General rule of thumb: Every time an organization updates their terms of service and/or privacy policy, it is never because they have your best interests at heart.
Specific thoughts on this latest Mozilla action (blog.mozilla.org/en/products/f…)
Setting aside the "worldwide license" bullshit, the privacy policy appears to have broadened both the classes of data Mozilla aims to collect, and the situations in which they collect them.
These are not the actions of an org that cares about your privacy.
Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
We’re introducing a Terms of Use for Firefox for the first time, along with an updated Privacy Notice.Kristina Bravo (The Mozilla Blog)
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Sarah Jamie Lewis
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •reshared this
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Sarah Jamie Lewis
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •There is also the incredibly broad "To comply with applicable laws, and identify and prevent harmful, unauthorized or illegal activity." in which Mozilla states they may gather "all data types" - among the defined types include: searches, browsing data (visited URLS), content and any other data.
In support of nebulously defined "identify and prevent harmful," and in response to law enforcement.
That "learn more about" link just goes to a list of definitions.
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lupus_blackfur
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Pfft...
Bunch of lawyer-speak drivel designed to obfuscate that Mozilla has simply decided they can't ignore the cash they stand to gain from having more and more data to sell.
Joining Google on the ad/data sales evil side.
🤦♀️🤷🫏🤡🖕
Saphkey 🕊️
in reply to lupus_blackfur • • •Baseless speculation. When we hear of them selling users' data, then you can doompost all you want.
Trolling used to take more effort.
🤦♀️🤡🖕
lupus_blackfur
in reply to Saphkey 🕊️ • • •@saphkey
🤣😂🤣😂
Expected response from a bio that specifically expresses "enthusiasm" for Mozilla...
🤷🤷
Saphkey 🕊️
in reply to lupus_blackfur • • •Sarah Jamie Lewis
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •This is far from the start of this journey, Mozilla have been working towards this point for many years.
A creeping corruption that I think has finally taken hold.
They themselves, say it best:
"Although we’ve historically relied on our open source license for Firefox and public commitments to you, we are building in a much different technology landscape today"
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Sarah Jamie Lewis
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •I need a web browser, I need it to be open source. I need it to be secure and maintainable. I need it to work in my best interests.
Firefox is no longer that browser, I'll be working to move off of it. I don't think there is an obvious place to go, yet.
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Ela
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦 reshared this.
My camera shoots fascists
in reply to Ela • • •"What are 'the two words that best describe the current outlook of anyone paying attention?' for $1,000."
Sarah Jamie Lewis
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •For those asking what my current plan is:
I'm going to push forward on migrating my use of more complex web apps to a standalone equivs where available (e.g. mastodon / rss readers)
In the short term, probably tor browser to do more general browsing. I trust that team to be able to strip out most of the bad, and keep the rest generally locked down.
Long term: It's time to really commit to building something better.
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aproitz
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •You need at least, a #Minimum of #Trustworthyness to hope, they strip the #bad Parts out of #Firefox, but you'll never know, if there's a #ZeroDayExploit out in the Wilderness.
This rules for EVERY Browser.
Sarah Jamie Lewis
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Now trying out Tuba on Linux as a local mastodon client. A few rough edges to get it up and running (that I mostly attribute to my not-at-all standard linux setup)
But I think this could work...
Joakim Fors
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Greg
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •If you need UX design, prototyping and user research, give me a shout. Even if you just want to bat some ideas about.
( micro cv: since 1996, IBM usability & design on distributed & mainframe and Linux at home + home built IoT. Enterprise Design Thinking trainer & workshop facilitator)
1337
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦 reshared this.
Eric Gerlach
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Mozilla's decline and adoption of the tech broligarch thinking is such a sad story. We need exactly the opposite of the current tech world.
Proton is probably the closest thing to what Mozilla Corporation could have been. But even that is highly imperfect.
I'm just so tired… all of the time.
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bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to Eric Gerlach • • •@egerlach hmyep.. the Proton CEO was recently rooting for the fascists in the US, so even that has gone sour.
man, the state of the world right now.
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Marion Grau
in reply to bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵 • • •bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to Marion Grau • • •@marion_grau @egerlach archived tweet: archive.ph/txuJ2 (andy yen == proton ceo)
huh, I was gonna link some reddit threads, but they have mostly been deleted. figures. also it seems the most critical comments are gone now, so it's not much use.
the guy himself also posted some responses to reddit, one under his own name, and one as "team proton" or something; but I kinda don't want to link to them if all the critical user responses to them are gone. but you can google them if you want I guess.
I felt his responses were "anti-excuses" of the type "I'm sorry you misunderstood my tweet", and felt more like he was doubling down on his opinion.
anyway, make of the tweet what you will 😀
🔗 David Sommerseth
in reply to bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵 • • •@bazkie @marion_grau @egerlach
Please give this one a good read .... medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-pr…
Redditors managed to create a flamefest based on unbiased views on poorly understood topics, which went out of control when Proton PR folks didn't manage to clear up the confusion (something they're known to be quite capable of - making it way worse). Such flamefests are not that unexpected ob Reddit these days. We can hopefully do better here without going fully Reddit hyperbolic.
bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to 🔗 David Sommerseth • • •@dazo @marion_grau @egerlach I read the CEO's toots, and his 2 horrible responses to the criticisms. If you find my loathing at that hyperbolic, I'm gonna mute and block your ass.
So, I'm gonna mute and block your ass 😁
GutterPoetry
in reply to bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵 • • •@bazkie @marion_grau @egerlach
I agree with your read on the situation. He said that republicans were looking out for the little guy and better for privacy than the dems. He also said trumps pick had a great track record (false). When called out he doubled down and only apologised for posting his personal views on a company account. I began transitioning from proton immediately.
I will not trust/associate with trump/MAGA supporters, asskissers or apologists.
D K, verycyber
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Tyler Smith
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •> Long term: It's time to really commit to building something better.
How does that happen? Mozilla used to be the answer to that, but it sounds like now we need a community/cooperative foundation supporting a hard fork of Firefox.
Is this something non-technical folks can contribute to, or do we wait and hope someone with know-how and resources kicks it off?
Tyler Smith
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •> migrating my use of more complex web apps to a standalone equivs where available
That makes sense, but runs contrary to advice from @pluralistic to consider stand-alone apps to be webpages wrapped in DRM. Or is that risk mitigated by using FLOSS apps, I hope?
PuercoPop
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •DasSchaf
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •ViktorShahter
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •I think some degoogled Chromium builds are not a bad choice.
Also, there's Waterfox tho I heard it was bought, Idk, need to check it out.
Tetrafester
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Sarah Jamie Lewis
in reply to Tetrafester • • •Tetrafester
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •andy
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •aproitz
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Remember the #RollingStones:
You can't always get, what You want -
but if You try sometimes,
You get what You need.
Use #Opera - it's good !
Unimaginable, what Work and Money it would cost, to maintain a complete Open Source Browser. Ask the #Debian #Community, for #Example, why they will not develop one. You can see a bit in the #Tor - Browser, what it takes to achieve this. It's #Firefox too, but it's the best, you can get so far. Or use #Lynx, a #Text Browser.
Elon Muksis 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 🇪🇺
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Vivaldi Browser | Powerful, Personal and Private web browser
Vivaldi TechnologiesJames C
in reply to Elon Muksis 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 🇪🇺 • • •@bhasic I’ve tentatively started using #vivaldi at home and so far so good.
I’m just waiting for someone to tell me that the dev team is lead by a Nazi or that the board is stacked with MAGA techbros
Xael
in reply to Elon Muksis 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 🇪🇺 • • •Vivaldi engine is Chromium, which cause other problems with Google hegemony on web specifications.
Mauve 👁💜
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •PunnO)))
in reply to Mauve 👁💜 • • •@mauve Using any Chromium-based browser gives Google leverage to dictate how the web works, which they should not have, because they cannot be trusted.
Chrome is the new IE6.
Mauve 👁💜
in reply to PunnO))) • • •PunnO)))
in reply to Mauve 👁💜 • • •@mauve I use LibreWolf. It's a Firefox fork, so if a site works in FF, it should work in LW, though may need some minor tweaking, as LW ships with stricter defaults. It works for substantially all sites for me.
Me using a non-Chrome browser doesn't put pressure on Google, nor do I think they'd be responsive if it did.
There are two problems here. If we're talking pressure, web developers are who need it, because when one rendering engine has the dominant marketshare that Blink does, they can ignore the others without much consequence (to them). That's a barrier to switching. Same story as IE in the naughts, we know this already.
The second problem is having a browser you can switch to. Any Firefox fork is a short-term bandaid over the gaping wound of Mozilla's poor stewardship, which will only continue to worsen; if Mozilla goes away, or gets bought by ghouls, or continues becoming ghouls themselves, those can't continue independently. And the web is so complex now t
... Show more...@mauve I use LibreWolf. It's a Firefox fork, so if a site works in FF, it should work in LW, though may need some minor tweaking, as LW ships with stricter defaults. It works for substantially all sites for me.
Me using a non-Chrome browser doesn't put pressure on Google, nor do I think they'd be responsive if it did.
There are two problems here. If we're talking pressure, web developers are who need it, because when one rendering engine has the dominant marketshare that Blink does, they can ignore the others without much consequence (to them). That's a barrier to switching. Same story as IE in the naughts, we know this already.
The second problem is having a browser you can switch to. Any Firefox fork is a short-term bandaid over the gaping wound of Mozilla's poor stewardship, which will only continue to worsen; if Mozilla goes away, or gets bought by ghouls, or continues becoming ghouls themselves, those can't continue independently. And the web is so complex now that it's its own barrier to entry.
I don't know what to do about that. Probably the likeliest outcome is that we admit the corpos won, they colonized the web, and it's time to start rethinking this stuff from the ground up.
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Mauve 👁💜
in reply to PunnO))) • • •@ieure Yeah LibreWolf is a great option tbh. Is there a mobile equivalent?
I think Dev pressure is really not enough. I can't even do calls in slack in Firefox even though it has a decent WebRTC impl. I think a lot of it is lazyness tbh. But how can I pressure slack? I just have to open chrome for work. I'm glad there's at least degoogled forks even if they die off periodically.
Have you tried out ladybird? ladybird.org/
Ladybird
ladybird.orgyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦
in reply to Mauve 👁💜 • • •❝ Yeah LibreWolf is a great option tbh. Is there a mobile equivalent?
yes.
in #Android it’s not Fennec but ICERAVEN, but you have to use the FFUpdater app to have access to it:
f-droid.org/packages/de.marmar…
the app is brilliant in that it’s a one stop place for most official versions and unofficial forks of Firefox but also for the Chrome/Chromium forks.
i use Iceraven primarily and am happy with it.
@mauve @ieure @sarahjamielewis
FFUpdater | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository
f-droid.orgPunnO)))
in reply to Mauve 👁💜 • • •@mauve LW doesn't have an Android version. I use Fennec, which is similar.
I'm aware of Ladybird, but the lead dev seems like a real shithead. Heard about this basically the day after I heard of Ladybird:
github.com/SerenityOS/serenity…
He's also an active blue-check Twitter user. Guy's out there telling everyone who he is.
Gender neutral language within build instructions by Tunas1337 · Pull Request #6814 · SerenityOS/serenity
GitHubNelson
in reply to PunnO))) • • •@ieure @mauve It's a long-running pattern of behavior that has gotten worse lately, either emboldened as other tech figures come out as fascist without consequences, or falling further down some fascist internet rabbit hole (or both).
The lead Ladybird dev is now essentially endorsing white replacement theory: corteximplant.net/objects/f2d3…
@ieure @mauve It's a long-running pattern of behavior that has gotten worse lately, either emboldened as other tech figures come out as fascist without consequences, or falling further down some fascist internet rabbit hole (or both).
The lead Ladybird dev is now essentially endorsing white replacement theory: corteximplant.net/objects/f2d3…
violently gay
2025-01-02 11:32:18
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your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦
in reply to Nelson • • •Justine Smithies
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •0x4d6165 (Julie or Mae)
in reply to Justine Smithies • • •Justine Smithies
in reply to 0x4d6165 (Julie or Mae) • • •Simon Zerafa
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Would any of the Firefox derived alternates work for you?
LibreWolf or PaleMoon seem to be getting more popular 🙂
Trit’
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Did you heard about Floorp? It’s a Japanese fork with supplementary functions and some privacy enforced options. Explicitly inspired by Vivaldi, but built upon Firefox ESR (and soon upon the regular Firefox).
Perhaps you could give it a try?
EDIT: OK, I read your other post and some others about the new “Terms of Use”. Ooof… Mozilla, why do you want to ensh×ttify yourself, too? 😢
waffles
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Jackie 🍉🏳️⚧️☭
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •bitterhalt
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •KnittingMittens (She/Her)
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •riquisimo
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •yeah, it seems they're moving in a direction that I don't want to follow.
They're still the best choice in the big players, but if a better alternative appears I'll be happy to try migrating.
software_libero_e_dintorni
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Abrowser is the default web browser for Trisquel, Trisquel Mini and Triskel.
trisquel.info/en/wiki/abrowser…
Trisquel it is Ubuntu deblobbed, and it is privacy focused and 100% free as in freedom.
No proprietary crap in that OS.
abrowser-help | Trisquel GNU/Linux - Run free!
trisquel.infoNicolas Borboën
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event…
Ladybird
ladybird.orgSjoerd Aalbers 🇪🇺🇾🇪🇺🇦
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Pait
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Let us know what you find. My current approach is to use several browsers, including Duck, Firefox, and commercial ones.
So each one of them doesn't really know what I'm doing.
aburtch
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •90s Script Kiddie
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •This project might be worth paying attention to:
github.com/LadybirdBrowser/lad…
GitHub - LadybirdBrowser/ladybird: Truly independent web browser
GitHubsqrt(-1)
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •I suggest LibreWolf on desktop [1], and IronFox on Android
[2]1- librewolf.net/
2- ironfoxoss.org/
LibreWolf Browser
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LillyLyle/Count Melancholia
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •The greenest browser on Earth
www.ecosia.orgThibaultmol 🌈
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •@zenbrowser
Actually doing innovative things. And still open source.
See their website for info:
zen-browser.app/
Zen Browser
Zen Browsernounoursfaisdeschoses
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Am I?
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
in reply to Am I? • • •Given @ami literally @ mentioned me in, sure, I'll add my bit.
I NEVER claimed, #Verso is ready to compete with products from #Ad / #AI corps eg. #Google / #Mozilla. With both sinking into #enshittification though, arguing over which has the least awful browser matters less than building better alternatives NOW.
My suggestion is supporting a non-profit group, making a #FOSS browser (Verso) based on a fast FOSS engine (@servo) to get it ready ASAP.
What's your suggestion Ami?
KarlE
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •To me, librewolf.net sounds most promising. They explain in detail what they modify and why. It will be an adjustment for me because I use NoScript so far, not UBO.
ondrase
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Sensitive content
Avi Rappoport (avirr)
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Morgan ⚧️
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Sensitive content
Jez 🍞🌹
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Wren 🐁
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Krampus 🌰
in reply to Wren 🐁 • • •Abdur-Rahman Mansoor
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Leeloo
Unknown parent • • •large kira model
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Jennifer
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Sharon Raines
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Fábio Pereira ✌🏼 🇵🇹
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Or they will be crossing a red line.
Waiting for Proton to give us a web browser.
2N2222
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Bodling
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •I've noticed that these firms always mention that they'll share my data only with their trusted [and un-named] partners, but NOT with my partners.
(edit: put in key word NOT)
Saphkey 🕊️
Unknown parent • • •Do you have any complaints
Saphkey 🕊️
Unknown parent • • •@argv_minus_one @lupus_blackfur
you clearly have misunderstood what that meant.
Firefox is a web browser.. it is part of the traffic. It sends the data, it receives the data. How would Firefox work if it didnt decrypt the HTTPS data of this mastodon website??
It just states that when you type text into mastodon via Firefox and click Post, you give Firefox permission to do your INDICATED action. That action being posting the text to mastodon.
"When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a [...] license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content AS YOU INDICATE with your use of Firefox."
If you didnt INDICATE for Firefox to intercept that information and send it to Mozilla, then they wont, and you haven't given them the permission to do so.
Idk how more TLDR to make it for u
Fahri Reza 🍉
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •André-LA 🎀 gamedev
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •that sucks, but not surprising.
I may keep using Firefox though, but never donating again or engaging.
My hopes goes to Servo, an actual FOSS alternative for blink.
No hopes for Ladybird either btw, that's a full for profit thing.
Saphkey 🕊️
Unknown parent • • •@argv_minus_one @lupus_blackfur
Ill agree that US probably means Mozilla.
But I still hold that "as you indicate" is meaningfull.
I think that one important thing here is that Firefox is no longer just a browser. "Firefox" includes a bunch of different Mozilla services that you have access to via it. That being for example its VPN service via Mullvad, Firefox sync account etc.
And all these services complicates things beyond being just a piece of standalone software.
Justin
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •for anyone who likes FF but has grown to distrust Mozilla you might be interested in librewolf.net
De-Mozilla'd Firefox if you will.
I use it on my laptop and its actually a much better experience due to my usage of Debian and Firefox ESR which has caused site issues in the past for me.
LibreWolf Browser
librewolf.netbazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
Unknown parent • • •@kelseying well..
time to get off of the internet. *switches the internet off*
JavAlps
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Voline
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Has anyone run these new T&Cs past an EU Data Commissioner?
Funny if Firefox had to be pulled from Europe!
Nelson
Unknown parent • • •@lianna @ieure @mauve Ladybird has separated from the SerenityOS project and the problematic dev is now only working on Ladybird:
ladybird.org/posts/fork/
That said, SerenityOS culture may have been negatively affected by the attitudes of their former BDFL, who considered pronouns too political but not a Pepe the Frog icon. It may take time and effort to fully heal the community.
Ladybird forks from SerenityOS
ladybird.orgQuantum
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •ohmrun
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •Morgan ⚧️
in reply to bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵 • • •bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to Morgan ⚧️ • • •Waterfox
in reply to Sarah Jamie Lewis • • •A Comment on Mozilla's Policy Changes
Waterfox