We're continuing investigation to the performance issues, you can follow and react here: https://lemmy.world/c/friendicaworld

mastodon - Link to source
An email I received left me speechless. Obviously, they don't respect my creative choices. I will not 'fix' this panel under any circumstances.
in reply to LisPi

mastodon - Link to source

rootfake

Religious bigots

Sensitive content

@LisPi @Erpel @Neomojimixer
in reply to Elaina إلينا

mastodon - Link to source

F4GRX Sébastien

the brain sticks to its beliefs to maintain its own sanity. No believer person in a believer family will question its faith. It's a too hard frame to break. It requires regular active support from non believers so they constantly question their situation and stop considering it like the normal thing.

It's an extreme opinion but for me, faith is a mental poison that breaks the brain.

This entry was edited (9 months ago)
in reply to F4GRX Sébastien

mastodon - Link to source

fraggle

@f4grx @Lulukaros @napierge there's a youtuber named Evidenc3 who did a series of videos describing how he lost his faith and they're a good watch. In particular he frames God as a "mega belief" that's propped up by many smaller ones, so even if one smaller belief falls the overall belief structure remains

youtu.be/12rP8ybp13s

@Elaina إلينا @F4GRX Sébastien @napierge
in reply to F4GRX Sébastien

mastodon - Link to source

hazelnot

@f4grx @Lulukaros @napierge hm, idk, I used to be a Christian as a kid (raised in an Orthodox Christian family) and then throughout high school I just gradually believed less and less until by the end I kinda just didn't at all

It didn't require any active effort from me or anyone else, it just happened, believing just gradually made less and less sense to me as time went on

@Elaina إلينا @F4GRX Sébastien @napierge
in reply to hazelnot

mastodon - Link to source

F4GRX Sébastien

my opinion is probably stricter than actually required. Teenagers are usually eager to think by themselves and try new things, especially the ones parents dont like. But the families around us are above average bigotry, and tend to stay in bigoted circles. I am concerned about some kids i know. I really hope they will be able to escape their bigoted families and meet normal people, and then think about their own lives.
This entry was edited (9 months ago)
in reply to GinevraCat

mastodon - Link to source

ArneBab

@GinevraCat to ease that: here’s the wonderful episode 36:
peppercarrot.com/en/webcomic/e…

@davidrevoy

Episode 36: The Surprise Attack - Pepper&Carrot

Official homepage of Pepper&Carrot, a free(libre) and open-source webcomic about Pepper, a young witch and her cat, Carrot. They live in a fantasy universe of potions, magic, and creatures.
Pepper&Carrot
@David Revoy @GinevraCat
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Ro_G ⏚

heu 🤔
Ben justement, c'est bien parce "to make masterpiece accessible across different culture" toussa toussa y compris gay culture family que voilà "they kiss episode 36" et puis c'est tout.
Et si ça expose tes "children" tu leurs explique et tu nous break pas les nuts!
Oh mais c'est bon à la fin 😡

(edit: ça s'adresse bien sur à Avid Reader hein, pas à David Revoy. J'chuis colère, un peu)

This entry was edited (9 months ago)
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

白川間瀬流

My personal recommendation (absolutely feel free to not care^^) would be to just delete/archive the mail and be done. I respect your choice and agree with you 100% and understand why you want to share it, but to me personally it feels strange to make that public. At least with an Screenshot of the mail and so on. I disagree with the mail and you do too, but it was not written with bad intend or insults, just with delusion.
in reply to Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary

mastodon - Link to source

白川間瀬流

@pteryx @unixorn His Email did not portray him as a fascism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

He can not censor anything

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorsh…

What does a public roasting cause? Virtual clap on the shoulder from people who support you anyway (nothing changes) + more hate and anger from people who do not support you (negative).

imho he asked question politely enough, that i don't think this Twitter-like-style of public slaughter is necessary. Again, my personal opinion, nothing more.

practice of suppressing speech or other public communication is illegal or against social norms.

Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)
@Unixorn - 90% Snark by weight @Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
in reply to 白川間瀬流

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@vamp898 @pteryx @unixorn Hey 白川間瀬流, the politeness of the message is an illusion.

It's full of manipulation tactics such as flattery and seduction ('masterpiece/wonderful/beautiful/magical') , a call to social norm (eg. "many conservative parents worlwide", "different cultures"), playing the victim (eg. "more accessible", also a 'mirroring' tactic using a vocabulary used by people caring about other humans).

Showing it publicly might prepare and help more vulnerable authors receiving this.

@Unixorn - 90% Snark by weight @Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary @白川間瀬流
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

白川間瀬流

@pteryx @unixorn I do not disagree with that. Either he is very clever or naive.

Either way, especially when he is actually clever, he archived what he wanted. spreading anger. I 100% understand your urge to call him out, but i fear that maybe is exactly what he wanted so he can say "I wrote a nice mail and got roasted, those people are bad, they prevent free speach".

How about using this Mail as inspiration for something good? Short Spin-off focusing on the relationship?^^

@Unixorn - 90% Snark by weight @Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Fell

I always try to view things from both sides. So, as a parent, you may think that "cis heterosexual" is the path of least resistance and it may prevent difficulties for your child in the future. I have some understanding for this view.

However, apart from what they may think is right for the child, it won't change the reality that same-sex relationships exist and should be accepted as normal. Less common perhaps, but normal.

Instead, they attempt to warp reality for their children.

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Rolf Blijleven 🔻

You're in good company. Charles M. Schulz got similar mail when Franklin, the black kid, first appeared in Peanuts. 1968.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankl…

Franklin (Peanuts) - Wikipedia

Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)
This entry was edited (9 months ago)

reshared this

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Arcane Brew

People.

People can express their opinion, but at times we do so without being thoughtful or considerate.

How long do they plan on their children living with them so as to "avoid exposing" them to reality?

Have they reflected on how they are "exposing" their children to their devaluation of some people over others and the long-term effect that will have in their interactions with others?

Also, them asking YOU to change to accommodate them, ugh - Rude, no matter the sweetness.

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Em & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️‍🌈

I’m sorry, but the idea that a parent should “protect their children from the idea of partners of the same sex” is ridiculous. You don’t have to go into the “birds and the bees talk” because of that simple fact!🤣
The couple were kissing! The story didn’t get into the bedroom shenanigans (which I can understand might be a bit much for kids regardless of sexual orientation 🤣)! Besides, humans have to own up to the fact that they’re a type of animal and not some fallen angel.
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

AlexTECPlayz

Right, because kids can only see a man and a woman kissing on the lips. As if same-sex, same-gender kisses are heretical and utterly forbidden, it'll turn your kids gay and trans!

As if children would even care about this distinction in the first place, without their parents intervening and feeding them religious or bigoted slop through indoctrination.

I for one, never had an issue with this, ever since I was young. I managed to stay away from deep religious beliefs despite having an Orthodox upbringing up until I was 12.

in reply to David Revoy

glitchsoc - Link to source

ketzer0815

The good thing is: I now have a new thing to read and enjoy.
Don’t let your energy be consumed by such emails. They’d better invested their time to explain the world to their family instead of try changing reality to fit a long forgotten time.
For my followers, it is available in many languages (link to german): peppercarrot.com/de/webcomic/e…

Episode 36: Der Überraschungsangriff - Pepper&Carrot

Offizielle Homepage von Pepper&Carrot, einem freien und quelloffenen Webcomic über Pepper, eine junge Hexe, und ihren Kater Carrot. Sie leben in einer Welt voller Zaubertränke, Magie und fantastischer Kreaturen.
Pepper&Carrot
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Mullana

Let's be frank, they're always US people. 🙄 There's hardly another culture this entitled.

Miriam Bonastre Tur recently had to age her main characters three years up because US people couldn't tolerate 18 and 19 year old characters drinking at a party. m.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/mari…
TBH, I always thought it's already a compromise that they're 18 and not 16. It would fit the world building much more for them to be younger. But apparently, people can't accept fiction as fiction anymore. 🙄

Marionetta - (S2) Episode 62

A mysterious circus. A missing friend. A dangerous deal. Julia Lazarrett is happy with her honest, predictable life. But when her best friend Kamille convinces her to visit a travelling circus, they both get more than for which they bargained.
www.webtoons.com
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Ry Chaz

Oh my goodness. A narcissistic case of 'Would you be so kind as to tailor your creativity to pander to my narrow world view based on mythology and denialism'.

It deserved a definite no.

What is it with these people and their need to deny and warp reality rather than realise that the world isn't only how they specifically were brought up, or their choice of book, and that is okay. What a pointlessly scared way to live, divide and hate.

This entry was edited (9 months ago)
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@Suiseiseki @anathem @valkyrie You are right. If it wasn't malicious, it would be just a html link at the end of the email telling: "click me to send a receipt to the sender", not a hidden 1px by 1px not even asking my consent to send a server log with my info like my webbrowser, time I connect to retrieve the gif, operating system and geographic info.
@v @GNU/翠星石 @Dave
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Dr Neenah Estrella-Luna

May I suggest your lawyer identify the mailing address of this individual and perhaps respond as the lawyer of the Cleveland Browns did to differently stupid correspondence.

snopes.com/fact-check/clevelan…

Letter Exchange Between Law Firm and Cleveland Browns

A lawyer received a caustic response after complaining to the Cleveland Browns about fans' throwing paper airplanes during the team's home NFL games.
David Mikkelson (Snopes.com)
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Brokar

Write back:

Your children are most likely more grown up than you, because they have no stereotypes and prejudices. You might want to take yourself an example on them, unless you want to project your smallminded perspectives on them and narrow their view on the world for the rest of their lives. Let them find their own place without bias.

And David:
don't you dare change a thing on the story! Nobody cares if she does not like it, a thousand others do, very much.

This entry was edited (9 months ago)
in reply to David Revoy

glitchsoc - Link to source

Serge from Babka

The more time I spend with the letter, the more I see nuances.

Firstly, to their credit, the author isn't admonishing you directly, and they are saying their perspective out loud, which I think is positive. They aren't saying "This is immoral", etc. only that for her and people like her, this isn't acceptable, but he names who those people are, which is good.

...which is what it is. The work isn't for her.

What I think is interesting is how invisible culture is to people.

What might she think of the bisou. People kissing each other's faces all the time would probably freak her out.

But what if she was a Haredi Orthodox Jew, and you had two non-married people of the opposite sex holding hands?

Or what if she was a conservative Muslim offended by Pepper not covering her head?

Like I said, at least she acknowledges her specific perspective.

And anyway, they're free to modify P&C as per the license. 😀

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

RRB

How about sending the characters to a conversion camp where they get tortured until they renounce their true feelings and spend the rest of their life in psychological agony caused by denying their true feelings?

Would you be willing to do that to satisfy this concerned parent?

It would serve as a warning to their children as to what parents like this are willing to do to them.

in reply to David Revoy

glitchsoc - Link to source

Asta McCarthy

Somehow toots like this make me find the support page :blobgrin: peppercarrot.com/en/support/in… :blobrainbow:

Stay strong and keep up the good work! 🌈💪

#homophobia #censorship #gay #Christian

Support - Pepper&Carrot

Official homepage of Pepper&Carrot, a free(libre) and open-source webcomic about Pepper, a young witch and her cat, Carrot. They live in a fantasy universe of potions, magic, and creatures.
Pepper&Carrot
#gay #censorship #homophobia #christian
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Paulo Delgado

I know I am in the minority of Christians that also believe that all people are children of God, straight, gay or trans or any other. I'm glad you are not changing your art; it wasn't wrong so there's nothing to fix. However, I will argue with fellow comments about "increase the fucking thing" just for the sake of "sticking it to bigots". Pushing the pendulum too hard in one direction only makes the pendulum come back harder in the opposite direction. We should strive for harmony.
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Martin

@Erpel @neomojimixer @edgeofeurope So, their God X created something and god Y, that does not exist as there is only one god, created something as well and it is up to some of the created creatures that do not know any of the gods to differ between those created from their god and those created by the non-existing god? Absolutely reasonable if rules of logic are dismissed and rational parts of brain disappeared in a puff.
@Rob van Kan🔻 @Erpel @Neomojimixer
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Pseudo Nym

Good for you.

Indirectly, I suppose I should thank the bigots. Now I've found a new web comic to read. Just a few episodes in, and it is charming.

I find the "I'm just trying to help you get seen by more people" tone strongly indicative of AI slop messaging.

Such folks have trouble even feigning concern for someone else. The writing is soulless, presumably like the prompter.

Keep in exactly as much gay as you think your story warrants.

I love seeing folks be creative.

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Berto, un huargo (a warg)

An appropriate reply could be "Request for Adjustment to Views Regarding LGBTQ+ Presence".

Their argument, that their suggestion would be accommodating of different cultures, is quite erasive of the presence of LGBTQ+ people everywhere.

It's an example of misappropriating the language of inclusion towards oppression; i.e. it's another form of "tolerating the intolerant", where they want their intolerance of historically marginalized communities to be the dominant and only visible view.

This entry was edited (9 months ago)
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Ivan Sagalaev

I remember when my 8 year old daughter first saw this panel she felt confused and embarrassed, and it was an excellent cue for us to explain to her that yes, sometimes girls love girls and there's nothing wrong with it. I think it was her first introduction to the idea of same-sex love, and seeing it in her favorite comic made it easier to understand. Thanks for that!
in reply to nboynorge

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@nboynorge ☺️
You can scroll episode 36 here: peppercarrot.com/en/webcomic/e… to find the panel in the context of the episode.

The comic page in English with the panel in high resolution is here: peppercarrot.com/0_sources/ep3…

Episode 36: The Surprise Attack - Pepper&Carrot

Official homepage of Pepper&Carrot, a free(libre) and open-source webcomic about Pepper, a young witch and her cat, Carrot. They live in a fantasy universe of potions, magic, and creatures.
Pepper&Carrot
@nboynorge
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Nemo_bis 🌈

Thanks! Reading this episode out of context, I didn't immediately realise which pair was supposedly being too gay, because the kissing couple's assumed genders aren't obvious to me.

What *is* very obvious is the "make love not war" message. If one misses that, they're clearly not trying to propagate the message of the comic.

I wonder if your books are about to be banned in some libraries across the pond.
lccn.loc.gov/2019202002

#PepperCarrot

LCCN Permalink - No Connections Available

The LC Catalog is a database of records describing the Library's vast collections of books, serials, manuscripts, maps, music, recordings, images, and electronic resources.
lccn.loc.gov
#peppercarrot
in reply to piku minor!

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@piku Thank you, yes okular.kde.org/ has a thumbnail with this episode on it: peppercarrot.com/en/webcomic/e…

💜 Okular

Okular - The Universal Document Viewer

Multi-platform, fast and packed with features, Okular allows you to read PDF documents, comics and EPub books, browse images, visualize Markdown documents, and much more.
Okular - The Universal Document Viewer
@piku minor!
Unknown parent

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

grutjes

Thanks for revealing your true self @SP! Before I block you with pleasure, consider this:

Although you as an IT guy are apparently deeply invested in "natural behaviour" (??) so are LHBTIQ. If you would ever take the trouble of experiencing nature, you would know that animals are just like people, and a large minority of them is gay.

On the other hand, did you ever see an animal that tried to stay virgin until marriage?

What puzzles me the most about Christian bigots like you is this:

If you believe in an omnipotent God that created man in His image, where do you get the audacity to claim that He made a mistake when creating gays?

I'm sure things went very different. When god created men like you, she was only kidding.

in reply to LisPi

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@lispi314 @ache yes, a license notice with what was changed by the author of the derivation.
I tried to make a documentation about the best practice for attribution once, peppercarrot.com/en/documentat…

120_License_best_practices - Documentation - Pepper&Carrot

Official homepage of Pepper&Carrot, a free(libre) and open-source webcomic about Pepper, a young witch and her cat, Carrot. They live in a fantasy universe of potions, magic, and creatures.
Pepper&Carrot
@ache @LisPi
in reply to David Revoy

glitchsoc - Link to source

Minnà Pandora

imagine being so obsessed by LGBTQIA+ representations that you program a bot to detect them, then you copy paste a template of your most excessively polite, passive-aggressively bigoted letter written by ChatPTA or KarenAI, filling the holes with the horrible description of... checking notes two girls kissing and a third one stating the obvious.
in reply to Arthur Vuillard

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@arthru ☺️
Alors pour Lyon, rien de prévu mais la semaine dernière une médiathèque à fait un appel à auteurs et un copain m'a fait postulé après m'avoir demandé si ça m’intéressait. Donc, affaire à suivre, si ça ce fait, ça sera sur le blog.

Sinon, en date prochainement: j'ai Paris début Mars, Limoge fin Mars, et Saint-Brieuc en début Juillet. Idem, je posterai deux semaines avant les événements des billets sur mon blog.

@Arthur Vuillard
in reply to Martin

glitchsoc - Link to source

Vox and the Pack

@tanteju5 the whole concept of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god is absurd and paradoxical on many layers.

But that is why it's "belief" and why "belief" is a virtue. You ought to believe it to be true despite the lack of plausibility. It's fundamentally not rational and therefore it's hard to reason people out of it.

I don't wish to take religion and spirituality from those who practice it purely for themselves. But successful major religions by design have built-in mechanisms through which they spread (missionaries etc.) as otherwise they would have never gotten their large following in the first place. And that by definition means trying to impose their religious values on other "non-believing" people. -Vox

@Erpel @edgeofeurope

@Rob van Kan🔻 @Erpel @Martin
This entry was edited (9 months ago)
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Mr. Greeb

If there is any silver lining to this, then I suppose it's that at least they tried to ask rather than send hate and rage.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that they don't seem to respect your choices. But in this polarized world, I'll admit that it was... somehow a relief to see someone with a world view I fundamentally disagree with try make a polite request rather than a hateful demand.

in reply to thedoctor

gotosocial - Link to source

sotolf

I've tried that, but I grew tired of it, so now if I feel that there is reason for it I try to do benefit of the doubt, but in cases like this where I don't really see it, here is someone demanding that someone else changes their art because "it makes their feefees hurt to have people, they think should not exist, express joy" Then I have no real wish to even spare a thought on what they "may have meant"
in reply to thedoctor

gotosocial - Link to source

sotolf

Who else would have problems with two people of the same gender kissing, and then bring out the "would someone please think of the children!" arguement? I don't know, it might be my weird gang of people that I'm around but personally I've never seen anyone else that actually would care so much about it that they would actually write the artist. And I grew up in a very blue collar family.
in reply to That username

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@That_username @f4grx Hey, That_username, no the respectfulness of the message is an illusion.

It's full of manipulation tactics such as flattery, charm and seduction ('masterpiece/wonderful/beautiful/magical') , a call to social norm (eg. "many conservative parents worlwide", "different cultures"), playing the victim (eg. "more accessible", also a 'mirroring' tactic using a vocabulary used by people caring about other humans).

Respectfulness in surface but not at core is not respectfulness.

@F4GRX Sébastien @That username
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

dataf#z̧̽̿̋̊̊̃ͨ̎̈́҉z̎̃ͦ̍͋͛̆ͯ͜

these are not "concerned" individuals there are operational radical groups out there to censor accessible media such as yours. they may seem to be polite now but next thing they will start harassing you. consider outing their names and email addresses. please don't cover for them. it helps to know and document their reach and network.
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

PP44

this is an incredible email to write ! How can people feel so much fear/hate toward a representation that :
- Is literally a display of love
- Is not about them or impact them in any way
- Is a work of *fiction*
(- and of course respect consent)

Wanting to impose your life choices on others, about absolutly harmless choices, is something I just don't understand. I feel so sad for the children raised by parents with this kind of consideration in mind 😞

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Giselle

What a bloody cheek! As we say here in the UK. I get the feeling that this might be part of a bigger campaign by not just this person but others too. I hope they get LOADS of pushback.

Not that you have to but I would be so tempted to write back along the lines of, yes, isn't it wonderful that there are many couples, same-sex, opposite-sex, etc, who love each other and it is such a joy to write about them all! With your encouragement I'll write even more about same-sex couples!!

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

calcifer 🧯

@RadicalEdward I will never understand the parents who think that they’re doing a good thing by “not exposing kids to” things they’d prefer didn’t exist.

I’d be doing such a huge disservice towards my kids if I tried to keep them from hearing about things like fundamentalism, for example. Instead of keeping it from them, why would you not want to simply discuss your values when such things come up?

@Radical Edward
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Kit Rhett Aultman

What I find most offensive about this "request" is the idea that somehow it's a good thing for you to compromise your creative vision so that it's palatable for an audience you have no interest in catering to in the first place.

I'd be inclined to say something like "Thank you for your email, but I fear you are mistaken about the nature of your relationship to Pepper & Carrot. It is not intended for people who aren't comfortable sharing same-sex relationships with their children."

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Ronald Marillier

The key is patience not aggression.

I'm no homophobe, at least I think I'm not. I have gay friends, hell a very good gay friend was the best man at my wedding. With older folks, genZ and below Media did not portray homosexuality often.

It's like making a vegetarian consume meat or vica versa.

Not everybody can deal with a quick change like that.

Be patient a little more informative. Aggression won't f

in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

Ronald Marillier

"Christian Values" have little to do with it. It is a cultural response.

I am a christian. - just know that Jesus himself chilled not with the "those who upheld the Law" but with those outside of the normal "the law" who are not only the sinners but also tax collectors etc.

The issue is media exposure from a cultural perspective. Homo/bi/etc sexuality was never a common thing in media over the ages.

Media is consumed. Ask a veggie to suddenly eat meat and vica versa..WWJD?

⇧