Moderation. It’s a roller coaster.

Today, a (literal) nazi opened an account and began harassing people. We received ~80 reports within minutes. That may be a record.

We suspended the account, of course. But not before a lot of people yelled at us. For the record, this is not preventable when registration is open. We can only react. So be nice.

My gratitude and love for the person behind this report. It made me chuckle. 🫶🏻

🧵 1/4

#Moderation #Mastodon #MasTo #BeKind #PunchANazi #FediAdmin

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

Some clarity on how Mastodon registrations work.

Admins can use closed or open registration. New accounts need approval if closed, while anyone can register when open. Mas.to is open. When we get an influx of bad accounts, we close for a bit.

The only way to guarantee no rogue accounts is with closed reg. Open reg means bad folks can appear. But we react as quickly as possible when that happens. Which requires reports from y’all.

🧵 2/3

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

We’re a huge server. One of the biggest. So we get targeted. A lot.

For every nazi account you may see for a brief moment, you don’t see hundreds of others that we managed to catch before you saw it. We block some email domains and IPs when we can. We do tons of pre-emptive work behind the scenes.

We’re also volunteers. We have a team that spans many time zones. But that doesn’t mean we have someone on guard 24/7/365. Shit happens. It’s no reflection of the integrity of our team/server.

🧵 3/4

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

One last note, then I’ll STFU about this…

Feedback is appreciated. IF it’s kind and helpful.

It hurts me that a nazi slipped through today. Like, it crushes my soul and makes me sad. And I want for us to prevent that.

So we’re going to use this as a learning moment to see what else we can do moving forward.

🧵 4/4

in reply to LucileDT

@luciledt
I have the same question 😀 we have closed registrations on our server and it's working well to filter out bad actors (we never had to moderate one of our own accounts at least for now). It's really not a big cost to look through the list of requests and click "accept" when they seem genuine and justified. We sometimes discuss the ambiguous cases between mods.
Of course we are a very small instance and I imagine having a lot more account requests would be more time-consuming... but isn't it worth it?
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

@luciledt
Do you mean that you don't have enough mods to deal with closed registrations? If so - why not recruit a few more from your instance members? That's also something we do from time to time, we'll usually ask those of our users who regularly send "good" reports if they'd like to help by becoming a mod. Some accept and it is definitely helpful! We are now 4 mods for a ~200 regularly-active userbase.
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

You're enabling Nazis. That's what open registration means.

Just say you're okay with hurting minorities in the name of growth and your own comfort.

Type "white supremacy comfort" into a search engine sometime. The results don't use the words "kind and helpful" but it's very very close.

Goddess forbid you had to listen to uncomfortable feedback.

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

Another moderator here. We used to have open registrations but moved to closed after one of the spam attack waves. But before we made that change we've been in a position similar to yours (but less extreme, since we're not nearly as large and it wasn't a Nazi).

So: Much love to you and the moderation team. I know how frustrating it is when something like this happens. If it's incredibly uncommon, I'd say you're doing a terrific job. I know I've heard only good things about mas.to.

(We saw two reports of Nazi accounts yesterday, and at least one of them was on a site other than yours.)

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

also hats off for being transparent, honest and upfront.


Actually no…

It's just that NOONE wants to sign up with mastodon.art due to being run by a person who prefers to 'choose to die on a hill' with a transmisogynist asshole and the entire #Fediverse outside your bubble decided to #quarantine both of you and your followers due to you literally bullying instances into following your demands or get defederated

  • Your words and actions have mostly harmed #artists and the #Fediverse due to the misguided recommendation of mastodon.art by joinmastodon.org (back then) and subsequent fact that many moved to #ShitSky instead…

YOU as an Admin failed - by allying with an unhinged egoist with Messiah Complex!

#TheBadSpace #WelshPixie #Ro

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

Feedback from an admin who has also been a mod on a medium server (thousands of users):

Little instance owners like me have no leverage to convince Gargron to add badly needed moderation tools, but your server, as a well-known large server, is in a unique position to dictate to him what new technical measures Mastodon should add to prevent harm to the Fedi.

That may take the form of restricting the ability of new users to DM off-instance; or a digest email sent to mods listing the users who just signed up along with their bios and avatars; or preventing new users from following the same remote users that banned users followed.

Have a think about how this user you suspended behaved and how you could have prevented it from escalating. Then ask Gargron for that feature.

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

also even then closed / approval-only registration is no guarantee against bad actors starting off behaving at first, nor against bad actors in the form of Administrators & Moderators!


meanwhile #WelshPixie is self-circlejerking like we all know her

Clearly ignoring that NOONE wants to use an instance that is run by a bully and thus mostly defederated!

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Calligrafae

@welshpixie To clarify, it's the hyperbole that I think is unhelpful. Throwing "nazi bar" accusations at an instance because it took their mods, what - an hour or two? - to suspend an asshole account is unfair. Also I suspect that Mark takes user safety very seriously, and it would be insulting to suggest otherwise.

Instead it would be more helpful to spread the word that those in marginalised/high-risk groups may be better served at a smaller, more curated (non-open reg) instance.

in reply to Colin H.

@GlasWolf You're suggesting that marginalised people move to smaller spaces that curate to their needs specifically (something something segregation something) instead of suggesting that ALL spaces should be made safe for marginalised people. You and those who think like you are the reason marginalised people still struggle to find safe spaces, online or otherwise.
in reply to amy tech (bones)

@amy @welshpixie It's a fair point, but what is the perfect scenario here? Being able to be on a large(-ish) instance with "perfect" moderation? I don't think it's controversial to say that given finite (volunteer) resources, the larger the instance, the more resource-intensive/less likely it is that perfect moderation will be achieved. Something to strive for, yes, but it's not realistic.
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

Moderation and management of open services is a thankless, soul-crushing task sometimes. I hope you know that more people appreciate your work than find fault with it. And the people getting angry with you are mostly angry that Nazis exist, and misdirecting it at y'all.

Anyway, please keep up the good work and banning the baddies.

in reply to Joe Brockmeier

@jzb as the person who owns mastodon.art and so has definite insight into how moderation works, and who runs .art as a safe space instance that prioritises the safety of the marginalised members of our community, I can 100% say that I am angry at open sign up instances *specifically*, because being open sign up allows nazis to enter easily and contributes extra moderation work to *other* instances that have to clean up their mess. Don't overwrite my agency, thank you.
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

@alice thank you, Alice. I really appreciate that you took the time to say this. I respect and appreciate you for the human being you are and for everything you do for fedi.

I’ve been targeted since I posted about this. Some people have sent me some really nasty shit (some anti-Semitic). It sucks. And it’s ironic given the context. I just wish people would stop demonizing us.

Anyway, thank you. Your kindness is a gift. 🫶🏻

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

GunChleoc

I have seen the 8's in Asian casino spam account names 😁

The new account name rules feature will have a choice of outright blocking or putting the account in a moderation queue to be approved manually.

Number codes can be tricky, so those better go into a queue rather than outright blocking them.

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

I don't know if this was the same thing, but I saw(and boosted) posts talking about people who literally had Nazi-esque usernames. Is that the situation here? If so, how can open registration not have a blacklist of names that, at the very least, would be quarantined(to deal with things where bad words in one language appear in other languages in more favourable contexts)?

Also, thank you for all the work you do to improve the community.

in reply to 賢進ジェンナ

@kenjen I can’t speak to what you saw. But I can say that we certainly wouldn’t allow anything nazi-related as a username, real name, avatar, poster, etc.

Unfortunately, we can’t block everything preemptively. Some stuff gets through. We only have the tools Mastodon makes available to us. We do our best with them. But people are sneaky and crafty.

It takes a village. We all have to work together.

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

@kenjen

Is hybrid possible?

Like if somebody has "88" in their name it gets set on a watchlist or set to need approval on a usually open server.

Or x reports dropping from long term accounts to result in an account lock that can be reviewed.

I get that no automated solution will solve this problem and people misdirect their anger, so thanks a lot for your effort!

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

WelshPixie

meanwhile #WelshPixie is self-circlejerking like we all know her

Clearly ignoring that NOONE wants to use an instance that is run by a bully and thus mostly defederated!


Actually no…

It's just that NOONE wants to sign up with mastodon.art due to being run by a person who prefers to 'choose to die on a hill' with a transmisogynist asshole and the entire #Fediverse outside your bubble decided to #quarantine both of you and your followers due to you literally bullying instances into following your demands or get defederated

  • Your words and actions have mostly harmed #artists and the #Fediverse due to the misguided recommendation of mastodon.art by joinmastodon.org (back then) and subsequent fact that many moved to #ShitSky instead…

YOU as an Admin failed - by allying with an unhinged egoist with Messiah Complex!

#TheBadSpace #WelshPixie #Ro

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

Thanks for this whole thread. Hopefully github.com/mastodon/mastodon/p… will be made into a release soon, and that will mitigate the problem a bit, at least with regard to the the obvious troll kiddies.
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

are you still married to the idea of growth for the sake of growth?

I'm not on the fedi because it's the biggest social network. I'm here for the quality of interactions. I'm here because I don't have to deal with nazi trolls on a daily basis.

If people want to become part of this community, they can wait a few hours or days for their account to be approved.

What people cannot accept, and what keeps turning people away from the fediverse forever time and time again, are the racist bullies on here. And your moderation policies prioritize racist bullies over long-term users who just wanna chill.

reshared this

in reply to schratze

mastodon.social recently allowed a new user with hitler in the name who immediately uploaded a swastika pfp and started harassing people, including posting gifs to induce epileptic seizures.

I sincerely hope you at least do a bare minimum regex rejection on new signups on your instance to prevent things like this from happening again.

Mastodon.social actually got into legal trouble over this because hosting hate symbols like these is illegal in Germany

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

@schratze That friction is essential to keeping Fedi a safe environment for everyone.

The fact that you got 80 reports in minutes just shows that at least 80 people were exposed to vile & unsafe content in minutes. Given that fact, do you really think that a reactive moderation approach can ever keep this platform safe?

The reason people are on Fedi is not because it is the biggest social network. People come here for quality and safety. So please put those things first.

in reply to Misofist

@Misofist @schratze mm your kinda right, except theres also to consider that said quality and or safety should be accessible .. it shouldnt be hard to feel comfortable and whatnot .. having closed registration is somewhat inacessible .. and puts a bit of a barrier to that .. i dont know ...

(i mean i also don't really feel safe on the fediverse too much either, i frequently encounter kinda horrible shit, just a different flavour of it.. i guess.. its better than other centralized sites, but eh, far from quality or safe really.)

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Li ~ Crystal System

@Li @schratze Then just take steps to reduce the friction of the closed signup process. Instead of tasking your moderators with removing hateful content within minutes, task them with approving accounts within minutes.

In fact, you don't even need to mention that your instance has manually-approved-signups. Just let people register as normal, and once they register tell them that their account is pending approval and will be activated soon. (e.g. say "usually within 10 minutes")

in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply

i think you seem to forget to ask yourself why they're leaving corporate mainstream social media.

let me give you a hint.

because bigots and rightwing asswipes run around.

slowing down registrations reduces their numbers significantly.

so mull on that.

or don't! if you like people sending epileptic gifs and have names a la "hitler1488" around, sure! but then we will just isolate you, bc you're a community threat.

This entry was edited (2 months ago)