When a #neurodivergent person tells you about how something is difficult for them, rather than thinking of them as whiny, consider that this probably means they have a certain level of trust in you to drop their mask enough to do so.
Invalidating that struggle is likely also a pretty effective way of eroding that trust.
#ActuallyADHD
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reshared this
Kevin Davy
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •sonja
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Sensitive content
#actuallyautistic @autistics
Kevin Davy reshared this.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •it’s so exhausting, you choose your words correctly and they ignore them and insert their “interpretation,” instead. It’s like talking to the cat. 💜
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Energetic Nova
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •💜
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
It's more profitable for them to "interpret" (distort) than to try to understand. Becomes habit, they do it to each other without thinking. Discard the words and keep their twisted idea of what they meant.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •if it wasn't all of them, you'd call it debilitating paranoia 💜
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Frequent enough to show a pattern. (I try to not fall into "Us vs. Them" language with my psych, goes without saying.)
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
issues with misinterpretation? i was way on the autistic side and my ex was wayyyy on the adhd side and they *always* misinterpreted everything i said, even after multiple conversations that i mean what i say
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •gawd, I don't know, I only hatched as Autistic a few years ago . . .
.
I've been thinking of Autism and Allism, NTness as opposites, I think I've heard something about people otherwise ND but still Allistic, still not Autistic
.
I suppose there could be both sorts, all combinations
.
that's all I got, I hope someone has better 💜
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to sonja • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •@autistics @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn
Used to misinterpret often until my twenties but got better at reading people (normies mostly, really). Misinterpretation was an entirely different pattern from the NT one, though.
(Still w/o formal diagnosis here. Personal certainty at 80% for ADHD, > 50% por autism; other things not at all clear but comorbidities are common; late-blooming trans, FWIW, and there are correlations with that.)
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I'm self assessed, and I'm quite sure about Autism, but I'm starting to consider ADHD. I hadn't, because I'm not hyper, my sibling was the hyper one, but I'm starting to be open to it.
sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Same. Never could decide if it was closer to an ADHD or autistic trait. See? There's the overlap again.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
living with someone w undiagnosed adhd for over a decade has 100% allowed me to discern that i definitely absolutely do not have any features of adhd.
the amount of chaos that a person w adhd has to live with to function has allowed me to definitively learn that i never ever ever ever want to have any sort of relationship with an adhd'er again.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Has to live? Hmm. Confirmation that we ADHD fuckers are widely different from each other. I must tolerate my chaos because I cannot control or reduce it, but it hurts me a lot. I lived in ordered environments and didn't become nonfunctional. Autistic need for certain stimuli notwithstanding.
Not defending or justifying anything, just illustrating the AuDHD spectrum.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Never did really calibrate my personal requirement of these inputs. I think I can manage with sort of an internal generator of novelty, variation, distraction or whatever it is.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
down (and fall asleep amazingly)
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
AFAICT that interaction does not usually happen, and I have sensory processing issues that cause me to... malfunction. (Had something close to a meltdown last month during a very noisy, chaotic meeting at a place that had become dark. Not getting visual cues as to who was speaking was the last straw for me.)
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I put myself to sleep like that once, when an acid trip went scary, an emergency shutdown button is handy sometimes
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Now that you mention it, that is what happens to me when I smoke weed above a certain dose. If I remove myself from social stimuli, I fall asleep like a baby. Way easier and cleaner than with alcohol.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I need weed for sleep, but also to be awake.
.
that experience was almost fifty years ago, I thought I was having some real brain event, I wasn’t sure I was going to wake up
as myself, I couldn’t think two words together, thought I was, uh, fragmented. 😬
.
Happily woke up OK. 👍
I mean, that’s my opinion, LOL.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
stuff like that happens to me a lot where things bother me but seemingly do not bother other people. then i start spiraling and panicking because i dont understand why it bothers me and no one else. then i end up feeling guilty because it bothers me. then i start having a meltdown because im feeling insane about the whole situation.
the autistic shame cycle strikes again!
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
"What's wrong with these people?" Yeah, I know.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •yeah, I had one high energy older sibling 😬
sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
sonja
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Sensitive content
i would not be surprised if the dsm combined it all under neurodivergence in the next version *but* i still believe that adhd and autism is far less related than what people actually want it to be.
one good point, autistic people are bottom up thinkers on the whole while people with adhd can be either top down or bottom up. you already have a significant difference in thought processing that can lead to multiple misinterpretations and other issues that cause interpersonal strife.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @autistics @punishmenthurts
Hmm, definitely bottom-up at heart. Learned top-down later and fragmentarily. And yes, it is at the root of miscommunication a lot of the time, even between NTs.
Energetic Nova
in reply to sonja • • •Energetic Nova
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •@Energetic_Nova @emily_rugburn @autistics @punishmenthurts
Hell, I really wasn't up to speed with these. Still learning at close to 50 because they cut us off from each other. (No, I'm not bitter, what an idea.)
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to sonja • • •Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷 • • •@Tooden @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
"I got mine, fuck you" is the rough version of that.
Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
Energetic Nova
in reply to sonja • • •Energetic Nova
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •sonja
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •Sensitive content
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •I want to use the R-word for the shock value, I want to say, Watch for my next blog, "R-worded by Violence," and I'm serious about it. It should be paranoia, but the same type that's paranoid really is dangerous to everybody, so it's complicated, but that's how I would like to classify them, disabled by their "strength."
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I find that so, so frustrating.
When I speak, the message is in the fucking words. Not the microcues. Not the body language. Not the tone. I'm verbal.
And yes, it's pretty useless around neurotypicals.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •the very stuff we have to listen to them bragging about in school, how smart humans are to have spoken language!
.
Drives ya nuts. 😠💜
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
Yeah, humans. Don't you know that we mutants don't really belong to the species?
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •it was surely true at some point, we do have spoken language, but it’s one of those sci-fi stories where they’ve forgotten how it works 😀😠
.
glory days 😜
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •My theory is that we evolved as a second locus of power in a tribal society. You had the leader, who maintained power through charm and violence. And you had the gender-queer medicine person who was respected as a thinker. When the leader was about to lemming the tribe off a cliff, the medicine person would intervene. And the leader knew to back down.
Just my $0.02
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Agnostic about that hypothesis (actually, fuck me if I know how to get evidence for or against it) but sounds entirely plausible.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I just make shit up, but I'm pretty good at it.
I've been doing my own thinking all my life. I've got a head full of state secrets, and nobody ever told 'em to me. I never signed no NDA. I just figured that shit out on my own.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •it doesn't necessarily fit in my system, where we were here first. And so far, it seems their type show up in charge, not taking advice from anyone, but
.
if that scenario ever happened, warrior king with an Autistic prime minister or consigliere, it would suggest that when the warriors showed up, some of us foolishly thought we could keep them and use them
.
and I was fantasizing that the Neolithic people understood at least breeding if not evolution, and would know not to do that
.
😲 😂
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •We end up with allists in power because the ones willing to hurt others in the pursuit of power usually aren't autistic.
None of the autists I know show the slightest draw to power. The most I can say is that we're driven to find influence by a sense of injustice.
An autist will (in my limited experience) gladly give up a position of power (e.g. give a patent away or give up copyright) if it benefits the world.
@Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
punIssuer reshared this.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •It's a common trait among autistics that we won't lift a finger to defend ourselves, but get ferociously defensive of people we care about.
I've never gotten in a fight, I've never punched someone who wasn't willing, and I've come close to killing five men for threatening people i cared about.
Woulda got 'em, too. The only reason they're still alive is that I checked myself. It's not who I want to be.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Fuck me, so that's an informal diagnostic criterion for autism too?
I've upped my estimate again. Will ask about getting evaluated soon.
NoBorg
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to NoBorg • • •@punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
Poloniousmonk
in reply to NoBorg • • •I'm inclined to believe it because he's such a shitty liar.
Selling a lie is a skill we tend not to possess.
But there's a distinct possibility he's just using that as an excuse for being a fucking asshole.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •yeah. If I had to pick, I say he’s Allistic, but if not, what’s the difference?
.
Does that make being a billionaire Nazi an Autistic trait? If he pursues severely Allistic goals with all of his resources, does it matter if he’s masking, only pretending to be that?
.
I mean, this is personal, I have exactly this going with my ex family, they never loved me because I’m a weirdo, it was always obvious that my in laws strove to be seen as normal
and to be popular, it’s what they live for, but after they disposed of me for imaginary Allistic crimes, now they are all self diagnosed Autistics, and what’s the difference to me?
.
I mean, I hope I’m the last Autistic these heavily masking Autistics destroy.
.
A few famous people masking doesn’t mean it’s not a hyper Allistic thing to be what he is. People mask, people don’t know, one name means nothing.
NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •and I agree with Mux, usually that’s the case, aggression is more of an Allistic trait than an ND trait, I have written whole books and many blogs and a thousand toots saying that.
.
I’m saying it would be less usual for an Autistic to want that much power, but it surely happens sometimes. And again, we’re talking about types and big data, one dude doesn’t prove anything or mean anything.
NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •I was just wondering because Musk has hurt a lot of people and he said he was autistic. So, we have to watch out for prejudgements and don't assume that only a certain type of person can get to high power positions or hurt others.
We all are human, autistic or not; we all are capable of good and bad :/
Nobody is better or worst than others, we are just different.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to NoBorg • • •I think we have more range than neurotypicals. When we're good, we're awesome. But when we turn to the dark side, we can be some of the most evil motherfuckers out there.
My grandfather was.
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •I know I've got one evil motherfucker who lives in the back of my brain. I never let him sit in the pilot's seat, but he hates every-fucking-body.
I've always assumed everybody has one of those, and not letting him be in charge is just a basic part of being an adult.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @DziadekMick
Of course. It usually doesn't fucking pay to violate social norms, not to the point of violence and crime. And if you don't have practice it's a sure thing you won't go unpunished. Yeah, that's pretty basic adulting, alright.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @DziadekMick
Yes. Some people will understand nothing but violence.
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •I've got one evil motherfucker who lives in the back of my brain, but I never hand him the controls. I consider that a basic part of being an adult.
Don't give yours the reins. The other guy doesn't deserve that. No matter what he did.
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •A minute or two is pretty significant.
Real violence rarely takes longer than five seconds. Ever see a real fight? I mean, not high school bullshit? People who know how who are taking it seriously? If it lasts longer than five seconds, someone is extraordinary.
But respect. We all gotta shut that evil motherfucker up. He can be funny as fuck, but should /never/ be given the reins.
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Yes, I have seen real violence. Been directly involved a couple of times. But I never was a fighter, my instincts were honed watching Saturday night violence in and around the pub I grew up in. I learned how to back away from violence and have never had the urge to start it.
So much of what I was saying was about the calculated, sly meting out of violent revenge somewhere down the line.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •I have coward'ed out of more fights than you've had hot dinners. And that hurts more than getting your ass kicked.
I'm not afraid of losing. I'm afraid of winning. He's just a normal guy and doesn't deserve that. I'd cripple him for life. At best.
I can't drink in bars. My autistic ass looks like the easy target I very much am not. And, like I said, he doesn't deserve that. Not for being a bar fighter looking for an easy target. Even though he's the worst kind of bully.
He still doesn't deserve me. He'd be lucky to survive.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •I also never had to hit anyone. I've been a grown-up since before puberty, and I go around violence.
I mastered language and creatively nonviolent problem solving instead.
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •As I posted recently, real violence rarely lasts longer than five seconds. It's not cinematic like some John Wayne bullshit.
Whoever gets in the first shot usually wins. If they know what they're doing and the first shot is disabling.
People who fight fair always lose. That's basically the story of colonialism.
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •I remember the old cowboy crap when somebody would be knocked out with a gun handle. Then wake up a few minutes later and carry on as normal. When a blow to the head Like that is catastrophic.
And know the fights in thrillers where skilled martial artists actually land blows. And this carries on for five minutes. But these motherfuckers are trained to kill. Yet they don’t. Yes you Jason Bourne!
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •what we all CAN do or COULD do means nothing, it doesn’t discriminate, it is the absence of information, it means nothing. Real Allistics hurt way more people than real Autistics, and that any one of them COULD go the other direction means nothing, and do you prefer things that mean nothing? You want to correct me so nothing means anything for me?
NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •If there are no scientific studies on the subject I would always question my own perceptions and conclusions.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •as far as I know there aren’t any, as far as I can tell, Allistic people don’t think there are Allistic people and they are not allowed to learn anything about Allistic people, only ND people. And aggression is not a problem to solve for them, it’s just the way it has always been forever, they see no need to study that.
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •They just started seriously looking into autism ten years ago. These things take time.
Not to mention the fact that they didn't actually ask the autistic people until a couple years ago.
Ever hear of ABA? It was invented by the same prick who invented conversion therapy. I just watched "Three Kings" and the torture scene is brutal, where they loop the wires over his ears and electrocute him. Mark Wahlberg is a hell of an actor. I'm glad he didn't break his teeth making that shot.
I've seen a picture of an about five year old girl with those same wires over her ears, and her face contorted in a rictus of pain. That's ABA. Torture kids into hiding who they are.
And it was industry-standard treatment for autism until fairly recently.
NoBorg
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to NoBorg • • •It is. Should be illegal but here we are. Year or two ago some of us had to report the hell out of an account promoting ABA. To their credit, the mods at mastodon.social threw them out within the day.
(Of course we used the word "torture" in our reports.)
Energetic Nova
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Because I have PDA… I have some diff feelings… since my autism causes health issues…
Im in a space of willing to try anything. CBT/DBT failed. The focus on mindfulness, the part of both of those that made it fail makes me know ACT also wont work. Anything focusing on thought control is a failure. I really need something else. Its so stupid how I can’t find something to actually help me gain a rudder.
Dziadek
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Dziadek • • •@punishmenthurts @hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •I've always thought we should randomly draft for it.
Doug had some wisdom to him.
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@DziadekMick @punishmenthurts @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •America hasn't been a real democracy since WWII. Sadly, democracies can't win wars, and that one was important.
We're almost all the way back to democracy. Give it another couple years.
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •By@Uair@autistics.life
Even by the usual definition:
. The US wasn't democratic before the civil rights act.
. The US never followed 'one person one vote' (e.g. convicts).
. Never had equality before the law.
. Never had free elections.
So, never was, probably will never be. True that it's farthest today from the ideal than it was since at least slavery.
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •And don't get me started on gerrymandering, ballot restrictions, no day off for voting and the fucking electrical college.
The founding people were pretty clear about tempering their republic with anti-democratic dampeners so that the unruly masses don't get any funny ideas.
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •I wish I shared your optimism. I can see #47 being led to exclude swathes of the population from the next election to keep the GOP in power. Unless people fight back (literally).
@Mux
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •Naah, a national strike would do it. No violence necessary.
We might get one out of this horseshit.
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@DziadekMick
Dziadek
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •I’ve thought that too. The ancient Greeks had that nailed.
Our system evolved from rich land-owning basterds, electing one of their own. Democracy came after they saw revolution in France. We still have one house of land-owners and their cosplaying imitators.
NoBorg
in reply to Dziadek • • •Dziadek
in reply to NoBorg • • •Think it’s more the belief that it’s not normal to want to have power and control. That sort of desire is a dark side of our selves. And it’s not an original Adams thought.
Dear old Kurt was there before him:
"There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president."
NoBorg
in reply to Dziadek • • •A real leader is respected, not feared.
cybervegan
in reply to NoBorg • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to cybervegan • • •@cybervegan @hadon @DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
But do we love (hate) our hierarchies! The authoritarian who doesn't feel a thrill when asking "who is in charge here?" hasn't been born yet.
cybervegan
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to cybervegan • • •@cybervegan @hadon @DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
As stated in another branch of this conversation, most of us here don't want to be even near a position of power.
Dziadek
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Dziadek • • •Yeah, what do you mean, “we,” white man? 😠 (I don’t know that you’re a white man, it’s an old Lone Ranger joke.)
Dziadek
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Ángela Stella Matutina reshared this.
Dziadek
in reply to NoBorg • • •Our original society had no leaders. An elder, yes, but decision-making was done by a group, often advised by a shaman (or similar). I believe leaders came into being when *some fool* decided to claim a piece of land and fight for it.
And to quote somebody: You’re not a leader without followers.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Dziadek • • •@DziadekMick @hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
Probably happened after agriculture.
Dziadek
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Dziadek • • •@DziadekMick
Probably the first real form of wealth.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •That Good Leader fantasy that never actually happens is forever pushed by the majority to justify the filthy swine we do get and it’s not better in the primate groups, just because some primates have a dictator doesn’t somehow make that a good thing.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •the damned epstein files, there’s your animal alphas, banging your daughters and your wife (and maybe even your dog, what was the movie, denzel and lithgow?) 😈
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •sorry, blog’s gone, I’ll find something later. Second sleep.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •These are totally Allistic arguments you’re giving us, N. Like we don’t exist, like there aren’t types.
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to sonja • • •@Uair @hadon @punishmenthurts @angelastella @me @autistics
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @emily_rugburn @Uair @hadon @punishmenthurts @autistics
As long as we're trading made-up statistics (and make no mistake, I respected the hell out of Ted Sturgeon), I'm partial to the one which says that 10% of people are assholes and crooks, 10% are--for all practical purposes--saints, and the remaining 80% can be convinced to swing in either way. Which means: how we organize society means something. Also (partially) explains how a well-run campaign can make fascism come back almost everywhere.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I think this is a brilliant analysis.
I feel the same way about sexuality. 10% are straight. 10% are gay. And the 80% are bi, but leaning in different directions.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •So 10% god’s fool Autistics, 80% Allistic, and 10% hyper Allistic?
Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •I use it as an excuse for doing good in a shitty world.
My grandfather was a monster. My family is shit. I'm still the teenage rebel flipping them the finger. And in my case, it was the right call. It was the moral decision.
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
people believe its malicious and sociopathic
NoBorg
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Miakoda
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •Miakoda
in reply to Miakoda • • •...if I had that power, I'd strongly prefer nobody knew it was me. I don't need nor want my name on that stuff, I just want people to be ok. Seeing people happy and safe would be all I want out of it.
This topic makes me tear up. We have all the resources for everyone to be ok, and we, as a species, just don't do it for some reason.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Miakoda • • •Real power hides in the shadows.
You have the right idea.
Ari "Two Naps" Jackson
in reply to Miakoda • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ari "Two Naps" Jackson • • •I fantasize about handing out Xmas cards in the Walmart parking lot with hundred dollar bills in them to obviously struggling parents.
I never aimed so high as to think about being a billionaire, but jesus fuckme christ. I'd give 999 million away as soon as possible.
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
student loans....
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •it’s probably against the law 😠💜
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @Uair @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @Mux @autistics
If it's not, they will find a way to make it illegal. It's not about the money. It's about power.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @Mux @autistics
Let's hope so. Trump et al are making an unholy amount of damage.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Oh, yeah. They're utterly destroying my country. It will take generations to fix this.
But I think they're also creating generations who will fix this.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair
I'm afraid it will take something a bit more violent to teach the US their proper place in the world.
Miakoda
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Miakoda • • •sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@emily_rugburn @Uair @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @angelastella @me @autistics
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •That is so true.
I've never heard anybody else use that line. Respect.
May you live in interesting times.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Miakoda • • •@hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
One thing is the desire to do things like these, and quite another the drive to rule over others, even to achieve these goals. Making tools out of my fellow humans it's not something I'm skilled to do. Let them find their own way, I have quite enough bossing myself.
Miakoda
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Plus, I'm fucking lazy. Doing other people's thinking for them is too much fucking work.
Learn to do it yourselves.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Yes, this. It's not that hard, the longest part is learning to detect when you're fooling yourself and correcting it.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Yeah, that gets tricky. But it can be learned. I did. You clearly did.
Everyone who calls themselves a grown-up should have figured that out.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •one of my back burner thinking projects lately is to figure out WTF “ruling,” means to the severely Allistic. It certainly doesn’t include managing or figuring out how. They have to rule just to drive everything into the fucking ground.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @Uair
Yeah, I've seen too much of that. "It's mine to break it if I want" kind of mentality.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Miakoda • • •I honestly wouldn't even want it. I know my limitations.
And I've got a Kissingerian understanding of power. I could do good with it. It's just not my game.
I'd rather make people laugh. that's harder, y'know. Comedy is the most difficult of the verbal arts.
Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •@bardmoss @Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Of all the tasteless, lazy jokes I've read this year, yours certainly is one.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •thank you, I didn’t get it was a joke until you said so, now I’m laughing.
.
At least Polonius doesn’t need a whole nuclear power plant to make him go 😀
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @bardmoss @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
Let's say I thought best taking it as such. Defuse it if it was an insult, making them rethink if some other thing. (It apparently was.)
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Thank you.
I appreciate the backup. I've always had to fight alone against the world.
Thank you, my friend. I hope I can get drunk with you someday.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair
Anytime, friend. Count on me. At least for shit like this.
If we pull it off it will be one for the history books.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •You think AI could write my posts?
I'm a hyperlexical verbal genius. I started reading Stephen King at age 7 and John Irving by twelve. I'm a better writer than most published authors.
And you're mistaking me for a Grand Theft Autocomplete machine?
I am very, very insulted.
Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •but you could get there if you just had more power 🤣
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @bardmoss @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
I'll follow Randall Munroe here: adding more power ends badly.
Hair Dryer
what-if.xkcd.comGoiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •😀
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
And don't you dare have a glitch in your lexical-semantic network and substitute a word for another. They will use that against you instantly and no correction will get things back on track.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @Uair @punishmenthurts @autistics
Of course, NTs play these stupid status and domination games all the time and they won't ever believe we don't have either the skill or the inclination for that.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I've got nothing. I don't have a job, I only have 2 people in my life and one is pretty nonverbally autistic, and I'm broke as a joke. I don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out.
And I /still/ have better things to do with my time than play those stupid status games. Those are for punks who don't have it. If you really do, you don't give a shit.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •that’s a tough one for me, I love the perfect word, even if no-one knows it and it’s as long as your arm. 😳😇
.
What helps keep me grounded is I know the fancier the words are, it’s often a sign of bullshit, so I try to make myself say things in plain language, if it can’t be said plainly, it’s probably not true enough.
sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @Uair @autistics
Fuck yes. Cursing keeps your brain clean as a motherfucking whistle.
sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •fuckin’ eh 😀
.
it’s another layer of complexity, a scale of finely tuned emphasis
Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •I just got fucked by that. I asked someone if a bill had to be paid up front or could be paid in arrears. Afterward, I figured out he didn't know what "in arrears" meant. He just lied to me instead.
I blame the schools. They teach you to never admit you don't know something and always try to bullshit your way through it.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Cheating bastard. And yes, schools teach hypocrisy, manipulation and pathological indifference to your fellow human's suffering.
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@Uair @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @Uair @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
No. It's clearly by design. Cold, calculating will to keep us divided, distrustful of each other and unable to cooperate selflessly.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •You might like John Taylor Gatto:
dn710202.ca.archive.org/0/item…
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Thank you, but I don't believe I have the spoons to read long texts (I'll try to find it in audio form).
My own experience of school, and what I've learned about them since, present a solid case against them in any case.
Fucking child prisons.
@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •Prisons for the crime of adolescence.
Both of my gene donors worked in high schools. That was my dad's line.
You might want to hold onto that until you have the spoons. He was teacher of the year for New York City twice and New York State once. He knows of what he writes.
Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
old is this shit?
Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •90s? early naughts?
Harper's is legit, tho. They never jumped the shark.
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
i mean, margaret mead was totally debunked and it physically *pains* me to see anyone praising her.
its like calling margaret sanger the forerunner for women's rights but completely neglecting the whole eugenics thing. blech.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •I thought it was . . . Chagnon that everybody hated. I can't remember, what was Meade's deaL?
sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •That's fucking hilarious. Thanks for sharing.
Although, I really don't remember a "shocked" tone. I remember it as respectful. But this was 35 years ago and I was a dipshit kid. I'm not gonna reread it now. I have better things to do with my time.
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
lobotomy.might actually make me smrtrrr
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •it's what I call Allistic science. They're good at physics and stuff, but they have a disability regarding the study of humans, they have the mythical, Human Nature sitting where a whole lot of science would be most helpful. The Davids said it gently and only once in #TheDawnOfEverything , that the Turtle Islanders found the Euro invaders to lack the "actuarial," sense, that they do not see how their treatment of one another affects society and their lives, they lack a functioning naïve psychology.
Douglas Edwards
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @Uair This is part of what I mean by saying that the #mindblindness / "theory of mind deficit" idea almost has it backwards. While #allistics do have a theory of mind, they typically let it atrophy from neglect, habitually using the automatic, intuitive mechanisms built into their #EnvironmentalYoke instead of doing any explicit theorizing. That approach may be great if all you're interested in is jockeying for position in a social hierarchy. It's not so great if you'd like to understand what kind of world your actions are building.
@autistics
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @Mux @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Hey, thank you. Back in the day I translated "The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher" for my family and friends. This essay looks like a good companion to it. I don't know which of his books I read because they were re-titled: one was something like Compulsory Miseducation. Decades ago, my now adult kids were babies.
The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher, by John Taylor Gatto
www.cantrip.orgPoloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Thank you!
I've never seen this before.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair
You're welcome! Looks like he wrote for a lot of different publications, in addition to his book-length works: building a complete bibliography may be challenging.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Fucking awesome.
I didn't start cutting until 10th grade, but I managed to cut 180 days over the next three years.
I cut an entire year of high school.
One day I taught myself to play John Lennon's "Imagine" on the piano.
Mostly I just bought 40s and got drunk in the woods.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair
Not the worst way to live at that age, let me tell you.
Energetic Nova
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •I glitch all the time.
The average american has a vocabulary of about 30k words. The average American author has a vocab of about 100k. I'm easily over 150k by now, and I'm a fucking drunk. You expect me to find the right word every time in /that/ filing cabinet?!?!?
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair
An impossible feat. Now consider what happens when you have two or more interpenetrating networks with nodes in different languages. Obviously I'm asking every fucking day "how do you say this in English?" and "¿cómo se dice en castellano?", I'm the same person thinking the same thoughts with way too many tools on my workbench.
(Also somewhat brain-damaged, same reason. Malapropisms and shit are on the rise.)
NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Language is so ambiguous, words can have different meanings, even sentences. That's why sometimes we need further clarification.
Think about it:
"He's hot" ( mmm... he's cute? he's mad? or is it the weather? are we actually talking about temperature? ) ;)
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •rubbish. It can be, when people want it to be, and a certain sort always wants it to be.
NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Ozzelot
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@emily_rugburn @me @autistics
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ozzelot • • •👍💜
Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷
in reply to Ozzelot • • •Sensitive content
Miakoda
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
more akin to herding cats
Miakoda
in reply to sonja • • •Miakoda
in reply to Miakoda • • •sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
not doing what they want it to do "why dont you know what i mean??"
Miakoda
in reply to sonja • • •Me: "Ok Nabu. When was Loki fed?"
HA: "I don't know of anything called lokafed"
Me: "Hmm... I pronounce that a bit jumbled, apparently. I'll add 'lokafed' to the command."
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Miakoda • • •I love that god’s handle. Low key Loki. 😀
sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to sonja • • •@sonja @Actually Autistics I don't know that I've noticed it in exactly that way, but my masking has become so deeply ingrained over the years that I seldom give people the opportunity unless I'm very close with them.
This has occasionally been to my detriment, but it has made me into a really solid independent learner when I find something I really want to sink my teeth into.
Energetic Nova
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
sonja
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Sensitive content
Energetic Nova
in reply to sonja • • •AutistiCritic
in reply to sonja • • •Laberpferd
in reply to sonja • • •Yes
My pain mostly comes from trying to join specific alternative lifestyles and their special-interest groups (like around the german BDSM scene)
People there literally say things like "we are not here to spoonfed you" or "we dont deal with low-effort people"
Ulrike
in reply to sonja • • •Oh yes! It is sooo making tired to explain... and never been understood (hope my english is ok 😉)
@me @autistics
Perplexed by Joy
in reply to sonja • • •Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
StarkRG
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to StarkRG • • •DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • •Talking on the phone is something I've always sucked at, while I'm completely fluent when typing out text messages and do that on the reg.
Also, it's possible to manage sensory issues and the like; I used to have major issues with getting goopy stuff on my skin, so things like paint, glue, etc, for the longest time as a kid, for example, although I have since learned to manage that and it's not really an issue for me anymore, but that still takes a lot of time and effort to get to that point and sensory issues don't just go away even if they're successfully managed; they still exist.
Quincy ⁂ likes this.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) • • •@DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) Yeah, my biggest problem is that my mouth doesn't have a backspace key. I can draft and re-draft written correspondence before hitting send, but when I say a thing, it's just out there.
Also, I sometimes need multiple passes over a sentence to process what someone has said (or written). People get upset when I ask them to repeat certain things more than once. When it's written, I just move my eyes back to the beginning of the sentence as many times as necessary and nobody's any the wiser (except for me, I guess).
DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • •Also, it feels kinda nice to be able to open up here or on Mastodon, while if I tried opening up similarly on Facebook or Twitter, or sadly even Bsky to some extent for that matter, I'd probably get ostracized for it.
Although I'm more of a visual type when it comes to expression anyways, as in I like to draw or paint a lot and consider myself pretty good at it.
Stardust likes this.
JB 🐎
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Miakoda
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Miakoda • • •Thomas Svensson 🖖
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •It sure is. But the times I get consideration it is for them a passing moment in time, while for me it is literary my everyday.
Too often the same people forget that moment, the next times we are in a similar situation.
Sonikku
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •That <insert_expletive_here> boss of mine totally doesn't get this at all, yet somehow he became a people leader.
Has the people skills of a bowling ball
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Sonikku • • •@Sonikku All too freaking common.
A good boss should reduce or remove barriers that impede their subordinates from doing their job effectively. Shockingly few can actually accomplish this.