which I have no idea about, but lets be honest, what were people expecting with twitter users flocking to bluesky and doing the same shit they did on twitter?
When fake federation hits legal reality, you notice that it is possible for random regimes to send a demand to the one real central authority, and that's enough for game over
@d4v @szewek @kudra Iโm going to assume youโre not trolling and are well intentioned. The problem with slop (weird AI images) is that for you to be able to get something that looks like Ghibli, this billionaire company has to train their algorithms using Ghibli images, without paying them. They are profiting from other peopleโs work, giving nothing in return. This results in artists people getting less jobs, while this leech companies make tons of money, like your friend, for example.
@d4v @szewek @kudra If your friend used to do some money making commissions drawing Ghibli-like images, now she wonโt, and these companies will make all the money. Personally, as a creative person, Iโm not too harsh on people using these images. Itโs a fad. Itโs going to end soon. But Iโd like people to know better and understand whatโs at stake here. The work or creative people is being diminished in favor of corporations that give nothing in return. Creativity is dying with AI.
@szewek @kudra Well my friend has been drawing ghibli-inspired art for years and now I don't have to beg her to do a photo for me, I don't understand what's the difference. It's just inspiration.
@d4v Specific case aside, the main difference is that Mastodon is not one company deciding everything that happens on its servers.
Mastodon is kind of just the protocol, the one removing your post is the administration of your specific instance. Thus, you can move to a different instance and connect with all the same people
If you are banned from X or Bluesky, you're no longer present for everyone there
@kudra @d4v @szewek The world is actually horrible, but I refuse to be horrible too. A few beacons of kindness in a sea of nastiness can be a ray of hope for those in need. ๐
@n_dimension @d4v billionaires making money from the work of artists without paying them is a slightly different thing to the poors or those who are protesting #enshittification pirating things.
@d4v @kudra @szewek Donโt worry much, really. Itโs enough if you understand why some people dislike AI images like those so much, and itโs not personal. Also, if you can do something to help real artists survive, itโll be really nice too (though itโs not always possible to help others in a significant way, so donโt worry if you canโt). Just that. Have a nice day.
@n_dimension doing the same thing to different people in different situations leads to very different outcomes. Eg., if I pushed you while we walked side by side in the park, you would just take a step to the side and ask me what is wrong with me. If I pushed you while we were standing on the edge of a balcony, you'd fall to you death. Would you say these two scenes are equivalent? @kudra @d4v @osma
@punissuer @kudra @d4v Just to get this moral conondrum right in my head;
Stealing from Corporations (push to the side) = Acceptable Stealing from you (push over the edge) = Unacceptable
Right?
This theft of IP thing is not a new thing, even though millions of artist suddenly found immortality in the machine.
There is a saying that's applicable.
If you steal my art, that's theft. If I steal yours, that's appropriation.
Anyway, I am of the belief that the AI will be the end of us.
But youse folks are way too late. Few if any of you were with me when I fought privacy violations over the last 20 years. Few if any of you were with me end of 2022 when I approached politicians about imminent danger from AI. In fact many of you LAUGHED OUT LOUD at my doomerism. And I don't see many of you burning data centres. So I find the indignation from folk who never even used AI properly...hollow.
All the respect to all you cross posting at each other about the evils of AI. When you have a concrete plan of action, me and my home baked free model will be by your side.
"That's not censorship, that's respect for real art and real artist's work."
Tbh, @d4v should be allowed to post AI-generated artwork on their Mastodon account. Especially if it was a one-off.
"Yep if you call it like that, it was everywhere and it was cute"
I mean, online tech sites posted about the Ghibli AI trend and include these images in their news story. I wonder if sharing a news story like this also gets flagged for deletion:
When OpenAI debuted its image-generation feature in ChatGPT last week, social media exploded when users realized that they could make AI-generated images
@matt @d4v @grb090423 if the Mastodon instance doesn't allow AI art, then it's up to them.
I am in a private Discord server that mods frown on AI art being posted. No one has been banned yet but the behaviour dropped off after the community made its feelings known - the majority expressed dislike and concern for the various harms, and so it's been rarely seen there since.
do you believe that mastodon servers exist in a vacuum? if mas.to were to receive a notice from a regulator in a country they operate in, do you honestly believe they wouldn't comply?
@halva I think Osma's point is that, if they disagreed with mas.to's moderation decisions, or if mas.to bent its knee to a tyrant, then there are many other Mastodon servers based elsewhere that could potentially tell the tyrant to pound sand.
I was just pointing out that on mastodon.social that the rules state you are allowed to post AI images so long as it's clear it's AI and that isn't the only thing your account does.
@matt @kudra @d4v Mastodon social allows it, as long as it is clearly stated that the posted image is AI. If that wasn't done then it does violate their rules.
Their federation works pretty well in my experience - I run my own server, personally, and it only takes 5 minutes and an Ubuntu server to set up. I'd recommend it, especially seeing this.
why I'm bridging to but haven't moved to #Bluesky in a nutshell ... much easier to just move to another #Mastodon instance, once fascism hits your country (and don't think it can't happen to you!)
@loewe moving to a new mastodon instance loses all your postsโฆ so they get what they want. bluesky lets you move your posts to the new server so the disputed content still existsโฆ not sure how mastodon makes that โeasier.โ
wasn't BlueSky supposed to be the bastion of hope and a direct ๐๐พ to Twitter? Look, just assume any app you use will bow to any "authoritative" figure at the drop of a hat if pressed for info.
Bluesky like all social media platforms are free to use or not use, they are mostly businesses. They all have their rules just like Mastodon servers have theirs. I don't understand why people get angry or upset about censorship. You wouldn't expect a newspaper, average website to let you post what you want, why be surprised when social media doesn't? I don't agree with all censorship but we shouldn't think we have a god given right to post anything we want unless it's on our own website.
they say they must review. That should be acceptable. But the result of this review should be something visible even the authorities agree aboutโฆ did they post it? (In science a review is something very time limited!)
so bluesky is now the same as twitter - a tech bro's own social media? Who would have thought that a centralized service that can be theoretically federated would turn out like this?
@kudra Yep, and @d4v can go to an instance that allows it if they want to. Personally, I'm not a big fan of #genAI art, but if people like it, it's up to them. I think people should tag it with #AIart or something so it can easily be filtered. @matt @grb090423 @osma
What's this? American Social media pretending to be all about 'Free Speech' but really only protecting the speech of the rich and powerful? HOW UNLIKE THAT CULTURE /s
In the post it is demonstrated that the subject account is visible from non-Turkish IP addresses, but when accessed from Turkey is blocked with the below screenshotted message.
Siber gรผvenlik konusunda รงalฤฑลmalarฤฑyla dikkati รงeken Prof. Dr. Yaman Akdeniz, son dรถnemde X'e alternatif bir sosyal medya platformu olarak dikkati รงeken Bluesky'da bir ilk gerรงekleลtiฤine dikkat รงekti.
In the post it is demonstrated that the subject account is visible from non-Turkish IP addresses, but when accessed from Turkey is blocked with the below screenshotted message.
Siber gรผvenlik konusunda รงalฤฑลmalarฤฑyla dikkati รงeken Prof. Dr. Yaman Akdeniz, son dรถnemde X'e alternatif bir sosyal medya platformu olarak dikkati รงeken Bluesky'da bir ilk gerรงekleลtiฤine dikkat รงekti.
Anything such really owned and controlled is vulnerable. Anything whose ownership, operation, and management is not totally dispersed in a network is vulnerable. And therefore suspect.
@n_dimension AI won't be the end of us. In principle, machines that take off work from people is a gain. More stuff, more leisure. In practice, the dogma of work expects you to work for money, no matter what. Its up to society to adapt.
@matt @kudra @d4v Another reason to avoid big instances, like mastodon.social, where mods are pressed into more and more limitations and have not enough time to judge/deal with appeals. Centralization is crap.
@vekkq Humans learn, and create new original works from the knowledge. Thatโs the magic of creativity. Machines only produce algorithmic permutations based on the supplied data, but canโt go beyond that. Enjoy your derivatives forever, because at this rate there wonโt be a new โGhibliโ to train the algorithms. Itโs Marvel movies to the end of times, baby!
@d4v I'm not sure if you understood that there is no "Mastodon" as a service.
Your instance (mastodon.social) has chosen to remove one of your post (for any reason). In contrast to bluesky you can choose a different instance, without loosing contact to all of your followers and followings. You can even start your own instance so that nobody besides you can decide what to keep and what to delete.
That's the power of federation. You will never have this at bluesky.
The technical means Bluesky uses to implement this block is to force-subscribe users from Turkish IP addresses to the @moderation-tr.bsky.app moderation list, which hides the accounts and posts seen here: pdsls.dev/at://did:plc:cquoj7aโฆ*
I didn't review everything there, but looks like run-of-the-mill political critique.
Sidenote: I have many hours ago muted this post/thread myself, not following any of the replies here. Not moderating them either. I can't; Mastodon provides no reply moderation capability.
Thanks to a pointer from @grishka this is the full current list of enforced moderation labelers in the official Bluesky app. However the existence of moderation isn't the issue here - it's whether that moderation is based on rules or arbitrary authoritarianism. github.com/bluesky-social/sociโฆ
Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ, interesting. @moderation-ru.bsky.app also seems to exist, but is empty as of right now. Was created fairly recently. So they are preparing to moderate content for Russian users too.
honestly kinda nice that we can see who every country hates without jumping through hoops, wonder if it would force subscribe with a custom PDS (I guess the PDS could specifically reject subscriptions to censors even if it's doing client-side junk to force it?)
Bluesky now exceeds 13 million users, the AT Protocol developer ecosystem continues to grow, and weโve shipped highly requested features like direct messages and video.
@benroyce All who are surprised raise hands. I'm not raising mine. It took me less than 48 hours at the time to realize what Twatter Light was going to look like. @osma
"but bro! it's got the decentralization vitamins you crave. trust me, they say they're going to do that someday
and it's a public benefit corporation. what does that mean specifically in legal terms, does that term have any actual binding meaning? no. but it sounds cool!
sure the algorithm can be controlled like dead bird site and amplify plutocrat cult of personality and bigotry, but the crypto bros who own it would never do that!"
in politics and money, tens of millions fall for all sorts of nonsense nowadays, and are taken to the cleaners, and then in their frustration and anger at being conned they... buy into more ponzi schemes
@vekkq @n_dimension #UniversalBasicIncome and I would have less issues. The playing field for training in an area as a human for a reasonable career has shifted too fast.
Yes, also that. "Here, have this cute meme image. I burnt three forests and generated a ton of CO2 to make it. There's also no drinkable water anymore, we used that to cool the servers. Enjoy!" ๐
@fringemagnet @matt @kudra @d4v Mastodon Social flagship has its own issues, as I've gotten a rise of spam accounts that specifically signed up to the flagship instance.
@dmian You may say learning, but is it so different from calling it digesting data? Humans can't go beyond what data they have been given either. There is no magic to creativity.
@vekkq โHumans can't go beyond what data they have been given either.โ Completely disagree, and history proves this point wrong. Sorry, not interested in discussing with you anymore. Cheers.
@d4v @szewek @kudra thatโs a stupid take for many reasons but is has nothing to do with censorship on Mastodon (which is not a thing btw) sรฅ maybe stop derailing?
Yes, I know this and I have pointed it out many a times. Also if they're filtering content this way I don't think they do it at the app level because there ARE bluesky app implementations that are NOT bluesky's. See Wafrn. So unless they don't care about those (or are stupid), I think they would probably go for something like banning DIDs at relay level...
This just proves #ATProtocol isn't federated and it's all marketing scam. @bsky.app has been nothing but false promises, wasn't it suppose to federate to #ActivityPub natively? Welp, that never happened.
I'm disabling the #bridgy until there are other AT Protocol instances that aren't corporation involved.
#BlueSky is like #Bernie or #healthcartels, pushing people toward fake remedies that will keep them captive in an exploitative system.
For Bernie, it is the corrupt, warmongering, corporatist DNC.
For healthcare, it is ALWAYS a treatment and NEVER the cure to keep people paying handsomely just to stay alive.
For BlueSky, it is a centralized social media platform where dissent is banned or censored and they lie about openness, preventing MANY from discovering the #fediverse.
It seems Threads has the very same problem with federation of EU accounts: Withdrawn posts (but also the directly federated ones) should be withdrawable federation-wide.
Alternative: Thread posts can be boosted only as quoted posts (without your own text).
๐งตThreads keeps working on bringing Fediverse Sharing in the EU with a new message for archived posts:
โThreads will ask other fediverse servers to delete your archived post, but it may still be visible on the fediverse.โ.
Martin Vermeer FCD
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Lari Lohikoski
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Hyde ๐ท ๐
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Hyde ๐ท ๐ • • •Hyde ๐ท ๐
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Misuse Case
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •reshared this
Rupert V/, your auntifa liza ๐ต๐ท ๐ฆ ๐ฆฆ and the esoteric programmer reshared this.
Rupert V/
in reply to Misuse Case • • •Erik Uden ๐
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Daniel Django (Akkoma) likes this.
Erik Jonker
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Kudra
Unknown parent • • •Motorbike Sensei
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Oh dear that didn't take long, did it? And they only want to comply with the law!
Guess social media is dead, then. Extinct like the Mastodon. Oh wait.
Beachbum reshared this.
DJ๐
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Stryder Notavi
in reply to DJ๐ • • •@infosecdj It can be a business, sure. But that's not the only, or even the best model for social media.
For example many Mastodon instances are run more like co-ops. Online communities supported directly by the users they serve rather than by those users being indirectly monetized.
And sure, those communities are still subject to local laws, but international players without jurisdiction aren't likely to have much influence.
DJ๐
in reply to Stryder Notavi • • •Kudra
Unknown parent • • •@d4v maybe do a little reading about how Miyazaki feels about AI.
That's not censorship, that's respect for real art and real artist's work.
reshared this
เฒเฒฟเฒฐเฒพเฒเณ ๐นโ๐พโ๐ฑ๐ต๐ธ (he/him), Lazarou Monkey Terror ๐๐๐ and Wendizen ๐บ๐ฆ reshared this.
Pรครคllรคistuttava Menomuumi
Unknown parent • • •StarkRG
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Lazarou Monkey Terror ๐๐๐ reshared this.
Cody
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •ikuturso
in reply to Cody • • •Cody
in reply to ikuturso • • •ikuturso
in reply to Cody • • •Cody
in reply to ikuturso • • •Cody
in reply to Cody • • •ikuturso
in reply to Cody • • •Cody
in reply to ikuturso • • •Oblomov
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •signal โ dadalo
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Cody
in reply to signal โ dadalo • • •PKs Powerfromspace1
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Szewek
in reply to Kudra • • •@kudra @d4v is likely trolling. But it is also not just about Miyazaki's feelings. It is just an infringement on basic property rights. Idk about your posts, but many have not even acknowledged the original artists.
But the point of this post is that you can move to another instance. There might be a space on fediverse even for this most disgusting perversion.
stefan (stefbun)
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •ombremad
in reply to stefan (stefbun) • • •GunChleoc
in reply to ombremad • • •If they ban you from their relay, you can use your self-hosted PDS to talk to yourself then.
They also still control the ID centrally, no idea what the process is in that regard, they might shut you off that way too.
CyberFrog
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •oh hey cool they're doing exactly what I said they'd do, which is never federate and then slowly become yet another walled garden
it's literally built by the former twitter CEO, who left over arguments about federation not happening, like.... come on here...
Cainmark Does Not Comply ๐ฒ reshared this.
Abhiram
in reply to CyberFrog • • •Lazarou Monkey Terror ๐๐๐ reshared this.
WulfyโSpeaker to the machines
in reply to Kudra • • •@kudra @d4v
Ya, that's censorship with extra steps.
Fash have REALLY GOOD reasons in their head too.
I thought everyone was OK with copyright violations when we were doing big corporate but we feel different now that everyone is on the skewer?
Ciencia Al Poder
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •vercel.com/blog/update-on-spaiโฆ
Update on Spain and LaLiga blocks of the internet - Vercel
VercelDarnell Clayton reshared this.
Nemo_bis ๐
in reply to Ciencia Al Poder • • •Ciencia Al Poder
in reply to Nemo_bis ๐ • • •Display Name
Unknown parent • • •Antin
in reply to Kudra • • •white people almost universally seem to think that appropriation is "free speech"
Alex
Unknown parent • • •@d4v that is cuz mastodon(.)social has moronic mods. (my account got suspended after going back and forth cuz a bunch of pricks abused the reporting system by reporting my comment as transphobia and harassment which were false)
I honestly despise that instance. Anyone with a brain who notices what is going on there should find different instances like I did.
Alex
Unknown parent • • •Alexia Starling
Unknown parent • • •Tom Walker
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •lgsp is moving
in reply to Pรครคllรคistuttava Menomuumi • • •@tommi
> for instance
Lol, I see what you did here
@d4v @osma
Mr. Lance E Sloan (IRL) ๐ค
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •I'm confused. There are multiple, federated Bluesky servers, according to this post:
bsky.social/about/blog/02-22-2โฆ
So, why doesn't the user move their account from a server in Turkey to some other server?
Bluesky: An Open Social Web - Bluesky
BlueskyDmian ๐ช๐บ
Unknown parent • • •reshared this
เฒเฒฟเฒฐเฒพเฒเณ ๐นโ๐พโ๐ฑ๐ต๐ธ (he/him), Lazarou Monkey Terror ๐๐๐ and AFK Robert Kingett reshared this.
Kudra
in reply to Dmian ๐ช๐บ • • •Dmian ๐ช๐บ
in reply to Dmian ๐ช๐บ • • •reshared this
Kudra and Lazarou Monkey Terror ๐๐๐ reshared this.
D4v
in reply to Szewek • • •Agonio
Unknown parent • • •@d4v Specific case aside, the main difference is that Mastodon is not one company deciding everything that happens on its servers.
Mastodon is kind of just the protocol, the one removing your post is the administration of your specific instance. Thus, you can move to a different instance and connect with all the same people
If you are banned from X or Bluesky, you're no longer present for everyone there
Dmian ๐ช๐บ
in reply to Kudra • • •Kudra
in reply to WulfyโSpeaker to the machines • • •reshared this
Lazarou Monkey Terror ๐๐๐ and Wendizen ๐บ๐ฆ reshared this.
Dmian ๐ช๐บ
Unknown parent • • •PirjaPaa
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •punIssuer
in reply to WulfyโSpeaker to the machines • • •Would you say these two scenes are equivalent?
@kudra @d4v @osma
Szewek
in reply to Dmian ๐ช๐บ • • •Reg
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •This is not hugely surprising.
If Twitter is fascist central then Bluesky is liberal central, and the sad reality is that liberals are just the good cop to the fascists' bad cop.
RejZoR
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •WulfyโSpeaker to the machines
in reply to punIssuer • • •@punissuer @kudra @d4v
Just to get this moral conondrum right in my head;
Stealing from Corporations (push to the side) = Acceptable
Stealing from you (push over the edge) = Unacceptable
Right?
This theft of IP thing is not a new thing, even though millions of artist suddenly found immortality in the machine.
There is a saying that's applicable.
If you steal my art, that's theft.
If I steal yours, that's appropriation.
Anyway, I am of the belief that the AI will be the end of us.
But youse folks are way too late.
Few if any of you were with me when I fought privacy violations over the last 20 years.
Few if any of you were with me end of 2022 when I approached politicians about imminent danger from AI. In fact many of you LAUGHED OUT LOUD at my doomerism.
And I don't see many of you burning data centres.
So I find the indignation from folk who never even used AI properly...hollow.
All the respect to all you cross posting at each other about the evils of AI.
When you have a concrete plan of action, me and my home baked free model will be by your side.
Matt
Unknown parent • • •"That's not censorship, that's respect for real art and real artist's work."
Tbh, @d4v should be allowed to post AI-generated artwork on their Mastodon account. Especially if it was a one-off.
"Yep if you call it like that, it was everywhere and it was cute"
I mean, online tech sites posted about the Ghibli AI trend and include these images in their news story. I wonder if sharing a news story like this also gets flagged for deletion:
techcrunch.com/2025/04/03/studโฆ
@grb090423 @kudra @osma
Studio Ghibli hasn't commented on OpenAI's onslaught of AI copies, but the fan subreddit has | TechCrunch
Amanda Silberling (TechCrunch)Kudra
in reply to Matt • • •@matt @d4v @grb090423 if the Mastodon instance doesn't allow AI art, then it's up to them.
I am in a private Discord server that mods frown on AI art being posted. No one has been banned yet but the behaviour dropped off after the community made its feelings known - the majority expressed dislike and concern for the various harms, and so it's been rarely seen there since.
I think the ratio here speaks for itself.
MOVED TO @halva@mk.absturztau.be
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •mas.to
Mastodon hosted on mas.toAmber likes this.
Dave
in reply to MOVED TO @halva@mk.absturztau.be • • •Latte macchiato
in reply to MOVED TO @halva@mk.absturztau.be • • •How many instances really run in Turkey? That's a much smaller overlap, I'd say.
Amber
in reply to Latte macchiato • • •Matt
Unknown parent • • •@bekopharm
๐ฏ Instance rules rule.
I was just pointing out that on mastodon.social that the rules state you are allowed to post AI images so long as it's clear it's AI and that isn't the only thing your account does.
Matt
in reply to Kudra • • •@kudra
"If the Mastodon instance doesn't allow AI art, then it's up to them."
๐ฏ
My point was that mastodon.social does allow it, so long as it isn't the only thing you are posting. I checked their rules before replying.
cc. @d4v
Kudra
in reply to Matt • • •stuxโก
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Beko Pharm
in reply to Matt • • •@matt @d4v @grb090423 @kudra they can do that on their own account on their own instances where they can make the rules.
On someone else's instance you play by the house rules.
Calling that censorship completely misses the point and has "but muh free speech" vibes.
Bluesky is one house so there's no choice. It's only federated on paper.
athmane mokraoui [BoF] โ๊โโ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Tisha Tiger / Neliger
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Annie Hsh ๐พ๐โ
in reply to Matt • • •@matt @kudra @d4v Mastodon social allows it, as long as it is clearly stated that the posted image is AI. If that wasn't done then it does violate their rules.
mastodon.social/about
Mastodon
Mastodon hosted on mastodon.socialDr. Victoria Grinberg reshared this.
Jeff McNeill
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Aleks Rลซtiลลก
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Lรถ(h)we
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Mike Beasley
in reply to Lรถ(h)we • • •Dopes The Frogman
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Chris ๐ฆ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •ะัะธะณะพัะธะน ะะปััะฝะธะบะพะฒ
in reply to Alexia Starling • • •Alexia Starling
in reply to ะัะธะณะพัะธะน ะะปััะฝะธะบะพะฒ • • •Gina
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •punIssuer
in reply to WulfyโSpeaker to the machines • • •@n_dimension No.
Stealing $ 1000 from a Millionaire -> push to the side
Stealing $ 1000 from a poor person -> push over the edge.
It's not about me vs. someone else.
@kudra @d4v @osma
Nohaironheed
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Paul L
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •(In science a review is something very time limited!)
WulfyโSpeaker to the machines
in reply to punIssuer • • •Robin hood was right!
Beth Flores
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •bananas_pizza
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •kolya
Unknown parent • • •what was the actual reason?
Maria Candea โ ๐
Unknown parent • • •Light
in reply to Kudra • • •>that's not censorship because I agree with it
Go fuck yourself
@d4v @osma
Teฬnno Seremeฬlโ
in reply to Dmian ๐ช๐บ • • •Art style is not copyrightable, AFAIK.
@d4v @szewek @kudra
Oblabs
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Light
in reply to Kudra • • •Yep, and @d4v can go to an instance that allows it if they want to.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of #genAI art, but if people like it, it's up to them. I think people should tag it with #AIart or something so it can easily be filtered.
@matt @grb090423 @osma
softyoda
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Till Kleisli
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Light
in reply to punIssuer • • •But it's not stealing, it's copying. Intellectual property doesn't make sense as a concept and it's anti-free-speech.
youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pMโฆ
@n_dimension @kudra @d4v @osma
Sam Van Horne, Ph.D.
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Lazarou Monkey Terror ๐๐๐
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •What's this? American Social media pretending to be all about 'Free Speech' but really only protecting the speech of the rich and powerful?
HOW UNLIKE THAT CULTURE /s
#Bluesky #TechBros #SiliconValley
punIssuer
in reply to Light • • •pluralistic.net/2023/09/17/howโฆ
@n_dimension @kudra @d4v @osma
How To Think About Scraping โ Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow
pluralistic.netMagnus Ahltorp
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Mastodon Migration
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •This is certainly an important matter if true. Think we need to be careful here however and look for some independent verification.
Has anyone seen anything beyond this one posted screenshot that confirms the story?
EDIT: Now confirmed. See below in this thread and here: mastodon.online/@mastodonmigraโฆ
Mastodon Migration
2025-04-16 14:40:27
Mastodon Migration
in reply to Mastodon Migration • • •In response to a cautionary post on this subject in another thread just received this response:
micro.arda.pw/@arda/1143480854โฆ
In the post it is demonstrated that the subject account is visible from non-Turkish IP addresses, but when accessed from Turkey is blocked with the below screenshotted message.
The post also references a Turkish media article: sonmuhur.com/blueskyda-ilk-sanโฆ and Reddit discussion: reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/1โฆ
Feel like this constitutes verification of this matter.
Bluesky'da ilk sansรผr! Tรผrkiye'de ilk kez bir hesabฤฑn engellendiฤi ortaya รงฤฑktฤฑ
Bรผnyamin Dobrucalฤฑ (Son Mรผhรผr - En Gรผncel ฤฐzmir Haberleri, Son Dakika)Lari Lohikoski reshared this.
FreeBall fights fascism
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Light
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •adingbatponder
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •William B Peckham
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •vekkq
in reply to WulfyโSpeaker to the machines • • •Jess
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •David Mitchell
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •For anyone who isnโt noticing, this is the opposite of โdue processโ, even though itโs full of words like law and legal.
โa legal authorityโ which legal authority, what is the basis of their authority?
โviolates local lawsโ which laws, how does it violate those laws?
โBlueskyโs policiesโ which policies?
โin compliance withโ how?
What avenue for appeal is provided?
All this amounts to little more than โbecause reasonsโ handwaving wrapped in cya procedural language.
tyx
in reply to Matt • • •@matt @kudra @d4v
Another reason to avoid big instances, like mastodon.social, where mods are pressed into more and more limitations and have not enough time to judge/deal with appeals. Centralization is crap.
(Not saying that AI isn't)
Dmian ๐ช๐บ
Unknown parent • • •The Gym Nerd
Unknown parent • • •@d4v I'm not sure if you understood that there is no "Mastodon" as a service.
Your instance (mastodon.social) has chosen to remove one of your post (for any reason). In contrast to bluesky you can choose a different instance, without loosing contact to all of your followers and followings. You can even start your own instance so that nobody besides you can decide what to keep and what to delete.
That's the power of federation. You will never have this at bluesky.
Maria Candea โ ๐
in reply to kolya • • •@kolya @d4v @kudra only a post was removed on Mastodon mastodon.social/@d4v/114346383โฆ
We actually speak about the account of a Turkish activist closed by Bluesky (top of the thread)
D4v
2025-04-16 07:09:11
Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •The technical means Bluesky uses to implement this block is to force-subscribe users from Turkish IP addresses to the @moderation-tr.bsky.app moderation list, which hides the accounts and posts seen here:
pdsls.dev/at://did:plc:cquoj7aโฆ*
I didn't review everything there, but looks like run-of-the-mill political critique.
PDSls
pdsls.devBen Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ reshared this.
Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •github.com/bluesky-social/sociโฆ
social-app/src/state/session/additional-moderation-authorities.ts at main ยท bluesky-social/social-app
GitHubะัะธะณะพัะธะน ะะปััะฝะธะบะพะฒ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •@moderation-ru.bsky.appalso seems to exist, but is empty as of right now. Was created fairly recently. So they are preparing to moderate content for Russian users too.reshared this
Kalle Kniivilä, Ville 'cos' R and Martin Vermeer FCD reshared this.
Shiny Quagsire
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Fabianใใใกใใขใณใ๐ณ๏ธโ๐
Unknown parent • • •Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •"it's a #publicBenefitCorporation"
that has no legal bite
it means a company *may* pursue ill defined "public benefit" instead of profit
it doesn't *have* to
shallow feel good marketing
"it's #decentralized"
in theory
like #cryptocurrency hype, #bluesky promises a lot and delivers little, and #FOMO dum dums buy into the promise rather than the reality
it's only a matter of when, not if, the #crypto bro owners of bluesky do to it what #musk did to #twitter
bsky.social/about/blog/10-24-2โฆ
Bluesky Announces Series A to Grow Network of 13M+ Users - Bluesky
Blueskyreshared this
Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ and oldguycrusty reshared this.
GJ Groothedde ๐ช๐บ
in reply to Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ • • •All who are surprised raise hands. I'm not raising mine. It took me less than 48 hours at the time to realize what Twatter Light was going to look like.
@osma
Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ
in reply to GJ Groothedde ๐ช๐บ • • •"but bro! it's got the decentralization vitamins you crave. trust me, they say they're going to do that someday
and it's a public benefit corporation. what does that mean specifically in legal terms, does that term have any actual binding meaning? no. but it sounds cool!
sure the algorithm can be controlled like dead bird site and amplify plutocrat cult of personality and bigotry, but the crypto bros who own it would never do that!"
#bluesky
Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ reshared this.
GJ Groothedde ๐ช๐บ
in reply to Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ • • •Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ
in reply to GJ Groothedde ๐ช๐บ • • •"what are you implying bro!
all we have to do is promise the sky the moon and the sun
then people give us devotion and money
we don't have to deliver on our promises. what nonsense is that?
this is the way things work bro!
#crypto forever! WHARGARBBBL..."
Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ reshared this.
GJ Groothedde ๐ช๐บ
in reply to Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ • • •Well, let them dip their crypto in beer batter, fry it and try to eat it, says I. Give my regards to Mr Ponzi!
@osma
Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ
in reply to GJ Groothedde ๐ช๐บ • • •๐
mr. ponzi? small time two bit
the world we live in now is mr. ponzi's heaven
in politics and money, tens of millions fall for all sorts of nonsense nowadays, and are taken to the cleaners, and then in their frustration and anger at being conned they... buy into more ponzi schemes
GJ Groothedde ๐ช๐บ
in reply to Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ • • •Yep. Enough gullible marks for all the carnies!
@osma
CHB
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Kudra
in reply to punIssuer • • •RinostarGames
in reply to Dmian ๐ช๐บ • • •@dmian @vekkq It will all be AI slop trained on AI slop when there aren't artists anymore.
Let's also not forget the enormous energy usage of these LLMs. We'll be baked alive while the AI continues to churn out garbage for ever.
Kudra
in reply to vekkq • • •Andromxda ๐บ๐ฆ๐ต๐ธ๐น๐ผ
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Subalt dog likes this.
Subalt dog reshared this.
Isarblues
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •Turns out: Bluesky is not a solution if you want to move away from Twitter/X
#UnplugTrump
#Fediverse
Dmian ๐ช๐บ
in reply to RinostarGames • • •S.R. Weaver
in reply to Annie Hsh ๐พ๐โ • • •vekkq
in reply to Dmian ๐ช๐บ • • •You may say learning, but is it so different from calling it digesting data?
Humans can't go beyond what data they have been given either.
There is no magic to creativity.
Dmian ๐ช๐บ
in reply to vekkq • • •Completely disagree, and history proves this point wrong.
Sorry, not interested in discussing with you anymore. Cheers.
Robert
Unknown parent • • •@lari
That appears to read as a repentive terrorist, so.... ?
Faraiwe
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •I mean, who is surprised?
Anyone?
Luna Lactea
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •cmdr โ nova โธธ :~$ ๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธ
Unknown parent • • •Johan Pelck Olsen
in reply to D4v • • •Cody
Unknown parent • • •Liam
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •This just proves #ATProtocol isn't federated and it's all marketing scam. @bsky.app has been nothing but false promises, wasn't it suppose to federate to #ActivityPub natively? Welp, that never happened.
I'm disabling the #bridgy until there are other AT Protocol instances that aren't corporation involved.
Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ
Unknown parent • • •@Wyatt_H_Knott
are you talking about #mastodon incorporating in the #usa?
no
they were incorporated in #germany originally as we all know
then they incorporated in the #us for fundraising
then with the emergent political winds appearing in this zombie toilet, they incorporated yet again recently for a third time back in the #eu
they retain the us incorporation merely as an empty vessel for fundraising now
Ben Royce ๐บ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฉ
Unknown parent • • •@Wyatt_H_Knott
๐ฌ
i didn't know that
thank you for educating me
yeah i'm unhappy about that
and the whole meta thing is an obscenity
harryprayiv
in reply to Osma A ๐ซ๐ฎ๐บ๐ฆ • • •#BlueSky is like #Bernie or #healthcartels, pushing people toward fake remedies that will keep them captive in an exploitative system.
For Bernie, it is the corrupt, warmongering, corporatist DNC.
For healthcare, it is ALWAYS a treatment and NEVER the cure to keep people paying handsomely just to stay alive.
For BlueSky, it is a centralized social media platform where dissent is banned or censored and they lie about openness, preventing MANY from discovering the #fediverse.
tbones
Unknown parent • • •It seems Threads has the very same problem with federation of EU accounts:
Withdrawn posts (but also the directly federated ones) should be withdrawable federation-wide.
Alternative: Thread posts can be boosted only as quoted posts (without your own text).
threads.com/@oncescuradu/post/โฆ
Radu Oncescu (@oncescuradu) auf Threads)
Threads