Can we trust that isn’t a campaign to promote Google? What are these websites? Why aren’t they blocking an iPhone? Can any of that be replicated or is this just a Google campaign to create fear and doubt
Its basically forced by Google. I mean who wouldn't force it after someone deliberately removes your government sanctioned spyware. See if people stopped calling it google or Apple and just USA spyware with backdoor to your lives it would be better at getting to the privacy issues. I mean the NSA already proved this is a fact.
GrapheneOS user here! Not sure about websites but there are certain apps that don't work properly without Google Play Services, but Graphene's app store has a sandboxed version of it, so I just installed that and revoked all it's permissions. Then if an app needs it, I just turn on the relevant permission, do the thing and then turn permissions off again. It's a bit of a pain at first but I'm used to it now.
I'd say making a 2nd user for the apps that need Play Services (like banking and Uber/Lyft) is the move. This only allows Play Services to run when the 2nd user is on and also fully seperates it from the main user!
I'm a grapheneOS user and I don't have any google services installed. I havecyetvto hit any major issues with any apps or websites I use. Lucky, maybe?
Nobody likes CAPTCHAs. Now, with iOS 16 on iPhones, a small enabled toggle can make them disappear while improving privacy on your device. Here’s how to check if it’s “on” and try it out.
This does seem to work with sandboxed Google Play Services on GrapheneOS btw.
I scanned the demo QR code on Google's talk page about it with sandboxed Play Services enabled and it gave me a custom popup asking if I'd like to verify.
Unless you're doing that from a separate device in a separate location then all you're doing is giving them the data they need to link those two accounts
You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to a
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You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to avoid anything that uses this version of recaptcha. However, if you have to use these services then you can still reduce the amount of information leaked via Play Services by using a blank profile to scan the QR codes.
You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
its not even about complete anonymity. google has zero business in when I'm logging into my utilities company account, or other semi-governmental portals!
it has been solved for approximately 2 billion people on this planet, but those answers are not friendly to profit-seeking institutions like google and the only remaining institutions that can stop it are captured by the likes of google
for the record, I don't believe logging in with wechat is any better, and recaptcha is present on the utilities websites of my european country leaning towards china.
Sad thing is, that argument works against so many ppl. "I can trust this app. It's from Google!"
We(*) are tearing down personal computing. Brick by brick. The very idea of controling our own devs is getting lost. Replacing with Big Tech Feudalism.
They are most of the way there today. Make Identity Resolution inescapable. Bing bang boom.
It is more than just phones and lappys too. It's everything. That smart TV. That fitness watch. That automobile. That streaming music service. The ebook reader you got as a birthday gift.
Your behavior across every single device is data gold. This is today's reality.
I see a future where we have our mandated government ID shitphone for banking, corpo and government suchn'shit, and the laptop we access Anna's, Yggdrasil and TOR with.
and the days go by!
Not exactly same as it ever was, but seems kinda 2007 to me. I doubt any Lemmy instance or i2p site will enforce Google's QRcode spy-proxy.
It's not 2007. Devices are everywhere now, smartphones, TV's etc. The social dimension (social pressure) and implications are very different now. Their power increases, amount of people caught in the loop is immense now. 2007 was all still fun and games.
I had one of these CAPTCHAs recently and it still gave me the option to verify by clicking the squares. I wouldn't be surprised if they phased out the 'legacy' verification though.
It's funny, I hadn't noticed, maybe because any site aleeady using reCAPTCHA or cloudflare alreadt gets blocked by my ad blocker... If those sites can't do better on their own, its just another thing you don't need. This is kind of a nothing burger. Stay strong and let google commit suicide.
I don't use the internet for much these days, but I am on graphine OS and I have yet to be blocked from websites due to it. My adblocker prevents me from some, and not allowing javascript prevents me from some, but I've never seen that QR code or had any site prompt fro Google play services
As I understand it, it's a separate system, kind of like the TOTP 2FA, for comparison, but in this case it would be an additional system, and where normally anyone can use any provider for TOTP, this one is Google only. If websites implement this, and many likely will, you can only use those sites if you have a Google permitted phone that leeches all your private data 24/7
You have to move all the black pixel blocks into the empty spaces and solve the puzzle to open the link. Than cenobites come out of your phone and show you pleasures beyond pain.
And then Google retaliates by not allowing Motorola to include Google Play on any of their devices. In the end, Motorola just cancels their GrapheneOS partnership.
Monopolies are the number one reason everything sucks, and will continue to suck until we get non-corrupt politicians (which is impossible)
That's probably a reason they're doing this now. To stifle what might start to be a sizable amount of pushback. Sizable is still single digits but if it hits a whole % instead of >1 then we might start getting somewhere
If google requires me to permit other companies to leech all my personal data to be able to use anything on the Internet at all, I say we label Google, Microsoft, Apple as criminal organizations
I'm sorry, bit there have to be limits.
I. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. USE. ANYTHING. GOOGLE.
OR APPLE. OR MICROSOFT.
FUCK ALL THESE OLIGARCH COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND
I do not want my private data leeches and sold every day, I don't even get paid for it
That and fine them to oblivion. Piece their companies into parts. Make it all open source for the OS'es. Give ownership of companies to all the people. Etc. Lots and lots that can be done
This is really bad even just from the perspective of user behavior. Training people to scan QR codes from anything that looks like a captcha box is HORRIBLE for security.
"Thanks for scanning the code, just one more step! Please input your phone number, and type in the code you receive."
And the phone number thing is already happening too. Google, discord and probably other stuff already ask for a phone number to prove you are a human when they flag your account.
It's a server setting. one of my oldest servers has enabled this and I haven't chatted with anyone there anymore because I need to verify my phone first.
And you couldn't use your current phone for that? That is in cases where you have no choice left, and where your identity is known regardless. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good: just because this anti-feature may not work, doesn't mean you can't have better standards overall (assuming you're coming from a regular OS).
That's my point. If your non-Pixel or Googled phone is able to support the new Play Services, you could use that device for the verification, instead of using the GrapheneOS device.
Does Ubuntu Touch work on the 3a? That was my last phone, but after it was no longer supported by Graphene I bought a 7a. I don't really like Ubuntu but would like to experiment with a Linux phone.
It works, but its not really usable as a daily driver. None of the browsers render sites correctly and I couldnt make phone calls, but that might be a carrier thing on my end.
You can still go graphene and isolate play services in a secondary profile.
For a better future: Organisations and services that structure themselves to require third party services need to take contractual responsibility for the actions in their fulfillment supply chain, just as an online retailer takes responsibility for delivery agents. Google play services harvesting needs to be reflected in the privacy policy of every company that doesn't provide alternative access.
Wonder what will happen if we all start making data protection complaints about enforced non contractual third party data harvesting?
And forced to open-source their OS'es. And have to make their communities owned by the people instead of corpos. We are all beyond pissed and done with their shit. Everyone get more people on board into the movement daily to be focused on getting things done together!! Keep each other in the fight with online and in-person communities
Smartphones are such an utter wretch nowadays, & I'm not even sure if there was a time they weren't. I don't get the appeal of a smartphone, they do everything a dumbphone does but worse, more expensive & with an unremovable thick layer of scum, yeah a smartphone has some of the features of a laptop or desktop but who needs that baked into their phone for every moment?
People are trying so hard to fix smartphones (even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones) when they can get a dumbphone and be rid of those problems in the first place. Well that's my opinion at least, I think it might be a bit extreme.
"even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones"
To be fair, Pixels are available secondhand, often in Mint condition, which is why my last three Pixels and any other phone/tablet I've bought have been through swappa.com/.
You really don’t get the appeal or you just feel differently? I don’t like roller coasters but my reasoning doesn’t include me not getting the appeal others have for them.
I know the appeal (I think) but I worry that these things can be very harmful after a while, like how with the constant internet access provides constant distraction from anything important in one's life (like studying, working, etc).
if they add this requirement for the "I'm not a robot" technology this affects way more than stupid Facebook, reddit and the likes, most things behind anti DDoS use this shit.
I find this very dystopian, and there are not many "oh I'll just visit the sites than don't have it" alternatives. You might as well just open IRC and be done with it, I tend to visit a bit more of the internet (even if I haven't visited Facebook, Instagram and the likes in years)
i have one myself, and I can tell you that grapheneos won't be affected by this. the real damage is to people using things like dumb phones or BSD, even windows computers are effectively locked out of the internet.
Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They're convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google's Play Integrity API and Apple's App Attest API are very similar.
Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They're convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google's Play Integrity API and Apple's App Attest API are very similar. Apple brought it to the web via Privacy Pass, which Google intends on doing too.
Google's Play Integrity API requires hardware attestation for the strong integrity level and is gradually phasing in requiring it for the more commonly used device integrity level. Apple already has it as a requirement. Over the long term, this will increasingly lock out hardware and OS competition.
The purpose of these systems is disallowing people from using hardware and software not approved by Apple or Google. This is wrongly presented as being a security feature. Banks and government services are the main ones adopting it but Apple and Google are encouraging every service to use it.
Apple's Privacy Pass brought hardware attestation to the web to help with passing captchas on their own hardware. Many people saw that as harmless since few sites would be willing to
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Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They're convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google's Play Integrity API and Apple's App Attest API are very similar. Apple brought it to the web via Privacy Pass, which Google intends on doing too.
Google's Play Integrity API requires hardware attestation for the strong integrity level and is gradually phasing in requiring it for the more commonly used device integrity level. Apple already has it as a requirement. Over the long term, this will increasingly lock out hardware and OS competition.
The purpose of these systems is disallowing people from using hardware and software not approved by Apple or Google. This is wrongly presented as being a security feature. Banks and government services are the main ones adopting it but Apple and Google are encouraging every service to use it.
Apple's Privacy Pass brought hardware attestation to the web to help with passing captchas on their own hardware. Many people saw that as harmless since few sites would be willing to lock out non-Apple-hardware users. Apple and Google are both likely to bring broader hardware attestation to the web.
Google's reCAPTCHA is planning an approach where they use Privacy Pass on Apple hardware, their own approach on Google Mobile Services Android devices and a QR code scanning system to require an iOS or Google certified Android device for Windows and other systems:
Banking and government services increasingly require using a mobile app where they can use attestation to force using an Apple or Google approved device and OS. Apple's privacy pass, Google's 'cancelled' Web Environment Integrity and now reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification are bringing this to the web.
Current media coverage for reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification misunderstands it and the impact of it. They're bringing a hardware attestation requirement to Windows, desktop Linux, OpenBSD, etc. by requiring a QR scan from a certified smartphone to pass reCAPTCHA in some cases. They could expand it more.
Control over reCAPTCHA puts Google in a position where they can require having either iOS or a certified Android device to use an enormous amount of the web. Google defines certification requirements for Android which includes forcing bundling Google Chrome, etc. It's enormously anti-competitive.
Google's Play Integrity API bans using GrapheneOS despite it being far more secure than anything they permit. It also bans using any other alternative. This isn't somehow specific to an AOSP-based OS. You can't avoid this by using a mobile OS based on FreeBSD instead. You'll just be more locked out.
Google's Play Integrity API permits devices with no security patches for 10 years. The device integrity level can be bypassed via spoofing but they can detect it quite well and block it once it starts being done at scale. The strong integrity level requires leaked keys from TEEs/SEs to bypass it.
It doesn't provide a useful security feature, but it does lock out competition very well. Services requiring Apple App Attest or Google Play Integrity are primarily helping to lock in Apple and Google having a duopoly for mobile devices. Play Integrity is more relevant due to AOSP being open source.
Governments are increasingly mandating using Apple's App Attest and Google's Play Integrity for not only their own services but also commercial services. The EU is leading the charge of making these requirements for digital payments, ID, age verification, etc. Many EU government apps require them.
Instead of governments stopping Apple and Google from engaging in egregiously anti-competitive behavior, they're directly participating in locking out competition via their own services. Requiring people to have an Apple device or Google-certified Android device is anti-competition, not security.
reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification will currently work with sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS but it clearly exists to provide a way for them to start using hardware attestation on systems without it. People without an iOS or Android device will be locked out when this is required even without that.
This isn't about security or any missing functionality. GrapheneOS can be verified via hardware attestation. Google bans using GrapheneOS for Play Integrity because we don't license Google Mobile Services and conform to anti-competitive rules already found to be illegal in South Korea and elsewhere.
Services shouldn't ban people from using arbitrary hardware and operating systems in the first place. Google's security excuse is clearly bogus when they permit devices with no patches for 10 years but not a much more secure OS. It's for enforcing their monopolies via GMS licensing, that's all.
The ongoing battle against online privacy is a symptom of capitalism, the EU is a capitalist state. The only thing the EU would ever do against US-based capitalism is to gobble up those capital gains for themselves. It doesn't matter if it happes or not, the privacy-issues for end-users would never be alleviated by the EU.
From what you're saying, they would've already introduced all those capitalist methods of control the first time around.
Which they didn't.
What gives?
Also: the EU is literally incapable of "gobbling up capital gains for themselves" because "themselves" doesn't exist in this context - the EU is not a "State". The member-states might (and some do).
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We seriously need to ask Valve to make SteamOS phones.
Not only will they be good for gaming but imagine being able to put other OS'es on it like PC's. Bazzite, PostmarketOS, etc. Plus Valve will still get revenue from people using the upcoming Steam ARM Game Store, and the current Bannerhub/Gamenative community android apps that enable playing PC games they own from Steam/GOG on Phones
Its such a huge opportunity that we all should be encouraging then to pursue now and after they release their current 3 big projects: Steam Controllers, Steam Machines, Steam Frames
Out of all of the billionaires he is one that is one of the least bad out of the rest of them, and is doing plenty of good things himself.
I don't agree with his yachts business yet I agree with his side project of making boats specifically for ocean research. I don't agree with him still getting paid so much today, yet I agree that he pays and treats his employees and customers well
End of the day it's another option to get open phones that can have bootloader unlocked to change OS, and not be locked down. It is good to have more options currently where there are few.
Many online PC gamers have this opinion too so overall its more so a matter of time and comes down to if Valve really wants to then they will.
Fairphone 4. It's working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the "feel" i have with it, it no more feels like I'm carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It's more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge 😀
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. 😁 Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the
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Fairphone 4. It's working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the "feel" i have with it, it no more feels like I'm carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It's more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge 😀
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. 😁 Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the fridge.
You do whatever you want, but out of curiosity: how is that helping with this issue in anyway? pmOS does not have Google Play nor the Apple equivalent. GOS has the option of having a sandboxed Google Play.
If you're serious about it probably worth just using an old phone as an Auth device and only switch it on for that and still use graphene as your daily driver.
A Motorola phone soon shipping with GrapheneOS isn't just a rumor but it doesn't help with the problem of Google making their very popular robot detection service classify deGoogled Android users as non-human.
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i generally agree, although for some reCaptcha-using websites there actually aren't alternatives. eg many governments, healthcare providers, public utilities, etc are using it 🙁
Don't give money to google by buying Pixel phones. Even buying used, creates demand as people are more likely to keep upgrading every year as they know it will be easy to sell their used Pixels for a good price.
There are absolutely things that are more ethical than others. Absolute statements like that are unhelpful. Fairphone is not perfect, but a lot more ethical than the alternatives.
First off, that's software when the user asked for an alternative to the Pixel, which is hardware.
Secondly, I don't see how those are an alternative. It's websites locking you out unless you run Google Play Services. LineageOS etc doesn't run the official PlayServices which is what this requires.
Nobody's saying that those other ones are terrible and they are better than stock Android for security and less tracking here. But it is the best one and does things that the other ones don't.
You can use a fairphone with one of those and if you're happy with it, it's absolutely better than what most people do and if it works it works. But people really like GOS for a good reason. The cult comment can be applied to Linux users, so who gives a shit?
the pixel is a very secure phone from a hardware level, the full list of security features missing from other android manufacturers is in the grapheneos faq
there is no comparable alternatives right now, though something might come out of the graphene and motorola deal
There is and there never will be a perfect solution and you shouldn't let an imperfect solution stop you from using the best one of these just because buying a used pixel MIGHT urge somebody to buy another new one. You may not want to do that, but it is silly and way too idealistic and impractical to demand others not to switch to Graphene because of that.
Buying a used pixel to degoogle and make your phone more secure and less likely to spy on you more than balances out the potential for there being one more new pixel on the future. There will never be a perfect solution and this one is fine enough for most. You may disagree and that's ok.
This 1000 times. I can't understand the logic behind willfully getting a Pixel phone. Isn't it enough that Google spies on you every chance they get, you want actual hardware from them too? lol
I'm not a security guy, what is the problem that this is supposed to be fixing? Like I guess you wouldn't be able to use a virtuallised os to visit your banking website? Like I understand if you work for a bank you should only be able to access some things from specific computers, but normal people?
It's intended to be a successor to the current reCAPTCHA, sold as harder to spoof than current picture-based versions. Now, almost from its start, CAPTCHA existed to train AI vision models. So Google basically painted themselves into a corner using free labor to train models good enough to recognize images, now they are switching to device signals.
That said, they're going to have to provide a compatibility layer for iOS which AFAIK doesn't come with Google Play Services right now. So I have some faith in the smart folks who make these de-shittified OSes working something out via microG or the like.
Realistically, it’s keeping people in their walled garden.
I felt for a long time, "trusted computing" is such a doublespeak term. It gets avg ppl to think "Oh ofc i want to trust my device! Who wouldn't want that?"
Ofc what it really does, is gives BigTech the final control over everybody's dev.
It started out promising. Keep malicious things from changing your firmware or disk without permission. But the tools were never open enough to let you do it. So it only became trusted for those who paid into it.
So i just checked back a day later after posting this and it blew up more than i expected. I've gotten some comments suggesting its not really preventing GrapheneOS from being usable, so this might need more context. Do your own research and testing on this one for sure, as with most things. Sorry for not answering comments, quite busy right now.
I mean when you're paying $260 to $300+ for even a used Pixel (8 is the oldest one supported till 2029 I think), that can be a hell of an investment to make if the thing is nerfed from alternate OSs.
To anyone not switching because of this-- in my experience this is something I can work around. On most websites my captchas still work. I have had a few that dont work, and I just close the website and move on. It hasn't happened on any websites that are very important for me to visit. Usually its a store and they really me to install their stupid app. Nope.
graphene can have the play service, but in a sandbox. anything other than that uses microg so its emulated. probably needs some time to get up to speed. if not, just use the desktop site instead of mobile. i dont really see this as much of a threat to any of us.
Desktop site is going to require QR scan. I don't know what they are going to do about "I don't have a phone" / "I only have a dumb phone" population. I suspect that sometime soon I'll have to buy a stay-at-home Google certified device, to bridge the locked down features and services.
Pretty sure their solution would be mandatory carrying of approved devices. It will be the only way to provide identification and payments, essentially all the stuff religious nuts say about the mark of the beast minus the weird parts like demons or the invisible counter mark and shit like that.
this is such a weird idea to me. why do i need a phone to browse on my pc? what if my phone is not charged, what if the camera is broken or simply covered due to work regulations. such a dumbass idea.
Capitalism is fine small scale, most systems are. Humans are just wired for efficiency and so with every player on the same board the most ruthless player wins.
Capitalism does not work because companies will always seek to grow more and more and more. It's the core of capitalism. You meed anti-capitalist policies to keep companies small.
Ah yes, the mythical small business capitalism we all hear about. I will agree it sounds good on paper and also seems to distribute money in a somewhat efficient manner.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
I think there is a worthwhile debate here around systems and culture. Perhaps capitalism could work if people were not inherently so greedy. I tend to believe that culture is the deciding factor which is a little disheartening honestly.
It's not just culture. Most people value community and the well-being of others above amassing wealth (provided their needs are met). The problem is that capitalism indoctrinates us against those values, and even more that it rewards and empowers those who don't share them at all.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
the primary "authoritarian" government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that's why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.
I sure hope you are not talking about China as they have produced more billionaires than the US for the last two years dramatically increasing their income gap. If you think they have capitalism in check I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
you're not wrong -- china's billionaire count is up. but here's the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov't already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.
that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it'll happen again and again. china's churn is fast, but the pattern's the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.
The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with
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The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with the US. China is great because of the US not despite it.
The narratives the one party pushes are garbage and you truly have to be naive to believe the propaganda they spew forth.
so much to to unpack, so i'm going to focus on the misinformation in your comment.
first, claiming china "murders anyone they disagree with" isn't evidence -- it's hyperbole. china's authoritarian, history suggests a necessity for it, but that line doesn't help your argument.
second, you say china turned to capitalism after "failed policies cost tens of millions of lives." that's a enormous, contested historical claim you're dropping like it's settled fact; it's not.
third, "china is great because of the us" is incredible oversimplification. china's growth came from its own labor, reforms, and global trade -- yes, including with the us, but that's mutual benefit, not charity.
you're right to criticize billionaire wealth and long work hours. but mixing valid criticism with exaggerated or contested claims just weakens your point. stick to the facts when criticizing china -- believe me, they're more than damning enough on their own.
Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you "team" doesn't mean everyone else is.
It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.
"Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion."
Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.
I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.
you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not ev
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you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.
the us investment figure -- $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn't invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that "china is great because of the us" is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you're confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.
nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy's propaganda and china’s at the same arm’s length -- while your sources show that full-throatedly chug the former.
Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I think you are being very disingenuous abou
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Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I think you are being very disingenuous about your indoctrination into Chinese propaganda. I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.
It’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil
Thank you for getting this quote right. Often, it’s shortened to “money is the root of all evil”, which hits different, and removes the element of personal responsibility. The “love of money” bit is important.
Exactly. Money as a tool is fine. You need a way to pay for stuff. It's the love of money, money as a goal in itself, far beyond what you'll ever need to live, that's the problem.
Regulations used to exist to break that that behavior. But they were either removed over time or not enforced. It can be done. It used to be. It wasn’t flawless but it wasn’t what we have today either.
Everything is possible. Some things just highly unlikely in the current political climate. I think the mamdani method of doing a shitload of door to door campaigning has been really successful in other parts of the world as well.
It can give a huge boost to leftist parties which then will be able to affect positive change but also change the political landscape. Overton window and all that.
What I'm saying is get the fuck out with your local leftist party/candidate or whatever if you can.
I mean yes, but waiting for the world to change isn't healthy I believe. Either arrange yourself with how it is now or try to be the change. I bet it's best to do both.
voting for incremental change within a captured isn't the change we (or anybody) needs, it's only being forced to chose between options predetermined by the capitalists.
Same. And I think it is even more ridiculous when you have to rely on their hardware too. They control the hardware drivers AND the OS upstream, how do you exist if not by their permission?
This is misunderstanding the problem, I think. This is not a weakness in GrapheneOS due to being an AOSP derivative, it's a weakness imposed by Google on all alternative OSes whether they are AOSP derived or not. They present a scannable code that will only be cleared if you scan it with Google's Android.
Unless there's something else going on here. Either way, anger should be directed at Google, not GOS or its users. (annoying though they might sometimes be ;)
It's just... everything kinda sucks hard these days. Internet and computer stuff in general is my getaway from all the depressing IRL stuff. But internet is also becoming shitty now. Personal computing is barely a thing nowadays; everything is turning into walled surveillance nightmares. Can't even call them "walled gardens", because gardens are actually supposed to be, like, nice things
I hear you. Centralization without regulation comes with a huge cost. I'm trying to use more decentralized services and self host replacement for all google services gradually. And eventually replace phone with a lora msg and gps device that only has phone capabilities when on wifi.
Simultaneously I'm trying to "Return to monke". interact less with technology and more with people and nature.
Many things are actually amazing. Used enterprise hardware is faster and more affordable than ever. Desktop Linux is so much fun to use, we never have to interact with windows or mac. There's people out there working on mostly free or entirely free hard- and software.
The good news is that there are enough people feeling this that refuges from the enshittification are growing. We're in one right now.
Also, while online personal computing has definitely been getting worse, offline personal computing is better than it's ever been. Growing that is sort of like making your own walled garden.
That all said, only keep to technology as much as it improves your life. The other people saying to go into nature more have it right.
I would imagine that having a full control of the underlaying system would allow a wrapper to be developed for the Play Services, so it would not to be able to spy on you so well. Just feeding some partially spoofed data to it, or even whitelist it to work only with the apps that require it.
That's exactly what the GraphendOS project did. IF you choose to install Google's bullshit, which I did to use Maps and such, they run in a wrapper that makes them usable without the level of system access they typically require.
You can install Google Play Services as a sandboxed app on GrapheneOS. That's not the issue. I believe the issue is that Google will use hardware attestation to check if the OS you're running it on is Google-approved.
The most dead cheap supported option would be the Pixel 6, which looks like it sells starting at about $130 on Swappa. The security recommended minimum from Graphene team would be the Pixel 8, which lists starting at $220.
ISOmorph
in reply to NGC2346 • • •like this
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comrade_twisty
in reply to ISOmorph • • •meowmeow
in reply to NGC2346 • • •like this
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Arthur Besse
in reply to meowmeow • • •Alas Poor Erinaceus
in reply to Arthur Besse • • •Arthur Besse likes this.
DeathsEmbrace
in reply to meowmeow • • •like this
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in reply to meowmeow • • •like this
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Alas Poor Erinaceus
in reply to Random Dent • • •☂️-
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to ☂️- • • •𝕽𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖑 𝕽𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖑
in reply to Random Dent • • •Random Dent
in reply to 𝕽𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖑 𝕽𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖑 • • •grey_maniac
in reply to Random Dent • • •Random Dent
in reply to grey_maniac • • •Fisch
in reply to meowmeow • • •meowmeow
in reply to Fisch • • •anamethatisnt
in reply to meowmeow • • •support.google.com/recaptcha/a…
blog.cloudflare.com/how-to-ena…
How to enable Private Access Tokens in iOS 16 and stop seeing CAPTCHAs
The Cloudflare Blogmeowmeow
in reply to anamethatisnt • • •Krusty
in reply to meowmeow • • •meowmeow
in reply to Krusty • • •Bluescluestoothpaste
in reply to Krusty • • •christophe
in reply to meowmeow • •Privacy reshared this.
AmbitiousProcess (they/them)
in reply to NGC2346 • • •This does seem to work with sandboxed Google Play Services on GrapheneOS btw.
I scanned the demo QR code on Google's talk page about it with sandboxed Play Services enabled and it gave me a custom popup asking if I'd like to verify.
FauxLiving
in reply to AmbitiousProcess (they/them) • • •krashmo
in reply to FauxLiving • • •Xenny
in reply to krashmo • • •FauxLiving
in reply to krashmo • • •You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to a
... Show more...You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to avoid anything that uses this version of recaptcha. However, if you have to use these services then you can still reduce the amount of information leaked via Play Services by using a blank profile to scan the QR codes.
WhyJiffie
in reply to FauxLiving • • •its not even about complete anonymity. google has zero business in when I'm logging into my utilities company account, or other semi-governmental portals!
eldavi
in reply to WhyJiffie • • •WhyJiffie
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to WhyJiffie • • •WhyJiffie
in reply to eldavi • • •Sucking Chest Wound
in reply to NGC2346 • • •comrade_twisty
in reply to Sucking Chest Wound • • •What they are doing is way worse tban what you understood.
These QR codes will show on your Desktop PC and you will need an Android phone or an iOS device with a logged in Google QR code app to get past it.
kalpol
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •comrade_twisty
in reply to kalpol • • •That's why you have to use the special google app that will protect you from all these dangers*
*and also collect all your data, sell it to advertisers and forward it to US surveillance agencies (for your own protection of course).
FineCoatMummy
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •Sad thing is, that argument works against so many ppl. "I can trust this app. It's from Google!"
We(*) are tearing down personal computing. Brick by brick. The very idea of controling our own devs is getting lost. Replacing with Big Tech Feudalism.
(*) Not most of us here. But in the whole pop.
drrodneymckay_
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •curiousaur
in reply to drrodneymckay_ • • •FineCoatMummy
in reply to drrodneymckay_ • • •Ayup that has been the holy grail of big tech.
They are most of the way there today. Make Identity Resolution inescapable. Bing bang boom.
It is more than just phones and lappys too. It's everything. That smart TV. That fitness watch. That automobile. That streaming music service. The ebook reader you got as a birthday gift.
Your behavior across every single device is data gold. This is today's reality.
bridgeenjoyer
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •Phantaloons
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •Guess I'm not going to Youtube, then.
I see a future where we have our mandated government ID shitphone for banking, corpo and government suchn'shit, and the laptop we access Anna's, Yggdrasil and TOR with.
and the days go by!
Not exactly same as it ever was, but seems kinda 2007 to me. I doubt any Lemmy instance or i2p site will enforce Google's QRcode spy-proxy.
freebee
in reply to Phantaloons • • •Phantaloons
in reply to freebee • • •Undoubtedly, and more still will be as corporate greed turns the internet into pay-per-view TV. We can't help that.
Make your decision for yourself for what to do with your connections and your own devices. You are in control of at least that, if nothing else.
Programman4233
in reply to Sucking Chest Wound • • •MonkderVierte
in reply to NGC2346 • • •DukeNukem
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Bluegrass_Addict
in reply to DukeNukem • • •irelephant [he/him]
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Free_Appalachia
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Carrot
in reply to NGC2346 • • •eldavi
in reply to Carrot • • •NannerBanner
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to NannerBanner • • •candyman337
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Phoenixz
in reply to candyman337 • • •No, I think.
As I understand it, it's a separate system, kind of like the TOTP 2FA, for comparison, but in this case it would be an additional system, and where normally anyone can use any provider for TOTP, this one is Google only. If websites implement this, and many likely will, you can only use those sites if you have a Google permitted phone that leeches all your private data 24/7
Isn't the future awesome?
ScoffingLizard
in reply to Phoenixz • • •godsammitdam
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Bluegrass_Addict
in reply to godsammitdam • • •..
tabularasa
in reply to godsammitdam • • •PierceTheBubble
in reply to godsammitdam • • •dudesss
in reply to godsammitdam • • •AceSLive
in reply to dudesss • • •TrickDacy
in reply to AceSLive • • •odelik
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to odelik • • •TrippingBalls
in reply to godsammitdam • • •TrickDacy
in reply to TrippingBalls • • •MeatPilot
in reply to godsammitdam • • •Donn
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Lemmayng
in reply to Donn • • •Goodlucksil
in reply to Lemmayng • • •entwine
in reply to Goodlucksil • • •And then Google retaliates by not allowing Motorola to include Google Play on any of their devices. In the end, Motorola just cancels their GrapheneOS partnership.
Monopolies are the number one reason everything sucks, and will continue to suck until we get non-corrupt politicians (which is impossible)
TrickDacy
in reply to entwine • • •Vendetta9076
in reply to Donn • • •Phoenixz
in reply to NGC2346 • • •If google requires me to permit other companies to leech all my personal data to be able to use anything on the Internet at all, I say we label Google, Microsoft, Apple as criminal organizations
I'm sorry, bit there have to be limits.
I. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. USE. ANYTHING. GOOGLE.
OR APPLE. OR MICROSOFT.
FUCK ALL THESE OLIGARCH COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND
I do not want my private data leeches and sold every day, I don't even get paid for it
jafra
in reply to Phoenixz • • •Batmorous
in reply to Phoenixz • • •DungeonTreasureHunt
in reply to NGC2346 • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to DungeonTreasureHunt • • •Pirate2377
in reply to ScoffingLizard • • •AmbitiousProcess (they/them)
in reply to NGC2346 • • •This is really bad even just from the perspective of user behavior. Training people to scan QR codes from anything that looks like a captcha box is HORRIBLE for security.
"Thanks for scanning the code, just one more step! Please input your phone number, and type in the code you receive."
Boom, account stolen.
LeapSecond
in reply to AmbitiousProcess (they/them) • • •InFerNo
in reply to LeapSecond • • •Ophrys
in reply to NGC2346 • • •PierceTheBubble
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Goodlucksil
in reply to PierceTheBubble • • •PierceTheBubble
in reply to Goodlucksil • • •CrypticCoffee
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Pirate2377
in reply to NGC2346 • • •rhythmisaprancer
in reply to Pirate2377 • • •bagsy
in reply to rhythmisaprancer • • •rhythmisaprancer
in reply to bagsy • • •hperrin
in reply to NGC2346 • • •lemmyng
in reply to hperrin • • •IratePirate
in reply to lemmyng • • •TrickDacy
in reply to hperrin • • •hperrin
in reply to TrickDacy • • •GMac
in reply to NGC2346 • • •You can still go graphene and isolate play services in a secondary profile.
For a better future:
Organisations and services that structure themselves to require third party services need to take contractual responsibility for the actions in their fulfillment supply chain, just as an online retailer takes responsibility for delivery agents. Google play services harvesting needs to be reflected in the privacy policy of every company that doesn't provide alternative access.
Wonder what will happen if we all start making data protection complaints about enforced non contractual third party data harvesting?
FatVegan
in reply to GMac • • •Typotyper
in reply to FatVegan • • •Under system you can add secondary profiles. You can deni them access to text...not sure if the profile can see your phone number.
discuss.grapheneos.org/d/9253-…
How do you set up your profiles? - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion Forumplyth
in reply to GMac • • •How does that help? Google gets your IP and location. Then they can use the IP to identify the connections in the other profile.
razen
in reply to NGC2346 • • •bagsy
in reply to razen • • •jafra
in reply to bagsy • • •freebee
in reply to razen • • •Batmorous
in reply to freebee • • •Batmorous
in reply to razen • • •Vytle
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Sarcasmo220
in reply to Vytle • • •You could switch to a Linux phone...
But then it comes with its own issues that many people do not want to deal with
Telex
in reply to Vytle • • •lemmylump
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Geodes & Gems
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Smartphones are such an utter wretch nowadays, & I'm not even sure if there was a time they weren't. I don't get the appeal of a smartphone, they do everything a dumbphone does but worse, more expensive & with an unremovable thick layer of scum, yeah a smartphone has some of the features of a laptop or desktop but who needs that baked into their phone for every moment?
People are trying so hard to fix smartphones (even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones) when they can get a dumbphone and be rid of those problems in the first place. Well that's my opinion at least, I think it might be a bit extreme.
Lemmayng
in reply to Geodes & Gems • • •"even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones"
To be fair, Pixels are available secondhand, often in Mint condition, which is why my last three Pixels and any other phone/tablet I've bought have been through swappa.com/.
Waraugh
in reply to Geodes & Gems • • •Geodes & Gems
in reply to Waraugh • • •Sarcasmo220
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Patrikvo
in reply to Sarcasmo220 • • •topperharlie
in reply to Patrikvo • • •if they add this requirement for the "I'm not a robot" technology this affects way more than stupid Facebook, reddit and the likes, most things behind anti DDoS use this shit.
I find this very dystopian, and there are not many "oh I'll just visit the sites than don't have it" alternatives. You might as well just open IRC and be done with it, I tend to visit a bit more of the internet (even if I haven't visited Facebook, Instagram and the likes in years)
auzy1
in reply to NGC2346 • • •FeelThePower
in reply to NGC2346 • • •2053507778719748465
GrapheneOS (X (formerly Twitter))Niquarl
in reply to FeelThePower • • •er/16609652
dogs0n
in reply to FeelThePower • • •Sounds like GrapheneOS isn't affected only for now?
As in sandboxed google play may stop working for this at any point.
;(
Cantaloupe
in reply to NGC2346 • • •SethDove
in reply to NGC2346 • • •w3ird_sloth
in reply to NGC2346 • • •ramenshaman
in reply to w3ird_sloth • • •daggermoon
in reply to ramenshaman • • •Freakazoid
in reply to NGC2346 • • •eleitl
in reply to Freakazoid • • •Alaknár
in reply to eleitl • • •eleitl
in reply to Alaknár • • •Narri N. (they/them)
in reply to Alaknár • • •Alaknár
in reply to Narri N. (they/them) • • •From what you're saying, they would've already introduced all those capitalist methods of control the first time around.
Which they didn't.
What gives?
Also: the EU is literally incapable of "gobbling up capital gains for themselves" because "themselves" doesn't exist in this context - the EU is not a "State". The member-states might (and some do).
Batmorous
in reply to Freakazoid • • •We should all be encouraging Europeans to:
We all tired of their fucking shit. Everyone keep getting people active and informed on all this!! Together anything is possible!!
Cantaloupe
in reply to NGC2346 • • •I should be good with sandboxed Google play.
But wtf we’ll need a phone to solve captchas now? What happens if you don’t have one?
HrabiaVulpes
in reply to Cantaloupe • • •boonhet
in reply to HrabiaVulpes • • •dO yOu GuYs NoT hAvE pHoNeS?
AzAMOuS (YouTube)Batmorous
in reply to NGC2346 • • •We seriously need to ask Valve to make SteamOS phones.
Not only will they be good for gaming but imagine being able to put other OS'es on it like PC's. Bazzite, PostmarketOS, etc. Plus Valve will still get revenue from people using the upcoming Steam ARM Game Store, and the current Bannerhub/Gamenative community android apps that enable playing PC games they own from Steam/GOG on Phones
Its such a huge opportunity that we all should be encouraging then to pursue now and after they release their current 3 big projects: Steam Controllers, Steam Machines, Steam Frames
Medic8teMe
in reply to Batmorous • • •Batmorous
in reply to Medic8teMe • • •Out of all of the billionaires he is one that is one of the least bad out of the rest of them, and is doing plenty of good things himself.
I don't agree with his yachts business yet I agree with his side project of making boats specifically for ocean research. I don't agree with him still getting paid so much today, yet I agree that he pays and treats his employees and customers well
End of the day it's another option to get open phones that can have bootloader unlocked to change OS, and not be locked down. It is good to have more options currently where there are few.
Many online PC gamers have this opinion too so overall its more so a matter of time and comes down to if Valve really wants to then they will.
kadotux
in reply to NGC2346 • • •smokeymcpott
in reply to kadotux • • •NightmareQueenJune
in reply to kadotux • • •neo2478
in reply to kadotux • • •Which Fairphone, and how's it working for you?
I have the FP6 with e/os right now. It works pretty well, but I am against some decisions from Murena (like using OpenAI for voice recognition)
I'm looking forward to switching ROMs when there is more support for the FP6
kadotux
in reply to neo2478 • • •Fairphone 4. It's working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the "feel" i have with it, it no more feels like I'm carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It's more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge 😀
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. 😁 Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the
... Show more...Fairphone 4. It's working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the "feel" i have with it, it no more feels like I'm carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It's more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge 😀
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. 😁 Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the fridge.
matlag
in reply to kadotux • • •pmOS does not have Google Play nor the Apple equivalent. GOS has the option of having a sandboxed Google Play.
magnue
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Linkerbaan
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Jako302
in reply to Linkerbaan • • •Arthur Besse
in reply to Linkerbaan • • •Motorola partnership announcement - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion Forumrumba
in reply to Arthur Besse • • •You know what does fix that? boycotting sites that use their protection.
There are alternatives.
like this
Arthur Besse likes this.
Arthur Besse
in reply to rumba • • •i generally agree, although for some reCaptcha-using websites there actually aren't alternatives. eg many governments, healthcare providers, public utilities, etc are using it 🙁
Arthur Besse
2026-04-18 07:46:24
rumba
in reply to Arthur Besse • • •The only way that public services stop using a certain brand of captcha is when they get an unreasonable amounts of support requests.
we're REALLY good and being noisy when we want to be...
neo2478
in reply to NGC2346 • • •poopsmith
in reply to neo2478 • • •neo2478
in reply to poopsmith • • •krolden
in reply to neo2478 • • •neo2478
in reply to krolden • • •There are mch more ethical companies than google to buy phones from, like Fairphone.
And "wayyy" less secure is very debatable. There a some security features missing, but still more than secure enough for the vast majority of users.
krolden
in reply to neo2478 • • •mcv
in reply to krolden • • •Blue_Morpho
in reply to neo2478 • • •First off, that's software when the user asked for an alternative to the Pixel, which is hardware.
Secondly, I don't see how those are an alternative. It's websites locking you out unless you run Google Play Services. LineageOS etc doesn't run the official PlayServices which is what this requires.
neo2478
in reply to Blue_Morpho • • •I took the question as an alternative to Grapheme, but perhaps you are correct.
And all those OSes you could install. Google Play Services if you want, even sandbox them like Graphene.
shiftymccool
in reply to neo2478 • • •neo2478
in reply to shiftymccool • • •They are not as secure, but are private and more than secure enough in my opinion.
And some can be used with more ethical phones like the Fairphone.
GOS sometimes feel like a cult to me. GOS is absolutely the only good ROM and everything else is terrible. There is no nuance.
TootTootComingThru
in reply to neo2478 • • •Nobody's saying that those other ones are terrible and they are better than stock Android for security and less tracking here. But it is the best one and does things that the other ones don't.
You can use a fairphone with one of those and if you're happy with it, it's absolutely better than what most people do and if it works it works. But people really like GOS for a good reason. The cult comment can be applied to Linux users, so who gives a shit?
eru
in reply to neo2478 • • •the pixel is a very secure phone from a hardware level, the full list of security features missing from other android manufacturers is in the grapheneos faq
there is no comparable alternatives right now, though something might come out of the graphene and motorola deal
neo2478
in reply to eru • • •The question is, are those missing features actually meaningful enough to support an evil company?
For me they are not.
Bluescluestoothpaste
in reply to eru • • •TootTootComingThru
in reply to neo2478 • • •There is and there never will be a perfect solution and you shouldn't let an imperfect solution stop you from using the best one of these just because buying a used pixel MIGHT urge somebody to buy another new one. You may not want to do that, but it is silly and way too idealistic and impractical to demand others not to switch to Graphene because of that.
Buying a used pixel to degoogle and make your phone more secure and less likely to spy on you more than balances out the potential for there being one more new pixel on the future. There will never be a perfect solution and this one is fine enough for most. You may disagree and that's ok.
FosterMolasses
in reply to neo2478 • • •monotremata
in reply to FosterMolasses • • •greedytacothief
in reply to NGC2346 • • •jabberwock
in reply to greedytacothief • • •It's intended to be a successor to the current reCAPTCHA, sold as harder to spoof than current picture-based versions. Now, almost from its start, CAPTCHA existed to train AI vision models. So Google basically painted themselves into a corner using free labor to train models good enough to recognize images, now they are switching to device signals.
That said, they're going to have to provide a compatibility layer for iOS which AFAIK doesn't come with Google Play Services right now. So I have some faith in the smart folks who make these de-shittified OSes working something out via microG or the like.
rumba
in reply to greedytacothief • • •They're claiming it security authentication.
Realistically, it's keeping people in their walled garden.
You can use a web browser on a Linux computer and get right through, this change is to force people to only run latest generation google products.
This would also block people from using real google phones over a certain age where they cannot upgrade the OS anymore.
FineCoatMummy
in reply to rumba • • •I felt for a long time, "trusted computing" is such a doublespeak term. It gets avg ppl to think "Oh ofc i want to trust my device! Who wouldn't want that?"
Ofc what it really does, is gives BigTech the final control over everybody's dev.
rumba
in reply to FineCoatMummy • • •NGC2346
in reply to NGC2346 • • •u/CaperGrrl79
in reply to NGC2346 • • •NGC2346
in reply to u/CaperGrrl79 • • •FosterMolasses
in reply to u/CaperGrrl79 • • •cockmushroom
in reply to NGC2346 • • •xorollo
in reply to NGC2346 • • •blinfabian
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Freakazoid
in reply to blinfabian • • •YouTube is slow because a .js script that put a 5 sec artificial delay in time for using adblockers on the site.
Yt implemented it a while back.
Freakazoid
in reply to blinfabian • • •kepix
in reply to NGC2346 • • •ReginaPhalange
in reply to kepix • • •I don't know what they are going to do about "I don't have a phone" / "I only have a dumb phone" population.
I suspect that sometime soon I'll have to buy a stay-at-home Google certified device, to bridge the locked down features and services.
DillDough
in reply to ReginaPhalange • • •kepix
in reply to ReginaPhalange • • •what if my phone is not charged, what if the camera is broken or simply covered due to work regulations. such a dumbass idea.
FluorideMind
in reply to NGC2346 • • •grrgyle
in reply to FluorideMind • • •destiper
in reply to FluorideMind • • •FluorideMind
in reply to destiper • • •iglou
in reply to FluorideMind • • •Doomsider
in reply to FluorideMind • • •Ah yes, the mythical small business capitalism we all hear about. I will agree it sounds good on paper and also seems to distribute money in a somewhat efficient manner.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
I think there is a worthwhile debate here around systems and culture. Perhaps capitalism could work if people were not inherently so greedy. I tend to believe that culture is the deciding factor which is a little disheartening honestly.
zqps
in reply to Doomsider • • •eldavi
in reply to zqps • • •@Doomsider@lemmy.world
the primary "authoritarian" government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that's why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to Doomsider • • •you're not wrong -- china's billionaire count is up. but here's the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov't already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.
that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it'll happen again and again. china's churn is fast, but the pattern's the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with
... Show more...The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with the US. China is great because of the US not despite it.
The narratives the one party pushes are garbage and you truly have to be naive to believe the propaganda they spew forth.
eldavi
in reply to Doomsider • • •so much to to unpack, so i'm going to focus on the misinformation in your comment.
first, claiming china "murders anyone they disagree with" isn't evidence -- it's hyperbole. china's authoritarian, history suggests a necessity for it, but that line doesn't help your argument.
second, you say china turned to capitalism after "failed policies cost tens of millions of lives." that's a enormous, contested historical claim you're dropping like it's settled fact; it's not.
third, "china is great because of the us" is incredible oversimplification. china's growth came from its own labor, reforms, and global trade -- yes, including with the us, but that's mutual benefit, not charity.
you're right to criticize billionaire wealth and long work hours. but mixing valid criticism with exaggerated or contested claims just weakens your point. stick to the facts when criticizing china -- believe me, they're more than damning enough on their own.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •goldsea.com/article_details/ch…
Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you "team" doesn't mean everyone else is.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Ch…
It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.
"Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion."
Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.
I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.
Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)eldavi
in reply to Doomsider • • •you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not ev
... Show more...you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.
the us investment figure -- $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn't invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that "china is great because of the us" is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you're confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.
nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy's propaganda and china’s at the same arm’s length -- while your sources show that full-throatedly chug the former.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I think you are being very disingenuous abou
... Show more...Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I think you are being very disingenuous about your indoctrination into Chinese propaganda. I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.
mcv
in reply to destiper • • •magnetosphere
in reply to mcv • • •Thank you for getting this quote right. Often, it’s shortened to “money is the root of all evil”, which hits different, and removes the element of personal responsibility. The “love of money” bit is important.
mcv
in reply to magnetosphere • • •muusemuuse
in reply to destiper • • •sexy_peach
in reply to muusemuuse • • •Everything is possible. Some things just highly unlikely in the current political climate. I think the mamdani method of doing a shitload of door to door campaigning has been really successful in other parts of the world as well.
It can give a huge boost to leftist parties which then will be able to affect positive change but also change the political landscape. Overton window and all that.
What I'm saying is get the fuck out with your local leftist party/candidate or whatever if you can.
teyrnon
in reply to sexy_peach • • •sexy_peach
in reply to teyrnon • • •eldavi
in reply to sexy_peach • • •sexy_peach
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to sexy_peach • • •FosterMolasses
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Sounds like the other shoe just dropped on all the people who've been religiously swearing by GrapheneOS.
If it's based on Google: They can control it. You won't ever catch me utilizing "alternative" chromium providers exactly because of shit like this lol
Crozekiel
in reply to FosterMolasses • • •Bilb!
in reply to FosterMolasses • • •This is misunderstanding the problem, I think. This is not a weakness in GrapheneOS due to being an AOSP derivative, it's a weakness imposed by Google on all alternative OSes whether they are AOSP derived or not. They present a scannable code that will only be cleared if you scan it with Google's Android.
Unless there's something else going on here. Either way, anger should be directed at Google, not GOS or its users. (annoying though they might sometimes be ;)
favoredponcho
in reply to Bilb! • • •Vegafjord demcon
in reply to NGC2346 • • •sexy_peach
in reply to Vegafjord demcon • • •Vegafjord demcon
in reply to NGC2346 • • •That's a raid!
Stand your ground.
Mio
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Manalith
in reply to Mio • • •cafuneandchill
in reply to NGC2346 • • •NGC2346
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •First, don't.
Second, at least you won't get bombarded by auto mods spamming suicide hot line number.
cafuneandchill
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Don't worry, I won't.
It's just... everything kinda sucks hard these days. Internet and computer stuff in general is my getaway from all the depressing IRL stuff. But internet is also becoming shitty now. Personal computing is barely a thing nowadays; everything is turning into walled surveillance nightmares. Can't even call them "walled gardens", because gardens are actually supposed to be, like, nice things
TrippinMallard
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •I hear you. Centralization without regulation comes with a huge cost. I'm trying to use more decentralized services and self host replacement for all google services gradually. And eventually replace phone with a lora msg and gps device that only has phone capabilities when on wifi.
Simultaneously I'm trying to "Return to monke". interact less with technology and more with people and nature.
sexy_peach
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •Many things are actually amazing. Used enterprise hardware is faster and more affordable than ever. Desktop Linux is so much fun to use, we never have to interact with windows or mac. There's people out there working on mostly free or entirely free hard- and software.
Things weren't so good in the past either.
ericwdhs
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •The good news is that there are enough people feeling this that refuges from the enshittification are growing. We're in one right now.
Also, while online personal computing has definitely been getting worse, offline personal computing is better than it's ever been. Growing that is sort of like making your own walled garden.
That all said, only keep to technology as much as it improves your life. The other people saying to go into nature more have it right.
LoafedBurrito
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Hiro8811
in reply to LoafedBurrito • • •OsrsNeedsF2P
in reply to NGC2346 • • •hietsu
in reply to OsrsNeedsF2P • • •zqps
in reply to hietsu • • •Ascend910
in reply to NGC2346 • • •mcv
in reply to NGC2346 • • •schuelermine
in reply to NGC2346 • • •RoachFire
in reply to NGC2346 • • •teyrnon
in reply to RoachFire • • •eldavi
in reply to teyrnon • • •nek0d3r
in reply to teyrnon • • •