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god this makes me SO PISSED OFF. FUCK apple

Mike

2026-04-15 21:04:13

mastodon - Link to source

Another reason to hate #Apple We're seeing more 2018+ MacBook Pro/Air donations — but Apple's T2 chip means even after iCloud sign-out and reset, the firmware stays locked to the original account.

Without donor contact, these machines are useless. 🙁

I've upcycled ~1,000 older Macs, but T2 era machines will end that. It's controlling, creates e-waste, and will only get worse. #righttorepair matters — Apple couldn't care less.


mastodon - Link to source
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Another reason to hate #Apple We're seeing more 2018+ MacBook Pro/Air donations — but Apple's T2 chip means even after iCloud sign-out and reset, the firmware stays locked to the original account.

Without donor contact, these machines are useless. 🙁

I've upcycled ~1,000 older Macs, but T2 era machines will end that. It's controlling, creates e-waste, and will only get worse. #righttorepair matters — Apple couldn't care less.

#apple #righttorepair
in reply to Marianne

mastodon - Link to source

Mike

@noodlemaz Apple will just shred it.. so it's "recycled" for the metal.. but they're not re-using it.

In my experience, it's best to wipe it, then set it up with a new local account with a dummy admin password.. then put it as a sticky note on the keyboard.

If you plan for it to be useful again. You don't need an icloud password, just a local admin password.

Hope that helps!

@Marianne
in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

sidb has moved to mstdn.social

@ottaross But I *love* that thieves are disincentivized, just like with iPhones.

If I understand, you need the original user to remove the lock before donating, but they don’t know? I wonder if Apple could build in a feature like “contact this locked machine’s registered account holder and ask if they’re really done with it”. Then I could approve if I really donated/sold it, or click “absolutely not, brick it forever w/o my password” if I didn’t. (Hmm, how could that be abused?)

@Ross of Ottawa
in reply to Ross of Ottawa

mastodon - Link to source

Martin

@ottaross @sidb They won't do it because a lot of thieves contact these users afterwards.
Idk if you've heard, but basically when you get your iPhone stolen, it ends up in China often and the thieves get your phone number from your SIM and harass you until you unlock the device.
If you include that feature, it can go either way, but Apple has to do it in a way that doesn't incentivize "I'll give access to whatever thief says he bought it off a market and is entitled to use it".
@Ross of Ottawa @sidb has moved to mstdn.social
in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

adacosta

The sad part of this too is most #Apple Macs post T2 might not be suitable collectors items because of this. I own a lot vintage era #PowerBook G4's and G3's and there were times where I might want to reinstall OS X. Doing that is next to impossible on devices like this. Not to mention, even pre-T2 machines, if you don't use them for a while they lock you out requiring resetting the password through recovery.
#apple #powerbook
in reply to Cassandrich

mastodon - Link to source

IShaderDeviceMgr

@dalias @oscherler
Well, you're still probably getting dropped in EL1, so you're not truly free. The freest device you can buy is a used Chromebook, as they use Coreboot, so you can just compile and flash your own firmware. Thanks to the weird CR50 TPM thingy, if you've got a SuzyQAble, you can even get RW access to the AP firmware and a serial console without having to open the device, provided you run a command and assert your presence (once) with timed power button presses
@Cassandrich @oscherler
in reply to Victor Oxyrhynchus

mastodon - Link to source

🐈‍⬛David Sommerseth

@Victorsigmoid @magnetic_tape
Have you looked at the price for the T203 unlock kit? AliExpress has them for $275 and upwards.

Probably makes more sense when recovering quite some devices. But nothing likely what someone does for a 2-5 Macs. And then you need the appropriate hotglue gun and a functional Mac along side to reprogram the T2 chip.

Might be worth it if you got a pile of macs which the OP picture shows.

But it is clearly not good for the ability to repair/fix used machines. Quite good for device security though.

Just wondering if this approach renders previous data completely unreadable or if it's possible to scrape off data from the device somewhere in this process.

@Victor Oxyrhynchus @Jonas
in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

lj·rk

I do appreciate that T2 chips make my macBook basically not a good target for thieves though: They by know understand that stealing these devices is not worth it and don't even attempt.

But it will take time until donors understand that they need to do EACS, which is quite simple:

support.apple.com/en-us/102664

But this isn't widely known yet. There's been some people who had luck with going to Apple Stores and providing some kind of guarantee that these are donated pieces but it's a hassle. But for such a big stack, buying a T203 would potentially make sense, could perhaps even be part of a hacker space's tools.

Erase your Mac and reset it to factory settings - Apple Support

Use the Erase All Content and Settings feature to quickly and securely erase all settings, data, and apps, while maintaining the operating system currently installed.
Apple Support
in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

MikeD1112

Suspect you are talking about two different things. For a machine owned by an end user, removing the iCloud account and performing a factory reset absolutely makes that Mac available for activation and use by a new user, T2 or no. However, if the device is owned by the end user’s school or employer and enrolled by that organization to their device management, they would have to unenroll it.
in reply to MikeD1112

mastodon - Link to source

blturner

@miked1112 you have to specifically remove the iCloud account using these steps, logging out of iCloud and reseting the device is not enough. it's a (purposely?) confusing end user experience. support.apple.com/en-us/102773

What to do before you sell, give away, trade in, or recycle your Mac - Apple Support

Reset your Mac to factory settings to prepare it for the new owner.
Apple Support
@MikeD1112
in reply to MikeD1112

mastodon - Link to source

Mike

@miked1112 nope. I've seen this personally too. Where I had a t2 mac mini. I signed out of iCloud, deleted it from my account, and reformatted the machine.

I gave it to a friend, who wanted to open the boot security to install Linux but needed my apple password to it.

I've had people donate to me with the same issues. It's crap.

If someone deletes the device from their iCloud account, you should be able to unlock the bootloader. Google does this easily with chromebooks

@MikeD1112
in reply to Ankh-Morpork Parks and Rec 🌱

mastodon - Link to source

Mike

@coreysnipes it really breaks my brain. And it's just starting..

The ONLY solution seems to be this super long and complicated procedure of literally unsoldering the t2 chip, directly reprogramming it, resoldering it, and then hookign it up to another mac in DFW mode,etc.. HOURS of work just to use a machine you own

@Ankh-Morpork Parks and Rec 🌱

reshared this

in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

Kevin Karhan

this shit needs to be *OUTLAWED by #RightToRepair as it created 100% avoidable #eWaste and demolishes #ConsumerRights!

youtube.com/watch?v=e3e-b-7jCY…

Astonishing Anti Repair Practices By Apple In the Last 15 Years

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
Hugh Jeffreys (YouTube)
#apple #eWaste #righttorepair #consumerRights #antirepairdesign #antirepair @European Commission @Wirtschaft & Energie
This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)

reshared this

in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

🇨🇦 Maverick ✊🇲🇲🇺🇦🇻🇪🇬🇱

@bigzaphod So your problem is that Apple is prioritizing the hardware and data integrity of THE OWNER and the owner did not properly unlock the device before it was recycled (or stolen). Sorry, but that doesn’t sound like an Apple problem. As an owner, that is what I want.

I understand that I sucks to be in your position, but Apple is doing the right thing here.

@Sean Heber
in reply to Mindiell

mastodon - Link to source

Toke Riis Ebbesen

@Mindiell @maverick604 @bigzaphod In fact, @maverick604 is absolutely right. Apple absolutely doesn't prevent the reuse of devices, you just have to reset the device before handing it over to a new owner. It is as easy as going into Settings > Reset > Follow guide.

Also, most Macbooks lasts longer than the average laptop, so their first owners benefit from their computer longer.

@Sean Heber @Mindiell @🇨🇦 Maverick ✊🇲🇲🇺🇦🇻🇪🇬🇱
in reply to Eric Jennings

mastodon - Link to source

Mike

@HitokiriEric @coldclimate but here's the rub for me. Even if a user logs into their iCloud account and removes the device from their account, it still won't release.

That should be illegal.

Even enterprise locked Chromebooks can be decommissioned remotely and unlocked.

There is no reason this cant be done with apple.

@coldclimate @Eric Jennings
in reply to Mike

gotosocial - Link to source

aura, disgraced heretic

You can remotely remove a machine from activation lock, but "deleting" the machine from Find My does not do that. I've done this incorrectly with a work T2 machine that they had unlocked by Apple after I left instead (with invoice and such), but it still sometimes checked in to my Find My (with the new user's hostname no less, good engineering apple) until I actually removed it properly.
in reply to aura, disgraced heretic

mastodon - Link to source

Henry

@aura @HitokiriEric @coldclimate Had a new Mac with a line of dead pixels. Apple support kindly guided me through reset and removal from my account while connected to the internet. Exchanged for a new one. A couple of months later I get a notification that the dead pixel Mac has been added to my Facetime and such … I was able to verify because I kept the serial number screen shots.
@coldclimate @Eric Jennings @aura, disgraced heretic
in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

Eric Jennings

@coldclimate

Hmm… for the hardware firmware I’d still want to have to unlock it on device rather than having an attack surface/backdoor from the internet to exploit. Apple had the issue a couple years ago with thieves exploiting the remote password change to workaround the phone protections.

But I get how it sucks for this use case.

Like a lot of things, for 99% of users who don’t care they should default to a version that’s secure from most thieves but not totally secure from government and then let the users who really care opt in to the stronger lockdown mode.

@coldclimate
in reply to Eric Jennings

mastodon - Link to source

Nullstring 🏴‍☠️

@HitokiriEric @coldclimate i havent read most of this thread, but i read up to this point and i dont plan to read any more after writing this reply here, but i just want to say, the way you talk about people is extremely infantilizing.

Like a lot of things, for 99% of users who don’t care they should default to a version that’s secure from most thieves but not totally secure from government


i think like 99% of things you have a hard time with people because you see them as helpless baby sheep who need a nanny for lacking your superior intellect. and yeah im gathering all of this from reading on reply of yours on a website... but honestly dog i feel so confident in this assessment that i am quite sure i wont be the one thinking about it in an hour.

@coldclimate @Eric Jennings
in reply to Eugene Glover

mastodon - Link to source

Mike

@LoneLocust on more than one occasion i've had a user go through ALL the steps to clear the computer. And yet.. even with all that, I still can't unlock the boot security without a local admin password.

The only thing that seems to work is for someone to wipe it and then set up a dummy account.

But you have to be a motivated user to do all that. Most people are just going to toss it to donate it. Or inherit it, etc.. thats a huge percentage

@Eugene Glover
in reply to Nicolás Alvarez

mastodon - Link to source

ARGVMI~1.PIF

@nicolas17

That means the Mac's firmware is talking over the Internet without going through the operating system.

That is a colossal security risk. That's how you get viruses that are impossible to remove and impossible to prevent infection by.

If that's what Macs are doing, then old Macs no longer receiving security updates should be treated as the security equivalent of a biohazard and disposed of promptly. Don't even think about actually using them.

@LoneLocust @codemonkeymike

@Mike @Eugene Glover @Nicolás Alvarez
in reply to Nicolás Alvarez

mastodon - Link to source

ARGVMI~1.PIF

@nicolas17

Then there's no fail-safe recovery method if the operating system gets bricked.

Also, that means you can't use the hardware without first booting macOS and signing over your firstborn. There is no “I decline this license agreement; I will run this other operating system instead” option.

That is an unserious computer.

@Nicolás Alvarez
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Nicolás Alvarez

mastodon - Link to source

ARGVMI~1.PIF

@nicolas17

Then there's no fail-safe recovery method if the operating system gets bricked.

Also, that means you can't use the hardware without first booting macOS and signing over your firstborn. There is no “I decline this license agreement as I consider it unfair; I will run this other operating system instead” option.

Definitely gonna have to look elsewhere for my next laptop, then. That is not acceptable.

@Nicolás Alvarez
in reply to ARGVMI~1.PIF

glitchsoc - Link to source

Nicolás Alvarez

@argv_minus_one Regarding bricking, I don't know for sure how it works on T2 systems, but on Apple Silicon systems you can always restore macOS from another computer via USB, no matter how badly you screw up the flash storage contents (which is better than Intel PCs where recovering from a corrupted BIOS can be much harder).

Regarding the OS license agreement, I believe you're correct.

@ARGVMI~1.PIF
in reply to ARGVMI~1.PIF

mastodon - Link to source

Eugene Glover

@argv_minus_one @nicolas17
I’m *guessing* that the problem is happening when a machine is already signed and associated with a iCloud user. Apple is probably refusing the sign a new OS download without proof of ownership.

Arguably (really, arguably) that’s not an unreasonable position. If my machine is stolen, I don’t want someone just to wipe in and go on, but if I donated it to charity, that would be a different story. How is Apple to know without my say so?

2 of 2

@ARGVMI~1.PIF @Nicolás Alvarez
in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

aglimme

@Epic_Null @Gargron I totally agree that there should be a mechanism to totally unlock the machine, this however, sounds like a great way to harass someone. Steal their laptop or phone, then constantly ask to unlock. Seeing that pop-up over and over would be so annoying. Also laptop theft from cafes where I live is definitely a significant issue. Just want to point out that there are legitimate reason to brick hardware.
@Eugen Rochko @Epic Null
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