RE: androiddev.social/@MishaalRahm…
It’s worth repeating. Android is not a viable base for an independent or even just collaborative operating system. Android is Google and only Google’s project.
If you want to see an actually transparent, international, and collaborative system on phones, support @postmarketOS
🚨Breaking: Google will now only release Android source code twice a yearGoogle has announced that it will publish Android source code to AOSP in Q2 and Q4 of each year.
More details👇
🔗androidauthority.com/aosp-sour…
Breaking: Google will now only release Android source code twice a year
Instead of four times a year, Google will now only release Android source code to AOSP twice a year, once in Q2 and again in Q4.Mishaal Rahman (Android Authority)
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Anthropy
in reply to Thib • • •I mean, google's projects aren't even safe to google itself
I would much love a project like PostmarketOS to take off and become a serious contender to Android.
Right now it's still not there yet (at least in my limited experience), but with how well the developers are making use of the limited budget, and the backing of many great opensource projects, I have no doubt it'll move mountains.
Fell
in reply to Thib • • •Bonsai861
in reply to Fell • • •Tony Schmidt
in reply to Thib • •like this
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kcxt @ 39c3
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •@opensourceit
forking AOSP would be a ridiculously huge effort, since Google has evolved to scale through increasing abstractions you need to have teams of people working maintenance like security fixes across bespoke compilers, apis and code, responsible for having compatible expensive test farms, and establishing governance for changing UI features, updating security APIs, and interacting with vendors.
To support that you would need funding that really can only be obtained by having lots of vendors using your OS, but vendors aren't gonna do that without the governence in place.
basically this is limitied to corporations and states.
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Tony Schmidt
in reply to kcxt @ 39c3 • •like this
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kcxt @ 39c3
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •@opensourceit more or less yeah that's my take.
I believe this is one of the reasons postmarketOS is better. We intentionally work towards decentralisation in a many2many style, so that the number of centralised components that could bottleneck the project are kinimal.
we aim to make it easier to set up your own paclage repositories, CI, and automated testing, and do t force people to pick a side by ensuring that our automated hardware testing allows one device to be tested from multiple gitlab instances.
the binary repo and tooling like pmbootstrap let you easily replace on the fly any part of the OS (same way you would replace a package on your desktop linux pc) since it's literally Linux. The immutable version will also make this possible
stavpup
in reply to kcxt @ 39c3 • • •Claudius
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •@opensourceit the scale of a project like this means, it can't meaningfully be forked. You'd need a team of experienced developers just to keep up, let alone make some headway.
So
"fork": yes
Fork and be viable long-term: extremely hard
😩
Tony Schmidt
in reply to Claudius • •Claudius
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •Claudius
in reply to Claudius • • •@opensourceit 2/ Even with this *much* smaller problem to solve, this project is not ready:
> The goal is to make postmarketOS usable for non-technical people too, but we are not there yet. Usability and most importantly stability issues need to be worked out first.
from: postmarketos.org/state/
So, I would say: no, postmarketOS *currently* is not an alternative. And I personally doubt it will be any time soon.
postmarketOS // State of postmarketOS
postmarketOSClaudius
in reply to Claudius • • •Claudius
in reply to Claudius • • •@opensourceit 4/4 Without backing of a steering entity and MASSIVE effort (human labour, infrastructure, money) I don't see this happening. To reach something that can even begin to compete with current Android or iOS, you'd have to be a pretty large company. Not even Samsung does its own operating system.
It would basically take a nation state or the EU to start from scratch and be competitive in 5 years.
kcxt @ 39c3
in reply to Claudius • • •@claudius @opensourceit you're largely spot on that the "damage" is largely device specific support at least from a hardware enablement standpoint.
We have a very upstream-first community (it's something we take extremely seriously for the obvious reasons in this thread but also because it is just the right thing to do) and as a result upstream projects also increasingly consider mobile usecases, for example GNOME's libadwaita graphics toolkit treats mobile as a first-class citizen, and all GNOME core apps works great on a phone through convergence.
Despite this, we're still operating at a very small scale when it comes to working on things for our own sake and we are still a while away from being able to fully fund even core maintenance of the project.
That being said, 2025 has imo been a year of preparation for us, we have improved our governance
... Show more...@claudius @opensourceit you're largely spot on that the "damage" is largely device specific support at least from a hardware enablement standpoint.
We have a very upstream-first community (it's something we take extremely seriously for the obvious reasons in this thread but also because it is just the right thing to do) and as a result upstream projects also increasingly consider mobile usecases, for example GNOME's libadwaita graphics toolkit treats mobile as a first-class citizen, and all GNOME core apps works great on a phone through convergence.
Despite this, we're still operating at a very small scale when it comes to working on things for our own sake and we are still a while away from being able to fully fund even core maintenance of the project.
That being said, 2025 has imo been a year of preparation for us, we have improved our governance with the aim of making it easier to grow the team and scale more horizontally, we also made a lot of progress towards automated testing which is gonna be huge!
With immutable pmOS also on the horizon I'm really excited for 2026 when it comes to reliability!
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kcxt @ 39c3
in reply to kcxt @ 39c3 • • •@claudius @opensourceit
In the long term I think we'll grow to fill a niche and ideally be self-sustaining along with our community of contributors. We are always trying to bring users in and turn them into developers, return to when you could just tinker with your devices! Our next biggest hurdle is probably going to be figuring out how to collaborate with vendors and shipping pmOS out of the box.
There is also the growing inevitability of climate and economic collapse and an increasing necessity for longer lasting hardware, if there comes a time when Google/Android is no longer a viable option for the EU, I want postmarketOS to be there when that time comes
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Claudius
in reply to kcxt @ 39c3 • • •@cas @opensourceit thank you for the added details. I hope you were not offended by my post. I really like what you are doing. But it is a HUMONGOUS task that you picked. I would love nothing more than this to get funding to a degree where everyone could work on this as much as they wanted.
Basically, I wish the EU had given you the millions of euros it chose to burn up in AI subsidies.
Claudius
in reply to Claudius • • •kcxt @ 39c3
in reply to Claudius • • •@claudius @opensourceit thanks for the response! I'm definitely with you when it comes to funding heh, and no your description was pretty realistic imo, no offence taken.
the upside is that even if we don't succeed in taking over the world, the journey is absolutely one for a lifetime, it's amazing to be part of this project and work on something that brings joy to peoples lives today and now
Thib
in reply to kcxt @ 39c3 • • •thanks all for the excellent points.
One thing I failed to mention in my post is that I support @postmarketOS to help it grow to the point it can seek the public funding it deserves to become a general public solution.
I support financially so the team can
- Go from a prototype to a MVP
- Identify what it’s missing to become mainstream
- Make a case for it to the relevant funders
Individuals alone won’t fund the project, but we can kickstart its next phase.
Loïc Rouchon
in reply to kcxt @ 39c3 • • •Tony Schmidt
in reply to Loïc Rouchon • •Loïc Rouchon
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •Loïc Rouchon
in reply to Loïc Rouchon • • •1. Going Android (Pixel or Fairphone), 7 years of software update, which is better, but still Android
2. Going Murena /e/OS, but doubts regarding apps compatibility (more on that later)
3. Going SailfishOS with @jolla, but still that app compatibility
Loïc Rouchon
in reply to Loïc Rouchon • • •Options 1. and 2., still are Android dependent, so not changing the status quo, even though /e/OS is a privacy improvement.
Options 2. and 3., problem with app compatibility as no Google Play services.
Loïc Rouchon
in reply to Loïc Rouchon • • •Loïc Rouchon
in reply to Loïc Rouchon • • •So unless we get EU regulation that websites (of critical services?) should be accessible without proprietary applications and should rely instead on your choice of MFA/TOTP applications, we are pretty much stuck.
So funding is important, but we need more than that. We need regulations to ensure critical services are accessible without requiring proprietary applications which are only available on proprietary systems.
freechelmi
in reply to Loïc Rouchon • • •pabloyoyoista
in reply to Claudius • • •@claudius
In fully agreement with @cas, I think your assessment is fair, even if it can sometimes hurt seeing it written like that. Personally, one of the things that motivates me the most is that we all know that the task is humongous... But honestly, so was the effort needed to get from news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1… to where we are now.
We (postmarketOS but also the whole mainlineLinux Mobile community: Mobian, Phosh, Plasma Mobile, etc.) have already succeeded in something that is a humongous task, that most considered completely impossible, and that very few even dared to dream. Yet, here we are, and we're not stopping any day soon. Personally, this looking back and seeing what once was thought as impossible as accomplished, is one of the things that motivates me the most to keep going.
@opensourceit @thibaultamartin @postmarketOS
PostmarketOS: Aiming for a 10 year life-cycle for smartphones | Hacker News
news.ycombinator.comelly
in reply to pabloyoyoista • • •@pabloyoyoista @claudius @cas @opensourceit Hopefully you don't mind me chipping in here.
I used to maintain my own fork back in high-school (when LineageOS was still called CyanogenMod... ouch, my back). Back in those days smartphones were a wild west. People carrying computers full of personal data in their pockets without any encryption, banking apps and other essential applications didn't care whether you modified your device or not. It was trivial to root your device and relatively easy to maintain your fork.
That started to change around 2016 - 2018. Around Android 8 codebase started increasing, maintaining your forks/rebasing became
... Show more...@pabloyoyoista @claudius @cas @opensourceit Hopefully you don't mind me chipping in here.
I used to maintain my own fork back in high-school (when LineageOS was still called CyanogenMod... ouch, my back). Back in those days smartphones were a wild west. People carrying computers full of personal data in their pockets without any encryption, banking apps and other essential applications didn't care whether you modified your device or not. It was trivial to root your device and relatively easy to maintain your fork.
That started to change around 2016 - 2018. Around Android 8 codebase started increasing, maintaining your forks/rebasing became a pain in the butt. That's why many "Custom ROMs" started disappearing, it simply consumed too much time and required a lot of resources to build the bloody thing.
Around that time prices of smartphones started to drop, and people in developing countries could afford a smartphone (where they couldn't afford a computer). This was the time when we observed a general population shifting their daily computing needs from desktop onto mobile.
With people shifting their habits, companies decided to track users and sell their data in exchange for "free" utilities and forcing everyone to use their stupid apps (where most people couldn't block ads).
Mobile market became a much more lucrative target for spyware and malware, because now everyone had a computer connected to the internet in their pocket at all times. That's why banks started to detect/block people using modified Android builds for "accountability". Soon after, it essentially became a war.
For that reason, I bought an iPhone with my first real paycheck in 2016. Not having to deal with Android's atrocious security, potential malware in custom builds (it happened many times).
It just worked... until 2022, when Apple started adding ads to App Store and so on. It made me angry that I spent a small fortune on a device and manufacturer dared to serve me ads, so I bought a Google Pixel 6 and installed GrapheneOS on it.
To put it bluntly: I despise that phone. I still have it kicking around, but I'm working on gs101-mainline. Heavy, bulky, no expandable storage, no headphone jack, no physical keyboard.
Using GrapheneOS meant I couldn't use contactless payments, notifications didn't work, and in ~2025 my bank added Play Integrity API, which prevented me from using my banking applications whatsoever.
Some people will say it's about keeping users safe, I call it "control". Device manufacturers are trying to take away device ownership from you by removing the ability to "unlock bootloader" (in reality just flipping a flag whether ABL should check signatures) because they want you to stay within their ecosystems.
Google Services that track your every move, $VENDOR shipping uninstallable applications and harvesting your data/serving you ads. I've looked at my brother's Samsung S25 (or whatever it's called) running stock firmware and I was absolutely horrified.
If my brother and I would be talking about sensitive topics, I would ask him and his girlfriend to put their phones into a Faraday cage. That's how bad modern smartphones are.
AOSP is done for, Google doesn't care about opensource anymore (unless it benefits them).
Releases twice a year, delayed security updates. Not publishing trees for Pixels anymore (their own freakin' devices!).
They laid off the entire ChromeOS team, cancelled AMD Chromebooks, and now there are rumors of ditching coreboot in the future (where they could easily lock-down the boot chain and fuse devices with their own signing keys).
One vendor I've worked with (and whom I'll likely work again this year) almost went bankrupt because of Google and amount of control they have on device manufacturers.
Out-of-the-blue Google cancelled Android XR partnership (even though said vendor helped Google get that project off the ground) and left them with AOSP scraps provided by silicon vendor (Qualcomm).
Said company has ~15 employees whom can't possibly write replacements for what Android XR offers nor maintain it down the road. Hell, you need a system with ~64GB of RAM and ~480GB of disk space to build those sources. It's absolutely ridiculous.
While I haven't done much in postmarketOS, I've been tracking the project since 2018 and messing with/maintaining few devices, as well as suggesting ideas myself.
It's the only way we can have computers in our pockets that don't track our every move and that can easily be pwned by 3-letter agencies if your suspected of any (even insignificant) crime.
It's been a wild ride and I'm extremely proud of everyone who's involved in this project. Tremendous amount of work done and plenty still to do. Slowly but surely it will become a viable replacement for Android.
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Tony Schmidt
in reply to elly • •@elly So I take it you don't think #grapheneos #eos #calyxos or #iode are doing a good job on privacy? Or at least a good enough job since #postmarketos is still barely usable (for most mobile OS users)? I don't hear those communities giving up on AOSP while it lasts, even with their recent changes. Don't get me wrong, I think PostmarketOS is a great project and wish it all the best, but IMO it's not a viable option yet, especially for lesser technical normies who want to degoogle or deapple and/or have access to a FOSS ecosystem that can meet the requirements of most users.
kcxt @ 39c3
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •@opensourceit @claudius @pabloyoyoista @elly dude read what she wrote and stop reading into what she didn't
do you think any of the android derivatives you mentioned have the ability to take on a full fork of AOSP?
Tony Schmidt
in reply to kcxt @ 39c3 • •GrapheneOS
in reply to elly • • •@elly @claudius @opensourceit @cas@treehouse.systems @pabloyoyoista @postmarketOS
> contactless payments
There are multiple working options for contactless payments on GrapheneOS. They won't work on PostmarketOS.
> notifications didn't work
Push notifications work perfectly well on GrapheneOS.
> which prevented me from using my banking applications
That's not solved using something where hardly any open source mobile apps or especially mainstream apps will be available compared to it.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@elly @claudius @opensourceit @pabloyoyoista
> consumed too much time and required a lot of resources to build the bloody thing
Building the OS as a whole from source it not the same as using other people's builds of binary packages.
> AOSP is done
Moving from 1 major release per year to 4 and then to 2 doesn't mean that. People should really stop spinning everything to suit their biases.
> delayed security updates
AOSP isn't the only project with embargoes.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@elly @claudius @opensourceit @pabloyoyoista
> laid off the entire ChromeOS team
> cancelled AMD Chromebooks
> ditching coreboot in the future
> where they could easily lock-down the boot chain
These claims aren't true but it's not really relevant.
> you need a system with ~64GB of RAM and ~480GB of disk space to build those sources
You don't need anywhere close to that much RAM. Building a whole OS does use a lot of space.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@elly @claudius @opensourceit @pabloyoyoista
> It's been a wild ride and I'm extremely proud of everyone who's involved in this project.
Does that include the multiple core PostmarketOS developers who have participated in attacks on the GrapheneOS team with libel, bullying and harassment including linking to Kiwi Farms content repeatedly?
> Slowly but surely it will become a viable replacement for Android.
Doesn't seem to be getting there.
Claudius
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Tony Schmidt
in reply to Claudius • •Rob likes this.
GrapheneOS
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •@opensourceit @claudius @elly The person who originally this thread made inaccurate claims about GrapheneOS and other projects based on misinterpreting news stories. Many people in the thread attacked it and claimed it's non-viable, useless, misguided and downplayed the work we do.
Multiple postmarketOS developers are directly involved in harassment towards our team. Several people friends with them including the person who posted the thread are active here.
Why wouldn't we be defensive here?
Tony Schmidt
in reply to GrapheneOS • •9alpha likes this.
Fossman
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @elly @claudius @opensourceit @pabloyoyoista In my experience #postmarketOS is already a viable replacement for Android today in almost all respects. Depends how much your life revolves around Android/Apple apps, I guess... I've found that every single issue on #postmarketOS has a solution or workaround, even with a modest-spec device like the #Librem5.
That being said I do appreciate what the GrapheneOS team is doing in regards to security and hope some of it will trickle down to regular distros in the future through #secureblue, #pocketblue, etc.
For me, security and privacy is not more important than freedom and decentralisation. I like that there are multiple #FOSS mobile projects prioritising different issues. I use 4 quite different distros on my PCs (Alpine, #Bluefin, #PureOS Crimson & Pop!_OS) and hope to have a similar variety for mobile : )
#LinuxMobile #MobileLinux #GrapheneOS #degoogled
Claudius
in reply to Fossman • • •elly
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to elly • • •@elly You claim the entire ChromeOS team is laid off and yet we know people working there and it's still having active development/releases. How is that supposed to be true?
How are AMD Chromebooks cancelled when they're still getting new models and receiving the expected updates? It sounds more like a specific project or generation was cancelled or skipped over.
Where's your source for them ditching coreboot and doing what you claim they will by locking out other operating systems?
elly
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS
Mostly maintenance by underpaid workers in India. They were given cheapest, crappiest machines and can barely do their job as they’re expected to build remotely in US and tools are timing out due to latency. All proper engineering resources go into merging ChromeOS codebase with Android (which will be a disaster for resulting codebase and overall complexity).
Just check coreboot’s gerrit and look for accounts with chromium.org emails that are no longer active.
... Show more...@GrapheneOS
Mostly maintenance by underpaid workers in India. They were given cheapest, crappiest machines and can barely do their job as they’re expected to build remotely in US and tools are timing out due to latency. All proper engineering resources go into merging ChromeOS codebase with Android (which will be a disaster for resulting codebase and overall complexity).
Just check coreboot’s gerrit and look for accounts with chromium.org emails that are no longer active.
What’s your source on this? Last AMD models were released in ~2023 with release of Zen2-based Ryzen 7000 models (“Mendocino”, baseboard “Skyrim”). Phoenix and subsequent generations were cancelled, people at AMD were either laid off or re-located to server segment. Google’s engineers personally confirmed there are no plans to release new models with AMD SoCs.
Compared to that, they currently have EVTs with Intel PantherLake (“fatcat”) that was just released to the public.
That’s just a speculation and rumors, you’re right about this one.
GrapheneOS
in reply to elly • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @elly @claudius @opensourceit @pabloyoyoista i didn’t think it was possible, but i’ve just lost the remaining sliver of respect for your project.
well done!
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
in reply to Tony Schmidt • • •maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Thib • • •The last time I checked postmarketOS, it was a hacky hobby project not being able to use it on daily base, because almost nothing worked.
And the only usable messenger – if you want to connect with normies – is Signal and because it's the desktop version, it will look weird and UE is bad using desktop versions on mobile devices.
Do you use postmarketOS on a daily base?
BohwaZ
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •maxmoon 🌱
in reply to BohwaZ • • •Axolotl - postmarketOS Wiki
wiki.postmarketos.orgBohwaZ
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •Fossman
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind
hmmm… the Librem 5 costs $800 and I ask myself: For what?
It's not possible to communicate with "normal" people, who gave up their freedom. Without Whatsapp, it's hard to connect with new people, without Signal it's hard to stay in touch with friends and family (and they only use Signal, because I forced them).
I mean, there is a chance that Trump makes more stuff what he does, because in Europe were is already a movement to leave Big Tech companies.
So maybe people will start to use XMPP. At that point postmarketOS might make sense.
But for now it's just a playground for Linux enthusiasts imho.
Fossman
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind
I've read that it's the desktop version of Signal and that it is hard to write and not the whole app can be used.
Deltachat might be a good idea, because it's easier to teach people how to use it. There is even a method to only scan a qr code and start.
Fossman
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •@utopify_org Yes fully agree on Delta Chat - the easiest onboarding in any messenger.
Regarding Signal on Linux mobile, it and **all** apps on Linux mobile are desktop apps! The Signal desktop sidebars can be collapsed and then it is easy to write.
Jan Vlug
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind @utopify_org
I also use a #Librem5 from @purism as my daily phone.
I also use the Signal flatpak, and it works pretty well for me. I zoom out a little bit to have a better experience on the small phone screen.
I also use the upcoming crimson version of #PureOS.
maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Jan Vlug • • •@janvlug @opensourceopenmind @purism@librem.one
Isn't it a little bit weird to use desktop apps on a mobile phone? I imagine the font is always too small, because if you got the same app, but on a smaller screen, everything must be pretty small.
And if you zoom in, icons and the design might deform and it looks clunky. At least that's what I imagine…
Do you have to zoom on every app, like browsers, too?
Jan Vlug
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •@utopify_org
Most GNOME apps are adaptive. You can try yourself to make their windows roughly the size of a phone on your GNOME desktop.
For Signal desktop I collapse the left side pane with names to just show the avatars, it looks pretty mobile native that way.
In general, I do not zoom at all on the Librem 5. And all looks really good. It is more that app change their layout to fit better on a phone. Try it with:
flathub.org/en-GB/apps/de.haec…
@opensourceopenmind @thibaultamartin @postmarketOS
Install Shortwave on Linux | Flathub
FlathubFossman
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •@utopify_org @janvlug
Screenshot of #SignalDesktop I took last year on #Librem5.
Regarding browsers, the default #FirefoxESR does not need any zooming in, and neither does #GnomeWeb, #Kumo or #AngelFish. On #BraveBrowser, I zoom in 125%.
Btw, being able to use desktop apps on #LinuxMobile is generally considered one of its advantages!
#MobileLinux
maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind @janvlug
Okay, I see. I tried it on my notebook, too, but I have to say it's pretty annoying, because many of my contacts (like yours), do not use a profile picture. It's hard to figure out who the icon is and I can only see if, if I open the chat.
Do you know by any chance a smartphone on which pmos will work pretty good? But it should be an older model and not too expensive. (The compatibility data on the wiki might be too old, I don't trust it)
Fossman
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •@utopify_org
- #SignalApp lets you mark the chat as unread again after you've opened it.
- My impression was that all the devices in the #postmarketOS community category are older models, except perhaps the #Fairphone 6.
- What do you want the device for? Even for daily driving, people need different features. I, for example, have totally abandoned voice calls, and use a data-only plan, although voice calls do work on the #Librem5 with my provider.
I've seen that the OnePlus 6/6T, Google Pixel 3a and Fairphone 5 are mostly recommended by users. In my experience, the Librem 5 is better supported except for GPS - you need an internet connection and Wi-Fi toggled on.
Jan Vlug
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind @utopify_org
I have the impression that GPS on (some of?) the earliest released Librem 5's did not work so well. On my current Librem 5 GPS works well (although AGPS is not there yet).
Fossman
in reply to Jan Vlug • • •@janvlug I have gotten GPS turn-by-turn in-car navigation to work amazingly sometimes, but then the following week it would not be that reliable. Only in #PureOS Crimson, I noticed that because of the #BeacondDB integration, if my Wi-Fi was toggled on, the location fix was near instant : ) Same on pmOS. Tried Sebastian's AGNSS script on both and it doesn't really appear to make a difference : (
When I'm moving in a fast moving car (>50km/h), the location lags behind a bit by a few hundred metres. If I'm walking, it's much better - so I think it's only the Wi-Fi based location fix that's really working reliably.
If fast location fix (without Wi-Fi) and turn-by-turn navigation worked consistently and reliably, I'd say the #Librem5 is a complete Android replacement (for me at least). Currently, I still need to take an old degoogled Android with OrganicMaps as a backup when driving to totally new and far areas; it works in airplane mode without any network connection and with no SIM.
maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind @janvlug
What's the name of the navigation app for postmarketOS?
So, okay, if I am on the German Autobahn navigation might be useless. But is there an information like "After 1km right", so that you know were to leave the Autobahn (more or less)?
And how presice is it if you drive less than 50km/h?
Jan Vlug
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •@utopify_org @opensourceopenmind
I think that @opensourceopenmind is speaking about Pure Maps. I use that as well.
flathub.org/en/apps/io.github.…
Regarding GPS on PureOS Crimson, I noticed that the gnss-share.service was not running for me. I created this issue for that: source.puri.sm/Librem5/OS-issu…
Install Pure Maps on Linux | Flathub
FlathubFossman
in reply to Jan Vlug • • •Jan Vlug
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind @utopify_org @organicmaps
I tested my #Librem 5 running #Crimson #PureOS the last days with #PureMaps turn by turn navigation in the car.
Note that due to a bug (for which a fix is in the pipeline) I had to enable manually gnss-share first:
sudo systemctl status gnss-share.service
After that PureMaps worked flawlessly for navigation up to speeds of 130 km/h.
Unfortunately, the voice instruction volume is a little to low for me though.
Fossman
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •Jan Vlug
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind
Can you check if gnss-share.service is running on your Librem 5?
You can do that with in a terminal with this command:
sudo systemctl status gnss-share.service
The service should be active.
@utopify_org
maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Fossman • • •@opensourceopenmind
Depending on what is possible with postmarketOS, I would like to use it on a daily base and if not, it would be a cool project anyway.
Do these things work?
- Full device encryption: I'll never use a mobile device, which contains my private data without encryption
- Navigation: Is there something like Organic Maps? Offline maps, putting flags on the map, sharing places.
- Wifi: I don't use mobile internet, because almost everywhere I am, Wifi exists
- VPN: Mullvad would be awesome
- Syncthing, BOINC, Element/Matrix: I guess it works like on a desktop pc?
Is there an alternative to Vim to view/edit text files (e.g. Markor on Android), because using Vim on a small glass keyboard sounds pathetic 😄
Is there a website showing "desktop touch alternatives" to their smartphone counterpart? Would be interesting what apps people use on their postmarketOSs?
So in Signal you just open a chat, not
... Show more...@opensourceopenmind
Depending on what is possible with postmarketOS, I would like to use it on a daily base and if not, it would be a cool project anyway.
Do these things work?
- Full device encryption: I'll never use a mobile device, which contains my private data without encryption
- Navigation: Is there something like Organic Maps? Offline maps, putting flags on the map, sharing places.
- Wifi: I don't use mobile internet, because almost everywhere I am, Wifi exists
- VPN: Mullvad would be awesome
- Syncthing, BOINC, Element/Matrix: I guess it works like on a desktop pc?
Is there an alternative to Vim to view/edit text files (e.g. Markor on Android), because using Vim on a small glass keyboard sounds pathetic 😄
Is there a website showing "desktop touch alternatives" to their smartphone counterpart? Would be interesting what apps people use on their postmarketOSs?
So in Signal you just open a chat, not knowing who the sender is and then you mark it as unread, if it's "not interesting" or if you don't have time to answer it?
I've tried the mark unread feature on Signal Desktop right now, but I don't know exactly for what it was invented? (except for the above cases).
Fossman
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •@utopify_org If you are planning to someday use it as your main device, that means it will need to connect to the cellular network towers at some point, possibly in an emergency although I hope you never have to.
That means, with all the 3G shutdowns going on across the world and providers keeping allowlists of approved devices that they are sure support VoLTE, investing in a more recent device like the Fairphone 5 would make sense for the long term.
Of course, the Librem 5 being old is not an issue due to its modular nature; the modem is user replaceable and has already been upgraded once, and another modem is probably coming this year based on the user forums.
Jan Vlug
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • • •@utopify_org @opensourceopenmind
I use a #Librem5 as my daily phone:
- Full device disk encryption with #LUKS
- #PureMaps for navigation. GNOME Maps for looking, searching on a map. Both #OpenStreetMap based.
- WiFi just works
- In the past I used Mullvad VPN, but recently not tested any more.
- Synchronization via ssh/scp. I could very probably also use Nextcloud client, but did not test that.
- Signal Desktop
- #Fractal for #Matrix
- I use vim (mostly over ssh)
(1/2)
Jan Vlug
in reply to Jan Vlug • • •@utopify_org @opensourceopenmind
- List of mobile apps on #flathub: flathub.org/en-GB/apps/collect…
- I do not play music, but there is #Gapless installed by default.
- I listen podcast daily with GNOME Podcasts: flathub.org/en-GB/apps/org.gno…
- I listen to internet radio daily with #ShortWave: flathub.org/en-GB/apps/de.haec…
- I do not use bluetooth, so I cannot say how well it works. I use the 3.5 mm headphone jack.
- I like that the Librem 5 is produced by a real #Linux first social purpose company.
(2/2)
Mobile Apps | Flathub
Flathub - Apps for Linuxmaxmoon 🌱
in reply to Jan Vlug • • •@janvlug @opensourceopenmind
Is it possible to share the current position of your listened podcasts to other devices?
I am looking for years for a podcast software, which can do this, but it looks like if something like it exists you get forced to use a proprietary server and get spied on/have to share personal data.
maxmoon 🌱
in reply to Jan Vlug • • •@janvlug @opensourceopenmind
Is it somehow possible to connect the librem 5 to a monitor and use a keyboard and mouse on it?
My very first smartphone was a Motorola Atrix 4G, which had a docking station and it booted a desktop linux, while in the docking station (without it had Android). I've never seen something useful like this before and the only reason why I bought a smartphone at all, was to use it as a desktop, if I come home.
The librem 5 costs $800 and that's a lot of money, because I only invest like $200 for my "newer" notebook. I buy a used notebook on ebay every 5-8 years and it's more than enough for my daily use (coding, writing, surfing, communicating, ordering, online banking, etc.).
Investing more than 4 times for more for a phone, which is restricted (compared to Android) seems super expensive. Especially the hardware specs don't look pretty good. Phones for the same price have twice as much cores and ram.
For this amount of money I would expect to use it for more than just a phone.
Thanks a lot for your long answer 😀
Steve Leach
in reply to Thib • • •I'm always amazed by how bad the Android ecosystem is considering how good the Linux ecosystem is.
I really don't understand how it happened that there has never been a basic set of tools like file managers, text editors, etc. etc. that are all (of course) free, open-source, and (obviously) ad free.
I mean there's *no* paid/spamware stuff in any distro repositories, but it's *all* there is on Android.
Steve Leach
in reply to Steve Leach • • •Like how is it even possible that the "Play" store is so bad that there's no way to filter out applications with paid/pro features or with ads.
I gave up on using my phone for much other than as a phone shortly after I got my first "smart" phone.
There's no point in trying to install software on it - it's a phone... the screen is too small, there's no keyboard, and it's impossible to find software that isn't terrible because of the "Play" store.
Martina Neumayer
Unknown parent • • •@pherjung Yes, they both are pretty good usable as a daily basis systems. Especially SailfishOS. I am using it few years long now and I have no complaints nor any issues at all. Moreover, I'm very happy to not being dependent anymore with google's trash or similar parasitic corpo's junk.
@thibaultamartin
GrapheneOS
in reply to Thib • • •What does the release schedule for major releases being 2 times per year instead of the previous 1 time per year or then 4 times per year matter?
PostmarketOS has poor privacy, atrocious security, weak functionality and isn't compatible with most open source mobile apps or mainstream apps. The core development team behind PostmarketOS has extensively participated in harassment of the GrapheneOS team. How is participating in Kiwi Farms harassment collaborative?
Thib
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •explicitly say they are not consumer-ready.
postmarketos.org/state/
I am not advocating for people to install postmarketOS now as a daily driver, I'm advocating for people to support a project that doesn't depend on Android because it is not a viable route for Europeans.
I am happy that @GrapheneOS exists and that it can serve an overlapping audience today.
I'm asking you to please be respectful of other projects, and I will not engage further.
postmarketOS // State of postmarketOS
postmarketOSGrapheneOS
in reply to Thib • • •> I'm asking you to please be respectful of other projects, and I will not engage further.
You're making highly inaccurate claims about GrapheneOS and disparaging our work. You're claiming it's not viable and dead end. At the same time, you're supporting a project which has numerous core developers and contributors engaging in attacks on GrapheneOS and our team with fabricated stories, bullying and harassment. That includes spreading Kiwi Farms content.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Viivi / diiccix
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •postmarketOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •if anyone on our team or in our community has been engaging in the behavior you describe we would very much like to know about it so we can take appropriate action.
You can contact coc@postmarketos.org or a subset of CoC team members listed here: docs.postmarketos.org/policies…
CoC reports are kept highly confidential, if a report is made to an individual it won't be shared even with other members of the CoC team without explicit consent.
Code of Conduct - Policies and Processes
docs.postmarketos.orgPunnamaraju Vinayaka Tejas
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •ocdtrekkie
in reply to Thib • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to ocdtrekkie • • •@ocdtrekkie What does the release schedule for major releases being 2 times per year instead of the previous 1 time per year or then 4 times per year matter?
PostmarketOS has poor privacy, atrocious security, weak functionality and isn't compatible with most open source mobile apps or mainstream apps. The core development team behind PostmarketOS has extensively participated in harassment of the GrapheneOS team. How is participating in Kiwi Farms harassment collaborative?
ocdtrekkie
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Marco
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •But shortening the schedule release is a just a symptom, the larger issue is sovereignty.
All changes from last years seems to go in that direction, and in that case the comment makes sense: Not a valid option anymore, for most of us.
GrapheneOS
in reply to Marco • • •@marcoap @ocdtrekkie Android only moved from 1 major release per year which was the only release shipped by non-Pixel OEMs to 4 releases per year in March 2024. Moving back to 2 releases and providing proper support for the 2nd one needed to get other OEMs to start shipping those is not what it's presented as being here.
Pixels have become worse as a platform for us to use for multiple reasons including this, but we have a major OEM as a hardware partner. AOSP for use elsewhere is not worse.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •ocdtrekkie
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @marcoap This single change may not be that big an issue you for you, but the problem is structural: You are dependent on an ad company for handouts for your platform to survive. At any time, Google can alter the deal and since compatibility with Google's proprietary version is your key selling point, you are always subject to their whims.
This cannot last. And all of the effort put in will eventually be for nought. Effort that could've been spent making a proper alternative OS.
GrapheneOS
in reply to ocdtrekkie • • •@ocdtrekkie @marcoap
> You are dependent on an ad company for handouts for your platform to survive.
No, it's open source and there are a large number of other projects based on it including from large companies. There are more than enough resources to continue AOSP without Google.
> since compatibility with Google's proprietary version is your key selling point
That's not the key selling point. You don't seem familiar with GrapheneOS. Also, every OS also needs app compatibility to succeed.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Jeff McNeill
in reply to Thib • • •Pablo Martínez
in reply to Jeff McNeill • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Pablo Martínez • • •@pablo_martan @jeffmcneill What does Android's release schedule for major releases being 2 times per year instead of the previous 1 time per year or then 4 times per year matter?
PostmarketOS has poor privacy, atrocious security, weak functionality and isn't compatible with most open source mobile apps or mainstream apps. The core development team behind PostmarketOS has extensively participated in harassment of the GrapheneOS team. How is participating in Kiwi Farms harassment collaborative?
Pablo Martínez
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @jeffmcneill I didn't know about the harassment, of course that's not collaborating and I couldn't support it.
I am not surprised a port of a desktop operating system to a mostly closed platform (mobile) has security issues; more so if it tries to revive old, out-of-support devices, and even more if there's no bussiness behind it. Your work is outstanding, and I'm grateful for it, but it stands on the soulders of a multi billion company.
1/
GrapheneOS
in reply to Pablo Martínez • • •@pablo_martan @jeffmcneill
> to a mostly closed platform
Desktops have hardware and firmware that's just as closed source. They have far worse privacy and security at a hardware, firmware and especially software level though. Macs address the hardware and firmware aspect but not the software one.
> more so if it tries to revive old, out-of-support devices
It cannot provide firmware updates for those.
> but it stands on the soulders of a multi billion company
As does their project too.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Pablo Martínez
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Pablo Martínez
in reply to Pablo Martínez • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Pablo Martínez • • •@pablo_martan @jeffmcneill
> the thing with Google changing it's release cycle
The original post in this thread and many others elsewhere are misrepresenting what's happening. Why does it matter to you that it moved from 1 major release to 4 major releases per year to March 2024 and now back to 2 major releases per year? Those are the only releases available to their OEM partners for shipping too. It's not a limitation on open source compared to their OEM partners, it's the release cycle.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@pablo_martan @jeffmcneill
> moving development of Android behind it's doors
Not really what has happened. What has actually happened is that Pixels are as open of a platform as they were before including for the project talked about in this thread. It's Pixels which have gotten much less good for us, not AOSP itself.
None of these recent changes in the past year would have mattered to us if there was already a secure alternative to Pixels we could use and we were using that instead already.
Pablo Martínez
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •elly
Unknown parent • • •@GrapheneOS If you're referring to alleged attacks, then all I would have to say would be that I will not believe for a second that someone from postmarketOS's team attacked other project or person working on it.
I intentionally skipped this part because I'm sure you will try to convince me otherwise, but that's something we won't reach an agreement on.
They are genuinely some of nicest people I've ever met, we've been meeting semi-regularly at events in Europe for the past 3(?) years, during which I've never heard GrapheneOS mentioned in a bad manner.
If anything, I'm the one who tends to get too fired up about things I care about and people need to calm me down from time to time (which is something I'm actively working on).
One single contributor that ever made me uncomfortable (mansplaining UFS bringup while I was holding a phone in my hand running mainline Linux kernel and booted into userspace from internal UFS storage) was (as far as I'm aware) banned for transphobia towards other contributors and few other things. That's literally it.
GrapheneOS
in reply to elly • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM
Unknown parent • • •@GrapheneOS @elly this reads extremely funny as someone who’s a) vaguely adjacent to pmOS and b) has been targetted by channers and KF before.
are you, like, for real? pmOS people are some of the nicest folks i’ve met online 🙁
GrapheneOS
in reply to dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @elly even if this was true, which i doubt
… do you really think people are watching an hour long video that does nothing but bullies grapheneos? nobody does that! nobody worth anything, at least…
GrapheneOS
Unknown parent • • •dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Dźwiedziu reshared this.
GrapheneOS
in reply to dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM • • •GrapheneOS
Unknown parent • • •dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Unknown parent • • •dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Unknown parent • • •@domi @elly You keep downplaying how well known GrapheneOS is along with the size of the userbase and importance of the work we do. You wrongly think it's a tiny niche thing and yet it's a widely known project with a lot of users that's partnered with one of the largest Android OEMs. How do you think we have millions of dollars in funding to pay a team of full time developers if it's a tiny niche project as you seem to believe?
We never said GNOME or postmarketOS themselves is attacking us.
dmi 💽 soon -> FOSDEM
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @elly just to be clear:
one of the biggest linux DEs has made a smear campaign about an android distro
and we are hearing about this now, in a thread where someone voiced critique of you
… why. i still don’t get what GNOME, us, or anyone has to gain from this 🙁
Ariadne Conill 🐰
Unknown parent • • •@GrapheneOS @elly nah this is bullshit Daniel, if that were true we would have kicked him off of treehouse. you absolutely know I don't tolerate KF fuckery.
but you have sent us ZERO reports. I looked.
I just switched to your operating system because I think it is the best option for running Android, but this behavior makes me ponder whether I made a mistake in doing so.
Ariadne Conill 🐰
Unknown parent • • •@GrapheneOS @elly Caleb Connolly is not Rossmann. I don't like Rossmann either, or FUTO.
But picking a fight with pmOS doesn't help anything. I encourage you to focus on making GrapheneOS rather than picking fights with other projects.
I respect your technical work and understand that you have gone through a bunch of traumatizing events but the answer is therapy, not going after people because they retweeted a video.