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A significant factor in the effectiveness of Western propaganda against China lies in the psychological tendency for people to accept their circumstances more readily if they believe that the situation everywhere else is worse. Even merely considering the possibility that China might excel in a certain aspect opens the door to questioning the superiority of the Western system.
in reply to Yogthos

And China's propaganda targeting its citizens is based on bastardized CONSUMER CAPITALISM and a bunch of shiny shit that will dilapidate just as quickly as the west's did. But the government officials who are SELLING THAT NOW, will be long dead and not available for lynching by the time that dilapidation occurs. The maintaining of that SHINY NEW infrastructure in the long run will cost INFINITELY MORE than it's creation and tank the Chinese economy fershure.
in reply to Yogthos

I understand perfectly. Psychopaths rose to the top and NATIONALISTIC CHAUVINISM is ALL they REALLY have to offer. @yogthos. 100 years. Maximum. Peak oil from ME is calculated at 2040 by Iran. That's the ONLY INEXPENSIVE TO PROCESS OIL. Natural Gas typically follows 50 years later. 90 years until energy panic. Expect an earth destroying war in the Caspian Basin for it.
in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i it's obvious that you have no intention of engaging with reality or actually understanding China, you're basically providing a concrete example of what I'm talking about in my original comment.

You've convinced yourself that China is just as bad as the west, and this helps you cope. It's kind of sad really.

in reply to Yogthos

The REALITY IS the necessary materials to maintain that shiny infrastructure wont be available after a not so long on the evolutionary scale period of time
in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i if the civilization persists then we will have an abundance of material available to us in space.
in reply to Yogthos

There is a fallacy here and it is not very communist like.
The standard of living of all people on earth to rise to relatively healthy level (not exactly the use abuse and discard of the "west" but healthier nutrition than 90% is having, healthy living conditions, safe and healthy working conditions) we are facing with probably 200% rise in industrialization. The raw materials' and earth resources to achieve this are by far not there, they appear to be there because only 20% is enjoying the results of current industrialization, the rest work to produce them.

Who decides whether the improvement of std.living (material conditions) is secondary to man's exploration of space for the specific reason of bringing materials from space to earth? It is a metaphysical dream or poet's dreams that such thing may happen.

An authoritarian idealist/religious dreamer will enforce sacrifices on others (not the ruling elite) to make the ideal reality. So not only non-communist thinking but I'd say anti-communist thinking.

The current economical system, even this of China and Russia is based on an artificial bubble of global virtual banking. Governments place the public into deep long term debt, borrowing from the future, to subsidize economic elites today. This debt has reached and passed sustainability, sp they are borrowing from a planet that is lifeless and a desert. If this debt as current "value" can't be repaid then this wealth is driving extinction, and every day faster and faster, nearer and nearer.

Social, environmental, psychological conditions of the population are part of "material conditions", it is not just food and shelter. I'd say we have reached an all time low, where we are in the verge of either driving an earth destroying global war of west and the rest of the world, or an instant melt-down of the economic bubble system. Either are a massive population reduction option.

The only people who successfully left capitalism and are doing well are the zapatista communities who have enjoyed true communism/communalism for the past 31 years, despite of the war the Mexican and US government have been engaged in against them.
The fact that vanguard marxist/leninists refuse to deal, explain, acknowledge this fact is because it is very much against Marxist elites, not all Marxists, and especially not all dialectical materialists.

The only thing we can all agree on is this hymn
youtu.be/3bZzM4s0Hgs?si=n9Pk0d…

@Yogthos @Heretical_i

in reply to yianiris

@yianiris

"Who decides whether the improvement of std.living (material conditions) is secondary to man's exploration of space for the specific reason of bringing materials from space to earth?"

The technocrats decide, no matter the sociopolitical system. We DO NOT NEED TO 'mine asteroids'. We need FOOD SHELTER etc.

Your politicians ALL BE LIKE Arms race peace race space race "At the same time, our people grumbled for more nylons and washing machines"
getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5cf9882c-… Fuck COMPETITION

in reply to Heretical_i

But need for oil reduce with time. More and more things depend on electricity. If oil is very efficient, oil in car due to several factors is less efficient than oil, due to the means to get it and transport it. China has developed the planet widest electric railway network.

If today batteries are unacceptably heavy for using large number of huge cars for transportation, it's more interesting for train and light cities cars, bus and light vehicles. Most China scooters are electrical since about 15 years now. The production of renewable electric energy is just insane in China, and will progressively, as in Europe, replace any current oil based things, with more efficiency.

In the area of batteries China that make 80% of planet ones, dirty and rare elements are gradually replaced by more clean and easily available ones.

The same way their orbital station, as most artificial satellites use plasma, where the ISS, based on old Soviet Mir station, use more heavy combustibles. Most of rockets that reach ISS are still Soyuz and Progress from soviet era too, still launched in Kazakhstan's base Baikonuur.

There are lot of cooperation between Europe and China, to make progress, even if they are both partially blocked by USA stupide stance. Chinese cars manufacturers will start to build factories in Europe, where they was closed by European and American industrials. Progress in science of both part is exchanged. In both case, there is a hard work to make cities greener. They are not like US vision of pure concrete cities without trees. Walking in China large cities is very calm with their large green parks, trees rows and reduced noise due to a large electrical vehicle part. As soon a motorbike go through a street in Paris, nobody can hear friend speaking, or birds in trees. They are gradually pushed out of the cities.

At the opposite, I believe the idea to recover a rocket as Musk do (and few Chinese now also do) is totally stupid, it's more a ad. show for "technological superiority" than a real advantage. Launching things in space is a fight between weight (of used charge and energy charge). adding the charge to get back the rocket make the rocket a lot heavier, and so less efficient. There is few chance, that the part or the rocket that come back will be used, after the damage of a fly.

CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network

in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉

Oil/gas fed powerplants are at best 30% efficient, aside from the CO2/Microparticulate issues involved. 70% of the energy is wasted. That's why Lectric Cars are an environmental nightmare. Nuclear power approaches 40%, but leaves a radioactive mess at decommissioning, other hazards. During hurricane katrina the spent fuel rods at nuclear plants all along the Gulf coast were stored in glorified swimming pools w tin sheds overhead. Guess what happened to the water @Popolon 1/2

yianiris reshared this.

in reply to Heretical_i

@Popolon A year or so ago I read a new material for solar panels was developed bringing them THEORETICALLY to 40% efficient. Energy expended creating that material, described as an alloy, unknown. That's another issue. True costing the overall energy used to create these technological bandaids for a planet's citizens seemingly addicted to oil and the consumer/commuter societies literal!y ENFORCED on them, by people making money on that enforcement. China IS NOT an exception to the latter.
in reply to Heretical_i

China is an exception on the subject, Europe is a bit late on this area, but China is far modern and developed than any other countries on lot of electric production, transport and usage. If you ever travel in China, you will hear the more quiet huge cities due to large part of electric cars, and see lot of (not electrical) solar head water on roofs, lot of photovoltaic panels, windurbines everywhere. Huuuge photopholtaic farms and windturbine in desert area. But desert tend to shrink due to intense tree planting politics to reduce Gobi desert.
in reply to Heretical_i

9 of 10 most powerful electric generators in world are just dams, including several in China. There is no nuclear plant. China has thousands of dam all around the country, with a lot around Changjiang, where lot of huge rains was a big problem for population with floods every years. Beside dams, China has a lot of very efficient and huge wind turbine farms, photovoltaic farms and a very good and efficient electric network. The Europe do the same. There is not so much gaz/oil powerplants In this two areas. Still lot of coil sadly in Germany and China, but tend to reduce with time. Nuclear plants are near (but not too much at the same time) of large cities that consume lot of energy. Depend fresh enough waters of rivers or sea.
in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉

@Popolon Someone pointed out that mountaintops covered in solar panels, as seen in China, don't allow the natural absorption of water by the vegetation below and cause flooding as rivers of rain slide down the panels and get dumped en masse at intervals created by gaps in the panel's individual installation sites.
in reply to Heretical_i

Don't know where your information come from. I never seen photovoltaic solar panels at mountaintops, and traveled all around China, they are mainly in desert, and on roof top, beside caloric solar panel (for hot water), as said before. There are lot of little sized photovoltaic panels in top of streetlights/roadlights too, with sometimes a mix of wind-turbine+photovoltaic panel.

Mountaintops have windturbine instead, as in most Portugal's mountaintops.

As said previously too, main flood of rivers are in south of central China, and it's long time problem. Building lot of dams, reduced floods a lot in this area, and provide huge electric power.

Sadly whole planet in general have more and more floods in moutains valley, but that's not related to any kind of solar panels at all.

in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉

Proud of it too @Popolon youtube.com/watch?v=TVQxp9ekPe… ps.Im NOT your research assistant
in reply to Yogthos

Chavinism bores me.

China has the last vestiges of the industrial revolution because it makes and sells consumer products to consumer societies whose economies will collapse in short order and take IT'S economy with them. End of oil coming soon and NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVE that doesnt destroy the planet too, in any foreseeable future. They'll REALLY REALLY WISH they never diverged from Mao's worldview.

This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)
in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i seems like the problem will solve itself when western economies collapse. For what it's worth, I too wish that China did not become a consumerist society.

I was very happy living in USSR without consumerism, but sadly many people were not and that system got overturned because people wanted to have shiny things westerners had.

China would've followed the same path as USSR had it not made compromises.

in reply to Yogthos

I was going to say Russia seems to have a saner economic model ... Slower growth and I can tell you when the affluent Chinese (albeit most likely taiwanese) kids show up at the local UC they act very much like the spoiled booshie american kids there. I haven't seen that behavior in the Russian emigres I meet.
This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)
in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i Taiwan's not really representative of the rest of China. Also worth noting that China has been moving away from relying on consumerism as the backbone for the economy. The role of private sector continues to decline.

piie.com/research/piie-charts/…

in reply to Yogthos

Apropos. Just showed up on my fb tl. China IS stakeholder capitalism with the citizens as ostensible stakeholders
in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i China is not stakeholder capitalism. Why do people find it so difficult to actually learn about China. It's not like information is difficult to find. There's this trend of aggressive ignorance within western left where people insist on mischaracterizing China as some form of capitalism and refuse to actually look at the evidence in front of them.
in reply to Yogthos

"The WORLD is a business, Mr. Beale!" You think the chinese economists don't get out their minmax calculators and figure... Seriously. China is IN business, and doing quite well at it too.
in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i I get the impression that people in the west can't imagine that anything could be structurally different
in reply to Yogthos

My whole life is as structurally different from the average western industrial human as is possible. I havent owned a tin box with wheels for almost 30 years, by choice. Went from Class A tractor-trailer license to NO class voluntarily. Sick of it. Cars are a SOCIAL DISEASE ISOLATING US FROM EACH OTHER. I live outdoors 365 days a year (the climate here allows it, rarely going to freezing, but I'm well equipped). They call it Homelessness, but THAT is a State of Mind. @yogthos

You were saying?

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i that's just individual action and it's no more meaningful than using paper straws. Individual action cannot solve our problems. What I'm talking about is imagining society being structured in a different way.
in reply to Yogthos

You LIVE Revolution, with an analysis, or you have empty words, hypocrisy, and a cult following a 'leader'. What some MARXIST said in the 1960s about having to be an 'absolute heretic' to have any effect. You WALK AWAY from the dominant society and build your own better one... "singly or in groups" @yogthos The guns and insurrection thingie is IN DEFENSE of that Revolution created. That was the part the Hippies forgot

In Roszak's Making of a counterculture. Too busy to get the pullquote atm.

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i seems like you're talking about yourself there. Anarchists have lots of empty words and vitrol with nothing to show for it. Meanwhile, China continues to improve lives of billions and build socialism.
in reply to Yogthos

Im living the dream @yogthos in the belly of the beast. My whole life has been dedicated to volunteering and mutual aid and I'm sorry your dogma got run over so you resorted to ad homs and denigration.

Ps. "Borders" are the problem, b/c in today's world theyre literally artificial creations. It's ez 2C what happens when they 'undo'. EX-Yugoslavia/EthnicCleansing as people return to land that was birthright and other people have been placed there by economic and other socially engineeed factors.

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i seems like it's your dogma that got run over given that you're the one who started getting abrasive and shitting on what an actual existing socialist state is accomplishing.

Anarchists dedicate their whole lives to finding ways to cope within the horrific capitalist system, but continue to fight with people who suggest meaningful ways of achieving systemic change.

Using purity tests to attack existing socialist projects is one prominent example of that.

yianiris doesn't like this.

in reply to Yogthos

@Yogthos

but continue to fight with people who suggest meaningful ways of achieving systemic change.


This is baseless anti-libertarian propaganda. Baseless because libertarian communists (aka true anarchists) reject vanguardism, so it would be unexpected for them to fight against others who fight in the same front with them. On the other hand few fragments of Marxists share this rejection of one single party vanguard. The loose area of autonomists have various blends and flavors of both extremes of anti-capitalism. In real life and experience you find more Marxists spilling poison and being bitter about anarchists than the other way around. There are exceptions and variations to this by geography, where in the US there had been period of cooperation and respect for one another, they had learned to work with each other in some communities of historic struggles, and places like N. Spain and Italy where Marxists would rather kill anarchists first before they engage the true enemy, due to recent and not so recent past experiences.
You can't expect anarchists in the old "bloc" to be very tolerant of Marxists, as they can not possibly be convinced that there are any other forms of Marxists than the fascists they experienced.

The political maturity of the zapatista communities is centuries ahead of what we "prisoners" have, and they look at us with petty for being so immature and probably hopeless.

There is a dialectic synthesis, if you are a true Marxist and not a pet of some party, you will see and find it, or at least seek the synthesis instead of chasing a dead beat bankrupt vanguard down the rabbit hole of history.

Bankrupt not of its own wrong doing, but by remaining idle in the attempt of the capitalists to drive it into bankruptcy. The classic rhetoric may still be for sale, nobody is really buying, because marketing forces dictate what ideology consumers should shop for.

anarcho-individualists sell very well, they are almost promoted by mass media culture, and we know why, because they are totally harmless to the capitalist. They may be harmful to anti-capitalists ...

@yianiris@libretooth.gr
@Heretical_i

in reply to Yogthos

Here's some REALISM. The world is a business. That's current reality @yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i the reality that China holds US bonds which allows them to do stuff like this? scmp.com/economy/china-economy…
in reply to Yogthos

Collaboration with capitalists🤣 Trade embaros and other bullshit are just red meat for both side's slaves to be indoctrinated with in their me-dee-unhs and affect otherwise possible social relationships with citizenry on both continents.

Speaking of slaves, when WILL Chinese companies be held accountable, like american companies should be, for offshoring their shitwork for the west to sweatshops in other nations @yogthos ?

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i the defining aspect of being an anarchist is shitting on people who are making tangible material improvements in the lives of the global majority while achieving absolutely nothing themselves. Absolute clown shit.

Heretical_i reshared this.

in reply to Yogthos

Any comments from the peanut gallery to @yogthos's denigration of people who are ostensibly #communists, if they actually practice #Anarchism in their daily lives? #Anarchists

Heretical_i reshared this.

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i practising something on individual level is just being a liberal. Communism is fundamentally about collective action. Something an actual communist would understand.
in reply to Yogthos

Sure. Liberal. 🤣 I'm the liberal who gets in cops faces calls them nazis then explains exactly why they are publicly while exhorting folks to do the same when they're harassed. Sure. You misuse the term Liberal discussing my analysis and actions. I'm SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR MY COMRADES, Dude. Leading, WITH A SOCIALIST ANALYSIS, AND WAY OF LIFE.

So what do YOU do besides code and pontificate about geopolitics @yogthos ?

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i what systemic change have your actions contributed to? Getting in cops faces might be satisfying for you on a personal level, and make you feel like you're doing something, but it doesn't change the direction of travel of the society as a whole.

Meanwhile, I'm not the one sealioning into your threads to pontificate.

in reply to Yogthos

That's not all Ive done guy. You need a laundry list back to when I waz a 14 year old? Really? It also depends on what you mean by 'systemic changes' because that System IS working AS DESIGNED, and CANNOT BE changed. It will COLLAPSE ... Self-Destruct at the hands of the powers that rule , rather than allow change. That global system is CAPITALIST atm, and you're speaking for changing it, not OVERTHROWING it. It is what it is. Destructive. No matter the 'national boundaries'.
in reply to Yogthos

I didn't accuse you of sealioning but you're making a lot of assumptions about the direction my analysis leads, without any historical cites. I'll let Uncle Ho speak for me here. Theory IS NOT the driving force... Patriotism... You know, to community first, then outward, is.

Ho Chi Minh with East German sailors in 1957, Stralsund Harbor Germany.

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i I don't think we have any disagreement on that. Nowhere have I argued against organizing communities and building grassroots power.

What I'm saying is that solidarity with existing socialist states is also important. Even if they don't pass your purity tests. Whatever you may think of China, it provides direct support for socialist projects around the globe. China is the primary reason Latin America is currently shaking off US influence.

in reply to Yogthos

I agree with this entirely, and I know you can't just stop the trajectory of industrial societies, but I do ponder on that riddle, "If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?". I posit at some point some cohort said GO BACK! THIS WON'T WORK!.

I'm with them😎

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i I appreciate the sentiment, unfortunately capitalist ideology actively seeks to eradicate anything that's incompatible with it. As long is it remains the dominant force in the world, no alternative ways of development will be tolerated.

The only thing I find notable about BRICS is that it's not ideologically driven. If BRICS can succeed then there may be potential for different types of civilizations to emerge going forward.

in reply to Heretical_i

In archeology, industry means a typical production industry in a specific society. We can speak about industrial revolution with coil powered steam machines, but most societies have an industry.

CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network

in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉

FOR a specific society, and usually in it @Popolon. There's a difference regarding who decides what industry in play there. One that helps the society prosper, or one that lets some individuals in it prosper by enforcing industries that furtbet that goal on the society. Car Culture comes to mind immediately, and all the environmental AND SOCIO-PSYCHOLOGICAL mayhem it causes. @yogthos
in reply to Yogthos

@heretical_i western left could learn a lot from movements in Latin America to see how effective organizing at scale works
in reply to Yogthos

This speaks to an industrial society issue. Namely that homogenous societies are the best candidates for Revolutionary social change. Identity and personality politics in industrial society's media prevents their citizens from finding common ground. That's why it's important to find common ground with your neighbors, then build networks of like minded people ...

An example just came to me from my FB feed. Welcome to the first Brit Rainbow Gathering 😎 newscientist.com/article/24615…

in reply to Heretical_i

@heretical_i sure it's what Marx and Engels talk about as well when they say that capitalist mode of production ends up forging the proletariat that ultimately takes up arms against capitalists.

Unfortunately, it turns out that people will accept incredible amounts of abuse before deciding that their conditions are unacceptable.

in reply to Heretical_i

Stonehenge, as most monumental pre-celtic stones things we still keep from French Britain and Britannic islands are generally made for today, winter solstice, to celebrate death. There is often one or as in Stonehenge, a lot of, tumulus, around. There are a lot if Iberic peninsula too.

They are the oldest building we still have on earth, with at least one in Turkey older, and probably some in Syria/Libanon/Palestine currently bombed by fascist and racist Israelis). A

CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network

in reply to Yogthos

Venezuela is one of the largest oil producers in the world, being outside the absolute control of US oil trading, gives more states the freedom to break dependence with US.
The problem with economies being dependent on exports to a market under US/UK/FR control, or part of their economy being foreign multinationals extracting/manufacturing/transporting, while depending on debt markets to borrow for "development" .. any move towards independence brings immediate bankruptcy and poverty.
@yogthos @Heretical_i
in reply to Heretical_i

Do you mean that paying taxes are like holding state capital? This is a bit strange point of view to compare things that are only to get financial income, and developing schools, hospitals, gardens, electrical network, transportation and other essential services.

CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network

in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉

@Popolon Taxes ARE 'state capital' afaict. Whether the citizens have a REAL SAY in how that capital gets used is relevant here, but stakeholder capitalism would assume they do. The gist is that for someone somewhere else that kind of capitalism STILL rapes their extractive resources etc. Iow there's no such thing as kinder gentler capitalism
in reply to chilly branzino ☭

The whole Prisoner series is on YouTube for free if I recall correctly. The overarching theme was you cant trust anyone. Patrick Mc gouhan must have sensed something about the brit secret service he DID NOT LIKE while doing Danger Man/Secret Agent. The studio refused to produce it so he did it with his own money ... It was a small weather balloon that chased you down if you tried to escape @Nimbius666 @Popolon @yogthos
in reply to Heretical_i

Warning, there is a US remake of "The Prisoner", but it lost all interesting aspects of the original one, and is just totally stupid and uninteresting, couldn't look at it for more than 10 minutes. Looked several time the British series.

CC: @Nimbius666@comp.lain.la @yogthos@social.marxist.network

in reply to Heretical_i

Oil less agriculture is going on in China more than any other place in the planet, so when all else fails they will still be fed, and those that are fed best will survive a war longer.
Still only 30% of the labor force is somehow connected with industrial production. The other 2/3 live in a different China, very much like the 70s.

The western war machine is very oil/energy dependent. The whole model would collapse given a massive oil shortage.

China opened a conditional door to western capitalism to come in and produce wealth (from exploitation), a different approach than in the SU where overnight they transformed the political elite into a new capitalist class. China opened the door and capitalism flowed in, to a great gain for China, obtaining the infrastructure and know how of western industrialism. Then they soaked western debt as value gained. This is all good under the assumption western capitalists would be willing to lose in their own game, and they are not because for a few centuries they never played fair in any game they were involved in.

But have the Chinese been wrong, or are they dumb? Or did they just accelerated the collapse of capitalism by throwing extra fuel into an already uncontrollable fire? I am speculating the political elite in China was able to foresee the problem developed for those who are unwilling to foresee anything instead of getting more cash today. And greedy capitalists couldn't care less about anyone's future. Their governments are not allowed to worry, they are paid to serve and protect.

in reply to Yogthos

Would Taiwan be under control of the invading Chinese if it wasn't for the US passing it on to the emperor in 45 then supporting this pseudo country against the will of the natives?

Taiwan is purely a product of US imperialism and anti-communism. The native revolutionaries were aiming for a democratic government and redistributing land equally among the natives. Instead, what they got was a racist military regime, treating the indigenous Taiwanese as slaves, that lasted for decades while all resources were sucked by a few families in the proximity of the exiled emperor. Before Japan's surrender in 1945, Taiwan was under a Japanese occupation.

"A developed country"

@Heretical_i @Yogthos
#taiwan #china #japan #ww2
#European Imperialism

in reply to Yogthos

Remember the story I wrote that got me banned from the environazi mastodon server?
Where you run an electric generator with fossil fuel, roll 400mi of wire round trip to a plant 200mi away, charge a battery and then go drive/ride you e-vehicle, and this is perceived as efficient and "clean" since the pollution is 200mi away? That is how much sense e-vehicles make, as in most parts of the world 85% of electricity is made from fossil/organic fuel/burning.

Some marketing idiots sell the lie of how efficient electric plant steam generators are, because unlike your car or small generator they can contain heat and make the most out of mechanical energy. Partially true, but mechanical to electrical still lags, then you have tremendous losses of power during the transport, resistance, transformers, (all producing heat/noise) ...

If you have been in a forest with very high powered lines going through you know that is the only thing you hear, not birds or roaring water.

in reply to yianiris

@yianiris outsourcing pollution away from where people can see it, has basically been the main action in Europe. There's no holistic understanding of the problem, it's just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
in reply to yianiris

Most efficient powerplants are dams, not nuclear plants, among ten top powerplants there are 9 dams (from all around the world, China at top followed by several South-America countries) and only a Saudia gaz plant at the bottom. Now photovoltaic panels and windturbines are very efficient and reduce by iteration their hard to find materials. The same for batteries.

Beside the fact that a car is a really inefficient vehicle (in term of energy) in general, oil vehicles are far less efficient than electric one, if we count the whole energy production or mining to last bit of usage chain today. I agree that huge electric car is not a good choice (and small plane start to come), but electric trains/tramways are very efficient. In Europe cities, we start to use more and more battery aided bicycles since about 4 years, so still a bit of sport, but you can go to a place like office without needing a shower. They are sustainable (but a bit expansives in Europe). In China, they massively produced electric scooters since 15 years ago, and you can see some hundreds parked in line on some cities streets. This is far more efficient, than 2 tons vehicle to transport one 80 Kg people alone :(. Electric trans, tramway, trolleys, and in last bus, etc are more efficients.

CC: @yogthos@social.marxist.network

in reply to Popolon🐷 ᠫᠣᠫᠣᠯᠣᠨ🐎抱抱龙🐉

There is little to compare in environmental destruction after huge dams and industrial agriculture. Open-pit mining comes as a distant third.

In the world's largest natural habitat of salmon the US has built 5? nuclear powerplants (Columbia river) but they say radioactivity is well below "safe levels"

Only Iceland is more volcanically active than this area.

But US oil/auto industries will have you believe that electric vehicles are the solution.

@Popolon @yianiris@friendica.world @yogthos

in reply to Yogthos

Some years ago I saw a documentary how this huge forest in SE Asia was being converted to monocrop of non-edible crops specific for their high capacity for biodiesel production. Tribes of indigenous people were evacuated from their homeland deep in the forest under threat to be killed or burned.
The deforestation project so extensive the value of lumber went as low as it would cost more to transport it to port than its price. So they decided to just burn it instead as it was more economically feasible. The fires were large enough that the smoke was visible from satelite/weather imaging, just plain visual.
The primary market for bio-diesel was NW Europe, particularly Be-Ne-Lux, Germany and France. The consumers think they benefit the global environment and the climate that way, not using fossil fuel. In reality straight bio-diesel is very hard to consume in a diesel engine, it is most commonly dilluted with diesel and only 5-10-20% is bio. The rest is dinosaur juice. It also doesn't like very cold weather as too many solids form and clog filters.
This is western environmentalism for you. A tropical rainforest destroyed for the market of an illusion to alternativism. Capitalists will make profit with child labor producing Che Guevara t-shirts.