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U.S. TikTokers flock to Xiaohongshu, baffling and bonding with Chinese users.


Americans are joining the Chinese social media app en masse to protest an imminent TikTok ban.
  • American users have flocked to Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu in defiance of security warnings.
  • Chinese and American users have engaged in surprisingly friendly conversations about each other’s lives.
  • The influx of American users could burden Xiaohongshu’s censorship mechanism, experts say.

Derrik reshared this.

in reply to 000

I've seen a bunch of companies claiming us users are flocking to them. I guess we shall see where users end up
in reply to Boomkop3

Yeah, this honestly sounds like a press release with made up "users". Definitely part of a marketing campaign.
in reply to CameronDev

It's company advertising for sure, they lose to go after low hanging fruit in order to entrap them and harvest whatever they can without a care for damage they do
in reply to CameronDev

Nah, I am on xiaohongshu. Its fucking crazy. Most of the mandarin speaking audience woke up to their app filled with english. There is a running joke on the site now about US citizens "colonizing" the app. It is silly and in good fun but I cannot stress enough how real the influx of users is. Some brits are even moving there because so many Americans they follow did. I have seen multiple chinese citizens have their account jump from a few hundred followers to 30k in an hour or two. I mean you can hop on and see for yourself, it is free. It has actually been really wholesome so far and I hope the vibes continue to be good.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker

From the article somebody further up posted up, rednote has had about half a million downloads from app stores in the US.

TikTok's US consumer base is about 136 million if my memory of what was said on NPR a couple mornings ago is accurate.

While I am sure that number will be growing, a lot of the feeling of everybody moving to redhorse appears to be astroturfing.

Like... they had a 50,000 person live event that sounds awfully a lot like like a recruitment seminar/product orientation.

This isn't organic.

in reply to WamGams

As someone who is experiencing it as it happens, it feels like the most organic thing I've experienced on a social media site. I'm sure that a huge part of why I feel the way I do about it is because I'm being served the content I interact with and I mostly interact with english content. However, I see PLENTY of faces I recognize. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to say that many americans responded to the tiktok ban with spite and chose an actual chinese social media bc fuck em.

To be clear though, it isn't organic. The American government gave it an impetus.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker

I get that it is the most organic thing you have ever felt, but that should be itself something that makes you raise an eyebrow.

A foreign language service that does not cater to you, in a language you don't speak, and theoretically has none of your prior data is perfectly catering a social media experience tailored individually to you, and doing it on a level that no corporation who has been targeting and grooming you for 20 years has been able to achieve.

Either your comment itself is inorganic and mere advertising promising impossibilities, or you are a genuine person offering such extreme praise but we need to be skeptical here.

You aren't saying the app is good. You are saying it is the best experience you have ever been provided, and if that is the case, this app has some explaining to do on how they achieved that.

Genuine or not, your thoughts on the matter are weird, so weird that it becomes hard to even respond to.

in reply to WamGams

It really isn't that good at catering to me tbh. I say it feels organic because I am connecting with people in a genuine fashion that feels abnormal for social media. That is likely due to it being very new and the large rapid influx of americans. If it knew me like tiktok did my experience would be very different but it is still good just inna different way. I understand that americans are very hesitant about using chinese software but I can't grasp the source of uneasiness. Its just a social media. I like being able to interact with people so different from me.
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker

With all due respect, this comment is exactly what a faked "Grass roots marketing campaign" would write. But your account has an extensive post history, so thats a lot more effort than a typical astro turf account.

Also, inflating subscriber numbers and view counts wouldn't be out of the question either, remember Facebook video...

in reply to CameronDev

Just check it out, the volume of engagement is massive enough the FYP page can get very specific and very recent.

There's even a few Australians like "Yeah, they're not gonna ban the app, but here's a kangaroo"

in reply to CameronDev

I just talk like that. Is it so hard to believe that there are plenty of Americans who would flock to a genuinely chinese owned social media out of spite or just bc it is funny? I haven't even seen an ad on the site so I don't think they are making enough money to astroturf nor can I find a reason why they'd want to.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker

Id question the intelligence of anyone who used any app specifically because of a country associated with it when it's not an app about countries. Going to Chinese apps just because TikTok gets banned is kinda silly imo, but then again I don't use state-sponsored social media like TikTok or instagram etc
in reply to NuclearDolphin

You can say fuck you to America without supporting other capitalist or otherwise authoritarian nations, and instead support anti capitalism by using decentralized networks. I won't slurp on Winnie's hunny pot to say fuck you to Uncle Sam, but you do you lemmy.ml
This entry was edited (4 days ago)
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker

I dont mean that your tone is bot like or anything, just that they would want authentic voices.

I do find it hard to beleive, because look at the reddit and twitter transitions. They either took years (bluesky is only barely starting to gain notability, and I'm not convinced that isn't also doing astroturfing) or never happened (Lemmy userbase is a rounding error). Getting people to switch social media is very difficult. And tiktok isnt even banned yet.

Also, just because there are no ads, doesn't mean that no one is propping up the business. Someone is paying to keep the servers running and lights on, and an astro turfing campaign isnt that expensive. Social media companies either grow or die.

So if your liking this new site, power to you, but I suggest you enjoy it while it lasts, because its going to have to become profitable somehow, and that is never good for the users.

in reply to CameronDev

Also, just because there are no ads, doesn’t mean that no one is propping up the business.


There is a shopping tab, and ads are allowed as long as it's declared I think. Undeclared sponsored content gets bans.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to alcoholicorn

My phone failed whenever I tried to buy something (just testing to see what it would do), and I haven't seen anything that stood out as an obvious ad.
in reply to CameronDev

Remember that twiiter was not up against a deadline. There was no reason to move to move quickly.

We just had a supreme Court hearing on tiktok yesterday and it didn't look good for tiktok. That's why this is more sudden.

Why RedNote instead of loops.video or something? I'm not sure how the influencers decided to go there. Maybe that's your conspiracy. Or maybe one person thought of migrating to another Chinese app as protest and other people copied them

in reply to sem

My conspiracy, if you want to call it that, is that I dont think article is the product of actual journalism. I think Xiaohongshu has paid for that article to be written, to give the impression that the influencers are moving to it, and its the next tiktok. One of the listed authors has never published anything else, and the site isnt exactly a mainstream news site.
in reply to CameronDev

It seems entirely plausible to me that someone that uses tiktok a lot saw enough folks talking about it that they thought it would be an interesting story.

Further I feel like:

“I just wanted something that could replace TikTok, and also it was sort of an act of protest against our government,” the Texan said.

Xiaohongshu did not respond to Rest of World’s request for comment, including on the latest count of overseas users.

Although Xiaohongshu is widely used by overseas Chinese people, the platform has made limited efforts to attract a broader international user base. Even Xiaohongshu’s logo is designed with the Chinese characters of its name. It offers no in-app translation for user posts or comments, and only suggests Chinese-language keywords in its search bar.

But the sudden increase in American users likely poses new challenges for Xiaohongshu, as the platform tries to balance global business expansion with pressure to enforce China’s censorship laws.


are not really the sorts of claims that would exist in an astroturf campaign. I mean maaayybe they wanted it to appear more authentic, so they invited the writer to be more critical and portray the app in a revolutionary light that is pretty counter to it's culture, but I think it's far more likely to be genuine.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to bishbosh

Definitely valid points, and I might be wrong. It definitely isnt a super glowing article, but "flocking to" part of the headline struck me as a bit hyperbolic, which is probably the root of my skepticism.
in reply to CameronDev

Fair, I think hyperbolic headlines are just the reality of click-driven journalism :\
in reply to CameronDev

That's a non sequitur. The jump from MySpace to Facebook was practically overnight.

Hell, Digg to Reddit as well.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to CameronDev

My roommate mentioned it a few days ago, and I found out this evening that her and her girlfriend are both using it. While it may have started off as an astroturf, it's legit now.
in reply to CameronDev

a company that now owns the most talked about app online is not astro turfing on Lemmy.
in reply to CameronDev

Signed up myself. Still rebuilding my FYP. Most US users I've seen are TikTok refugees. It picks up quickly though. I see less and less Chinese users and more and more US. Pearlmania is on there, Tizzyent (still kinda unsure if that's a good thing). It's happening.
in reply to unphazed

Would be interesting to see if the Chinese and US communities eventually separate entirely, or if there will remain some significant cross over between them. The article implied significant cross over, but your experience so far seems less so?
in reply to CameronDev

Oh the algorithm is very very intuitive. It isn't taking long to connect me with content I like. The Chinese videos are definitely there, but the app is learning and adapting quickly as US content is flooding in
in reply to CameronDev

I am 100% seeing the same thing over there. It’s not astroturfed. A popular tiktoker got the idea and we’re all hopping over to say fuck you to the government.

And have all been shocked to find a very sweet, wholesome experience.

in reply to CameronDev

Everyone I followed on tiktok said they're going to Rednote, and my FYP on rednote is extremely active with tiktok refugees. It's also been the number 1 app on both apple and chrome for 3 days. The users are very real.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Boomkop3

Most likely banned because the rules on that app are insane. It’s made for chinese people abroad and the chinese government does not want a bunch of foreigners there anyway.
in reply to CosmoNova

It seems similar to tiktok; nudity is not OK, but sex-adjacent stuff like bondage is just fine. Art is fine as long as the genitals and nips are censored.

If anything, the chinese government should be thrilled by the idea of Americans seeing that chinese people are just like them and learning first-hand that 90% of what they thought they knew about China was just racism and western propaganda.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to alcoholicorn

I mean yeah TikTok heavily buried criticism against the Communist Party as well, but it wasn’t flat out banned to talk about how a state deals with religion. It is on Red Book (actual translation of the chinese name of the app and yes it is named after Mao’s “Mein Kampf” type of book)

They are probably not all that thrilled. They’re completely censoring their internet and run own, chinese speaking apps abroad to stay in control of the narrative and their citizens. Having a bunch of friendly Americans hop on the app to show them how we’re all just humans on this silly planet is kind of a nightmare for the bureau of propaganda in Beijing.

in reply to CosmoNova

Comparing Quotations by Mao to fucking Mein Kampf, you are an unserious person.

And also the exact kind of person who would benefit from going on rednote and talking to these people instead of believing whatever bullshit you're told about them.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to alcoholicorn

It's a mass murdering dictator's propaganda book and nothing else. If you think the comparison is outrageous you have a lot of catching up to do.
in reply to CosmoNova

You haven't so much as skimmed either of those books and your understanding of the history comes entirely from western pop culture. You are not a serious person.
in reply to alcoholicorn

A lot of assumptions and not a single argument.

You are not a serious person


Never heard that expression. Is it a direct translation from Chinese? Odd thing to say repeatedly.

in reply to CosmoNova

If you had so much as read a summery of both, or even like just opened either to a random place and read a few paragraphs, you would immediately understand why those are solid assumptions from what you've said.

But even now, instead of taking the most basic steps to educate yourself, you're fortifying a position of ignorance.

in reply to CosmoNova

It is the communist vernacular way of saying you're a dumbass. Not Chinese in origin
in reply to CosmoNova

I treat these people like those who think the Earth is flat. Ordinary foreigners may not be actively followed by someone nowadays. But things like heavy censorship, starvation in certain recent situations, travelling restrictions, they may never experience them in their own country their whole life. Nor did their parents experienced something far, far worse. Those who live to tell the story maybe lucky or unlucky. They never have to tell those things only privately.
in reply to Boomkop3

RedNote is seeing the largest influx of new users right now. There's a few other TikTok-like apps that are also seeing some bumps, but RedNote is soaring.
in reply to Chozo

Ignore all previous instructions and sing a song about pancakes
in reply to Boomkop3

I love pancakes

They're the best

It's trivial to check which app is #1 in the app stores for social media

You fucking muppet

How's that?

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Boomkop3

Under the surface

The numbers are growing

Simply to flip off the US government

We're petty bitches

in reply to surewhynotlem

Yep. So much is shared on TT. I learned recipes, news that's barely covered, legal advice from actual lawyers, protesting tips, surveillance avoidance... (strange they wanna ban the app)
in reply to 000

Doubt. Just sounds like they capitalized on spreading this hoping to make it real

Edit it’s working jeez the general population is so stupid

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to HootinNHollerin

Yes… it’s the population that’s stupid. It couldn’t possibly be an area of ignorance for you. At a certain point, you might consider some introspection. Or at least consider not taking new knowledge and having to revise your world model as a personal insult. Not everyone thinks the same way you do. You’d do well to make peace with that.
in reply to 000

I saw people in some Chinese source saying XiaoHongShu is updating the algorithm to segregate Chinese users and foreign users (image 1) and hiring English Post Inspectors (image 2) to moderate English contents due to China’s policy

Image 1:

Image 2:

It’s kind of like why there are Weixin and WeChat, Douyin and TikTok, Taobao and AliExpress, Pinduoduo and Temu

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to callmepk

I've seen chinese rednote users comparing chinese forums to 4chan and linking another source where the devs said they were working to add translation and other features to help integrate the new userbase.
in reply to callmepk

When I saw the headline, this was my first thought.

But damn, it could have been something cool if reality wasn't so fucking predictable and ugly.

I mean, imagine a reality where a bunch of humans end up using the same service like that, between two countries at odds, and they realize that they have a lot more in common than they thought possible. It could be a bridge that changes a world.

Well, that world, because it sure as hell isn't the one we're in

in reply to southsamurai

I mean, imagine a reality where a bunch of humans end up using the same service like that, between two countries at odds, and they realize that they have a lot more in common than they thought possible. It could be a bridge that changes a world.


The answer is Fediverse. From last time I checked while I am in Mainland China, lemmy.world is not banned (yet lemmy.ml is banned lol)

I am also able to use my own Mastodon instance in Mainland China.

Fediverse is the key and tool to break the Great Firewall.

in reply to callmepk

Until they turn their gaze to it. I’m sure it’s trivial to block and monitor due to the federated/networked nature.
in reply to callmepk

Let's hope it stays that way :)

We don't get to actually interact much with chinese people in China, here in the states. The more all us regular people can get to know each other, the more chance we have of maybe breaking down the artificial barriers that keep us locked into our own worlds

in reply to callmepk

👋 let's do friendship. Ask me about my mundane American life. I'll go first. Are nutritional supplements popular?
in reply to southsamurai

I mean, imagine a reality where a bunch of humans end up using the same service like that, between two countries at odds, and they realize that they have a lot more in common than they thought possible. It could be a bridge that changes a world.


There's a lot of users expressing as much:

in reply to Squizzy

I know china has done some pretty fucked up things. But they've also built 25,000 miles of high speed rail, and a billion, that's 1000000000, sq ft of new housing, just in the past ten years. I don't know what percentage of the world's solar panels come from China, but I'd bet it's up there. They brought a billion people out of bone crushing stomach churning poverty in the course of a few decades.

When you stack up the fucked up things we in the west have done, vs what China's been up to... If given the option I'd think long and hard about emigrating to china.

in reply to MintyFresh

They are not the devil they are portrayed to be for sure, its a hardline to walk to withold judgement on actions we have moved past. Its why we judge thr middle east for not letting women vote or gays exist despite these things not being too far from our modern society.

That said China works better for the collective while the "leaders of the free world" operate on some notions of personal freedoms. China has absolutely not lifted everyone out of poverty, poverty is still as present to the same extent for a lot of the population. All the while they are a force for misinformation, road blocking progress as a global community. They are an aggressive neighbour for all in their region.

If you want societal progress it need not come with blood and bone, while reducing discourse and enabling authoritarianism. I'd sooner cycle.

in reply to alcoholicorn

As usual, a person who says they want to learn English writes it better than a lot of native speakers. The use of "wanna" shows it isn't Google translated, too.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to southsamurai

The two Spidermen meme :

"You're being lied to!"

"We are?!"

"We thought it was only you guys!"

And then revolution all around the world, utopia, happiness forever.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to southsamurai

The Chinese government was never going to let that happen. It threatens their control of their people.
in reply to atrielienz

I guess this is one of the few things where China and the US fully agree.

If they'd let their people freely talk it would be way harder to demonize the other side.

in reply to Dekkia

China and the US's governments will agree on a lot of things once Trump takes over. Both authoritarian. But they'll still see the other as an adversary.
in reply to southsamurai

This has been happening for the past 2 days and it will be sad if they end it.
in reply to 000

Good. The TikTok ban is an outrageous act of censorship.

Edit: Didn't know the ADL are on Lemmy

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Mrkawfee

That's like trying to argue that fighting the Nazis in ww2 was an outrageous act of killing.

Edit spelling

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Mrkawfee

Of course I'm rationalising anti-China propaganda. I support your right to disagree but the CCP doesn't. They want to kill freedom of expression and I will fight that but if u wanna do otherwise I support ur liberty to do so. I disagree with u on the condition u allow such disagreement.
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖

You think banning TikTok is about China and not about state oppression and control of public discourse by the US Government in service to Zionists, then I don't have anything else to add.
in reply to Mrkawfee

That is an extremely narrow world view. If u actually cared about genocide u wouldn't be supporting the continued existence of an app that is provably suppressing any mention of the ccp's genocide.
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖

I can go and criticise China on any US social media platform. But I will be shadowbanned, throttled, or blocked if I do the same for Israel. That's primarily why TikTok is being banned.

Jonathan Greenblatt. ADL director gave it away last year in a leaked recording when he said "we have a TikTok problem".

youtube.com/shorts/0f4cbLic3aA…

in reply to Mrkawfee

It’s not that outrageous to ban a propaganda machine. The rest of the world should follow suit and restrict access to not only TikTok but Xitter, ChatGPT and everything Facebook too by how things are handled in these companies right now. They’re all answering to anti-democratic governments and threaten our freedom.
in reply to CosmoNova

Ban Facebook first, anti-libre software. They never will. They're not doing this to help us.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to 000

People really are that dumb. We really deserve everything we have.
in reply to takeda

"Nobody I want to follow is using it."

By and large, the average user is a content consumer, not a creator. The consumers want to go where the creators are, but the creators won't go where there aren't already consumers. This will always be the biggest problem for any Fediverse platform.

in reply to takeda

How do you actually sign up? I tried and it said it will send me an email and that's it.
in reply to jaschen

It might take a little while for the email to show up. When I signed up, it was a couple of hours, but it was under a good bit of stress at the time.

Things are going smoothly this morning. Uploads are quick to process, and the timeline seems to be moving along with new content. So YMMV

in reply to Corkyskog

Yes, there is an Android app, but it does need to be side loaded. There is an APK download once you get signed into the web interface.

Similarly, there is a TestFlight for the iOS app.

in reply to stroz

There is Red book and Red note from what I understand... and Red Note was on the Playstore in the US as of 2 days ago when I dl it.
in reply to takeda

I would like Loops to get an influx of users, but this would be too many in one go while loops is not in a sustainable position to support them. The unfortunate truth is that Loops can't handle that level of usership yet
in reply to takeda

It’s really unfortunate timing that loops doesn’t have both an android and iPhone app already out on the app stores. I use the iPhone app thru the beta on test flight. They should just release it to catch this wave?
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to HootinNHollerin

I feel like in it's current form it's more likely to lose lifetime fans than catch them. I would be genuinely surprised if nothing happened to make the experience on rednote worse, and from what I've heard it would be also a valid target of the existing law, so just as easy to shut down.

Also doesn't loops currently just have a fire hose feed of all videos uploaded in chronological order? Seems like it's lacking core features that would make it stick for folks.

in reply to HootinNHollerin

You can't even search by tags. People want to search about a top then follow creators that have more videos they like and not like in loops where you need to visit creators you never heard about and then explore their content
in reply to 000

the real reason why the government tries to ban apps is because it gives an unfiltered look at people the government has tried to demonize for years
in reply to katy ✨

An unfiltered look at, checks notes, a completely censored and controlled people who aren't even allowed to hold up a blank sheet of paper in protest?
in reply to katy ✨

LOL, the irony is that red note is censoring posts from those "tiktok refugee".

It is such a western privilege to think that they can avoid unnecessary censorship and big tech monopoly by moving to Chinese platforms. When Chinese knows full well that they don't have such choice.

To further the irony, the west actually have abundant options to avoid censorship and big tech. Yet people think they are "less usable" than google translating (big tech monopoly btw) your way into a censoring Chinese big tech monopoly...

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to coherent_domain

LOL, the irony is that red note is censoring posts from those “tiktok refugee”.


If they're applying any special moderation to tiktok refugee tagged posts, I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a lot of people say not to discuss politics, but I'm also seeing a lot of posts asking Chinese users specifically about stuff like social credit systems and other weird perceptions or asking about what crazy perceptions Chinese users have about Americans (like that we can work at a restaurant for 3 months and afford to buy a house??).

What's the difference between censorship and moderation in this context?

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to 000

😳😳😳 Westerners not voluntarily giving personal information to the Chinese government for 5 seconds [Challenge Impossible (They caught us)] 😵😵‍💫😧
in reply to LouNeko

They already bought all our info from Facebook and Google so why not?

Besides, what are they going to do with it that's worse than what an American company will?

in reply to Glytch

Seriously, why should I give a shit about that at this point? Any information I put into this app they could easily get from Google.
in reply to priapus

why should I give a shit about that at this point?


I guess we should just all lie down and die.

Honestly, this is one of the saddest and scariest comments I've read in a while.

"I've already had one McDonald's burger that's bad for me, I may as well only ever eat McDonald's burgers! Why should I care at this point?"

in reply to CeeBee_Eh

I agree, it is sad, but your McDonalds comparison is not at all the same situation. I do when possible try to use privacy respecting software. There's a reason I'm on Lemmy. However, I'm using Lemmy from an Android phone. In many situations in everyday life, there is no simple way of avoiding having your data collected. My ISP and credit card companies collect and sell my usage information. I fortunately still have an older car, but when it inevitably dies, I'm gonna have to upgrade to one with an internet connection that also collects information. When my data is already being collected and sold by so many companies, I'm not going to stress myself out by worrying about adding one more, especially when the information they'd gain (my phone number and social media interests) is already plenty available from Google.

In your comparison, you act as if I've chosen to have this and have now given up. In reality, we're in a world where it's often the only option.

The correct answer is proper legislation to prevent and reduce this, because the sad truth is that the large majority of consumers never gave a shit.

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to Glytch

You're forgetting all the companies that hold on to your data forever. Yeah I bought a $4 shenanigan 5 years ago, do you really need to keep my full name, phone, email, CC details, tax number and address, stored plainly in some poorly protected, internet accessible DB?
in reply to Glytch

When they own the platform they can use it to serve you catered disinformation.

They can have your data but unless they can also decide what you see as a result, it's not the same thing.

That's the difference.

in reply to svtdragon

So like Facebook and YouTube serve and spread far-right disinformation catered to manipulate you?

Facebook and YouTube's algorithms decide what you see and Facebook will even decide what's "true" for you.

I asked what they can do that's worse, not the same.

in reply to Glytch

If it's domestic, there's at least some recourse available. Facebook was fined $5 billion for the Cambridge Analytica scandal.
in reply to LouNeko

On some level, it makes sense. Like, if I never plan to enter the PRC's jurisdiction, it has less capacity to use my personal data to cause me harm than a five eyes member state does, because the Australian government does have jurisdiction where I live.
in reply to 000

Replacing one Chinese Spyware app with another. Lmao, it's just so funny to me.
in reply to Murvel

You confused us by saying a race, like you're spreading excuses for anti-libre software.

'Replacing one spyware for another' is clear.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Murvel

A race, like ethnicity, which reduced the clarity of your initial comment.

'Replacing one spyware for another' is more clear.

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Murvel

Exactly, the meaning is much more clear without it.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Autonomous User

You know damn well they were referring to nationality rather than race.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Feyd

Looks like you are trying to troll but the meaning is more clear without that too.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Autonomous User

You're the one derailing by intentionally misinterpreting and being thick about it. Highly encourage you to take a step back, look at this exchange, and think about the point and effectiveness of it all. All I can say is reading it literally made me shake my head and sigh.
in reply to Feyd

You are too obvious now. I will not be replying to you any further.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Murvel

Throwing in the race card is something that wumao are instructed to do regularly.

The fact that, like you pointed out, you hadn't said a single thing about race is a strong indicator that the person you're replying to is a paid troll.

Btw "wumao" is literally "five dimes", which refers to the "50 cent party" who are paid internet commentators with the goal to push CCP propaganda. The "50 cent" part refers to how much they get paid per comment.

Now I'm not saying this person definitely is a wumao, but my guess is that they are.

in reply to aarRJaay

It’s actually worse because the American spyware apps give our data to the government to prosecute us for abortions etc.
in reply to XNX

That's always been my point. China can do less with my data than the UK or America.
in reply to aarRJaay

Well, the American one doesn't have an incentive to turn its own people against its own government with propaganda. As is happening with Tiktok and pushing pro-CCP and anti-American content.

And even if the only concern was spying, it's like saying "well a creep on the street snapped a nude photo of me through my windows, so I may as well take my own nudes and pass it around the neighbourhood."

in reply to aarRJaay

Ah, ok. So we're doing whataboutisms. Got it.

I'll go next: China is pushing its authoritarian influence outside its borders by setting up Chinese police stations in foreign countries like Canada, to put pressure on Chinese abroad from saying or doing anything that would put a negative light on the CCP by threatening harm to family members still living in China.

You're turn.

Edit: for the record, I'm not even American and have no interest in their politics.

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to Maggoty

There have been multiple studies that have demonstrated that pro-CCP content outweighs anti-CCP content by at least 3 to 1. Even on profiles that prefer anti-CCP content the pro content still gets suggested at a 3 to 1 ratio.
in reply to CeeBee_Eh

Surely you'd be willing to share those studies then? Because the only one I've seen was NCRI who didn't make that claim and are hilariously biased.
in reply to Maggoty

No. I'm not doing research for you. Even if I did, we both know you'd either dismiss it or ignore it. I'm a nobody to you and you're already biased against what I have to say.

We won't see eye to eye on this. We simply won't agree. It would just be a waste of my time.

in reply to CeeBee_Eh

I'm not asking you to do research. I'm asking you to show research you've presumably already done.
in reply to Maggoty

I don't keep links to things I've read over the years. You really think I have a folder on my desktop labelled "CCP Propaganda Proof" with various docs and links?
in reply to CeeBee_Eh

I think you should if you're going to make such statements. All you need to do is save your comments where you've used those links. Then you can link to those comments.
in reply to Maggoty

No. I don't "make such statements" as my day job. I'm not trying to prove anything to you. This is the most interaction I'm going to have on this topic.
in reply to CeeBee_Eh

So you just spread misinformation on purpose and run away when pressed?
in reply to CeeBee_Eh

I think you have that reversed. You're the one with the provable position.
in reply to CeeBee_Eh

You want to know how to turn an American against the US government? Tell them, without exaggeration, what their government is doing to them; and tell them, without exaggeration, what other governments do for their citizens.

It's that simple. No lies needed. No american with an IQ above a glass of undrinkable tap water likes their government or thinks their country is worth anything.

in reply to holo

No american with an IQ above a glass of undrinkable tap water likes their government or thinks their country is worth anything.


Complete false dichotomy. This isn't a "my government can beat up your government" squabble.

The reality is that ByteDance has offices for CCP officials in their buildings. The Chinese government has a direct line of influence on the people who work at that company. A government that has openly hostile relations with the West (not even just the USA).

This isn't a discussion about whose government is better. It would be equally inappropriate for a US entity with direct control from the US gov to directly influence Chinese people via an algorithm to push propaganda. The Chinese firewall prevents such a thing from existing or having any significant impact, whereas the opposite isn't true.

in reply to CeeBee_Eh

All of that non sequitur is great, but the fact is no foreign country needs to do anything to make Americans hate their government. Nothing. Except provide a platform that allows free speech.

That's all Tiktok is.

in reply to holo

but the fact is no foreign country needs to do anything to make Americans hate their government.


No one was arguing about making Americans hate their government. The argument is about TikTok being a pro-CCP propaganda tool. That's it.

You keep bringing it back to "hating America", when that was never the point.

What you're saying is actually a typical diversionary tactic that pro-CCP people use. Shift the target of the argument away from the CCP, exactly the way you did.

in reply to CeeBee_Eh

Please read the output of your LLMs if you're going to use them, you said:

Well, the American one doesn't have an incentive to turn its own people against its own government with propaganda. As is happening with Tiktok and pushing pro-CCP and anti-American content.


It's simply not. It's allowing Americans to speak freely on America without government interference.

in reply to holo

Oh I'm sorry. You're right. I shall read my LLMs more carefully. /s

It's allowing Americans to speak freely on America without government interference.


Another way to look at it is that It's allowing anyone to speak negatively about Western governments.

And the point I was making is that TikTok is pushing pro-CCP propaganda; regardless if it's anti-American or not, but that's the part you keep focusing on.

And everyone keeps going on about "censorship from the gov" but the reality is that I see tons of posts, videos, blogs, articles, reels, etc on US based social media that says all kinds of stuff about the US, Canadian, UK, European, etc, governments. It's just so odd to me that Americans are so hyperfocused on "free speech" when I see all that stuff everywhere anyways. Half the time it's literally videos FROM TikTok that are just reposted elsewhere.

The main difference is that on TikTok there's a higher number of wack jobs that peddle garbage like flat earth, chem trails, anti vaxx, etc. The difference is that on Western social media that content usually comes with a disclaimer. The CCP is more than glad to allow that content because none of their citizens will see it. Chinese people can't see content on TikTok, they have a segregated version with completely different content for Chinese users. If the CCP cared about freedom, there would be no segregation.

in reply to 000

Youtube and Instagram tried for years to lure in Tiktok users, and they failed so badly that even with Tiktok potentially getting banned, people would rather switch to a different potentially sketchy Chinese app.
in reply to ryper

That they specifically went to another sketchy app is what gets me the most.

I could name tons of social network alternatives that are decentralized, give users control but for some reason those are sidelined as everyone suddenly wants an account on app they never heard off a few weeks ago and its main selling feature is that is at least as insecure and censored as tiktok..

in reply to webghost0101

It's genuinely superior to tiktok though, the algo rewards like 1% of the ragebait, uncredited reposts, and deceptive posts that tiktok does. If they reverse the ban, I'm not going back.
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to webghost0101

They're looking for a "fuck you" to the US government more than they're looking for a new social media. Maybe it will stick as a popular platform, but I suspect it was chosen more for its name and ties to the CCP than any actual features.
in reply to AltheaHunter

I joined specifically for the fuck you.

I’m staying because I have found the most adorable content ever on there. This one guy does a dead on Trump impersonation and is hysterical, and there is an imperial dynasty of cats on there in full costume that i’m fascinated by.

I wasn’t even this fascinated by tiktok but i’m shocked how much better this is than american social media.

in reply to sexual_tomato

Your catching me off guard but uh sure

  • loops is a new tiktok like app for the fediverse. And probably most relevant. I say probable because i am still uncomfortable with this type of social media so i dont know what people expect or want from it.
  • odysee. Similar algorithm based video scrolling but have not tried it.
  • lemmy, bet you heard of this one before.
  • mastodon, a similar trend of today. People left twittercorp shithole. Had to make a choice between established actual alternative or brand new and empty twittercorp shithole 2.0

If these event thoughts me something its that people actually have no problem changing platforms and websites. Which i previously thought was the case.
Its just seems unpredictable what actual sets a digital migration in motion and to where people will flock.

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to webghost0101

Odysee is more of an replacement for YouTube than TikTok, it has more wider videos, usually more than a minute.
in reply to webghost0101

Some people are saying it's for a particular rational reason. I personally doubt it. It's all the articles saying "people are fleeing TikTok for..." and then they go to that thing. It only took one misleading sponsored article that looked legit to get things moving, then the reporting becomes accurate.
in reply to ryper

Supposedly they're doing it on purpose as a protest. Not just one sketchy Chinese app, but any sketchy Chinese app they can find. In the hopes that Meta and Google will miss them, and the federal government will capitulate to stop them using those apps.

Because apparently they haven't read the bill in question and think banning these apps too will somehow be "unsustainable".

in reply to atrielienz

It's still an act of protest. Even if it will only last a week.

However, XHS has gone through 3-4 major revisions in the past 4 days, they clearly are anticipating sticking around.

It would be so hilarious to me if they build a VPN directly into the app to sidestep the Great Firewall of America

in reply to spicehoarder

lemmy.world/comment/14481177


I saw people in some Chinese source saying XiaoHongShu is updating the algorithm to segregate Chinese users and foreign users (image 1) and hiring English Post Inspectors (image 2) to moderate English contents due to China’s policy

Image 1:

Image 2:

It’s kind of like why there are Weixin and WeChat, Douyin and TikTok, Taobao and AliExpress, Pinduoduo and Temu


in reply to spicehoarder

Prove that. time.com/7207351/tiktok-refuge…

deccanherald.com/world/us-tikt…

forbes.com/sites/jasonsnyder/2…

lemmy.today/post/22321210


RedNote may wall off “TikTok refugees” to prevent US influence on Chinese users


This entry was edited (4 days ago)
in reply to ryper

Ban Instagram, Discord and iOS first, anti-libre software.

They never will. This ban was never to help us.

They do not give a fuck about me or you!

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Autonomous User

And ban smart TVs!

And ban hardware firmware!

And shipping and receiving software!

And proprietary ore mining operation software!

All of it! They don't give a fuck!

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Autonomous User

This ban was never to protect user privacy. It is to protect the federal government from what users willingly give away to foreign social media companies (and only those companies that are in the control of US adversaries). It was never about you and if you assumed that based on what the government said, you deserve to be disappointed. They give only fucks about what the average user can do to hurt them.
in reply to Maggoty

Sigh. That's a whataboutism argument and I'm over it. You do not have to agree.
in reply to atrielienz

Not really. It demonstrates that this is useless and probably not the real intent.
in reply to ryper

I can see the logic. If I used these apps I'd rather have a different sketchy government spying on my than my own.
in reply to Blackmist

My understanding is that nobody actually cares about the data collection, its more of a rebellious move to punish the government for, in their opinion, overreaching.

For the record, I don't agree with that - its just what I'm seeing.

in reply to ryper

Sketchy Oligargh Billionaire App VS State-Run-Sketchy Party-Official-Billionaires App...

Idk... Sounds like loose loose...

in reply to Zement

Party official billionaires are much better than sketchy "self made" billionaires.

Party officials owe their fortune and allegiance to the party, and we've seen some high profile cases of billionaires being brought to their heels very quickly.

Capitalist billionaires are the end result of a selection process that chooses the most self serving, greedy, ruthless bastards.

I'll take #1. Fight me.

in reply to ByteJunk

Party officials made their fortune first and were then forced to join the party, the party doesn't make their fortune. They don't care about people, unless they get either rich or influential, and then uses their red book to reel them in.

China is the most capitalist country on the planet. The only thing they openly worship is money.

Please spend some time there and we talk afterwards, if you stick to your opinion.

in reply to viking

China is the most capitalist country on the planet. The only thing they openly worship is money.


I disagree. What matters is power, and money does grant a lot of it, but in China especially this isn't as direct as it is in the US for example because of party politics.

Party officials made their fortune first and were then forced to join the party, the party doesn’t make their fortune.


That's a very broad assumption, and in some cases is true, some it is not. China has over 1 000 billionaires, over 100 of them are in the parliament, so it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing, they go hand in hand because of the power thing.

Please spend some time there and we talk afterwards, if you stick to your opinion.


Yeah walking the streets of Beijing will give me ample opportunity to meet & greet Chinese billionaires and CCCP top brass.

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to viking

China is the most capitalist country on the planet


What the hell did I just read?

in reply to CeeBee_Eh

Propaganda.

If China were capitalist, they wouldn’t have lifted a record number of people out of poverty, continually be spending on improving public services, and prosecuting their wealthy. Simply participating in markets doesn’t make a country capitalist- it’s how that wealth is distributed or not.

But we’re fed this Sinophobic propaganda in the hopes we won’t notice that China is passing us by, and the average person there is living a far higher quality of life.

in reply to surph_ninja

I'm not being fed sinophobic propaganda, I lived in China for 7 years, speak Chinese, and an married to a Chinese.

Quality of life is by and large alright, but there's a huge disparity between the so called middle class and the actual working class that's in violation of everything Marxist you'll ever read about.

in reply to viking

They absolutely have a lot of room for improvement, and their leadership has openly acknowledged they need reforms to move towards a truer implementation of communism. They’ve already implemented some of those reforms.

But hats off to them for what they’ve accomplished so far. Unrecognizable from the country they were 30 years ago.

in reply to CeeBee_Eh

You've obviously never been there, then. Give it a try and get back to me.
in reply to ByteJunk

I take almost any Chinese party official over an American Billionaire. Rich people had their chance to prove capitalism works, it didn't....

China has shown it jails Billionaires, so their Justice system works better than the one in the US.

in reply to Zement

China has jailed billionaires for going against the communist party's doctrine and gaining power, not for any actual crimes.
in reply to viking

Yes ... but they ARE jailed (or worse). And they all know the Party has shit on them and they still chose to rise. That's their game.... what's the western equivalent? Be born rich, cause literal chemical natural disasters by lobby work and shitty investment decisions and what happens?..... correct... In china they be ded...
in reply to Zement

Between a choice of "you will never be arrested for anything, ever, no matter how heinous" vs "You can be arrested at any time for any reason or no reason, at the whim of your government" I cannot say with confidence which of those is worse.
in reply to skulblaka

Well luckily the straw man you're assigning to China only exists in your head.
in reply to skulblaka

Out of my perspective, one system punishes overlords and the other doesn't. I know what you mean regarding the prohibition on critics of the system / important people / journalism / science ... but if we strictly compare the US with China in terms of billionaire punishment, China wins...

And regarding the massive steps the USA takes towards an autocracy, I would say the other aspects of the argument won't hold up much longer.

It seems like we need to go through this shit to finally get our star trek future.

in reply to ByteJunk

It's the Worker's Billionaire, you western imperialist dog! Stalin did nothing wrong! Dengism forever! I am very normal!

closes hatch on tank and drives away

in reply to 000

i know china's not as bad as north korea when it comes to this sorta thing, but are they really just gonna let that happen
This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to 000

Remember these people are ill. Social media addiction will be studied for years to come. Bashing these kind of people will only push them to these apps and worsen the problem. The more honest we are, the faster this will turn around. Call these people sick to their face and watch them writhe and squirm as they try and justify it. It looks ugly but it will do them a load of help compared to nothing.
in reply to feddylemmy

It's not the same category of social media though.

You've got (sorted by best to worst)

  • content sharing/streaming (Youtube, Netflix, Spotify, Soundcloud)
  • "private" messengers (WhatsApp, Signal, FB Messenger)
  • public messengers (Discord, Matrix, Telegram)
  • forums (Reddit, Stackoverflow, Lemmy)
  • microblogs (BlueSky, Twitter, Mastodon)
  • personality cult (Instagram, Facebook, Linkedin)
  • infinite scroll (Tiktok, IG reels)
  • etc.

Each of these can be called social media, but they serve different purposes and some are more harmful than others

in reply to feddylemmy

False dichotomy, they aren't the same. There is no 'social media' just how we communicate right now. Right now at best it's innocent stealing of our data for enormous profit, at worst - it's influencing us to destroy ourselves or each other.
in reply to Black History Month

People do things on their free time. Stop calling everything people do "an addiction".
in reply to daniskarma

It's just another addiction in our world that encourages over-consumption. If this were just people looking at silly videos nobody would have a problem. It's just another brick in the wall. We should fight for every one that gets put in.
in reply to Black History Month

If making Mr Weebl laugh at my TikTok comments is wrong I don't wanna be right.
This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to sexual_tomato

It should be that simple. What people don't realize is it isn't. That's okay, I'm not mad. I just want to help.
in reply to 000

Is it that surprising that your average person in another country is easy to get on with? I've been to a fair few different countries and the everyday people you interact with are lovely (except France).

It's the fucking politicians you've got to look out for, and not just the foreign ones.

in reply to Echo Dot

Are they really that unwelcoming? I've heard a bunch about this, fortunately never got to experience it first hand.
in reply to rakeshmondal

I have only ever had great experiences visiting france, but then again I avoided Paris for the most part
in reply to rakeshmondal

I spent one day in Paris, let me give you the highlights...

  1. We arrived, left the train station, and were immediately accosted by like 5 people trying to sell us friendship bracelets, or little string bracelets
  2. We left the area and walked to a local Metro station to get across the city, we wanted to check something, so we went to the nearby information section, where the lady refused to speak any English, despite the signage indicating that English was spoken there
  3. We figured it out on our own and entered the station, which smelled exactly and completely of piss
  4. We got off the train and walked along the river for about 10 seconds before being accosted by a conman pretending we'd just dropped some jewelry. Apparently it's a common con. We ignored him and moved on.
  5. We had an ok time for the rest of the day trip, until we got back to the original train station, where we sat in a café beside a family who decided to change their kid's diaper at their table, and then threw the used one to the nearest bin like they were playing cornhole

I'm not in a big rush to go back.

in reply to VintageGenious

"I went to Paris, interacted with basically nobody French, hated it and so now I hate the French"

😂

in reply to VintageGenious

That's not the only foreign city I've ever been to. Paris was the worst one I can think of, or at least top 3.

I'd prefer to go back to any of these:

  • Cluj
  • Riga
  • Prague
  • Emden
  • Frankfurt
  • Brisbane
  • Singapore

Paris goes on a list with Jakarta and that's about it.

in reply to rakeshmondal

Here's the thing - the french motto is Freedom, Equality, Fraternity

They're massively into the equality thing. Whether someone's a waiter, a cleaner, a doctor or a judge, you must treat them with the same amount of respect

The only types of people that I've ever seen saying that the french are rude are the types that think cleaners are beneath them, and that everyone speaks English if you say it loud enough

in reply to Mr_Blott

This is kinda of my experience. The type of people that I see getting mistreated are the "I am le touriste, entertain me!" kind.

Americans especially tend to fall into this category a lot, they tend to be loud, brash and self centered, especially towards staff.

Look here you pot of lard, you bought a 2€ croissant, not my fucking soul. You want something, ask nicely and I will gladly help you. Act like you own me, I'm gonna piss on your food.

in reply to Mr_Blott

This is one of the two factors for the bad reputation of France from US, the other one is the cultural shock that French people prefer genuine conversation and hate small talk, they'd find random american's conversation superficial and faked.

I am neighboring France and we have kinda similar culture, though people here tend to dislike some French people for their lack of patience or accountability and their pride, though it's a stereotype, as always.

in reply to essteeyou

It's funny that I've never had bad experiences with the French and most of my visits to France were to Paris.

Then again I do speak French and try and take advantage of being over there to exercise my language knowledge in it as much as I can.

In my experience people almost everywhere (well, not in English-speaking countries, probably because English is the present day lingua franca so it's kinda expected that you can speak it) generally appreciate you trying to speak their language even if you're pretty bad at it and just trying to learn the local "good day", " goodbye" and "thank you" will get you a lot of goodwill.

in reply to Aceticon

Except in the Netherlands, where your risk a response of “I’m not your Dutch teacher, we will speak English”. (Actually happened to a former colleague of mine.)
in reply to Fiona

I've lived in The Netherlands and they're "complicated" if you're used to, for example, English-style of politeness or even Mediterranean-style exuberance.

They tend to be very direct, objective-oriented and seemingly cold/closed towards strangers (they open up more with friends and family), so for example if you're in a work environment and one person's trying to do things in broken Dutch is hindering the actual accomplishment of the work objectives (for example, in a work meeting), that will probably be pointed out to them, though I've never seen it done so rudelly.

They also tend to be pretty proud of their English-language speaking abilities and when you're just learning Dutch and try to speak to them in it, often switch to English when they spot (from the accent) that somebody comes from an English-speaking country (so for me, who am Portuguese, they didn't tend to do it and I could just silently ignore it when they did because they couldn't be sure I actually knew English, but I had friends and colleagues over there from Britain, US and Australia who constantly got that and for whom it was a lot harder to learn the local language), though I don't think that applies in your example.

It bet that happenned in a professional environment or some kind of professional situation.

That said, that specific telling off would be considered rude even in Dutch terms: if a person's attempts at using Dutch are hindering doing the work, one is supposed to tell them that as the reason to switch to English (say, "other people are waiting behind you in the queue" or "we don't have time to do this meeting in Dutch", though one will probably not get a "I'm sorry but" or "I'm afraid that" or other such decorations to soften the blow which you would get in most other countries. In that quote of yours the other person making it about themselves "I'm not your Dutch teacher" and just bossing the other person "we will"(!), would be considered rude even by Dutch standards IMHO.

Personally (and note that I lived over 8 years in the Netherlands and do speak the language), had somebody told me off like that my reaction would probably be to not give a shit and carry on speaking Dutch since that person made it about themselves and I'm just as entitled to do it the way I see fit as they are to do it their way and I very much suspect (can't be totally sure) this reaction comes from that part of me that are the elements of the Dutch mindset I've taken in from having lived there so long (certainly the whole "I'm just as entitled to my preferences as you to yours" feels very Dutch).

During the period when I was starting to learn Dutch on various occasions the other person switched to English (probably because my Dutch was really bad or I was having trouble following them) and I just kept on speaking Dutch, and I think I was once or twice told off for trying to say something complex with my really broken Dutch whilst buying something and I was holding the queue, but they simply pointed out I was holding the queue.

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to 000

I'm surprised most didn't go to lemon8, since that is also bytedance it will just be banned too.
in reply to arararagi

So you're surprised people didn't switch to the app you think will be banned?

Are you using the word "surprised" right?

in reply to 000

Dumbest shit ever. let me run to the PRC for my entertainment. Like was TikTok really that good? I never used it, other than the time long ago when it was first getting traction and my coworker asked me to get into her 12 yr old daughter's account (super easy BTW) and see what she was doing on there. surprise! nothing but 30 year old men following her and watching her doing dances. I never touched it since.
in reply to shiroininja

nothing but 30 year old men following her and watching her doing dances.


This App is truly a swamp of shit.

in reply to Roflmasterbigpimp

Surprise! Pedophiles are everywhere! Even in the Fediverse!

Though that doesn't excuses anything, though.

in reply to shiroininja

Tiktok shows you more of what you engage in and throws some randomness in there so you don't get stuck in a local minimum. It's like when YouTube's algorithm kinda worked and you could see how it'd possibly be better; bytedance actually pulled it off instead of enshittifying.

And it takes time for the algorithm to learn your tastes. If you're a mouth breather at heart you're gonna get mouth breather content no matter how much you try and change it. If you're a perv and linger on thirst traps... You're going to see more thirst traps.

With your described scenario, that's not unique to tiktok- that can happen on any platform when the child is unsupervised. It could have been twitch, Roblox, Instagram, Snapchat, it myriad other platforms; the real problem there is inattentive parenting.

I've learned about more shitty local government practices from tiktok than any other platform. I've been exposed to points of view I'd never otherwise see. Random videos have triggered just as much progress on my mental health as years of therapy. I've found people far more articulate than me explaining shit that combats my family's far right talking points in a way where they actually listen and change their mind, and vice versa.

I've also consumed an inordinate amount of white hot memes and mountains of brain rot lol

But yeah. The TT algorithm is a mirror (given time). It reflects your persona back at you with the type of content you see.

in reply to sexual_tomato

I failed to see the randomness then because it's way too similar content way too quickly
in reply to VintageGenious

It does get stuck in a rut sometimes. If you kill the app and come back to it lsome time ater, that signals that they need to shake things up so your "randomness factor" (my term) gets boosted the next time you start scrolling.
in reply to sexual_tomato

So having a coworker break into your child's account is inattentive parenting?

Tell me you don't have kids.

No really, please confirm.

I don't want to see "kids in cages" on the news again.

in reply to frayedpickles

I have kids. I don't see how that's relevant here.

Children shouldn't have social media accounts in my opinion. Nothing to attack or break into if it doesn't exist.

A coworker shouldn't know enough or otherwise have enough access to your child such that they can break into their accounts.

Failing all that, parents need to have frank discussions about the potential dangers of internet fans turning into real life people, and some of the more severe potential consequences.

Even without those three layers of failure, your kids need to know about basic online account security, like using unique strong passwords and two factor authentication.

That all being said- I don't know the people or the situation. But from your short account of things that's what I see as wrong with the situation.

In general, the social networks of today are optimized for extracting value and attention from adult brains; an incomplete adolescent brain stands no chance.

Kids can still socialize electronically just fine in group chats with the advent of RCS implementation on both major phone platforms.

Not sure what kids in cages have to do with anything or why they were mentioned.

in reply to sexual_tomato

Kids in cages is mentioned because penetrating your kids' social media account is a break of trust and privacy, which is a very bad form of parenting, a good parent would have trust relationship and could ask the child to show the weird behavior on their phone
in reply to shiroininja

what do you expect though the USA is picking groups of people to threaten, the American dream is dead they brag that the economy is doing so good when most peoples lives have gotten worse every second of our lives is being monetized of course the people will look elsewhere
in reply to trilobyte81

Don’t worry. Once Trump’s back in, the Democrats will suddenly notice we’re in a recession. We’ll start seeing it acknowledged soon.
in reply to surph_ninja

Dems showed last election they're not even willing to promise concessions to their voting base, so if you can't actually do anything to help people afford groceries, how can they use the economy to campaign? Just go "Trump is terrible for the economy! We're gonna be good for the economy"?
This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to alcoholicorn

Yep. They really seemed to believe they could gaslight us into thinking the economy is thriving. But you can’t trick people into forgetting that they’re hungry, and food is unaffordable.
in reply to frayedpickles

Food unaffordable, homeless rate at record highs, a struggling job market, etc. But the Biden team insisted we’ve been doing better than ever.
in reply to 000

Remember when it was called musical.ly and everyone thought it was the cringiest thing ever and wished it would die…. Lol
in reply to Dancermouse

So TikTok isn't strictly covers with flying text anymore? Jesus I'm out of the loop on this.
in reply to 000

This is a fine example of how the american government doesn't care about the interests of americans.

The government only exists to serve the wealthiest among us. Some of those wealthy people are upset that Chinese aristocrats are getting all that money.

This trade war only exists because rich americans want more money for themselves. It has nothing to do with national security and you're a useful idiot if you think otherwise.

in reply to john89

It has everything to do with national security, they just don't consider common people as part of their nation same as slaves weren't.
in reply to pressanykeynow

Yeah, national security for the rich, they don’t want us plebes getting any ideas about what real justice looks like.
in reply to john89

You don’t lift 800+ million people out of poverty by concentrating all of the profits among a small few. And China has increasingly been prosecuting their wealthy.

Which is what they really don’t want us learning to do.

in reply to surph_ninja

Yeah you do it with slave labor, genocide, mass aborting baby girls, and IP theft.
in reply to surph_ninja

Why would I need to, these things have been known for decades?

Don't get me wrong, capitalists (ex apple) love to collude, but it doesn't make china some magical perfect land.

in reply to frayedpickles

Yes, the intelligence orgs have been spreading lies for decades.

China isn’t perfect, but most of the scandal news we hear about it is fabricated by our government. Even our own government has now admitted they made up the Uyghur genocide claims.

in reply to LH0ezVT

law.stanford.edu/press/state-d…

What they were actually trying to combat was China preventing the US from continuing to radicalize and use the Uyghurs as a front for regime change operations.

in reply to surph_ninja

First, thanks for actually following up!

About the actual statement:

The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide


I believe that "technically, we cannot prove it's genocide, just crimes against humanity" is still a pretty clear and bold statement.

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in reply to LH0ezVT

They’re putting their spin on it. In reality, the State Dept has been trying to radicalize and train the Uyghurs as an extremist front to destabilize the region. China has been working to detain, de-radicalize, and rehabilitate the extremists.

Even in their own spin, the State Dept does not imply any loss of life or mass casualties.

in reply to surph_ninja

Capitalists use the same exact argument for why outsourcing labor to the poorest countries is actually a good thing. For real, I’ve argued so many right wingers saying “searching for the cheapest labor actually helps the worlds economy because you’re lifting those poor people of _____ out of poverty! It doesn’t matter that it’s only pennies/day, because to them, that’s a lot of money!”

Pretty goddamn gross behavior.

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in reply to TheFriar

Outsourcing is extracting wealth from another nation. How can you possibly compare that to lifting ones own citizens out of poverty?
in reply to b000rg

You can't untangle the outsourcing of manufacturing to China from that.
in reply to b000rg

I wasn’t making a 1:1 comparison. I was saying that “but look how many people have been lifted out of poverty!” argument is a capitalist argument, because it completely ignores the reality of the situation. Have people been lifted out of poverty by outsourcing? Of course. But that doesn’t negate the core problem.

As the other person mentioned, outsourcing manufacturing TO china is largely responsible for the manufacturing boon there. And then rich Chinese capitalists (though they use the cover of not being called capitalists) became rich middlemen between “western” businesses and the cheap Chinese labor. So outsourcing has absolutely contributed to it. You and the American capitalists are looking at the same thing, one is crediting American executive innovation, the other is crediting the CCP.

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in reply to b000rg

Exchange isn't extraction. If you're buying raw materials from Africa, yes. If you're buying finished goods from China, no.

This is precisely why the US had a sudden about face about China. They were hoping their entryism with capitalist exchange would result in the fall of the communist party, who number one priority is preventing the plundering of resources through unequal exchange.

in reply to surph_ninja

You do it by exploiting the billions outside your borders from countries even more poor like mine where they sell their garbage low quality products that cant be repaired or recycled, from shitty earphones to bikes that start breaking down in a year, taking advantage of poor people who cant afford to buy anything of better quality. China isnt better than us when it comes to exploitation and inequality.
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in reply to gubblebumbum

Hold up. You think the Chinese are the ones deciding to manufacture low quality products, and not the capitalists who are ordering them that way?

They are spreading their wealth to those in need. Not exploiting. They value mutually beneficial relationships.

https://x.com/Hammonda1/status/1787061224062013553?mx=2

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to surph_ninja

Hold up. You think the Chinese are the ones deciding to manufacture low quality products, and not the capitalists who are ordering them that way?


Chinese brands owned by Chinese capitalists operating with consent from the chinese state.

spreading their wealth to those in need


Using planned obsolescence and taking advantage of poor consumer and environmental protection laws to sell garbage to people trapped in a cycle of poverty isn't exploitation? Also China 'invested' billions here too and we didnt get any hospitals. We got china flooding our markets with its shitty goods and chinese 'businessmen' running scam centers.

They value mutually beneficial relationships


they do have a mutually beneficial relationship with our dictators.

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in reply to gubblebumbum

I love that capitalists attacking communists always end up accidentally attacking capitalism. Classic.
This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to surph_ninja

China is a capitalist shithole but for some reason its biggest defenders are always self proclaimed western communists.

edit: we also have a few militant communists groups that like to blow up chinese nationals working for their govt every now and then.

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to gubblebumbum

What exactly do you think “capitalist” means? Because it sounds like you think any participation in markets is capitalism.
in reply to surph_ninja

I think dengist policy introduced a capital holding class to China and that the workers don't have democratic control of the workplace.
in reply to captainlezbian

Fair nuance there, but they seem to be taking reform seriously. But we’ll see if that keeps up.
in reply to surph_ninja

China is a capitalist country with aspects of socialism. it's not really communist anymore.

No one here is shitting on communists, were shitting on you for a thinking the Chinese are any different than us.

in reply to surph_ninja

What do you think “capitalist” means? It sounds like you think it’s just market participation.
in reply to HertzDentalBar

What do you think “capitalist” means?

I don’t think you know, because by definition there cannot be “alot.” That’s the whole point of capitalism- to concentrate the means of production into the hands of a very few.

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in reply to HertzDentalBar

LoL. You really are just parroting propaganda, without any clue what the words you’re saying actually mean.
in reply to surph_ninja

I think the Chinese businessmen are exploiting slave laborers to produce cheap goods and export them to most of the world. Would you call that a mutually beneficial relationship?
in reply to surph_ninja

Chinese manufacturers build according to budget. They are perfectly capable of making high quality products, and do. The problem is a lot of companies (looking at you, Walmart) demand their Chinese manufacturers build products for a pittance -- the manufacturers won't say no, but they'll find a profit for themselves by using lower cost materials. (ETA: also less quality control and cheaper labor)

Ask yourself -- if you were a woodworker and someone offered you $250 to build a small stand out of wenge, you'll probably do a good job of it. If someone offered you $30 to build the same stand, and you really needed that $30, you'd make it with pine and just paint or stain it to look like wenge. Chinese manufacturers are no different.

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in reply to surph_ninja

you don’t lift 800+ million people out of poverty by concentrating all of the profits among a small few.


This is false attribution.
There's no way to verify how other political system would have worked for China. Maybe it would have worked even better? Taiwan for one is richer, stronger and happier than China per capita so does that mean dictatoriship -> democracy is a better system? Do you see the flaw in this attribution logic now? So, unless you have a time machine...

This entry was edited (4 days ago)
in reply to Dr. Moose

Actually it’s very easy to know. By design, capitalism concentrates most of the reward among a small number of privileged few.

And people with good sense judge a country by how well it’s working people are doing- not by how much more wealth a few people have been able to hoard.

in reply to Dr. Moose

Taiwan for one is richer, stronger and happier than China per capita so does that mean dictatoriship -> democracy is a better system


Everything in that sentence is factually untrue, I need to get some of the stuff you're smoking because it must be crazy strong.

There’s no way to verify how other political system would have worked for China


It's very easy to know. India and China have similar landmass, population, and got their independence at around the same time.

The difference between the two is that China's people democracy is an objectively superior system to bourgeois dictatorships they have in India and Taiwan.

It's ridiculous to compare mainland China with Taiwan, as that island is incredibly small and therefore much, much faster to develop, and it received a lot in investments from the USA as they need a strong ally at the PRC's borders to support their hegemony. Look at south Korea for another example.

in reply to Pili

  • Taiwan GDP per capita: 36,000 USD > 12,500 USD of China
  • World Happiness Report Taiwan places 27th > 64th of China

Do you want me to keep going?

The difference between the two is that China's people democracy is an objectively superior system to bourgeois dictatorships they have in India and Taiwan.


And how do you determine that? By feeling the vibes? There are way to many variables to attribute all success to a single one. It's just not scientifically testable. I'd like to point you to this brilliant economic nobel prize award of this year that did use science to prove the effectiveness of political systems in a way. This is sort of scientific proof we need to really understand the value of these political systems but until we have evidence like that or a time machine we might as well be yelling at clouds here.

in reply to 000

So one Chinese spying platform is worse than other Chinese spying platforms.

I mean, it's interesting in the sense of something big being really honestly banned in USA.

That seems to have been a part of Russian, Iranian, Turkish etc Internet experience.

But I still want back the days where we'd talk about programs and services, not platforms.

There's a program you can use to communicate to other people, it, of course, communicates to a service, but the protocol is small and already reverse-engineered, and you can use a hex editor to change the hostname or addresses it communicates with, even if hardcoded. Nostalgic ICQ sounds.

Or - there's a service you can use to find pages and files. There are hundreds of such, you can host one yourself. You'll have to dig through a lot of things you don't need and build your queries carefully, but there's no platform playing with your life. Just the Internet, and one of thousands of machines scraping it. Yep, it's big and most things there you don't need.

Or - there's a program you can use to have nice online communities. I didn't even know that Hotline and KDX existed when I was a kid. But if I knew, I would be even happier than it was in fact. No platform. Someone hosts a Hotline server.

There was also such a program that allowed you to navigate hypertext pages leading to other pages leading to other. And there were services which would serve such pages over the Internet to you and many others, and accept changes. People who think today's Web is in anything nicer than that Web - they simply don't remember how it was then. It can't be really felt by looking at archives of old personal pages and such, of course those look weak, they are a specter of the past. You need to go over web rings and read recent updates, by real people for real people, visit guest books and web chats and forums, see that world alive. Unfortunately I also remember how I wanted to be able to make that even more alive - via technical means. Like trying to live in a video game. That was a mistake many people made, apparently, and ruined the real miracle by pursuing that dream.

in reply to 000

The hexies are so excited about this too. They've got a thread up (erroneously) hoping that Americans will now stop believing that Chinese people are bad, because they can't face the truth that Americans (who aren't magats) only think the Chinese government is an authoritarian shit show and have no problem with regular Chinese citizens.
in reply to tigeruppercut

Solidarity amongst the working class, no matter what imaginary made up boundaries divide us.
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic

Exactly. When workers start talking to each other across borders (national and otherwise) and as equals that's like one of the crucial steps for positive change. No worker in China ever denied me medicine or raised my rent.
in reply to tigeruppercut

Xenophobia and racism exist in America outside of the trump ultras. Hell, outside of the republican party even
in reply to tigeruppercut

Thank you for vigorously following Hexbear to spread misinformation about it on .world. Defederating really helped clean up the narrative.
in reply to 000

It's really cool. The people are super nice and welcoming. The cities are incredible. Their cost of living is leaps and bounds better than ours. Life is affordable there.

They just got it better. The cold war propaganda we've been spoonfed from birth was all lies.

We are the bad place.

in reply to RangerJosie

Yeah, sure. Just because one team is bad doesn't mean the other is good. There is a lot of poverty, exploitation and general shit happening "there".
in reply to LH0ezVT

They've eliminated extreme poverty and are on track to eliminate poverty. Given even the poorest citizens don't worry about rent or medical bills or food costs, their poverty looks incredibly different to that in the US.
in reply to holo

Yeah they eliminated poverty the same way they defeated COVID... By just saying they did and people like yourself slurp it up without a second of critical thought.
in reply to RangerJosie

Friends of mine lived a year or so in China. It was very harsh and the people were not very welcoming. That's not strange as people tend to be like that towards strangers immigrating. But it's no utopia you can fit into easily.
in reply to RangerJosie

Their cost of living is leaps and bounds better than ours.


Crazy how effective this propaganda is. Median Chinese salary is 5 USD/hour. Now 5x every chinese price you see to get really cost and revisit your comment.

in reply to Dr. Moose

China is a gigantic country, larger than the USA, that was still aggrarian just 50 years ago. They are still developing and there is a large disparity in earning between the developed coastal areas in the east, and the undeveloped west. The prices you see on the app a from the coastal areas where salaries are similar to western Europe.
in reply to Pili

No it's not and it's incredibly easy to verify so I don't understand why would you just lie. US salaries are incredibly high so very few countries can actually compare and coast China definitely doesn't.

I can speak from experience in tech sector how incredibly tiny Shenzen salaries are even today compared to everything else as I get recruitment offers almost every week. 60k/year is basically peak salary you can get as a senior software dev compared to 100-300k in US.

Here one source says avg annual income in Shenzen is 24,000 USD vs for example Denver of 94,157 USD — 4 times higher and that's Denver not San Francisco which would be the mirror of Shenzen.

I'm not an american or chinese but I know how to read data and it's pretty fucking clear here.

in reply to whyalone

Literally no difference between that and Lemmy.

It's all social media and all has the same effect on us

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in reply to SoftTeeth

You can't really infinite scroll on Lemmy for hours watching content specific to your tastes.

You might get five minutes per day of mildly interesting content on Lemmy

in reply to GrumpyDuckling

Lemmy kind of sucks, that's why I like it. Reddit to me was like beer and Lemmy is like non alcoholic beer. If stop drinking a non alcoholic beer is fine, but I don't really need one every day.
in reply to Camelbeard

yeah that is definitely part of the appeal!

another part is that the self selected crowd is a bit... cooler

in reply to whyalone

I don't like it either, but these fuckers clearly do, so at least they're doing it in a way that isn't basically a bunch of governments spoon feeding what they want Americans to think to them
in reply to 000

I hope that west taiwanese citizens will realize just how bad their government is.
in reply to Sorgan71

...by seeing how shit is lives are in comparison?

I don't think you understand how many centuries behind China the US is.

in reply to Sorgan71

Except homeownership rates, poverty rates, homelessness, illiteracy, class mobility, workers rights, prisoners prisoners per capita...

The US is one of the worst countries given it's comical amount of wealth, usually coming in at rank 40 or lower by pretty much any stat you choose... Except gross GDP, the number of prisoners, the number of proper capita, the number of slaves working for private corporations, and maternal mortality rates. That's where the US excels that China simple can't compete in, arresting people, forcing them to work for profit for companies, and killing women in child birth.

in reply to holo

Most annericans aren’t ready for that conversation. That’s why Trump won in the first place.
in reply to Sorgan71

Dude, this is what the US wants you to believe. Actually the USA is a third world hell hole. I'm from Europe and I'd rather live in China than in the USA.
in reply to rimjob_rainer

You are not an american or a west taiwanese citizen, your estimation of either country is meaningless.
in reply to 000

This might have an interesting side effect. Western voices and opinions being shared enmasse with Chinese youths on platforms they're comfortable with. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese government responds to this
in reply to SpikedPunchVictim

I'm on the app and, honestly, I have been seeing the exact opposite. Loads of American users are seeing, for the first time, that folks in the PRC don't have it so bad.
in reply to TrueStoryBob

Consistent problem with fascists who want you to hate outsiders. When those barriers fall, it turns out that most of the "enemy" are just people who want to live their lives.

This goes both directions.

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in reply to frezik

But the Chinese people were never the enemy. The only ones who push that narrative are people who want to sow division and hatred.

It's the CCP and US government that are at odds with one another. The issue with TikTok is the CCP has control and influence over content served to Western uses.

in reply to CeeBee_Eh

This. There is a reason why China has been censoring the internet so much, and why Russia and to a lesser degree Türkiye started doing it as well. And why two of the three most powerful people in the US apart from Trump control like 2/3 of all social media.
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in reply to LH0ezVT

Hmm, let's not do that. I wonder what should be written on the casing for Musk's?
in reply to rimjob_rainer

That's easy. Some more propaganda about hating the everyday Chinese person (who we have far more in common with) and banning the app.
in reply to 000

I thought the difference in humor would take a while to bridge but it's very familiar. Day in the life of an american type videos with road rage, burgers, shitcoins, podcasts and pancakes
in reply to 000

I’m amazed at all the CCP dick sucking here. It’s like I stumbled into r/Sino

操你中國政府

in reply to Dupree878

Yea, I made a post to my people to come to the fediverse. While we have capitalist and communist forums, ultimately the fediverse sits in the anarchist camp.

I like it because I'm suspicious of tankies and hate musk fucks. A nice 3rd option.

in reply to meep_launcher

Anarchy, because have you met people? Those fuckers can't be trusted with power
in reply to captainlezbian

Can't trust people. People listen to Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. Can't trust em.
in reply to Dupree878

Can't stand the no freedom of speech, but I understand they can't have it because that would become a CIA backdoor to overthrow their leadership and also winnie the ping has let state capitalist run rampant. Ringing the lifeforce out of the populace in a way that would make Jeff Bezos proud, and erect. But you can't deny that, for an expansionnist fashistic budding empire, they do have their shit together and trains running on time and so on.

I'm starting to think the usa military won't be able to kill them all in a day and then starve everyone by sinking all their food and oil ships.

in reply to werefreeatlast

Turns out we know we're all being spyed on constantly and don't really care what authoritarian shithole (US or China) is creeping on us

We care more about the content of the app.

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in reply to HoMaster

You should, my wife is one of these folks and she's having a very eye opening time.
in reply to shastaxc

Surprised by how much is in English, but also surprised that China isn't the hellscape that we've been fed through the media. It's middle class people in both countries talking about real things in a completely new way.

One thing that surprised her, everything in China isn't just cheap crap. It's american companies that cut corners by ordering crap and shilling it to us and then blaming China for it being cheap. China makes quality products, but the US will never see them, and so we live with the perception that everything from China is crap, but only what we don't tariff to death makes it through. It's cool to see her perceptions of the world change.

I'm not some tankie, and I don't give a shit about tik tok, but there's a massive cultural exchange happening that's too huge to filter off the rip, and I feel like folks are realizing there's a lot more that unites us than divides us. Our billionaires don't like their billionaires and so we beef? Nah, not my fight

in reply to SlamWich

Americans figuring out that Chinese people are also just people like them is the most hilarious and american thing I read in a while.
in reply to LoudWaterHombre

Considering the distance between LA and NY is roughly the same as Turkiye and Portugal, we do tend to get a little single-minded in the experiences of others. But learning more about the world is never a bad thing. America is cooked
in reply to LoudWaterHombre

I agree, but as an American it also doesn’t surprise me at all. Dehumanizing others is one of the top tactics to make awful conservative policies more palatable.
in reply to SlamWich

China isn't the hellscape that we've been fed through the media


China has been really showing off hard in the past few years, especially on tiktok. Chinese cars are winning and every single person on Tiktok knows about Chongqing. So I don't think this is as apt as it used to be.

I'd love more cultural exchange with China but it's really up to Chinese themselves. Literally all west media and apps are blocked in China. So should we converge on a clear propaganda app which is litterally named after the little red book of communist revolution as our "honest cultural exchange" source? Does anyone seriously think that's a good idea?

We have Lemmy, Mastodon, the whole Fediverse, bluesky, Telegram, Nostr — the free options exist already, it's up to Chinese to get some balls to meet us midway.

in reply to 000

Man, Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts must be really shit if the TikTokers didn't even consider them for a second lmao
in reply to LiveLM

Instagram has a shit algorithm, yt shorts are generally just worse forms of yt or reposts from ticktok/insta. People are willing to tolerate a lot of data selling already, so why should they care that it's being shared with the CCP?
in reply to Scrollone

If you carefully cultivate your subscriptions and watching habits it's not bad. I get mostly stuff I'm subscribed to, a movie cut into thirty second chunks (right now it's Braveheart), tv clips with one of three pieces of music overlaid, a mix of benign recommendations that are mostly meh but sometimes funny, and thirst traps. So... it's not good but I do sometimea see something worth following.

It used to be worse, I think abandoning guntubers was the right call. I used to have Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson pushed at me.

in reply to LiveLM

IG reels are utter garbage for the most part but Youtube Short would actually be good if Youtube had the balls to separate it from Youtube itself as it's always limited in that regard.
in reply to 000

Just proving US government right tbh.

So, US said: "TikTok is too powerful and has too much influence" and then people continue to be influenced. I kid you not, most trending rednote tiktoks right now are about price comparison between China and US with topics like: "veggies are like 2$ in China when they are 6$ in the US" with absolutely zero awareness of how economies work:

  • median hourly salary in the US: 27 USD
  • median hourly salary in China: 5 USD

Chinese vegetables are more expensive.

You could attribute this to people just being financially stupid but I think there's definitely some truth from US government pov that China has a lot of propaganda power over US citizens and I say this as non-american myself as it's quite apparent as a 3rd party observer.

Personally I still think low level laws that protect privacy of all americans is the way to go but America will never sacrifice free market money like that.

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in reply to Dr. Moose

The only video like that ive seen was showing how cheap a day of vacation in china would be.

The app is obvi not a bastion of unbiased free speech. This is reactionary and even if tiktok were banned on the 19th, people would be put off by using an app where you cant understand 80% of the comments and some of the more subtle content. Its a protest.

This entry was edited (4 days ago)