in reply to Value Subtracted

in reply to Value Subtracted

I managed to avoid any news or leaks, so the regeneration was a shock to me. Pretty sad to see. I was looking forward to another season of more Ncuti.

The episode itself was...fine. Not a huge fan of full on laser gun fights in the show, particularly in the hands of The Doctor, so that was a bit off putting. That said, Poppy was cute af, and it was great to see Jodi again. The lines just before she left were super sweet. And even though I was saddened by the surprise of it, it felt like a proper goodbye for 15, which was nice. Curious to see what happens now. It feels unlikely to me that Billie will be The Doctor, but I don't think I'd hate it if that's the route they take.

Now I just have to forget the show exists as it takes one of its typical, interminably long hiatuses.

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Value Subtracted

I don't think it was very clear if that was a side effect of the genetic bomb, or if it was something else. I may have been a little distracted by the thought that they were making Looms canon, but I would love it if that's where they go with this.

Edit: It might just be a coincidence, but I just realised there may be another link to the Looms. In her Cameo, Jodie's Doctor says there's a "great big time Schism on it's way". That article on the Looms? "devices used by the Great Houses of the Time Lords to perpetuate their race after the Great Schism."

It's probably not going to happen, but I can dream.

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Value Subtracted

Going back over the scene, it's confusing. The Rani says it was the genetic bomb, but earlier she said she'd flipped her DNA to avoid it. She says their species as a whole is infertile ("a biological dead end"), which sounds like she's talking about more than just the two of them. If the genetic bomb was a slow, lingering extinction rather than an instant death, why did she only have a split second to avoid it? Maybe that means that others survived the genetic bomb as well, but the Doctor already knew about the infertility despite not knowing about other survivors. Add to that the Rani's disgust at Mrs Floods comments last week about the new Rani being her child, and the whole thing feels like two different ideas squashed together and not quite fitting.
in reply to dee_dubs

their species as a whole is infertile


So, deep lore dive — in the Wilderness years novels the Time Lords were apparently depicted as infertile after a split in society that essentially exiled a mystical matriarchy that had been in power. IIRC those eventually turned into the Sisterhood of Karn?

But as a result Gallifreyans started reproducing through looms, basically Space Baby Factories. That has gone pretty much disregarded since 2005 when the show returned to the screen, but for some reason RTD seems to have doubled down on it, at least in subtext like the Rani's comment about infertility and, well — "Space babies"?

in reply to Value Subtracted

One thing I find interesting: Billie isn't credited as "the Doctor". Usually the credit for a new doctor goes "And introducing Actor as the doctor".

And I can't figure out why? She is as far as we can tell the next doctor (unless they throw a curveball and she actually is the Valeyard or something) so why not credit her as such?

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Vittelius

This article on the official site does absolutely nothing to clarify the situation.

Speaking of her return, Billie said: “It’s no secret how much I love this show, and I have always said I would love to return to the Whoniverse as I have some of my best memories there, so to be given the opportunity to step back on that TARDIS one more time was just something I couldn’t refuse, but who, how, why and when, you’ll just have to wait and see.”
in reply to ADTJ

[SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING BE WARNED]

Imagine if it was halfway through Chibnall's era and you posted "the next show runner will be Russell T. Davies, and the next Doctor will be David Tennant. His companion will be Donna, and instead of regenerating he splits in two and then just goes and sits in a garden presumably forever. We follow the Doctor who isn't David Tennant, and he regenerates into Billie Piper. Also it will be co produced by Disney."

You'd be legitimately chased off the internet I think lol.

in reply to Value Subtracted

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to SpaceScotsman

in reply to vaguerant

The retcon of Belinda's history also bothered me. It kind of gave me those Moffat-era vibes, where women could go on fun, exciting adventures and all of that but eventually they'd settle down in the wife and/or mother role that represents the person they're really supposed to be. Boo. I didn't think RTD2 would echo Moffat like that and I'm as much disappointed that Ncuti Gatwa only had two seasons as that Varada Sethu is gone after just one.


This bugged me as well. I was very surprised in the last ep and the beginning of this one to see just how protective and loving Doctor and Belinda were being to poppy. But then by the end, only Belinda is the one that seems to care deeply for the child. The doctor is given a chance to make a farewell, but then he just leaves with (as I understood it) the implication that he is never going to come back and that he's been replaced by a human dad. It just confuses me why any of that needed to happen.

in reply to SpaceScotsman

the implication that he is never going to come back and that he’s been replaced by a human dad


I took it more as him knowing he was going to stay away during Poppy's childhood for safety's sake, and that he would have a different face when he returned.

I wanted to add that Thirteen's appearance has really grown on me - I think she's the one incarnation of the Doctor who would be able to drop the sanctimonious "I have to stop you" bullshit so quickly, and help Fifteen instead. The others would have gotten there eventually, but she's the version most equipped to get there so quickly.

in reply to Value Subtracted

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Stormygeddon

I kind of expected Omega to be a big ol' nothingburger, kind of like Rassilon in "The End of Time", so I wasn't disappointed on that front.

There's a lot of potential in Omega, though, and to be honest I don't think any of the stories in which he appears have come anywhere close to taking advantage of it. He's always just a generic madman.

I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about the Poppy stuff - you make some very good points. I do think the Doctor and Belinda were planning on being...non-romantic parents toward the end there, which seemed to make sense to me. But I'm really not sure what to make of the whole thing, on a logical or thematic level. Like I said in my first comment, they did manage to take it from something I had no investment in to something I was actually kind of sad about, so they get some credit there, but...I won't be surprised at all if we learn that there was an earlier version of this story that went in a different direction.

in reply to Value Subtracted

in reply to haverholm

in reply to Value Subtracted

Emotional payoffs — yeah, there needs to be a balance with narrative logic (even when that hinges on the Doctor being a rule-breaking smartass, or his companion suddenly acquiring superpowers) and both "Empire of death" and "Reality war" capsized a bit.

Belinda being Poppy's mum all along — we saw her living in that depressing flatshare in "Robot revolution", though. And why would Mundy Flynn's ancestor be the mother of Captain Poppy's spitting image? I really feel this (and probably the previous) season would have benefited from a good script doctor once-over before going into production...

in reply to Value Subtracted

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to darthelmet

I think this season - finale aside - was the best season in years, but I still think you made some good points.

it feels like the Doctor kind of just stands around listening to exposition a lot more in recent seasons


This was certainly a problem in the last couple of episodes, and Jodie's Doctor did her fair share of that, too. Ncuti's Doctor was also absent a lot in season one ("Dot and Bubble" and "73 Yards" constitute 1/4 of the season!).

in reply to darthelmet

I feel like the RTD2 era doesn't have as many "quiet" moments as RTD1. As an example, in David Tennant's final episode, they'd break up the action with little scenes like this where they'd just let the actors sit there and carry the scene themselves, and I don't really remember there being many of those in the recent finale. I wonder if maybe it's kind of a budget thing, where before they'd have to use CGI and big effects sparingly? In the new era, when they need to, say, have 15 travel from UNIT to where the bad guys are, instead of using that moment to take a breather and have the Doctor talk about the Rani or Omega or the implications of the Wish World or whatever, they just stick him on a CGI space scooter and make everything blow up instead.

It's a good spectacle and makes for higher production value, but I think it comes at the expense of letting the episodes breathe and the characters talk about things. There's no time to really process anything that happens because there's always something happening, if that makes sense.

in reply to Random Dent

I don't know how they do it for Doctor Who, but I remember reading that for Marvel movies they often do work on the CGI scenes before they've even finished the script or hired some of the key talent. It can't be easy to try to stitch together a narratively coherent and emotionally resonant movie when before you begin you've been told which action scenes you need to work into your script.