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Has anyone actually run into problems not using manure and other animal derived fertilisers?


I have been gardening this block for 5 years, not an enormous time, but I don't use animal products to fertilise I just use compost/mulching/weed tea/and cover crops.

Everything seems fine. Yet every gardening show or whatever will be like "slather that manure and blood and bone on each year, use fish emulsion, fucking sacrifice your firstborn on that shit". Am I an idiot or do you just not need to do any of that?

edit: not looking for the peanut gallery. Interested in opinions from people who don't use animal products and what their experience has been.

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

I don't use animal products intentionally. I can't know for certain if soil I buy contains compost that includes animal manure, but other than that nope.

It's really hard to find compost but if you don't need the bulk and you just need the PKN, synthetics are readily available. We've been growing plants specialty to compost so that we can get that bulky material to add to our heavy clay soil.

Personally I use synthetic on houseplants and alfalfa meal/kelp meal outside.

in reply to arcane potato (she/they)

Yeah I use synthetics inside as healthy living soil in a pot long term is hard.

Our council hooks people who don't compost with people who do. So between an overgrown garden and the street I have plenty.

in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

That's amazing! Most of my neighbors just have grass on their land and leave the clippings there but I should definitely ask around. We have municipal compost but I compost everything that I can at home.
in reply to arcane potato (she/they)

Yeah I have mixed opinions on my council after they had a vegan hate fest when one member suggested they live their goal of a green council by not serving animal products at events.

But some of the initiatives are defs v cool.

in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

@NaevaTheRat [she/her] @arcane potato (she/they) You can still agree with making a place greener and/or supporting green initiatives without being so extreme as to ban things made with animal products.
in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

Well it's more complicated than this. Different plants need different combinations of nutrients to grow optimally. The primary nutrients we talk about are phosphorus, nitrogen, and potassium. You would need to test your soil and compare to the needs of the plants you want to grow, then ammend accordingly. The most affordable amendments are typically animal products, and they do work. There's a reason any commercial operation spends extra money on these things, if they didn't work, they would just keep that money and get the same yields. If you did this, you would absolutely be able to improve yields, but to what degree and if it is worth it is dependent on all these variables being known. In general, a home garden will do fine just with what you are talking about. Unless you are trying to win a blue ribbon at your local county faire, you are gonna be fine.
in reply to Jabril [none/use name]

in reply to arcane potato (she/they)

Manure is not what I am talking about, primarily it is animal bones, fish, bat guano, bird droppings, feather meal, blood meal, etc.

I think most farms use synthetic fertilizers but every organic farm I have worked on and every organic farmer I know uses some variation of the above as their primary soil amendments along with plant compost and worm byproducts.

in reply to Jabril [none/use name]

in reply to arcane potato (she/they)

Hey sorry for the confusion, I will rephrase what I said: most commercial non organic farms use synthetic fertilizers but every organic farm i have worked on in the US and every organic farmer I know (at least three dozen commercial organic farms) use animal based fertilizers. The OP asked about these, I am not advocating for them but answering the question about if they work to to produce higher yields than home composting alone.

I didn't realize this was a vegan instance, I am not promoting the use of these products, just answering OPs question.

On a side note:
Does worm casings or worm tea go against vegan principles?

This entry was edited (2 months ago)
in reply to Jabril [none/use name]

Does worm casings or worm tea go against vegan principles?


In general yes. Veganism is about respecting other living being's right to live unmolested. Worms farms artificially constrain the lives of creatures which may not appreciate that, and the process of breeding and distributing them harms many.

It is completely vegan to say have a compost pile open to the ground and make it attractive to worms, provided of course you're not making a deathtrap etc. But worm farms tend to be about preventing worms from leaving. I can't think of a way to collect the liquid that wouldn't interfere with their ability to burrow.

You might think this absurd, but we literally don't know how consciousness arises or how widespread it is. Because we don't need to have worm farms, and worms may not enjoy being interfered with, it is a position of unjustified arrogance to risk harm for our convenience.

in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

Thanks for giving me a thorough answer! I appreciate you taking the time to lay it all out for me.
in reply to Jabril [none/use name]

No worries. We have a reputation on lemmy for being insane zealots that hate you all but we're really just trying to find a way to live that makes consent and respect the core of it all.

Feel free to ask questions in good faith, nobody is going to bite your head off.

in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

@NaevaTheRat [she/her] @Jabril [none/use name] At least that was a civilised response. I realised mine a bit earlier was somewhat extreme. I have just seen many things that make absolutely no sense from vegans. It's not a personal attack against individuals.
in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

@NaevaTheRat [she/her] @Jabril [none/use name] Really? So worms are intellectually capable enough to decide where they live? Do they hold town meetings about it, perhaps form nations with passports, so that other worms can't enter without appropriate paperwork?
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

TIL it's fine to put babies in a cage because they don't form nations.

Please, if you're going to be stupid could you at least be polite and stupid? Read the rules of the community.

in reply to NaevaTheRat [she/her]

@NaevaTheRat [she/her] Actually, we do. They're called cribs and play pens. The difference is that children can eventually think for themselves and mature into adults.