A significant factor in the effectiveness of Western propaganda against China lies in the psychological tendency for people to accept their circumstances more readily if they believe that the situation everywhere else is worse. Even merely considering the possibility that China might excel in a certain aspect opens the door to questioning the superiority of the Western system.
Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i it's obvious that you have no intention of engaging with reality or actually understanding China, you're basically providing a concrete example of what I'm talking about in my original comment.
You've convinced yourself that China is just as bad as the west, and this helps you cope. It's kind of sad really.
Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •yianiris likes this.
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •yianiris
in reply to Yogthos • •There is a fallacy here and it is not very communist like.
The standard of living of all people on earth to rise to relatively healthy level (not exactly the use abuse and discard of the "west" but healthier nutrition than 90% is having, healthy living conditions, safe and healthy working conditions) we are facing with probably 200% rise in industrialization. The raw materials' and earth resources to achieve this are by far not there, they appear to be there because only 20% is enjoying the results of current industrialization, the rest work to produce them.
Who decides whether the improvement of std.living (material conditions) is secondary to man's exploration of space for the specific reason of bringing materials from space to earth? It is a metaphysical dream or poet's dreams that such thing may happen.
An authoritarian idealist/religious dreamer will enforce sacrifices on others (not the ruling elite) to make the ideal reality. So not only non-communist thinking but I'd say anti-communist thinking.
The current economical system, even this of China and Russia is based on an artificial bubble of global virtual banking. Governments place the public into deep long term debt, borrowing from the future, to subsidize economic elites today. This debt has reached and passed sustainability, sp they are borrowing from a planet that is lifeless and a desert. If this debt as current "value" can't be repaid then this wealth is driving extinction, and every day faster and faster, nearer and nearer.
Social, environmental, psychological conditions of the population are part of "material conditions", it is not just food and shelter. I'd say we have reached an all time low, where we are in the verge of either driving an earth destroying global war of west and the rest of the world, or an instant melt-down of the economic bubble system. Either are a massive population reduction option.
The only people who successfully left capitalism and are doing well are the zapatista communities who have enjoyed true communism/communalism for the past 31 years, despite of the war the Mexican and US government have been engaged in against them.
The fact that vanguard marxist/leninists refuse to deal, explain, acknowledge this fact is because it is very much against Marxist elites, not all Marxists, and especially not all dialectical materialists.
The only thing we can all agree on is this hymn
youtu.be/3bZzM4s0Hgs?si=n9Pk0d…
@Yogthos @Heretical_i
Heretical_i
in reply to yianiris • • •@yianiris
"Who decides whether the improvement of std.living (material conditions) is secondary to man's exploration of space for the specific reason of bringing materials from space to earth?"
The technocrats decide, no matter the sociopolitical system. We DO NOT NEED TO 'mine asteroids'. We need FOOD SHELTER etc.
Your politicians ALL BE LIKE Arms race peace race space race "At the same time, our people grumbled for more nylons and washing machines"
getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5cf9882c-… Fuck COMPETITION
At the same time, our people grumbled for more nylons and washing machines.
YarnPopolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •But need for oil reduce with time. More and more things depend on electricity. If oil is very efficient, oil in car due to several factors is less efficient than oil, due to the means to get it and transport it. China has developed the planet widest electric railway network.
If today batteries are unacceptably heavy for using large number of huge cars for transportation, it's more interesting for train and light cities cars, bus and light vehicles. Most China scooters are electrical since about 15 years now. The production of renewable electric energy is just insane in China, and will progressively, as in Europe, replace any current oil based things, with more efficiency.
In the area of batteries China that make 80% of planet ones, dirty and rare elements are gradually replaced by more clean and easily available ones.
The same way their orbital station, as most artificial satellites use plasma, where the ISS, based on old Soviet Mir station, use more heavy combustibles. Most of rockets that reach ISS are still Soyuz and Progress from soviet era too, still launched in Kazakhstan's base Baikonuur.
There are lot of cooperation between Europe and China, to make progress, even if they are both partially blocked by USA stupide stance. Chinese cars manufacturers will start to build factories in Europe, where they was closed by European and American industrials. Progress in science of both part is exchanged. In both case, there is a hard work to make cities greener. They are not like US vision of pure concrete cities without trees. Walking in China large cities is very calm with their large green parks, trees rows and reduced noise due to a large electrical vehicle part. As soon a motorbike go through a street in Paris, nobody can hear friend speaking, or birds in trees. They are gradually pushed out of the cities.
At the opposite, I believe the idea to recover a rocket as Musk do (and few Chinese now also do) is totally stupid, it's more a ad. show for "technological superiority" than a real advantage. Launching things in space is a fight between weight (of used charge and energy charge). adding the charge to get back the rocket make the rocket a lot heavier, and so less efficient. There is few chance, that the part or the rocket that come back will be used, after the damage of a fly.
CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network
Heretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •yianiris likes this.
yianiris reshared this.
Heretical_i
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Don't know where your information come from. I never seen photovoltaic solar panels at mountaintops, and traveled all around China, they are mainly in desert, and on roof top, beside caloric solar panel (for hot water), as said before. There are lot of little sized photovoltaic panels in top of streetlights/roadlights too, with sometimes a mix of wind-turbine+photovoltaic panel.
Mountaintops have windturbine instead, as in most Portugal's mountaintops.
As said previously too, main flood of rivers are in south of central China, and it's long time problem. Building lot of dams, reduced floods a lot in this area, and provide huge electric power.
Sadly whole planet in general have more and more floods in moutains valley, but that's not related to any kind of solar panels at all.
Heretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •- YouTube
www.youtube.comHeretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Chavinism bores me.
China has the last vestiges of the industrial revolution because it makes and sells consumer products to consumer societies whose economies will collapse in short order and take IT'S economy with them. End of oil coming soon and NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVE that doesnt destroy the planet too, in any foreseeable future. They'll REALLY REALLY WISH they never diverged from Mao's worldview.
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i seems like the problem will solve itself when western economies collapse. For what it's worth, I too wish that China did not become a consumerist society.
I was very happy living in USSR without consumerism, but sadly many people were not and that system got overturned because people wanted to have shiny things westerners had.
China would've followed the same path as USSR had it not made compromises.
Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i Taiwan's not really representative of the rest of China. Also worth noting that China has been moving away from relying on consumerism as the backbone for the economy. The role of private sector continues to decline.
piie.com/research/piie-charts/…
Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •My whole life is as structurally different from the average western industrial human as is possible. I havent owned a tin box with wheels for almost 30 years, by choice. Went from Class A tractor-trailer license to NO class voluntarily. Sick of it. Cars are a SOCIAL DISEASE ISOLATING US FROM EACH OTHER. I live outdoors 365 days a year (the climate here allows it, rarely going to freezing, but I'm well equipped). They call it Homelessness, but THAT is a State of Mind. @yogthos
You were saying?
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •You LIVE Revolution, with an analysis, or you have empty words, hypocrisy, and a cult following a 'leader'. What some MARXIST said in the 1960s about having to be an 'absolute heretic' to have any effect. You WALK AWAY from the dominant society and build your own better one... "singly or in groups" @yogthos The guns and insurrection thingie is IN DEFENSE of that Revolution created. That was the part the Hippies forgot
In Roszak's Making of a counterculture. Too busy to get the pullquote atm.
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Im living the dream @yogthos in the belly of the beast. My whole life has been dedicated to volunteering and mutual aid and I'm sorry your dogma got run over so you resorted to ad homs and denigration.
Ps. "Borders" are the problem, b/c in today's world theyre literally artificial creations. It's ez 2C what happens when they 'undo'. EX-Yugoslavia/EthnicCleansing as people return to land that was birthright and other people have been placed there by economic and other socially engineeed factors.
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i seems like it's your dogma that got run over given that you're the one who started getting abrasive and shitting on what an actual existing socialist state is accomplishing.
Anarchists dedicate their whole lives to finding ways to cope within the horrific capitalist system, but continue to fight with people who suggest meaningful ways of achieving systemic change.
Using purity tests to attack existing socialist projects is one prominent example of that.
yianiris doesn't like this.
yianiris
in reply to Yogthos • •@Yogthos
This is baseless anti-libertarian propaganda. Baseless because libertarian communists (aka true anarchists) reject vanguardism, so it would be unexpected for them to fight against others who fight in the same front with them. On the other hand few fragments of Marxists share this rejection of one single party vanguard. The loose area of autonomists have various blends and flavors of both extremes of anti-capitalism. In real life and experience you find more Marxists spilling poison and being bitter about anarchists than the other way around. There are exceptions and variations to this by geography, where in the US there had been period of cooperation and respect for one another, they had learned to work with each other in some communities of historic struggles, and places like N. Spain and Italy where Marxists would rather kill anarchists first before they engage the true enemy, due to recent and not so recent past experiences.
You can't expect anarchists in the old "bloc" to be very tolerant of Marxists, as they can not possibly be convinced that there are any other forms of Marxists than the fascists they experienced.
The political maturity of the zapatista communities is centuries ahead of what we "prisoners" have, and they look at us with petty for being so immature and probably hopeless.
There is a dialectic synthesis, if you are a true Marxist and not a pet of some party, you will see and find it, or at least seek the synthesis instead of chasing a dead beat bankrupt vanguard down the rabbit hole of history.
Bankrupt not of its own wrong doing, but by remaining idle in the attempt of the capitalists to drive it into bankruptcy. The classic rhetoric may still be for sale, nobody is really buying, because marketing forces dictate what ideology consumers should shop for.
anarcho-individualists sell very well, they are almost promoted by mass media culture, and we know why, because they are totally harmless to the capitalist. They may be harmful to anti-capitalists ...
@yianiris@libretooth.gr
@Heretical_i
Yogthos
in reply to Yogthos • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •yianiris likes this.
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •China’s issuance of US dollar bonds to bolster ties with Saudi Arabia
Kandy Wong (South China Morning Post)Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Collaboration with capitalists🤣 Trade embaros and other bullshit are just red meat for both side's slaves to be indoctrinated with in their me-dee-unhs and affect otherwise possible social relationships with citizenry on both continents.
Speaking of slaves, when WILL Chinese companies be held accountable, like american companies should be, for offshoring their shitwork for the west to sweatshops in other nations @yogthos ?
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i reshared this.
Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Heretical_i reshared this.
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Sure. Liberal. 🤣 I'm the liberal who gets in cops faces calls them nazis then explains exactly why they are publicly while exhorting folks to do the same when they're harassed. Sure. You misuse the term Liberal discussing my analysis and actions. I'm SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR MY COMRADES, Dude. Leading, WITH A SOCIALIST ANALYSIS, AND WAY OF LIFE.
So what do YOU do besides code and pontificate about geopolitics @yogthos ?
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i what systemic change have your actions contributed to? Getting in cops faces might be satisfying for you on a personal level, and make you feel like you're doing something, but it doesn't change the direction of travel of the society as a whole.
Meanwhile, I'm not the one sealioning into your threads to pontificate.
Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •I didn't accuse you of sealioning but you're making a lot of assumptions about the direction my analysis leads, without any historical cites. I'll let Uncle Ho speak for me here. Theory IS NOT the driving force... Patriotism... You know, to community first, then outward, is.
Ho Chi Minh with East German sailors in 1957, Stralsund Harbor Germany.
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i I don't think we have any disagreement on that. Nowhere have I argued against organizing communities and building grassroots power.
What I'm saying is that solidarity with existing socialist states is also important. Even if they don't pass your purity tests. Whatever you may think of China, it provides direct support for socialist projects around the globe. China is the primary reason Latin America is currently shaking off US influence.
Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •I agree with this entirely, and I know you can't just stop the trajectory of industrial societies, but I do ponder on that riddle, "If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?". I posit at some point some cohort said GO BACK! THIS WON'T WORK!.
I'm with them😎
Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i I appreciate the sentiment, unfortunately capitalist ideology actively seeks to eradicate anything that's incompatible with it. As long is it remains the dominant force in the world, no alternative ways of development will be tolerated.
The only thing I find notable about BRICS is that it's not ideologically driven. If BRICS can succeed then there may be potential for different types of civilizations to emerge going forward.
Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •In archeology, industry means a typical production industry in a specific society. We can speak about industrial revolution with coil powered steam machines, but most societies have an industry.
CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network
Heretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •Yogthos
in reply to Yogthos • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Yogthos • • •This speaks to an industrial society issue. Namely that homogenous societies are the best candidates for Revolutionary social change. Identity and personality politics in industrial society's media prevents their citizens from finding common ground. That's why it's important to find common ground with your neighbors, then build networks of like minded people ...
An example just came to me from my FB feed. Welcome to the first Brit Rainbow Gathering 😎 newscientist.com/article/24615…
Stonehenge may have been built to unify people of ancient Britain
Michael Marshall (New Scientist)Yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i • • •@heretical_i sure it's what Marx and Engels talk about as well when they say that capitalist mode of production ends up forging the proletariat that ultimately takes up arms against capitalists.
Unfortunately, it turns out that people will accept incredible amounts of abuse before deciding that their conditions are unacceptable.
Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Stonehenge, as most monumental pre-celtic stones things we still keep from French Britain and Britannic islands are generally made for today, winter solstice, to celebrate death. There is often one or as in Stonehenge, a lot of, tumulus, around. There are a lot if Iberic peninsula too.
They are the oldest building we still have on earth, with at least one in Turkey older, and probably some in Syria/Libanon/Palestine currently bombed by fascist and racist Israelis). A
CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network
yianiris
in reply to Yogthos • •The problem with economies being dependent on exports to a market under US/UK/FR control, or part of their economy being foreign multinationals extracting/manufacturing/transporting, while depending on debt markets to borrow for "development" .. any move towards independence brings immediate bankruptcy and poverty.
@yogthos @Heretical_i
Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Do you mean that paying taxes are like holding state capital? This is a bit strange point of view to compare things that are only to get financial income, and developing schools, hospitals, gardens, electrical network, transportation and other essential services.
CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network
Heretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •Heretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •111.699 Aufrufe · 2.707 Reaktionen | GLOBALink | Spherical robot joins police patrols in China | China's police now have a new support: a spherical patrol robot that can hit 30 km/h in just 2.5 seconds. Inspired by a concept originally in Mercury... | By
www.facebook.comchilly branzino ☭
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Heretical_i
in reply to chilly branzino ☭ • • •Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to Heretical_i • • •Warning, there is a US remake of "The Prisoner", but it lost all interesting aspects of the original one, and is just totally stupid and uninteresting, couldn't look at it for more than 10 minutes. Looked several time the British series.
CC: @Nimbius666@comp.lain.la @yogthos@social.marxist.network
Heretical_i
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •That has to be bad @Popolon @Nimbius666 @yogthos
See archive.org/details/the-prison… All episodes. There are quite a few detailed analyses of it in the intertubz wild.
The Prisoner : Patrick McGoohan : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Internet Archiveyianiris
in reply to Heretical_i • •Oil less agriculture is going on in China more than any other place in the planet, so when all else fails they will still be fed, and those that are fed best will survive a war longer.
Still only 30% of the labor force is somehow connected with industrial production. The other 2/3 live in a different China, very much like the 70s.
The western war machine is very oil/energy dependent. The whole model would collapse given a massive oil shortage.
China opened a conditional door to western capitalism to come in and produce wealth (from exploitation), a different approach than in the SU where overnight they transformed the political elite into a new capitalist class. China opened the door and capitalism flowed in, to a great gain for China, obtaining the infrastructure and know how of western industrialism. Then they soaked western debt as value gained. This is all good under the assumption western capitalists would be willing to lose in their own game, and they are not because for a few centuries they never played fair in any game they were involved in.
But have the Chinese been wrong, or are they dumb? Or did they just accelerated the collapse of capitalism by throwing extra fuel into an already uncontrollable fire? I am speculating the political elite in China was able to foresee the problem developed for those who are unwilling to foresee anything instead of getting more cash today. And greedy capitalists couldn't care less about anyone's future. Their governments are not allowed to worry, they are paid to serve and protect.
yianiris
in reply to Yogthos • •Would Taiwan be under control of the invading Chinese if it wasn't for the US passing it on to the emperor in 45 then supporting this pseudo country against the will of the natives?
Taiwan is purely a product of US imperialism and anti-communism. The native revolutionaries were aiming for a democratic government and redistributing land equally among the natives. Instead, what they got was a racist military regime, treating the indigenous Taiwanese as slaves, that lasted for decades while all resources were sucked by a few families in the proximity of the exiled emperor. Before Japan's surrender in 1945, Taiwan was under a Japanese occupation.
"A developed country"
@Heretical_i @Yogthos
#taiwan #china #japan #ww2
#European Imperialism
yianiris
in reply to Yogthos • •Remember the story I wrote that got me banned from the environazi mastodon server?
Where you run an electric generator with fossil fuel, roll 400mi of wire round trip to a plant 200mi away, charge a battery and then go drive/ride you e-vehicle, and this is perceived as efficient and "clean" since the pollution is 200mi away? That is how much sense e-vehicles make, as in most parts of the world 85% of electricity is made from fossil/organic fuel/burning.
Some marketing idiots sell the lie of how efficient electric plant steam generators are, because unlike your car or small generator they can contain heat and make the most out of mechanical energy. Partially true, but mechanical to electrical still lags, then you have tremendous losses of power during the transport, resistance, transformers, (all producing heat/noise) ...
If you have been in a forest with very high powered lines going through you know that is the only thing you hear, not birds or roaring water.
Yogthos
in reply to yianiris • • •yianiris likes this.
Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉
in reply to yianiris • • •Most efficient powerplants are dams, not nuclear plants, among ten top powerplants there are 9 dams (from all around the world, China at top followed by several South-America countries) and only a Saudia gaz plant at the bottom. Now photovoltaic panels and windturbines are very efficient and reduce by iteration their hard to find materials. The same for batteries.
Beside the fact that a car is a really inefficient vehicle (in term of energy) in general, oil vehicles are far less efficient than electric one, if we count the whole energy production or mining to last bit of usage chain today. I agree that huge electric car is not a good choice (and small plane start to come), but electric trains/tramways are very efficient. In Europe cities, we start to use more and more battery aided bicycles since about 4 years, so still a bit of sport, but you can go to a place like office without needing a shower. They are sustainable (but a bit expansives in Europe). In China, they massively produced electric scooters since 15 years ago, and you can see some hundreds parked in line on some cities streets. This is far more efficient, than 2 tons vehicle to transport one 80 Kg people alone :(. Electric trans, tramway, trolleys, and in last bus, etc are more efficients.
CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network
yianiris
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉 • • •There is little to compare in environmental destruction after huge dams and industrial agriculture. Open-pit mining comes as a distant third.
In the world's largest natural habitat of salmon the US has built 5? nuclear powerplants (Columbia river) but they say radioactivity is well below "safe levels"
Only Iceland is more volcanically active than this area.
But US oil/auto industries will have you believe that electric vehicles are the solution.
@Popolon @yianiris@friendica.world @yogthos
yianiris
in reply to Yogthos • •The deforestation project so extensive the value of lumber went as low as it would cost more to transport it to port than its price. So they decided to just burn it instead as it was more economically feasible. The fires were large enough that the smoke was visible from satelite/weather imaging, just plain visual.
The primary market for bio-diesel was NW Europe, particularly Be-Ne-Lux, Germany and France. The consumers think they benefit the global environment and the climate that way, not using fossil fuel. In reality straight bio-diesel is very hard to consume in a diesel engine, it is most commonly dilluted with diesel and only 5-10-20% is bio. The rest is dinosaur juice. It also doesn't like very cold weather as too many solids form and clog filters.
This is western environmentalism for you. A tropical rainforest destroyed for the market of an illusion to alternativism. Capitalists will make profit with child labor producing Che Guevara t-shirts.