Skip to main content

in reply to HowAbt2morrow

Deepseek is an alternative- no privacy for sure. Signal is us based.
in reply to HowAbt2morrow

I've heard it's open source and you can run it offline
in reply to metaStatic

I've also heard some "running it offline avoids all the Chinese biasing and spying" anecdotes. Though I haven't seen any first hand evidence of this. Needs testing, imo.
in reply to Glide

In my experience this is true, but I’m also just some person on the screen.
in reply to Glide

Running it offline does avoid some of the censorship, but not all. Let me explain: Failsafes are implimented to check what topics are being talked about (like tieneman square). These are not included inside the model itself (though it does have a type of post-training, reinforcement-based censorship applied to the finished model). This second type of censorship (the kind actually included in the model weights) can actually be removed by retraining using similar reinforcement techniques. This means that the
Tldr is:
There is censorship baked into the model but because the weights are public, it can be removed /bypassed. In contrast the deepseek web app includes both kinds of censorship (and also definitely steals your data). The local model obviously does not.
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Honse

My local version spat out this:

Of course, let me explain. In 1989, there were significant pro-democracy demonstrations in Beijing's Tiananmen Square, led primarily by students and other citizens advocating for reforms. The Chinese government, in response, took actions that resulted in a tragic loss of life and a strong suppression of the protests. It's a complex and sensitive topic in Chinese history. Do you have any specific aspects you'd like to discuss further?

Deepseek R1 is the least censored model that I've tried. It does a lot less of the "As an AI assistant, I can't help with unethical whatever" compared to the corporate approved US ones too.

in reply to teuto

And since it's an open weight model, any remaining reluctance to talk about whatever subject can be abliterated or fine-tuned away if it's really a problem.
in reply to teuto

Fwiw, chatgpt gave me a full historical account of the incident., after some prodding, so did deepseek local.

Deepseek local is easy to remove the guardrails though.

in reply to Glide

A local model is just a giant matrix of numbers, so as long as you're running it locally you can be sure it's not secretly recording or communicating information with any outside source. Just make sure you trust the software that's running it (there's plenty of open source alternatives for that that have nothing to do with China).
in reply to Glide

the spying, yes, if you make sure and apply a per-process whitelisting firewall on the system.

the biasing, no, that's in the model.

in reply to metaStatic

You're right, the server, cryptographic library, and all clients are open source.

That said, I have a few personal caveats.

  1. US government funding and markings are all over Signal.
  2. The official app doesn't make it clear how to connect to a custom server. As a self hosting enthusiast myself, I only found out it was possible when checking on your claim that it's all open source.
in reply to sunstoned

I was talking entirely about Deepseek.

I never would have bothered to check because someone already pointed out Signal is US based but that is very interesting.

so thank you.

in reply to metaStatic

have you just heard that it is possible (it is, technically), or did you also try it in practice? did you check the hardware requirements?
in reply to ReversalHatchery

Distilled versions of Deepseek are available that can be ran on consumer-grade GPUs, and I have done this myself. I've even ran a really small one on my phone, though obviously at that scale it's going to be slow and bad lol
in reply to cyrano

Why wouldn’t this be hosted on something like Codeberg.org or self hosted rather than on GitHub?
in reply to Tm12

Fair shout. I’m not the repo owner but that is a great idea actually
in reply to Tm12

Because whoever curated this list doesn't know what they're talking about. I got as far as the web browsers and I immediately closed it.
in reply to Jessica

The fact that proton mail is in the first spot for mail providers made me immediately nope out. If that is listed without a massive asterisk, it's just no list I'm willing to trust in any way, as it clearly can't be trusted.
in reply to Creat

Because their CEO praises Trump?

I know you didn't say that I just wanted to point that out!

in reply to cyrano

Couple more here:
european-alternatives.eu/alter…
in reply to kambusha

Thanks for heads up! I've shared that link to my circles
in reply to cyrano

Be aware proton is very likely a CIA honeypot. I thought that was far-fetched till the team at proton started paying vassalage to Trump.
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Viri4thus

They didn't "pay vassalage to trump". They spewed the same libertarian tech bro bullshit that most companies trying to cozy up to a new administration did. And the damage control responses align with that.

It isn't particularly good. But on the list of "privacy" corporations that are potentially honeypots, they still rank fairly low.

in reply to Viri4thus

This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to ᥫ᭡ 𐑖ミꪜᴵ𝔦 ᥫ᭡

This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent

Sorry, just to check: your evidence is "I think I read it somewhere?". If it weren't for "weak argument, dismissed" being too "cringe" even for ME...


I'm not a US citizen, so unless you're going to make some good arguments about your US politics, until then.. I'm not obligated to listen or even care about your politics, if you're not giving me something I can use in future discussion with others, I'll dismiss what you say and treat it as noise.. As far as I know Proton replied to these Trump concerns and their reply seemed reasonable... But what do I know.. Lastly.. I'm not making any claims.. I'm just saying I'm not satisfied with that comment 🤨..

in reply to ᥫ᭡ 𐑖ミꪜᴵ𝔦 ᥫ᭡

I am not making arguments for US politics. I am not here to give you "something (you) can use in future discussion with others"

I am telling you that you have no evidence whatsoever but you are spewing bullshit. You are just as bad as trump making up bullshit about how he read a report that nuking a hurricane would solve all problems. Your argument is literally "I think I heard somewhere"

We are all scared. We are all trying to protect ourselves. Maybe you can be an ally instead of an agitator, hmm?

in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent

You have a problem with my Proton critism or me not being satisfied with the Trump argument ? why you're mixing the two ?

I didn't say I heard somewhere... ever.. go back and read... slowly this time

This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to ᥫ᭡ 𐑖ミꪜᴵ𝔦 ᥫ᭡

There was a blog post by a website called Privacy Watchdog (if I remember correctly), I can’t find that website anymore nor the blog post,


Yeah. And trump totally read an article somewhere that black trans people are the root of all evil. He can't find it right now, but totally trust him on that.

I don't know if you are just this stupid or if you are actually trying to undermine those who are trying to make educated decisions on what they should or should not "trust" communication wise (you'll note that I all but say "don't trust proton. protect yourself").

But either find that mystery article so that people can make educated decisions or shut the fuck up.

This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent

Yeah. And trump..


I thought so, you seem to think I'm a Trump fanboy 🤦‍♂️, you're very mistaken

totally read an article somewhere


If you actually gave a damn about making educated guesses that piece of info should have been all you need to find that article, but you're here to start shit, you want me as an ally, your tone lost me.. maybe you should work on that first

in reply to ᥫ᭡ 𐑖ミꪜᴵ𝔦 ᥫ᭡

in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent

You see, when you actually post a link to stuff people can discuss what you are talking about and explain why you are misinformed and clearly referencing a somewhat deranged hit piece.


You and i both know it wasn't the citation (or the lack of) that caused you to use that language..

This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Viri4thus

I don’t like the CEO comments but that’s a huge stretch of an assertion.
in reply to cyrano

Brave browser is on the list and is an American company. Why not LibreWolf and Zen Browser as good Firefox forks.
in reply to Goodtoknow

Brave has always seemed sketchy to me. Now they have a bunch of sketchy crypto, ai, and vpn stuff.
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to GrumpyDuckling

I prefer Vivaldi over brave, but if I have to choose I choose Firefox
in reply to cyrano

focusing on privacy


Rakuten is very privacy invasive imo

in reply to cyrano

Where do I even start with this?

  1. Privacyguides.org exists for this purpose.
  2. Why non-US?
  3. This document is hosted on a US-based tech monopoly website, completely unnecessarily. It's just a markdown document.
  4. A lot of these suggestions are just bad. Deepseek? Is possibly the least private service on the web. I realize you can self-host it but that distinction is imperative and yet omitted.
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Ulrich

All three browsers recommended are Chromium-based as well, so they're dependent on Google and have to suffer from the Manifest v3 problem and the necessary manual intervention. Brave even is known for being maintained by a dick. Some of those recommendations are really bad.

Don't get your second question though. The reasons for non-US should be obvious.

in reply to Natanox

The reasons for non-US should be obvious.


Well they're obviously not so maybe you can enlighten me.

in reply to Ulrich

You know how Americans think Chinese and Russian services are bad because of their government's use of user data?

It's the same for us non-americans with American platforms. All the "anti-terror" laws have made them a privacy nightmare

in reply to Ulrich

  1. People in many countries are boycotting US products as a response to their new tariffs.