Why is it so hard to get friends to leave Discord, WhatsApp, Instagram, and others? Anyone else feel this?
I’ve been seeing this more and more in comments, and it’s got me wondering just how big this issue really is. A lot of people feel trapped in apps like Discord, WhatsApp, and Instagram, but can’t get their friends to leave.
It’s really annoying when you suggest trying something new, whether it’s a different app or just not using these platforms so much but sometimes it can feel like no one wants to go first.
So I’m curious, what apps do you feel most trapped in? And have you tried convincing your friends to leave them? What happened? Is it an issue for you, or are you just going along with the flow?
Looking forward to hearing if this is as common as it feels!
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Triasha
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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Zak
in reply to Triasha • • •I've heard this from a few people, but I have trouble understanding it. Perhaps its because I've never had the experience of being able to send text messages to all of my contacts in one place, but the effort required seems pretty insignificant to me.
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Triasha
in reply to Zak • • •shortwavesurfer
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Omer
in reply to Autonomous User • • •It's Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp for me. I ditched the Facebook app a long time ago, but Messenger and Whatsapp remain on my device because no one wants to leave them. I try to keep my chats there as superficial as possible.
Also, this is my first comment ever on Lemmy, so hi everyone!
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pelespirit
in reply to Omer • • •like this
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Omer
in reply to pelespirit • • •like this
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Pringles
in reply to Omer • • •like this
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St3alth
in reply to Omer • • •Zombie
in reply to Omer • • •No one wants to leave because nobody is leaving.
You're still on WhatsApp and Messenger, they can still contact you that way, so why would they bother changing?
Pick a date, a week, a month, whatever, from now. Tell those you message regularly that you will be deleting all Meta apps on that date. Make it clear that that includes WhatsApp and Messenger. Explain why. I just linked some articles instead of having a long explanation but it still made it clear why.
Let them know they can contact you via Signal/SMS/email whatever you use after that date.
If the informed don't take the leap, the ignorant never will.
Resonosity
in reply to Omer • • •Welcome!
Some tips:
- You can block other users, other communities, and other instances yourself; you don't have to wait for the mods or admins to do that for you
- If a mod or an admin of an instance choose to block certain things that you disagree with, you can sign up for another instance with your same name, assuming nobody's taken it; you won't be able to transfer your comments, votes, or posts though; there's been feedback given to the Lemmy devs about this
- Search by Everything and Active to see new posts show up in your feed daily
- There's lots of diverse opinions on Lemmy, but they tend to concentrate around politics and tech; maybe consider starting your own community or instance if there's something here you want to see!
- To use the Discord analogy, Lemmy instances are Discord communities, Lemmy communities are Discord channels, and users are just users; we'll often write c/Whatever to refer to a community, but due to the Federated nature of Lemmy, you may find a community like c/Politics on multiple instances (like lemmy.world
... Show more...Welcome!
Some tips:
HailSeitan
in reply to Autonomous User • • •How to Leave Dying Social Media Platforms – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow
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m-p{3}
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Network effect and the path of least resistance.
People usually resist change until there's a net and obvious gain, or when thing don't work as expected anymore.
And you need to consider that what's important in a messaging platform for someone, might be vastly different for another.
Goldmaster
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Networking effect
People use whatever is most popular even if its the shittest thing such as Facebook.
Only time people will care is when it personally and tangibly affects them.
For Facebook/whatsapp watomatic can be used to remind people you are leaving or such.
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webhead
in reply to Goldmaster • • •sic_semper_tyrannis
in reply to Autonomous User • • •The inconvenience of switching and learning a new thing is the largest deterrent. People complain but don't care enough due to those reasons to switch.
I only text people on Signal, except the old grandparents or potential new friends that I will in time get to switch to Signal.
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mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to sic_semper_tyrannis • • •Honestly, oftentimes it's not evem that, it's the perception of learning being difficult.
I have some friends decided to pay hundreds of dollars to hire a plumber for something pretty simple to fix. As in, it'd take $50 and an hour once you factor in learning and practice runs. And they're always complaining about not having money, yet they got mad when I told them how easy it was
BCsven
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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Zak
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Asking people to leave things means they're losing a line of communication to friends, family, and interest groups who still use those things. It's probably more productive to ask people to add the services you prefer rather than leave the ones they're used to.
I've encountered some resistance from Americans who use iPhones and hate the idea of adding a third-party messaging app. None of them seem very interested in justifying that position.
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TimLovesTech
in reply to Zak • • •economic & psychological costs of switching from one alternative to another
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Zak
in reply to TimLovesTech • • •TimLovesTech
in reply to Zak • • •The having to do something is the cost, because they have a perfectly good messaging app already, "why can't you just use that?"
And that cost is more on Apple's platform because Apple has been designing it that way since the beginning. It's the whole reason android users got a different color bubble, not because they had to, but it was a way to identify the person that wasn't using an iPhone and make them stand out. Making it almost unimaginable to switch to Android for youth who care so much about not being "out" of the group.
And Google has identified this, and put a lot of cringe-worthy effort into addressing it at their Pixel event this time around.
Zak
in reply to TimLovesTech • • •Only running on one brand of phone would be the obvious reason here. Installing an additional app seems like a slightly smaller ask than buying a different phone.
Endymion_Mallorn
in reply to TimLovesTech • • •Zak
in reply to Endymion_Mallorn • • •Is the advantage availability among your contacts, or something about the UX?
Endymion_Mallorn
in reply to Zak • • •Holistically it's UX.
If my wife or others in my life who use Apple want to contact me, they don't have to go into a specific app and hope that I'm looking at it. They can go into iMessage, click the camera, and poof, a video call starts up. The only software I use that does that otherwise is Discord, and that's not integrated with SMS/MMS. It's the connection too (which is just as much part of UX) - I've had problems with Zoom or others due to connection strength, but not with FaceTime.
The fact that it's a "just-works" solution is important.
Zak
in reply to Endymion_Mallorn • • •Do the others not ring your phone? I don't video call often, but when I do it's usually with Signal, and that definitely rings my phone.
Endymion_Mallorn
in reply to Zak • • •Zak
in reply to Endymion_Mallorn • • •like this
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Luke
in reply to Endymion_Mallorn • • •Literally all of that UX is the same and better in other apps though.
For example, every single part of your description applies to video and text conversations with my SO and friends, except we all use Signal. It "just works", and better than Facetime because it doesn't matter what device my SO and friends have.
With Facetime it doesn't "just work" at all with the large number of people I know who don't have Apple. That's a huge disadvantage which means that Facetime UX sucks.
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Ulrich
in reply to Luke • • •like this
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Luke
in reply to Ulrich • • •Endymion_Mallorn likes this.
Ulrich
in reply to Luke • • •Endymion_Mallorn likes this.
Luke
in reply to Ulrich • • •I'm interpreting the term in the way it's defined according to Wikipedia:
Facetime being intentionally limited to a single platform absolutely negatively impacts it's UX by reducing utility, ease of use, and efficiency.
person's behaviors, attitudes, and emotions about using a particular product, system or service
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Ulrich
in reply to Endymion_Mallorn • • •You can do the exact same thing with any of hundreds of different messaging apps. The only advantage is that they're using the same messaging app, because it comes installed by default, you can't remove it, and they don't allow you to replace SMS with anything else. If you use an Android phone, it most likely comes with Google Messages pre-installed, which does the exact same thing.
In other words, it's nothing to do with "user experience" and everything to do with being in a particular ecosystem.
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Endymion_Mallorn
in reply to Ulrich • • •Ulrich
in reply to Endymion_Mallorn • • •like this
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Endymion_Mallorn
in reply to Ulrich • • •Ulrich
in reply to TimLovesTech • • •Xanthobilly
in reply to Ulrich • • •Ulrich
in reply to Xanthobilly • • •Very possible this is just latency intentionally introduced by Apple to make the experience worse. They've been known to do things like that.
They also intentionally degrade the quality of video feeds from non-Apple users, and intentionally degrade the quality of received MMS images.
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TimLovesTech
in reply to Ulrich • • •a4ng3l
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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Una
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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Endymion_Mallorn
in reply to Autonomous User • • •These are just opinions, but here are the two I know about (I don't use WhatsApp)
Discord: It's not just you. You would have to get their other connections, all their servers, and all the connections from those servers to switch. Frankly speaking, Revolt isn't ready for that to happen. You are one person. I'm sorry, but if I have 1 friend vs. all of my servers and friends, I'm not going to make a meaningful change for the one person. And tbh I'm more likely to be the one than the many. What I would suggest is to try and put yourself between the two services, help to build the communities you want to see, then invite people over.
Instagram: Same issue as Discord. The fediverse doesn't have the variety of content, the wide range of users, or half the stuff to engage with.
scytale
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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Ulrich
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I mean the reason is usually summed up with a single word when I make the suggestion: "Why?". People don't know and/or don't care. You try and explain it and they mock you and act like you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
... Show more...Geeze, you name it. Right now I need a new job, and if you're not looking on Indeed, you're severely limiting your options. You can't see anything on Indeed without creating an account and turning over ALL of your personal details, much less actually submit an application. Not to mention the site itself is just horrendous to use. If we had some sort of technological standard protocol for submitting resumes ( so you could send them the same way you send contact info via .vcf), or even OCR that actually worked, it could be a lot easier, but we don't, so the alternative is going and typing in all of your information for every individual application, which simply doesn't work when you're submitt
I mean the reason is usually summed up with a single word when I make the suggestion: "Why?". People don't know and/or don't care. You try and explain it and they mock you and act like you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
Geeze, you name it. Right now I need a new job, and if you're not looking on Indeed, you're severely limiting your options. You can't see anything on Indeed without creating an account and turning over ALL of your personal details, much less actually submit an application. Not to mention the site itself is just horrendous to use. If we had some sort of technological standard protocol for submitting resumes ( so you could send them the same way you send contact info via .vcf), or even OCR that actually worked, it could be a lot easier, but we don't, so the alternative is going and typing in all of your information for every individual application, which simply doesn't work when you're submitting a couple dozen every day, on top of their meaningless personality quizzes and chatting endlessly with AI bots, and aptitude tests and video response interviews and and and...
I make a good % of my money for my business using FB and IG. Not through ads but just through networking. Although I'm about to close my doors (due to unrelated market circumstances), at which point I'll delete them. But then I will mostly lose access to all of the events that are shared exclusively on these platforms. I ask them to share them elsewhere but it's more of the same, mocking and asking why.
When it comes to open source, Discord and Reddit seem to be the platforms of choice. Usually this means I simply ignore otherwise-promising projects.
Fortunately almost no one has ever asked me to use WhatsApp. Usually only international travelers. I usually just decline and/or ask them to use Signal.
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PowerCrazy
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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Jumbie
in reply to PowerCrazy • • •The downvotes around anything suggesting iMessages is always ridiculous to me.
It really is the safest app I know for messaging. Is there some privacy issue of which I’m unaware?
Autonomous User
in reply to Jumbie • • •The answer is very simple: iMessage fails to include a libre software license text file, which is the standard that ensures we can maintain control over the software we use. Without this, we’re banned from forking the app, meaning we’re unable to ensure it stays aligned with our privacy values. We need the freedom to fork the software to ensure it meets our needs, not just rely on buzzwords like encryption or P2P.
Without the ability to fork the code, we’re trapped in every decision of its owner. Non-libre software bans us from maintaining the control needed to ensure it meets our privacy standards.
PowerCrazy
in reply to Autonomous User • • •While in the ideal world a non-opensource app would be a deal breaker, in the current world, there is no indication that imessage has any privacy concerns associated with it. It's not just taking Apple at their word, there have been a lot practical analysis of how the protocol works. Plus the underlying cryptography is sound.
security.apple.com/assets/file… <- hosted by Apple.
douglas.stebila.ca/blog/archiv… <-original author
usenix.org/system/files/confer… <- Independent analysis of the protocol and implementation.
Sure you could claim that actually Apple is lying about how they are securing imessage, but that is a lot of effort when they could just take the Facebook approach and straight up admit that they have the ability to read your texts, much easier, and safer legally.
Security analysis of Apple's iMessage PQ3 protocol • Douglas Stebila
www.douglas.stebila.caAutonomous User
in reply to PowerCrazy • • •I never once wrote 'open source'. I was never writing about that.
Moreover, iMessage requires iOS or similar. Any operating system, iOS, has complete control over its apps, iMessage. iOS fails to include a libre software license text file.
The dangers of this are explained above.
lemmy.world/comment/19262111
Autonomous User
I never once wrote 'open source'. I was never writing about that.
Moreover, iMessage requires iOS or similar. Any operating system, iOS, has complete control over its apps, iMessage. iOS fails to include a libre software license text file.
The dangers of this are explained above.
lemmy.world/comment/19262111
Autonomous User
2025-09-07 21:17:12
PowerCrazy
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Autonomous User
in reply to PowerCrazy • • •Jumbie
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I am no tech pioneer so a lot of these phrases mean nothing to me. That doesn’t mean I can’t learn, however.
I’m curious, which specific messaging app allows any of what you’ve listed?
Autonomous User
in reply to Jumbie • • •azuth
in reply to PowerCrazy • • •PowerCrazy
in reply to azuth • • •azuth
in reply to PowerCrazy • • •If it does not require an iPhone yes, side loading is just a few taps away.
But what is this mythical app that needs side loading? There's matrix apps even on Apple's app store.
Nighed
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Partially, it's because the incumbent platforms are just much better.... Discord is really good.
I have got some people to move to signal though. I don't touch Facebook messenger.
Luke
Unknown parent • • •It was definitely on purpose, because privacy is more important to Signal than line-go-up adoption number statistics.
SMS is dangerous and insecure and everyone should stop using it immediately.
FBI and CISA Warn Your Texts Aren’t Safe
Laura Suarez (Fordham University Information Security and Assurance)Hellfire103
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Yeah, this is so fucking annoying. I've been banging on about Signal for years, but everyone except a small handful of my wisest friends insist upon using WhatsApp and Discord.
Almost everyone I know also uses Instagram, and no other social media. I am yet to meet someone in real life who even has Mastodon.
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ScoffingLizard
in reply to Hellfire103 • • •irmadlad
in reply to Autonomous User • • •hornedfiend
in reply to irmadlad • • •NauticalNoodle
in reply to hornedfiend • • •irmadlad
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •irmadlad
in reply to hornedfiend • • •/home/pineapplelover
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Discord is a hard one because it has some uniqueness to it.
It has bots, text channels, voice channels, and hundreds of thousands of people can join it if you need to.
A lot of my college clubs use it and there are a few thousand students in our biggest ones
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FauxLiving
in reply to /home/pineapplelover • • •It's not unique, it's just XMPP + Mumble.
I used to play with a large community and every time a new game would come out we'd always setup forum software, an XMPP (chat software) server and a Mumble server for that game. This was pretty easy to get done because we were all working in tech, but if you were an average gamer it wasn't something that you could handle.
Discord packaged the text, voice and forum software into one application and they handle the server hosting. It only costs all of your privacy and $10/mo.
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/home/pineapplelover
in reply to FauxLiving • • •eldavi
in reply to FauxLiving • • •beetus
in reply to FauxLiving • • •You say it's not unique and then list the ways it's unique by packaging up multiple different services into 1.
Totally agree it's a privacy nightmare but you discredit the service too much. There's a reason it's widely adopted the way it is, and it's not because it's the same as everything else.
FauxLiving
in reply to beetus • • •It isn't unique, it provides text, voice and video chatting. These are not new services to the world of technology.
What makes Discord stand apart is that they require that your chats, calls and streams are not private and, in exchange for people giving up their private data the users only have to install one piece of software instead of two. It is like a company giving people a 'free' phone as long as they or their advertisers can listen into the calls, read the texts and look at the videos on the phone.
The only thing that Discord does is to package the software in such a way that you can't access it until you give them information about you and then they gate features behind you identifying yourself with a credit card and a phone number.
Tyra
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Jumuta
in reply to Tyra • • •sexybenfranklin
in reply to Jumuta • • •isn't that the main reason to use it though, privacy?
Jumuta
in reply to sexybenfranklin • • •imo the biggest appeal is decentralisation and non corporate ownership, ofc the matrix people are trying their best to do e2ee and whatnot but iirc media isn't encrypted e2e and it's inferior to signal or whatever
also for a large fraction of discord's usage (large open access guilds) encryption doesn't mean anything
ScoffingLizard
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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drspawndisaster
in reply to ScoffingLizard • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to drspawndisaster • • •airikr
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I have the same issue, but got 2 Discord users to try Jitsi Meet with me (a friend of mine on my Snikket server invited her friend). After a while, her friend asked me why it looked so much alike Discord and my friend agreed. I gave them a big smile and said, "because this is awesome".
Jitsi Meet + Snikket has been my saves since I deleted my Discord account during the pandemic.
Zeon
in reply to airikr • • •I loved Jitsi too, though, the call quality was a bit low quality when I used it previously (browser version I believe). The only problem with Jitsi, is how do you set up a server?
For example, Professer Messer has a Discord server, but a lot of people use the chat rooms for conversations, and there a lot of other study sessions taking place in different voice channels. I really wonder what the other alternative to Discord is. Mumble won't do since I don't think it has the ability to screen share.
airikr
in reply to Zeon • • •I find the quality very good. And there's no problems with setup a "server" 😀
Once inside and as a moderator, you can create so called breakout rooms. These works just like subchannels in Discord. If you're many people in 1 call, you can create these to create a more calmer experience. I have personally not tried these out since I have only talked to 1-2 people.
Mumble is a excellent VoIP software, but like you said, screen sharing is not possible since Mumble is just what VoIP means: voice over IP.
sudoer777
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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MangoPenguin
in reply to Autonomous User • • •like this
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procapra
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I less have an issue with people getting trapped in software they understand is insecure, and more with people who will push shit like telegram and pretend its the most private and secure thing ever invented. If they want to use discord, sure, fine with me. As long as they know not to do their activist work on discord I'm fine with it. People doing activist work/planning over telegram will never make me not cringe.
Signal isn't something I personally want to use, but its tolerable, and it was doing a good job of replacing telegram in activist spaces I felt, but I've recently seen a few different groups using telegram again because they don't trust signal.
xmpp with omemo is what I wish I could get people to use but uh, well, that just will never happen.
Zeon
in reply to procapra • • •How do you set up XMPP with OMEMO as anonymously as possible? My friend and I would love to video call each other, currently we're using SimpleX for this, but it's very buggy. We use Molly for calling and SimpleX for texting, both of us are switching to using Libreboot laptops with QubesOS to communicate 😀
I love teaching my friend privacy. He's really gotten into it, I've done a good job making him just as paranoid as I am!
procapra
in reply to Zeon • • •bradboimler
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I can't control my contacts. I can control what I do. I was personally getting annoyed enough with Discord that I uninstalled the thing and stopped visiting it on the web. My account still exists AFAIK. I didn't make a big production of it nor tell anyone; I simply left.
It was a bit of a sacrifice because I don't connect with an extremely rewarding community on there as much anymore. Thankfully they still host IRL meetups and I do go to those.
I'm opinionated about messaging apps but I don't try to convince anyone. Well, other than siblings and SOs. People who want to talk to me can find me on the apps I do hang out in. If they ask why I'm not on the big ones I will gladly tell them. But where they end up is their decision, not mine.
Gooey0210
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Scolding7300
in reply to Autonomous User • • •- YouTube
www.youtube.commat
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I'm personally trapped on Discord and Instagram.
Discord is required by my workplace, so no way of getting rid of it until everyone decides to move to something better. I have some friends on it too, but most of them also made Matrix accounts when I explained I won't be very reachable on Discord (I only open it when necessary; and it doesn'r run on my phone since they rewrote the app in JS).
I have Instagram as a way to people I meet during travel or events to "add me" easily, and then we can figure out a good way to communicate afterward. I'm not too bothered by having it as I don't use it daily or anything.
littleguy
in reply to mat • • •You could at least move to Pixelfed.
I doubt your instagram following is enough to make a difference from what you'd get on Pixelfed.
mrdown
in reply to littleguy • • •littleguy
in reply to mrdown • • •Good point. The "follower" mentality is still a foreign concept to me.
I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my head around what goes through the average instagram user's mind. I forget that a lot of them are eager to follow instead of lead.
mat
in reply to littleguy • • •It seems I didn't communicate my reason for having Instagram well enough. I don't have access to the "feed" or following people (it won't load unless I accept some terms, which I won't). I have an account with the messaging function bridged to my Matrix account, which lets me receive messages and (when it works) reply to them to organize moving to a better platform.
It's the best solution I found if I want to keep contact with people I meet when going out or traveling. Phone numbers barely work (I still can't call or message any German numbers, never found out why), and everyone I meet has Instagram. I just give them my username, they can add me easily, and then later over Instagram direct messages we figure out how to get them signed up for Matrix or Signal.
Ardens
in reply to Autonomous User • • •It's hard - give them a compelling reason to leave. I use Telegram, Signal, Discord and Session... Discord is rarely used - I use Telegram and Signal the most. Session is quite new.
But what we need is for someone like Mozilla to make a messaging app - someone with the users best interest at the heart, and who don't share anything with anyone else... And at a reasonable price... Privacy isn't free - if anyone should be in doubt.
Paulemeister
in reply to Ardens • • •bobzer
in reply to Paulemeister • • •Ardens
in reply to bobzer • • •bobzer
in reply to Ardens • • •Durov is an absolute scumbag though. Russian Elon Musk.
Telegram shouldnt even be in the conversation when there are alternatives like Signal.
Ardens
in reply to bobzer • • •Oh, do please worship Signal!
github.com/signalapp/Signal-An…
Huawei engineer exposed SIGNAL has CIA backdoor --- Please do not use SIGNAL has been subverted
futurewei737 (GitHub)Ardens
in reply to Paulemeister • • •Well... I don't trust any companies that works for money - and that's all of them. Now I'm not in some group trying to overthrow the system, so I don't feel so vulnerable - but if I were, I wouldn't be using any app, on any phone.
Telegram is not 100 % safe, and you have to enable encryption too, if you want it. But is Signal safe? Google? Any other app? There's some that feel safer than others - and you have to come to terms with how safe you want to be. If you want to be as safe as possible, you have to do the encryption yourself, on a system that's not connected to the internet, before sending it to someone who can decrypt it themselves on a system not connected. Or you have to use pen and paper, and deliver it yourself - or just meet people and talk to them - without any devices in your pocket.
If you, like me, just want to be able to communicate with you kids, your friends, family and other loved ones, about trivial things - I think you can feel pretty safe with those I mentioned.
That Telegrams owners are Russian (in exile) doesn't matter to me. USA is the
... Show more...Well... I don't trust any companies that works for money - and that's all of them. Now I'm not in some group trying to overthrow the system, so I don't feel so vulnerable - but if I were, I wouldn't be using any app, on any phone.
Telegram is not 100 % safe, and you have to enable encryption too, if you want it. But is Signal safe? Google? Any other app? There's some that feel safer than others - and you have to come to terms with how safe you want to be. If you want to be as safe as possible, you have to do the encryption yourself, on a system that's not connected to the internet, before sending it to someone who can decrypt it themselves on a system not connected. Or you have to use pen and paper, and deliver it yourself - or just meet people and talk to them - without any devices in your pocket.
If you, like me, just want to be able to communicate with you kids, your friends, family and other loved ones, about trivial things - I think you can feel pretty safe with those I mentioned.
That Telegrams owners are Russian (in exile) doesn't matter to me. USA is the biggest spy and snoop on earth. No one is really much worse than the other. I guess it's more important for some, to argue about who is the worst snoop and privacy invasive company/nation/agency and so forth - instead of criticizing everyone who invades their privacy - even their own government.
Paulemeister
in reply to Ardens • • •Ardens
in reply to Paulemeister • • •lepinkainen
in reply to Paulemeister • • •I’m not using it to plan a coup, I’m using it mostly because it has first class bot support and decent clients.
I’ll look into signal again when they get bots
bobo
in reply to Ardens • • •Ardens
in reply to bobo • • •bobo
in reply to Ardens • • •Hoping for a company to make a chat app
Are we paying for fediverse services? Are there any companies involved?
Matrix is federated, private, and free...
What exactly did I make up? Were you hoping for a company to make a for-profit federated app?
Ardens
in reply to bobo • • •Mozilla is more an organisation than a company. It turns profit to work for the free internet, in a world where companies with billions oppose it. But yeah, I'm sure that this federated (which also means an organisation of a sort) will prevail on it's own. Nice banner you have here - and the following is surely huge! 😉
And feddit du cost money - the cost is just shared by the ones making and maintaining the serves and software. But hey, keep believing it's free...
Matrix is not free. It might be private - who knows for sure? And it's not used by many...
Where did I write "for profit"? Are you really that clueless? A reasonable price, is what it cost to develop and maintain it, and promote it. You know, just like Mozilla does. It's not a "for profit" company, it's an organisation for internet privacy and freedom. So please stop you lies. That's a childish way to try to argue!
bobo
in reply to Ardens • • •There are 2 organizations, the Mozilla foundation and it's subsidiary the Mozilla corporation. The corp is a for-profit entity, they're the ones developing software, and generating revenue (mainly through the Google search deal).
Source? The main opposition to Mozilla are ad agencies, and former employees who think they've abandoned their values (pocket, Google, AI, MDN, etc.). Their main opposition in the browser space has been keeping them afloat for years.
Wtf are you talking about? Learn what the federated part of fediverse means.
Also, love how you're talking shit about federated services on a federated service. You can't make this up.
... Show more...There are 2 organizations, the Mozilla foundation and it's subsidiary the Mozilla corporation. The corp is a for-profit entity, they're the ones developing software, and generating revenue (mainly through the Google search deal).
Source? The main opposition to Mozilla are ad agencies, and former employees who think they've abandoned their values (pocket, Google, AI, MDN, etc.). Their main opposition in the browser space has been keeping them afloat for years.
Wtf are you talking about? Learn what the federated part of fediverse means.
Also, love how you're talking shit about federated services on a federated service. You can't make this up.
No shit hosting cost money, I was specifically talking about the cost to the end user, the same thing as you...
Lmao
Matrix is a FOSS protocol, and there are multiple FOSS apps using that protocol. You can even host it on your own if you want to be absolutely sure nobody can get any possible metadata. You literally can't get more sure than that unless you write it yourself...
Again, the Mozilla corporation is a for-profit entity, and that's why they're able to charge for premium services...
Do a bit of research instead of spouting nonsense, calling names, and throwing tantrums. It's not very mature.
Ardens
in reply to bobo • • •You are funny. Pocket is a core value?!?
I'm talking truth about a federated service on a federated service. Can't you handle that? Are you too fragile for that?
And childish as you are, you assume you know what I'm talking about. That's just a pathetic move! Learn to debate, and stop lying!
bobo
in reply to Ardens • • •I know your reading comprehension, or thinking for that matter, is not so good, but try to take the whole sentence and figure out how those examples fit in.
Don't worry, I can handle laughing at you just fine. You seem to be losing it though.
Holy shit, this must be what talking to Trump is like. You see an argument you don't like, start screaming incoherent nonsense and fake news, mix in a few insults that make you feel superior, and end up thinking you're debating anything.
Ardens
in reply to bobo • • •Bilb!
in reply to bobo • • •You may not be, but many of us are. None of it is free, from development to hosting to administrating. That works okay for now, but might be a limiting factor.
Edit: I also thing community stewardship could work better than it does.
bobo
in reply to Bilb! • • •floopus
in reply to Autonomous User • • •SuperDuperKitten
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Totally get you. It's why I roll my eyes anytime someone say "Be the change you want to see" as if I wasn't trying to and also getting a burntout from doing so. Easier said than done.
Sadly, people are simply just so comfortable with whatever massaging & social media app they used that trying out other alternatives is immediately dismissed as a inconvenient before they even tried it. And also we are so used to corporation taking so many of our data that some are just numbed about it and see it as a losing battle or they don't know how much valuable their information is which you often get the infamous "I got nothing to hide" BS.
I have got few my friends to use Signal when I was about to delete my Instagram. Still in contact with them which is a small victory for me.
littleguy
in reply to SuperDuperKitten • • •Hey man, you're not alone.
I recently made a new email to get away from google and a matrix account to get away from discord. Anyone new I meet will get my matrix contact info. It will take time, but I'm in it for the long haul.
Bilb!
in reply to SuperDuperKitten • • •hexagonwin
in reply to Autonomous User • • •nfreak
in reply to hexagonwin • • •This is a big one. I had no problem ditching the rest and I've been able to slowly get friends and family onto signal. But discord despite its incessant enshittification just has no real alternative. Matrix is the closest thing and it's a clunky, confusing mess.
Plus even if I were to switch, what's the point if the communities I use discord for aren't moving too? They really built a monopoly out of this dogshit app and it's going to be ridiculously difficult to get people to switch to anything else. Hell, look at Twitter - people clung to that shithole for far too long (they still do tbh), and didn't jump ship until bsky came around, which is barely any better. Meanwhile, Mastodon's literally been there the entire time but nope.
littleguy
in reply to hexagonwin • • •Matrix is the logical successor to discord.
We should focus on improving it instead of making something new from scratch.
lepinkainen
in reply to littleguy • • •Only if the people behind Matrix just copied the Discord UX exactly instead of making weird choices nobody can understand
We need a “server” with multiple channels that are easily discoverable for everyone on said server. We also need to be able to gate channels behind roles.
Can it do that?
manuallybreathing
in reply to lepinkainen • • •Pretty sure you could do all that on matrix in 2023, maybe not the gated roles, but you can just make a subgroupchat
you can even this on telegram to an extent
discord delenda est
lepinkainen
in reply to manuallybreathing • • •MangoPenguin
in reply to littleguy • • •rudyharrelson
in reply to MangoPenguin • • •I wouldn't say Matrix needs 1:1 feature parity with Discord in order to be a viable alternative for a lot of users.
My social circle doesn't typically use the entire suite of features in Discord. Text chat, voice chat, video calling, file sharing, and screen sharing cover our usual needs.
hexagonwin
in reply to littleguy • • •I'd love it if it actually worked... it doesn't.
It's extremely buggy. I'd rather use IRC, but the features it lacks isn't ok for most people these days.
sifar
in reply to Autonomous User • • •LoafedBurrito
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Comfort and scared of change. The dopamine these sites give you is close to sex for some people as weird as it sounds. So if you tell them to stop using Instagram, they can't process that and simply say no.
This is just part of human nature. Some of us are able to say "hey this website is run by horrible people and I refuse to support it." We leave and find other options and help them grow. We are in the minority.
Most people simply do not want to try something everyone else doesn't use cause they don't want to seem weird. Stupid societal norms.
geneva_convenience
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Because people keep pushing for them to completely leave a platform.
Instead try to get them to dual-use platforms.
youmaynotknow
in reply to geneva_convenience • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to geneva_convenience • • •twice_hatch
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Even the FOSS apps don't all get along.
Conversations is great for XMPP, and it can act as a UnifiedPush pusher, but AFAICT it doesn't support other protocols and it doesn't act as a UnifiedPush subscriber.
So running 2 chat protocols, one being the well-support app Conversations on the well-supported protocol XMPP, means 2 push setups and 2 apps. Bleh.
I would like to see an architecture where the expensive app side of things is separated from the protocol. But that's all speculative, I haven't put work hours into it. Basically, if I have an idea for P2P chat, why do I need to re-invent emojis and channels and shit like that? I only want to iterate on transport. And if I have a better idea for channels, why would I have to re-invent the transport like XMPP and Matrix?
(The reason is that cutting those two apart is hard - But I will continue to wonder.)
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to twice_hatch • • •littleguy
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I Cast Fist
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Imagine it's the 90s again, everyone has a phone number, but one person will only talk to you via ham radio. Same energy.
For communication, people will prefer what everyone is using, simply because it's easier to reach someone else. Herd behavior. You can try to get them in, but pressure will mean that it'll be you who will have to either give up and cave in to use Discord, Whatsapp, etc, or get removed from the talks for refusing to be where they want to.
I wish I could leave whatsapp, but it's a literal case of "everyone uses it" in Brazil. Even the short, justice mandated wpp blackouts couldn't keep people on telegram for more than 2 days.
mrdown
in reply to Autonomous User • • •lightnsfw
in reply to Autonomous User • • •bridgeenjoyer
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Tech illiteracy is the biggest reason.
These days people dont hardly know what IRC or a router is/does, theyre not going to change to any other application unless its DEAD easy.
Also I despise discord UI and always have. I must just be old, but its sucks and is horribly designed. Now it has built in ads so it really pisses me off. At least most of my friends moved on from Snapchat (literal Spyware).
manuallybreathing
in reply to Autonomous User • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to Autonomous User • • •twice_hatch
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •And it would be easier with good bridges, but of course the big platforms like Twitter, Facebook, etc., refuse to bridge in or out with anything.
You can scrape public Facebook feeds, using paid services, but AFAICT you need a friend on the inside to publish your stuff into Facebook.
I guess that's one reason I shouldn't complain about Bluesky - They support Bridgy.
Vegafjord eo
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to Vegafjord eo • • •Broken
in reply to Autonomous User • • •SMS
Nobody wants to use a messaging app at all. At this point I'd rather be stuck on WhatsApp.
But its all family. Big family and try to get them to agree on anything is like pulling teeth.
I even sent everybody a "contact card" I made with my links to signal, simplex, and even whatsapp (figuring that's the path of least resistance) saying I'd prefer to communicate on any of those apps. ZERO people changed nor did they even ask about it, options, or my reasoning.
BlueberryWalnut
in reply to Broken • • •ZogeLebac
in reply to Autonomous User • • •spectraxil
in reply to Autonomous User • • •jjjalljs
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Vegafjord eo
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Autonomous User
in reply to Vegafjord eo • • •Like this, I think letting irrelevant tech talk hijack the conversation makes privacy inaccessible. We need to call it what it is: a scam, abuse, and hijacking of our control.
lemmy.world/comment/19262111
Autonomous User
2025-09-07 21:17:12
msherburn33
in reply to Autonomous User • • •The crux is that all the alternatives suck. I don't have a problem going App hopping, I just have a very hard time finding ones that don't fundamentally suck, and I am not talking about little implementation issue, but garbage like Signal that violates the GDPR, wants your phone number and is proud of it. Always grinds my gears when that gets celebrated as the "alternative". Same with the Fediverse, where user owns nothing and server operator controls everything, how again is that different from Reddit, Facebook and Co.?
Nostr and Tox seem ok so far, but really the amount of true alternatives that improve on the original in significant ways is pretty damn rare.
Paddy66
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Nightsoul
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Because lot of people just either don't care, are too lazy to switch, or the vast majority of their friends and family still use the apps.
In addition, they may feel like they are losing out on something, especially for Instagram where a large portion of the population uses regularly.
Catalyst_A
in reply to Autonomous User • • •duckworthy
in reply to Autonomous User • • •People can’t be convinced of anything, it’s a losing battle to try. The only way to get people to change is to live a certain way and if people admire it, then they ask you about it and you share.
So for example-I’m a minimalist and I really wished my sister would declutter because her place is overcrowded. But instead of trying to convince her, I just shared what my life normally was like. Eventually she asked me for help decluttering, and she felt a lot better about what I helped with. Now we share cleaning and organization tips.
For me, I just put in my insta bio I left for Pixelfed and to come friend me there.
I’ve told my friends I’m off insta because I’d rather be on a platform where I control my feed that’s ad free. And that I rarely see my friends content on insta so it doesn’t matter that much to me to have friends on there. If they get interested, great if not, I’m still happy.
SupremeDonut
in reply to Autonomous User • • •JackbyDev
in reply to Autonomous User • • •anon5621
in reply to JackbyDev • • •Silence | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository
f-droid.orgZeon
in reply to anon5621 • • •anon5621
in reply to Zeon • • •Zeon
in reply to anon5621 • • •anon5621
in reply to Zeon • • •GitHub - SilenceIM/Silence: PROJECT MOVED: git.silence.dev/Silence/Silence-Android/ (GitHub is just a mirror.)
GitHubLettuce eat lettuce
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Discord for me. A bunch of my family and friends are avid gamers. Discord is the universal standard app they all use for general communication.
Not only do they use it for all their gaming related stuff, they have additional servers and channels for just chilling, chatting, off topic stuff, memes, politics, etc etc.
It's the network effect. Even if there was an open source app that perfectly replicated all the functionality of Discord and was just as simple to install and run as Discord, most of them still wouldn't switch to it, because all of their friends and family are still on Discord.
So they would have to have two completely separate apps with totally separate social groups to maintain, and nobody but hardcore advocates for FOSS and privacy are willing to do that.
Sure, I have Discord, Matrix, IRC, Signal, XMPP clients, and a Private Mumble server, all on my systems, but I'm hardcore about FOSS. None of my friends and family are willing to do that. It took all my energy to convince two of my most techie friends just to get Signal on their pho
... Show more...Discord for me. A bunch of my family and friends are avid gamers. Discord is the universal standard app they all use for general communication.
Not only do they use it for all their gaming related stuff, they have additional servers and channels for just chilling, chatting, off topic stuff, memes, politics, etc etc.
It's the network effect. Even if there was an open source app that perfectly replicated all the functionality of Discord and was just as simple to install and run as Discord, most of them still wouldn't switch to it, because all of their friends and family are still on Discord.
So they would have to have two completely separate apps with totally separate social groups to maintain, and nobody but hardcore advocates for FOSS and privacy are willing to do that.
Sure, I have Discord, Matrix, IRC, Signal, XMPP clients, and a Private Mumble server, all on my systems, but I'm hardcore about FOSS. None of my friends and family are willing to do that. It took all my energy to convince two of my most techie friends just to get Signal on their phones. And only One has been willing to install a Matrix client to chat just with me.
njm1314
in reply to Autonomous User • • •Puddinghelmet
in reply to njm1314 • • •vithigar
in reply to njm1314 • • •Alcoholicorn
in reply to Autonomous User • • •People don't just stop using an app until there's very little activity.
Getting people to use a new app, especially one they have little activity on is inconvenient, especially if you're already checking WhatsApp, wechat, signal, telegram, LINE, Zalo, and discord because you have to many different friend groups.
vga
in reply to Autonomous User • • •NoodlePoint
in reply to Autonomous User • • •CatLikeLemming
in reply to Autonomous User • • •I'm still on Discord because everyone else is there. I've moved my direct social connections, so most of the things I'd use Discord dms for on a daily basis, over to dedicated direct messaging services, but communities are so much harder to move over. You can't shuffle between a hundred and a thousand people over to another platform unless somehow most of the groups they're in move over at once.
And to what? Matrix communities are not as convenient, Revolt's voice chats are not as good and screen sharing wasn't a thing at all last I checked and it doesn't have a mobile client, and TeamSpeak is primarily voice-based.
brucethemoose
in reply to CatLikeLemming • • •Omega
in reply to Autonomous User • • •My Good Sir
in reply to Omega • • •Lol, what because you tried Matrix and it SUCKS on both client and server?
XMPP can have a whole ass facebook app built inside it called Movim and it can be accessed from any "homeserver". It can be far more than Discord will ever want to be, if the cats can be herded
If you don't use Matrix well I guess bc it's ubiquitous among squishy Linux and leftist communities for some godawful reason despite being Israeli-developed, US state dept funded, and idiot-maintained. They even have a slot for it on these lemmy accounts
Omega
in reply to My Good Sir • • •VoxAliorum
in reply to Omega • • •Revolt - Find Your Community
revolt.chatbrucethemoose
in reply to VoxAliorum • • •Interesting.
What’s the catch? Is it all self hosted? If not, where’s the hosting cash coming from?
VoxAliorum
in reply to brucethemoose • • •I can't say for sure, but see this answer from 2022: github.com/orgs/revoltchat/dis…
Questions about Privacy, finances and bridging · revoltchat · Discussion #309
GitHubOmega
in reply to VoxAliorum • • •VoxAliorum
in reply to Omega • • •While they do lack screen share, it is in active development. See github.com/revoltchat/backend/… Last work on that issue happened 4 days ago. I am not a dev of revolt.
Voice Overhaul and Video Calling
insertish (GitHub)cub Gucci
in reply to Autonomous User • • •jenesaisquoi
in reply to cub Gucci • • •Russians still use these services, using VPNs. Source: I know some.
PS: Slava Ukraini!
icelimit
in reply to Autonomous User • • •shades
in reply to icelimit • • •FBI Likes This
doingthestuff
in reply to Autonomous User • • •obsoleteacct
in reply to Autonomous User • • •shades
in reply to obsoleteacct • • •shades
in reply to Autonomous User • • •So like, this is always seemingly done from a content CONSUMER point of view.
How can we provide content creators a safety net whom we as fans enjoy their content but said artists need to have their name and face out in the open? Particularly music artists/DJs/independent artists/etc?
I swear, anyone wanting privacy, just start calling yourself an artist and boom suddenly nobody can find any information about you! You don't even have to be serious about it, just take a crayola to a bar napkin... /s