friendica - Link to source

When a #neurodivergent person tells you about how something is difficult for them, rather than thinking of them as whiny, consider that this probably means they have a certain level of trust in you to drop their mask enough to do so.

Invalidating that struggle is likely also a pretty effective way of eroding that trust.
#ActuallyADHD

#neurodivergent #actuallyadhd
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

glitchsoc - Link to source

Ángela Stella Matutina

@autistics @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn

Used to misinterpret often until my twenties but got better at reading people (normies mostly, really). Misinterpretation was an entirely different pattern from the NT one, though.

(Still w/o formal diagnosis here. Personal certainty at 80% for ADHD, > 50% por autism; other things not at all clear but comorbidities are common; late-blooming trans, FWIW, and there are correlations with that.)

@Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Actually Autistics @sonja
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sonja

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Ángela Stella Matutina

@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics

Has to live? Hmm. Confirmation that we ADHD fuckers are widely different from each other. I must tolerate my chaos because I cannot control or reduce it, but it hurts me a lot. I lived in ordered environments and didn't become nonfunctional. Autistic need for certain stimuli notwithstanding.

Not defending or justifying anything, just illustrating the AuDHD spectrum.

@Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Actually Autistics @sonja
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Ángela Stella Matutina

@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics

AFAICT that interaction does not usually happen, and I have sensory processing issues that cause me to... malfunction. (Had something close to a meltdown last month during a very noisy, chaotic meeting at a place that had become dark. Not getting visual cues as to who was speaking was the last straw for me.)

@Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Actually Autistics @sonja
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sonja

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sonja

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Poloniousmonk

My theory is that we evolved as a second locus of power in a tribal society. You had the leader, who maintained power through charm and violence. And you had the gender-queer medicine person who was respected as a thinker. When the leader was about to lemming the tribe off a cliff, the medicine person would intervene. And the leader knew to back down.

Just my $0.02

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Miakoda

No its not. My cat doesn't actively make life harder for me and amplify my problems. My cat actually cares enough to lay on my chest like a weighted blanket. My cat doesn't leave when I don't have the energy to play. My cat doesn't call me manipulative and deceitful. My cat doesn't make promises and claims only to 180 later. My cat loves me as I am.
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sonja

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Jonathan Lamothe

@sonja @Actually Autistics I don't know that I've noticed it in exactly that way, but my masking has become so deeply ingrained over the years that I seldom give people the opportunity unless I'm very close with them.

This has occasionally been to my detriment, but it has made me into a really solid independent learner when I find something I really want to sink my teeth into.

@Actually Autistics @sonja
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)

Talking on the phone is something I've always sucked at, while I'm completely fluent when typing out text messages and do that on the reg.

Also, it's possible to manage sensory issues and the like; I used to have major issues with getting goopy stuff on my skin, so things like paint, glue, etc, for the longest time as a kid, for example, although I have since learned to manage that and it's not really an issue for me anymore, but that still takes a lot of time and effort to get to that point and sensory issues don't just go away even if they're successfully managed; they still exist.

in reply to DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)

friendica - Link to source

Jonathan Lamothe

@DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) Yeah, my biggest problem is that my mouth doesn't have a backspace key. I can draft and re-draft written correspondence before hitting send, but when I say a thing, it's just out there.

Also, I sometimes need multiple passes over a sentence to process what someone has said (or written). People get upset when I ask them to repeat certain things more than once. When it's written, I just move my eyes back to the beginning of the sentence as many times as necessary and nobody's any the wiser (except for me, I guess).

@DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)

Also, it feels kinda nice to be able to open up here or on Mastodon, while if I tried opening up similarly on Facebook or Twitter, or sadly even Bsky to some extent for that matter, I'd probably get ostracized for it.

Although I'm more of a visual type when it comes to expression anyways, as in I like to draw or paint a lot and consider myself pretty good at it.

Unknown parent

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Ángela Stella Matutina

@Uair

An impossible feat. Now consider what happens when you have two or more interpenetrating networks with nodes in different languages. Obviously I'm asking every fucking day "how do you say this in English?" and "¿cómo se dice en castellano?", I'm the same person thinking the same thoughts with way too many tools on my workbench.

(Also somewhat brain-damaged, same reason. Malapropisms and shit are on the rise.)

@Poloniousmonk
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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

Thank you, but I don't believe I have the spoons to read long texts (I'll try to find it in audio form).

My own experience of school, and what I've learned about them since, present a solid case against them in any case.

Fucking child prisons.
@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics

@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Actually Autistics @sonja
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Ángela Stella Matutina

@Uair @Mux @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics

Hey, thank you. Back in the day I translated "The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher" for my family and friends. This essay looks like a good companion to it. I don't know which of his books I read because they were re-titled: one was something like Compulsory Miseducation. Decades ago, my now adult kids were babies.

The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher, by John Taylor Gatto

www.cantrip.org
@Poloniousmonk @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Actually Autistics @sonja
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Poloniousmonk

Fucking awesome.

I didn't start cutting until 10th grade, but I managed to cut 180 days over the next three years.

I cut an entire year of high school.

One day I taught myself to play John Lennon's "Imagine" on the piano.

Mostly I just bought 40s and got drunk in the woods.

Unknown parent

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

.
it doesn't necessarily fit in my system, where we were here first. And so far, it seems their type show up in charge, not taking advice from anyone, but
.
if that scenario ever happened, warrior king with an Autistic prime minister or consigliere, it would suggest that when the warriors showed up, some of us foolishly thought we could keep them and use them
.
and I was fantasizing that the Neolithic people understood at least breeding if not evolution, and would know not to do that
.
😲 😂
Unknown parent

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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

Gave it a listen. He's correct, of course, but it's nothing I didn't already know. Funny how he mentions that schools were a Prussian institute, but not that the Prussians were inspired by the methods brahmins used to maintain the Indian caste system...
@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Actually Autistics @sonja
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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

We end up with allists in power because the ones willing to hurt others in the pursuit of power usually aren't autistic.

None of the autists I know show the slightest draw to power. The most I can say is that we're driven to find influence by a sense of injustice.

An autist will (in my limited experience) gladly give up a position of power (e.g. give a patent away or give up copyright) if it benefits the world.
@Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics

@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @sonja

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Douglas Edwards

@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @Uair This is part of what I mean by saying that the #mindblindness / "theory of mind deficit" idea almost has it backwards. While #allistics do have a theory of mind, they typically let it atrophy from neglect, habitually using the automatic, intuitive mechanisms built into their #EnvironmentalYoke instead of doing any explicit theorizing. That approach may be great if all you're interested in is jockeying for position in a social hierarchy. It's not so great if you'd like to understand what kind of world your actions are building.

@autistics

#mindblindness #environmentalyoke #allistics @Poloniousmonk @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Actually Autistics @sonja
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

.
it's what I call Allistic science. They're good at physics and stuff, but they have a disability regarding the study of humans, they have the mythical, Human Nature sitting where a whole lot of science would be most helpful. The Davids said it gently and only once in #TheDawnOfEverything , that the Turtle Islanders found the Euro invaders to lack the "actuarial," sense, that they do not see how their treatment of one another affects society and their lives, they lack a functioning naïve psychology.
#TheDawnofEverything
in reply to NoBorg

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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

Don't know, don't care. I'm speaking in generalities anyway. Even if he is, exceptions are to be expected. One autistic trait he definitely does not exhibit is a strong sense of justice.
@punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Actually Autistics @sonja
Unknown parent

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

.
yeah. If I had to pick, I say he’s Allistic, but if not, what’s the difference?
.
Does that make being a billionaire Nazi an Autistic trait? If he pursues severely Allistic goals with all of his resources, does it matter if he’s masking, only pretending to be that?
.
I mean, this is personal, I have exactly this going with my ex family, they never loved me because I’m a weirdo, it was always obvious that my in laws strove to be seen as normal
and to be popular, it’s what they live for, but after they disposed of me for imaginary Allistic crimes, now they are all self diagnosed Autistics, and what’s the difference to me?
.
I mean, I hope I’m the last Autistic these heavily masking Autistics destroy.
.
A few famous people masking doesn’t mean it’s not a hyper Allistic thing to be what he is. People mask, people don’t know, one name means nothing.
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NoBorg

I was just wondering because Musk has hurt a lot of people and he said he was autistic. So, we have to watch out for prejudgements and don't assume that only a certain type of person can get to high power positions or hurt others.
We all are human, autistic or not; we all are capable of good and bad :/

Nobody is better or worst than others, we are just different.

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

.
and I agree with Mux, usually that’s the case, aggression is more of an Allistic trait than an ND trait, I have written whole books and many blogs and a thousand toots saying that.
.
I’m saying it would be less usual for an Autistic to want that much power, but it surely happens sometimes. And again, we’re talking about types and big data, one dude doesn’t prove anything or mean anything.
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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

This sent me down a Google Scholar rabbit hole from which I emerged with the following conclusion - the current state of research on the intersection between autism and social values, such as control, violence and the will to power is shit.
@hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @NoBorg @sonja
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glitchsoc - Link to source

Ángela Stella Matutina

@Mux @emily_rugburn @Uair @hadon @punishmenthurts @autistics

As long as we're trading made-up statistics (and make no mistake, I respected the hell out of Ted Sturgeon), I'm partial to the one which says that 10% of people are assholes and crooks, 10% are--for all practical purposes--saints, and the remaining 80% can be convinced to swing in either way. Which means: how we organize society means something. Also (partially) explains how a well-run campaign can make fascism come back almost everywhere.

@Poloniousmonk @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Actually Autistics @NoBorg @sonja
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Dziadek

The media in this post is not displayed to visitors. To view it, please go to the original post.
Jung talked to me forcibly. I used to harbour grudges indefinitely. With fantasies of viscious revenge. I’ve got this down to the odd hour here and there with occasional effing and jeffing. But I’m powerless over my feelings so I still get the initial fogging red mist and I have to work to keep the mf away from the controls.
This entry was edited (2 months ago)
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Miakoda

The only thing I'd want unlimited power for is to use it to make sure everyone is ok, and end as much harm and suffering as I could. Ya know, outlaw bigotry, tax the rich, feed and house the poor, support the disabled... all that stuff. Power would exhaust me to death, likely literally... but it'd be worth it to do those things.
This entry was edited (2 months ago)
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glitchsoc - Link to source

Ángela Stella Matutina

@hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics

One thing is the desire to do things like these, and quite another the drive to rule over others, even to achieve these goals. Making tools out of my fellow humans it's not something I'm skilled to do. Let them find their own way, I have quite enough bossing myself.

@Poloniousmonk @Miakoda @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Actually Autistics @sonja
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sonja

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Ari "Second Breakfast" Jackson

@hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics I feel exactly the same way. I fantasize about being a secret billionaire who just gives their money to projects everywhere without their name on it. Giving neighbors money to fix their fence. Giving people money to fix their cars. Giving people money to get out of debt. Just giving so that we can all do better. I wouldn't want my name on it at all.
@Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Miakoda @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Actually Autistics @sonja
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NoBorg

Poloniosmonk, you can get away from your grandfather, you can get away from your family, but you can't get away from yourself. You're stuck having to live with yourself 24 hours a day, 7 days a week! So, you better make of him a great person to share life with ;)
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Energetic Nova

Because I have PDA… I have some diff feelings… since my autism causes health issues…

Im in a space of willing to try anything. CBT/DBT failed. The focus on mindfulness, the part of both of those that made it fail makes me know ACT also wont work. Anything focusing on thought control is a failure. I really need something else. Its so stupid how I can’t find something to actually help me gain a rudder.

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Dziadek

I have done a lot of work on myself spiritually. So I'm now pretty good at engineering a pause when I'm troubled. I say that God is in the pauses. The God I have in mind is a deep inner resource I have tapped, proper ineffable that one! Just the pause brings me up short on doing anything. So I can look for clues as to what to do next. When I'm on my game I can get past the anger in a minute or two and realise acceptance is the answer to all my problems today.
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Dziadek

Yes, I have seen real violence. Been directly involved a couple of times. But I never was a fighter, my instincts were honed watching Saturday night violence in and around the pub I grew up in. I learned how to back away from violence and have never had the urge to start it.

So much of what I was saying was about the calculated, sly meting out of violent revenge somewhere down the line.

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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

By@Uair@autistics.life
Even by the usual definition:

. The US wasn't democratic before the civil rights act.

. The US never followed 'one person one vote' (e.g. convicts).

. Never had equality before the law.

. Never had free elections.

So, never was, probably will never be. True that it's farthest today from the ideal than it was since at least slavery.

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Dziadek

I’ve thought that too. The ancient Greeks had that nailed.

Our system evolved from rich land-owning basterds, electing one of their own. Democracy came after they saw revolution in France. We still have one house of land-owners and their cosplaying imitators.

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Dziadek

My father was in the Navy at the end of the war and a bit after. Hard as nails. He ran a pub which could get rough and I witnessed him stand off two men with knives, when the bar was deserted. He taught me how to defend myself by getting in the first blow when somebody goes to hit you. I never got to test this out because mostly I got to talk myself out or back off and run. The flaw in his teaching was that he didn’t mention head butts. Which was a shame - once.
Unknown parent

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Dziadek

I remember the old cowboy crap when somebody would be knocked out with a gun handle. Then wake up a few minutes later and carry on as normal. When a blow to the head Like that is catastrophic.

And know the fights in thrillers where skilled martial artists actually land blows. And this carries on for five minutes. But these motherfuckers are trained to kill. Yet they don’t. Yes you Jason Bourne!

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

.
more theories and “just so,” evidence:
.
Everyone complains about the beta through zetas, the problem is the sheeple - this betrays the complainer’s neurology, they are not with the followers, they think following is stupid. Which makes the speaker alpha-compatible, they think everyone should be an alpha, thinking for themselves. Counterintuitive, maybe, divergent, maybe.
.
But there aren’t followers, they are all “leading,” each other.
.
You see a million people going the same direction, who’s to say it’s one leader and a million followers and not a million leaders who only know one way to go and no followers?
.
Ask them! See how many call themselves followers.
.
/2
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

.
N., I’ll offer a weakness: you’d think the rut makes every deer and elk an alpha too, the whole herd, children of alphas but they don’t sem to be in quite our state of chaos because of it, not sure what the difference would be . . . I mean, maybe they know it? They don’t assume each other are betas, etc., like humans do?
.
extremely speculative, of coarse. 💜
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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

You won't find any scientific evidence because the whole alpha/beta thing is unscientific garbage based on a debunked study in captive wolf populations that didn't even hold for wild ones.
@Uair @DziadekMick @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Dziadek @Actually Autistics @NoBorg @sonja

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

.
Something’s bothering, I overreached, orangutans are like that, any one can become the alpha - but I sure don’t know that they were ever a familial alpha sort, like other species, I can’t say that they ever had genetic alphas and genetic others and that that’s some normal stage, I don’t know that orangutans haven’t been this way since they became orangutans, do I?
😇
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