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I dunno, *can* we build #European alternatives to #Facebook and co?
The #EU community managers are at it again with promoting the EU instance on #Mastodon!
PS: the community management team (that's my team) are up for an award. Any chance you'd give us a vote? Project 32 on this link: enonet.eu/survey/index.php/227โฆ
Informa Pirata likes this.
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Matt Vestengen-Cox
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Like, for real - companies and organisations sign up to Mastodon and then just expect people to show up.
But you gotta post on Facebook / Twitter / Threads / Instagram / whatever, to say:
"Hey! Look, we have our own accounts on Mastodon. Go get the Mastodon app and follow us over there!"
๐
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Florian Schmidt, papiris๐ด๐ต๐ธ and Eowyn reshared this.
WesDym
in reply to Matt Vestengen-Cox • • •That was in fact exactly how communites changed platforms in the past, and it always seemed to go well enough. So I don't know why it would be a problem now.
"Starting by [date], we'll be making official announcements primarily from [Masto acct], and much less over time on [corporate accts]. Join here."
Simon Brooke reshared this.
paulasimoes
in reply to WesDym • • •On the other hand, there is no technical reason why someone on Mastodon cannot follow and talk with someone on X - even Facebook made a bot inside MySpace to make people move platforms easier (many years ago I used Friendfeed, and I followed and talked with my contacts on Facebook and Twitter, without having to go to Facebook or Twitter).
But there is a legal obstacle today: DRM law, which states no one can br... Show more...
On the other hand, there is no technical reason why someone on Mastodon cannot follow and talk with someone on X - even Facebook made a bot inside MySpace to make people move platforms easier (many years ago I used Friendfeed, and I followed and talked with my contacts on Facebook and Twitter, without having to go to Facebook or Twitter).
But there is a legal obstacle today: DRM law, which states no one can break DRM even for legal purposes. No company or community will create a platform like Friendfeed today because they would have to break DRM at some point and would be taken to court.
If the European Commission really wants to solve the big platforms problems, they need to get rid of article 6 from the 2001 Copyright Directive. Doctorow has a really insightful talk about how and why to do this: pluralistic.net/2026/01/01/39cโฆ
Pluralistic: The Post-American Internet (01 Jan 2026) โ Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow
Cory Doctorow (Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow)Owl Eyes
in reply to Matt Vestengen-Cox • • •Urban Camera
in reply to Matt Vestengen-Cox • • •@matt
Did I not read the news, from several disgruntled users, that their posts about Mastodon were being shadow-blocked or refused by the big meta concerns and Twitter?
@hpod16
Petra van Cronenburg
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •I already wondered who makes this good work! (Clicks link).
I think one problem is that people await a 1:1 copy of these platforms, but why should we imitate them with all their inherent bad sides? FB's strength are their groups where people can talk with their whole village or meet all gardeners of their region. Easy, intuitive for absolute non-techies. I can't do that in the Fediverse. But we don't need a FB clone to invent such places.
Vladimir Campos
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Diogo Constantino
in reply to Vladimir Campos • • •@vladcampos so is making them specifically "European", whatever that means in a world were software development is more often than not, developed using off-shored and out-sourced teams from all over the globe, using development tools and software libraries, and online services that are even more developed by a global coalition of contributors. Attributing nationality hides this people work, to serve silly and missguided goals.
@hpod16 @w3c
Petra van Cronenburg
in reply to Diogo Constantino • • •@vladcampos @hpod16 @w3c
Diogo Constantino
in reply to Petra van Cronenburg • • •@NatureMC
Which as I explained on the rest of the thread, do change, and are currently lead by people who want to make them weaker to serve Trumpf and Big Tech. Talk about the values not the flags! Also people from other places also share many of the values, and there's no tech without us all collaborating to build it.
@vladcampos @hpod16 @w3c
Diogo Constantino
in reply to Diogo Constantino • • •@vladcampos
What serves the public over time is guarantying them rights over software and technology. Sometimes certain jurisdictions do it better than others, this is true, but that is circunstancial, as we can see with the Commission multiple pushes for Chat Control for more than 10 years, the curent plans to weaken GDPR and other regulations to please Trumpf and Big Tech.
@hpod16 @w3c
Vladimir Campos
in reply to Diogo Constantino • • •@DiogoConstantino @w3c I see myself as an Internationalist. That's why I mentioned #ActivityPub, a decentralized protocol that anyone can adopt. Its interconnectivity characteristics makes is local/global. BTW, it's not European. And I agree on the open source, no matter where it's from.
But there are limits. For example, the world payment system shouldn't be dependent on Visa/MC which can be shot down by a single country. The same is true for "the Cloud", communications, etc.
Diogo Constantino
in reply to Vladimir Campos • • •@vladcampos the cloud is several different things, one in popular culture, and the technicall definition.
The infrastructure is mostly but not exclusevely on American hands. But the cloud is what I also have here on my home, were I can scale up and down resources on demmand, for systems and applications I selfhost.
To see and to treat technology exclusively as if only Big Tech exists is a big error that most Big Tech detractors do, and that almost all journalists do.
@hpod16 @w3c
Gilberto Ficara
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •I would argue that it really depends on what "Facebook", "instagram" and "whatsapp" mean for this person.
I think we don't really have a valid alternative to the Marketplace for example.
Instagram is pretty much covered by Mastodon and Pixelfed, but would it work at scale? (with millions or billions of photos and videos to store and moderate)
Whatsapp is a lot harder. I don't think that Matrix is a good alternative and unfortunately Signal is under US influence too.
Luca Sironi
in reply to Gilberto Ficara • • •Friendica, would be the fediverse alternative to Facebook, giving the possibility to have private groups.
Here an article from (of course) @_elena
blog.elenarossini.com/the-futuโฆ
There are not that many #friendica instances, unfortunately
The Future of Social is Here: a Show and Tell (part 3: Friendica)
Elena RossiniEye reshared this.
Christopher Stark
in reply to Luca Sironi • • •@luca @zompetto @_elena
How "usable" is #friendica by now? Does anybody know?
#fediverse #socialmedia
Luca Sironi
in reply to Christopher Stark • • •@christopherstark
People who use it, seems to love it.
I'm not that much into formatted posts or groups.
Never been on facebook.
For example people with a friendica account, could create a topic or local group
and you could follow that group from your mastodon account.
How cool is #fediverse
@informapirata
@zompetto @hpod16 @_elena
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Informa Pirata
in reply to Christopher Stark • • •@Christopher Stark I'm a big fan of Friendica, but it's clear that, while Friendica has achieved a good level of usability, it isn't and never will be as usable as Mastodon.
Friendica is still the most complete software in the entire Fediverse and deserves a larger community of users and, above all, developers: currently, there are practically three of them maintaining the system!
I recommend trying the Raccoon for Friendica Android app (also usable with Mastodon) because it has significantly improved many of the web version's ergonomic issues. The app is currently still in beta, and I recommend downloading it from GitHub because the one on the app store is still version 0.4 and has some significant flaws.
github.com/LiveFastEatTrashRacโฆ
@Gilberto Ficara @Elena Rossini ๐ @Luca Sironi @Hannah Grace
clouderst is cloudier than the cloudest cloud in the sky of clouds
in reply to Gilberto Ficara • • •Petra van Cronenburg
in reply to clouderst is cloudier than the cloudest cloud in the sky of clouds • • •@clouderst The problem is that people want to buy directly from social media. They want to buy a piece that their favourite artist shows, they don't search leboncoin for it. A lot of people are only on Insta because it's an important part for earning their life. And Mastodon is still no alternative (many artist get aggressed for posting their shop links). Leboncoin is good to sell an old table ...
@zompetto @hpod16
Petra van Cronenburg
in reply to Petra van Cronenburg • • •clouderst is cloudier than the cloudest cloud in the sky of clouds
in reply to Petra van Cronenburg • • •i'm not denying the aggression thing. It's just bad cause how do people expect artists to make money if they don't promote themselves!
now even though people want to buy from social media, instagram doesn't have a marketplace of its own, nor does it take any taxes for promotion. It's an advertising platform, not a marketplace. The same goes for every other platform excepting youtube and facebook. Facebook marketplace was designed to be a replacement for services like leboncoin. Since most of facebook's userbase is old, they decided to capitalize on that since most young people don't tend to buy old.
Literally no artist puts up their work on facebook marketplace and if they do, they advertise and send the user to another platform (patreon ko-fi etc), just how they do on insta, twitter etc
Petra van Cronenburg
in reply to clouderst is cloudier than the cloudest cloud in the sky of clouds • • •Informa Pirata
in reply to Gilberto Ficara • • •Hi @Gilberto Ficara
... Show more...That's not the case. There's Flohmarkt, a federated app that's constantly improving and offers a sort of federated Amazon. Furthermore, Facebook has become indispensable for many people thanks to events and Facebook Groups, but even then we have alternatives: Friendica handles "events" very well, but there are also federated platforms specifically designed for event management (Mobilizon and Gancio). Today, it's also possible to federate WordPress events, thanks to the combination of three plugins (Activitypub, Eventbridge, and any event plugin).
As for Facebook Groups, we not only have systems that manage them from the ground up, like Friendica, but also the entire world I call Forumverso (Lemmy, NodeBB, Piefed, Mbin), which natively manages forum or Reddit-like platforms and can be managed very well by Mastodon. Additionally, there are Andr
Hi @Gilberto Ficara
That's not the case. There's Flohmarkt, a federated app that's constantly improving and offers a sort of federated Amazon. Furthermore, Facebook has become indispensable for many people thanks to events and Facebook Groups, but even then we have alternatives: Friendica handles "events" very well, but there are also federated platforms specifically designed for event management (Mobilizon and Gancio). Today, it's also possible to federate WordPress events, thanks to the combination of three plugins (Activitypub, Eventbridge, and any event plugin).
As for Facebook Groups, we not only have systems that manage them from the ground up, like Friendica, but also the entire world I call Forumverso (Lemmy, NodeBB, Piefed, Mbin), which natively manages forum or Reddit-like platforms and can be managed very well by Mastodon. Additionally, there are Android apps for Mastodon like Raccoon (version 1.0 coming soon to the Play Store) that allow you to view groups much more intuitively than the standard Mastodon interface.
Large scale won't be a problem if there are many balanced medium-sized instances that don't overwhelm the subscribers (in fact, a few monster instances with more than 50,000 users can create veritable seismic waves on smaller instances). A truly federated and balanced environment offers far better moderation than commercial platforms, if only because in the Fediverse, the moderator-user ratio is a percentage made up of whole numbers, not fractions, as on commercial platforms.
As in the previous case, Matrix (or XMPP) could be a good alternative if there's a true federation and not huge, unsustainable nodes in the long term. The Matrix Foundation, for example, is struggling precisely because it manages a huge centralized server for software designed to be distributed...
The way Signal is managed, it wouldn't make a difference if it were American or European: the software is extremely reliable, and metadata collection is kept to a bare minimum.
@Hannah Grace
Hannah Grace
in reply to Gilberto Ficara • • •@zompetto
Yeah, I mean the answer is phrased pretty broadly on purpose. Mastodon isn't the solution for all this, but I like to promote the EU mastodon account whenever I can.
(I'm trying to get it into the top 10 most followed (active) accounts on fedi, grinding away over here...)
Kyyrypyy
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •@zompetto
What I'd love would be a "facebook for local bussineses" that you don't need an account to view (a bulleting board, if you please); far too many companies still don't have only FB page for opening hours, menus and other information, so as a result it's easier to plan ahead if you're going to big chains.
I'd love Friendica to be that, but it's actually more strict about browsing without an account.
WesDym
in reply to Kyyrypyy • • •@Kyyrypyy That already exists, and has for many years. It's called the Web, and anyone can use or view it.
I CANNOT understand why small businesses don't just set up websites. They're cheap and easy to set up, and anyone with Internet access can view them.
Kyyrypyy
in reply to WesDym • • •@wesdym
Pecause they also need to worry about SEO, and actually registering a website, and actually making that website, and that would mean hiring someone, or some firm, to do it.
I'd PREFER if all bussinesses had their own websites, but they just want to make food and sell crafts, not worry about all that stuff. And FB has made it easy to just make a site, and bebhappy with it. It's simple, it's fast, and it "has reach".
Conny Nasch
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •haui โญ๐ต๐ธ
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Depends. Do you defend the murderous border regime of the eu with its concentration camps and the support of the genocidal israeli state?
If no, I'd be interested.
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •reshared this
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Wolf480pl
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •if they made so much money that must mean God approves of their actions and blesses them, right?
@hpod16
๐ซง socialcoding..
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Another upvote for your team's efforts then. It is delightful to see how EU presence is expanding on the fediverse since EUVoice and EUVideo and 3-day workshop ActivityPub for Administrations by SocialHub.
socialhub.activitypub.rocks/puโฆ
EC - NGI0 Liaison -- Webinars and Workshop April 2021 - SocialHub
socialhub.activitypub.rocksHannah Grace
in reply to ๐ซง socialcoding.. • • •@smallcircles
Aaaaand did you see this sentence in the EU open source strategy published yesterday?
Link: digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/โฆ
Communication on European Tech Sovereignty, accompanied by an EU Open Source Strategy
Shaping Europeโs digital futurereshared this
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๐ซง socialcoding..
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •yes, I sure did. For a moment some time ago there was talk that the open source strategy would be less pronounced. But this direct reference to decentralized social media, and building out on mastodon is beyond expectations again. Nice!
PS. I maintain the 3 fediverse-related delightful lists that give a good overview of how many ActivityPub based open source projects already exist. See: delightful.coding.social
Delightful Lists
delightful.coding.socialTimothy Roes
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •๐ซง socialcoding..
in reply to Timothy Roes • • •I assume you refer to how in communication references to "mastodon" are made?
There's indeed something problematic in that, about which I've been posting a lot and also blogged about: the app-centric nature of the current fediverse, and the re-centralization forces this sets in motion.
See e.g. coding.social/blog/grassroots-โฆ
Mastodon is a brand. A platform and product that targets the fediverse to offer Microblogging services. The way it is used puts it on a pedestal, makes it more prominent than other microblogging apps like #GoToSocial, #Pleroma, and many other alternatives. But it is the social network as a whole that counts, not individual service provider players.
The word #Mastodon is overused in too broad meaning, similar to how people say "I'll google it" when they want to do an internet search. It sells alternatives short, like DuckDuckGo or Kagi. Some people don't even know about fediverse and say "Join mastodon" when they mean "Join the decentralized web".
Grassroots fediverse evolution
Social coding commons๐ซง socialcoding.. reshared this.
Timothy Roes
in reply to ๐ซง socialcoding.. • • •Hannah Grace
in reply to Timothy Roes • • •@TimothyRoes @smallcircles
๐
But I am learning a lot of interesting things in this thread!
๐ซง socialcoding..
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •@TimothyRoes
Ha ha, me too. Now I know your favorite color. ๐ Mine is likely orange, and its not because I'm Dutch. But purples comes a long way, perhaps second in line ๐
Timothy Roes
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •๐ซง socialcoding..
in reply to Timothy Roes • • •@TimothyRoes
The (over)use of "mastodon" is understandable. Mastodon played a pioneering role in implementing microblogging use cases with the #ActivityPub protocol and is also the most mature product at this point in that 'business domain'. Establishing itself as a brand.
#Fediverse is not a very descriptive name to people unfamiliar with it and the idea that it provides access to many apps that integrate with on a single social network (ideally) interoperably is foreign. They are used to 'platform thinking'. Fediverse weaves a social fabric that allows you to be "social together with others" online.
The europa.eu website now has a #Mastodon icon in its social channel list, that hides all that.
Perhaps most communicative is the name #ActivityStreams (name of W3C standard vocabulary of social actions to support). Then a person would subscribe to EU's activity streams and receive Posts, Articles, Videos, Events, Policies, News. Every service the EU offers adds to the stream.
Graeme ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Informa Pirata
in reply to Graeme ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ • • •@Graeme ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ People over 40 still use Facebook thanks to two specific features: events and groups. Local groups, in particular, are an important way to find news about their town and to identify local buying and selling deals.
Some still use Messenger, but it's not a determining factor. The messaging system, however, is crucial for those who use Instagram, which now relies solely on passively viewing reels and actively writing messages to their contacts.
@Hannah Grace
WesDym
in reply to Graeme ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ • • •WesDym
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •I don't understand this question. The actual THING is stupidly easy to make. Hell, I was often impressed with how weirdly primitive Facebook is, given when it exists. (Some earlier platforms were much more sophisticated.) The thing itself is easy to do. It's the PEOPLE USING IT and how it's managed that make the difference, and that's been done many times and can be done again.
Just make something and see who shows up, and try not to let it get out of hand. Why is this even an issue?
the_rebel
in reply to WesDym • • •This Facebook โalternativeโ helped build the Fediverse and has been part of it from the very beginning. Itโs called Friendica.
Itโs just that the Mastodon fanboys donโt want to promote it, just like they donโt promote the many other services such as Loops, Pixelfed, Vernisage, etc.
After all, itโs competition for Mastodon, which operates as a company within the Fediverse and does corporate things.
@hpod16@eupolicy.social
WesDym
in reply to the_rebel • • •SomeVeganCheeseIsOk
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •I just want old reddit, where real humans made whole threads of terrible puns and the experts posted long, detailed, passionate, rambling essays on their subjects. I *loved* that. I love reading those conversations.
I miss that.
Really Lazy Bear
in reply to SomeVeganCheeseIsOk • • •@SomeVeganCheeseIsOk There's still a bit of that sometimes but mostly it's just become echo chambers where opposing but not really bad ideas are still downvoted to oblivion.
Idk if Lemmy is a good alt to reddit. I haven't been there in a while, but I usually only lurk on some subreddits through my redlib instance nowadays but yeah there's no place for good discussions there anymore.
Also I forgor to add, there's "AI" presence there... I'm finding a hard time finding them within replies
SomeVeganCheeseIsOk
in reply to Really Lazy Bear • • •Really Lazy Bear
in reply to SomeVeganCheeseIsOk • • •@SomeVeganCheeseIsOk Oh... that's really fucking bad.
Last time I was there the people were pretty mad and outraged about what Trump was doing and they were some mocking him. That was a year ago and I was on lemmy.world instance
Well, to be honest I don't even feel like I belong there so I stopped going.
SomeVeganCheeseIsOk
in reply to Really Lazy Bear • • •Really Lazy Bear
in reply to SomeVeganCheeseIsOk • • •@SomeVeganCheeseIsOk Yeah Redlib's a private front-end for Reddit. Think of it like it's invidious or nitter but for reddit. You can self-host it or use somebody's public instance.
I browse around subreddits without js that way cos the regular reddit website wont load without it.
Yeah there are bots around reddit now. Pretty expected cos I think google bought them a year or two ago and y'know, google's onto "AI" a whole lot.
github.com/redlib-org/redlib
GitHub - redlib-org/redlib: Private front-end for Reddit
GitHubWesDym
in reply to Really Lazy Bear • • •@reallylazybear Reddit's fundamental promlem is the same as FB's: They MUST make money for their corporate owners. Both run on ad revenue, which relies on engagement. So pretty much all their effort is on the latter. That's why reddit used the nuclear option against locked subs, and put a hard cap on how many people you can block. And that's also why both suck to spend a lot of time on.
Removing the profit motive obviates those motives.
Really Lazy Bear
in reply to WesDym • • •@wesdym Yeah. They'll try their damndest to keep people on their platform no matter what. Every popular for-profit platform does it.
I think that's why most places on the web reeks of negativity. It's what keeps people hooked. People can't stand seeing something wrong so they try ways to correct it, some other people keep making wrong stuff, the cycle goes on.
There's a word for it. I forgot but it's a vicious cycle. That's why I'm overall just tired of being on the "social area" of the web
Really Lazy Bear
in reply to Really Lazy Bear • • •@wesdym It's really exploitative of the human mind and it's just sad a ton of people like to "knock down" other people's opinions in quest of having the only right and superior opinion.
And the worst part is that it just works and I think the algorithm on those places favors this, which is just sick and I don't doubt people sort get a high being the right one, idk...
WesDym
in reply to Really Lazy Bear • • •Really Lazy Bear
in reply to WesDym • • •@wesdym Yeah. I wish more people realized this but I guess being right over that opinion that struck a nerve matters more.
Or maybe they did realize but they don't care.
WesDym
in reply to Really Lazy Bear • • •Martin
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Tofm2
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •social.netdynamics.eu, based on the fediverse, compatible wit Mastodon, without its limitations, relying on the friendica platform, with a European mindset is THE alternative platform to Facebook.
Registrations open, you are welcome to join, we are waiting for you.
social.netdynamics.eu
Christoph Jรผngling
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •dummzeuch
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Simon Brooke
in reply to dummzeuch • • •DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
in reply to Hannah Grace • •Can't you just self-host a Friendica instance in the EU? That would very much be a Euro FB replacement.
Ditto for Pixelfed with regards to IG, Mastodon with regards to Twitter, Lemmy with regards to Reddit, Loops with regards to Tiktok, and PeerTube with regards to YT.
Hannah Grace
in reply to DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) • • •On my part, it was a rhetorical question, the point being that our EU instance on Fediverse does exist. But I am learning a lot about European alternatives thanks to this thread, so that's nice. ๐
Informa Pirata
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Tofm2
in reply to DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) • • •European Network Dynamics is precisely answering that point
@DFX4509B You're absolutely right, and the good news is: it already exists! ๐ European Network Dynamics runs Social. Netdynamics.eu, a Friendica-based instance, self-hosted in the EU, designed as a positive agora for European citizens to connect, share, and speak freely. It federates across the entire Fediverse while keeping your data under European jurisdiction. Registrations are free and open! Why not join us and bring this conversation there? ๐ค Everyone in this thread is welcome, the more voices, the richer the community. โจ
๐ social.netdynamics.eu
Kind regards.
#netdynamics #netdynamics.eu #fediverse #friendica @DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
Tofm2
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •Coal
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •i always put into question *do we want to*?
I don't want the leopard that eats peoples faces no matter where it's engineered
Tofm2
in reply to Coal • • •Let us reformulate this question like this : "do you want to join European Netdynamics ?"
Friendica has no defined nationality, it does not belong to a private techno-feodalist company. Friendica was orginally built by an american australian.
Friendica is totally open sourced.One of Friendica's team key members (Tobias Diekershoff) is German Berliner.
European Netdynamics is self hosted in France, by an officially registered company (registration number on demand, by PM)
Registration, participation is free and open to anyone.
@Coal
Leander Lindahl
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •๐คฉ๐ช๐บโ๏ธ
Cecilia | MeraOrd
in reply to Hannah Grace • • •The Fedibook already exists.
fedibook.net/login
Log in โ Fedibook
fedibook.netLeander Lindahl
in reply to Cecilia | MeraOrd • • •@meraord indeed, its early days yet, but a promising concept.
fedibook.net/groups/digital-soโฆ
Log in โ Fedibook
fedibook.net