Bringing this highly requested feature to #Mastodon and the fediverse is not as trivial as some might think, but quote posts are coming. Here is our latest write-up about our progress:
blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/02/…
Bringing Quote Posts to Mastodon
Sharing our thinking and progress on bringing Quote Posts to Mastodon, with a goal to create a safe and respectful space for everyone.Mastodon Blog
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FoW
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •nullagent reshared this.
Shanie MyrsTear
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •I love it, but can you also focus on fetching replies from other servers so Mastodon can actually be contextually aware?
There's even a pull request.
github.com/mastodon/mastodon/p…
Add Fetch All Replies Part 1: Backend by sneakers-the-rat · Pull Request #32615 · mastodon/mastodon
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Andy Piper
in reply to Shanie MyrsTear • • •Mathias Hasselmann
in reply to Andy Piper • • •Shlee moshed around and
in reply to Shanie MyrsTear • • •@shanie Considering a quote is just a fancy reply....
Perfect Quote Toots kind of require 3 major things to be solved in any order:
* Quote toots
* Toot Control
* Reply Sync
James Smith 💾
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Arun Shah™
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Greg Wiggleton
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •gmc likes this.
The Tattooed Nonna 👑
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Only about 5% are used with any integrity imo
So I'll be opting out .
Alien_Sunset
in reply to The Tattooed Nonna 👑 • • •@Tattooed_Mummy @konkrit
Is also worth keeping in mind that one can also turn off boosts by individual users, so while boosting is nice, it’s not a ‘foolproof’ way to get followers to see something. Same as if they do not follow the original poster, that will not see your replies to them.
But boosting a post with commentary is a great way to ensure fillers will not only see the post but your thoughts as well
1/2
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Alien_Sunset
in reply to Alien_Sunset • • •@Tattooed_Mummy @konkrit
One of my favorite ways to use it is to boost art and my thoughts on how it makes me feel and why i like it, rather than contextless reposting.
Another use is when the post inspired thoughts that are only tangentially related, or long and rambling, that might not really fit in the op’s replies, but you want to include the op for context.
Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Alien_Sunset • • •@Alien_Sunset Apologies, but I'll do a very meta thing here by only posting a link in response to the last point you've made: mastodon.social/@konkrit/11400…
Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
2025-02-14 17:17:20
Alien_Sunset
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit
but if the post you are making is not 100% related but only referencing the quoted post for context, the reader then has to navigate BACK to your post to be able to continue the conversation.
i know of many people that get very annoyed when people create tangents in their replies that aren't strictly related to their posts, muddying the conversational waters and blowing up their mentions with stuff they don't care about. this is a way to keep that from happening.
Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Alien_Sunset • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Alien_Sunset
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit
I mean yeah, it’s not an engagement factory, so why are you annoyed someone moving the (likely unrelated) conversation away from your post?
but seriously, if i didn’t want to be able to have conversations with my friends about things we are interested in, i would just go into the field out back and yell at the stars. Is it so wrong to want to make things a little easier for me and my friends to chat and connect?
The Tattooed Nonna 👑
in reply to Alien_Sunset • • •tivasyk likes this.
Alien_Sunset
in reply to The Tattooed Nonna 👑 • • •And, like, that’s your prerogative, I don’t think I’d like to follow someone that does nothing but quote posts either, but I don’t really think that’s going to be its main use case, more than likely (at least for the people i follow) it will continue to be as how they already post with links but with quotes and therefore that much more convenient for all of us
dominic
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to dominic • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •GunChleoc
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •The lack of a quoting feature is part of the reason that we can't attract many black people, because they are using quotes to keep themselves safe.
You and I may not need or want it, but they do.
The fediverse is far too white, so we should cater to their needs.
Edit: Here's a thread by a renowned black scholar on the subject: zirk.us/@shengokai/10934702727…
Dr. Johnathan Flowers (@shengokai@zirk.us)
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el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
in reply to GunChleoc • • •@gunchleoc @konkrit @barometz
black people or African American people?
🤔
GunChleoc
in reply to el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 • • •el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
in reply to GunChleoc • • •@gunchleoc @konkrit @barometz
I'm asking because I read some posts that the feature is very useful for the Black community, but these posts come only from accounts part of, or related to, the African American community.
So, it may be that this feature that will be implemented will be useful in the American culture, but may be harmful to people of other cultures and countries (which is what I experienced).
GunChleoc
in reply to el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 • • •@elCelio @konkrit @barometz The problem is that every feature can be used both in a positive manner and in a destructive manner.
A good example of feature misuse is flooding moderators with report spam - we still do need a reporting feature though!
GunChleoc
in reply to GunChleoc • • •The only thing one can do is make a risk assessment and mitigate the potential harms, and it sounds like the Mastodon team is taking their time and collecting lots of feedback for their implementation, e.g. their plan is that you can disallow being quoted in your profile, or unhook your post from a quote.
el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
in reply to GunChleoc • • •yes, I like that they thought about that instead of rolling it out immediately.
Jon
in reply to el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 • • •It's a good point, the work on Black digital practices (including quote tweets) I'm familiar with is all very US-based.
@elCelio @gunchleoc @konkrit @barometz
Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit "I have zero understanding for why people would want it."
That surprises me. "We have learned that many groups use Quote Posts as their primary means to build consensus and community on other platforms. Quote Posts used in this way convey trust and respect for the original post, building on or enhancing an original idea."
Even if that's not been your experience, surely you can understand that others' has been different. (Mine included, for what it's worth.)
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Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit In the end, the argument is that there are communities that want this, even though you are not a member of any of them. And the devs are bending over backwards to give both those communities and you what they want.
For what it's worth, I very often quote-post someone whose post introduces a subject that I want to comment further on. (Or I did, back when I was on the Hellsite.)
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Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit @mike yeah, I second this - often, the thing that people (think they) want, may not be the best way to go.
Think about it, if you ask anyone, they will say they want lower taxes. But then if everyone's taxes were lowered, the roads would be filled with potholes etc.
People are (generally) really bad at assessing the deeper consequences of their desires, when implemented.
So, I'm with Kristoffer on this. Though I think many will opt out of it altogether, and I am hopeful because of that, it won't harm our communities all that much 🙏🏼
Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵 • • •@bazkie @konkrit Your tax examples is apposite. But as the blogpost shows, a LOT of thought has gone into this. It's not as though the developers just went "Oh, some people like QTs, better add them".
Anyway, we're unlikely to agree on whether they might the right choice, but I hope we can at least agree that they have moved slowly, carefully and sensitively ... in the direction you didn't want.
bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •Rastal
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit @mike People want this feature because they want to quote, rather than reply. In order words, they don't want to engage in two way conversation they want a one sided monologue.
The only people who want this feature are those who used this feature on X / Twitter, who then migrated to Mastodon because want an alternative to X / Twitter, as long as that alternative is exactly the same as X / Twitter.
The whole purpose of quotes is not to reply. It serves no other function.
Janeishly
in reply to Rastal • • •Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Janeishly • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit
> my point wasn't "I don't like this, so no-one should have it," and rather "I don't think this will benefit the community as a whole."
Yes, I get that distinction, and it's an important one!
Jürgen Hubert
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit @mike The demographics of #Mastodon - and the #Fediverse - are not particularly diverse, and mostly reflect white Europeans and North Americans (with the main exception being Japanese #Misskey users).
This is not good, and if we can change our underlying technology (*) to make Mastodon attractive to people outside of these groups, then in my opinion we should do so. The revolution will not be successful if it is not global.
(*) Of course, we also need to implement _cultural_ changes to make the Fediverse more attractive to non-white demographics - there is only so much that technology on its own can do.
Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •My primary use-case is taking an English-language post as a starting-point for a post in Norwegian. Don't want to clutter up a thread with my local issues.. @mike
Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸 • • •Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸
in reply to Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸 • • •@konkrit E.g. I'd like to point to this chaos.social/@slothrop/1140128… and say "Vi trenger en debatt om norsk medlemskap i EU NÅ ! " @qmike@sauropods.win
Rocketman
2025-02-16 09:38:42
author_is_ShrikeTron🔠💉x7
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Automating quote posting allows adding **Context** to blindly Boosting somebody else's Post/Boost. It's like ALT text for Boosts.
It will allow ME to add Content Warning wrappers around other people's posts that didn't, reducing Boost spammage.
I currently hate Following on Mastodon because it conflates Network spread via Boost with "I want to explain somebody's post". I can't separate the two.
Also, manual copy-pasting linkage is Luddite. Drove the Journalists away.
Dame_
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit @mike@sauropods.win if you care in good faith there here’s some sources privacy.thenexus.today/black-t…
absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2022/…
techpolicy.press/the-whiteness…
The Whiteness of Mastodon
Justin Hendrix (Tech Policy Press)Mike Taylor 🦕
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •@konkrit @barometz Note especially:
* You will be able to choose whether your posts can be quoted at all.
* You will be notified when someone quotes you.
* You will be able to withdraw your post from the quoted context at any time.
sotolf
in reply to Mike Taylor 🦕 • • •mxk
in reply to sotolf • • •@sotolf @mike @konkrit @barometz for the limiting/retracting to work, your server needs to implement this.
But this whole discussion/proposal is somewhat miss guided, since this only can limit the new native quote toots, while nothing can stop anyone from just linking to toots, like we all do now.
This tries to enforce something, that can only work if people play nice.
sotolf
in reply to mxk • • •tshepang
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@MastodonEngineering
Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to tshepang • • •tshepang
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to tshepang • • •Alien_Sunset
in reply to tshepang • • •That requires extra clicks AND navigating away from your post where the main comments are,
It makes people have to read your post first before the context/op, effectively putting the cart before the horse
Kristoffer Lawson
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit that's client visual implementation detail. No need to have the added view on top. The point is to give context to why something is being shared, or additional commentary.
The reason why it's commonly 'on top' is that it's often easier to understand the post if you know the context/reason-shared, before viewing the post.
Martin Schlegel
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Martin Schlegel • • •Martin Schlegel
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Martin Schlegel • • •@martinschlegel I see all that. But the more people, especially public figures, come on here, the tougher moderation will become. In the long run, I believe it could have similar effects like on Twitter before.
Regarding your second point: You can always post a response directly, why is that not enough? You see, the thing that I think is so poisoneous about quote-posting is that it diverts attention away from an original statement and that this is not exactly constructive for debate in my view.
Martin Schlegel
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Martin Schlegel • • •Mathias Hasselmann
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit The point is: Quote posting already happens in certain clients, and in the worst possible, most harassing way. As I see it the Mastdon team isn't really adding a new feature. They "simply" try to regulate a feature that's known to be harmful.
If this effort succeeds and client authors replace their abusable implementations of quote posts with the official mechanism, you'll simply opt-out from quote posts and you'll be as safe as anyone could be.
Kristoffer Patrick Cornils
in reply to Mathias Hasselmann • • •el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
in reply to Mathias Hasselmann • • •@taschenorakel @konkrit
so if you opt-out, you won't be quote-posted, but you still will see quote posts from others, and they get attention: I don't think the harassing behaviour would diminish much.
But anyway good thing that the devs thought about some limitations to the negative effect of this feature.
Glass half full.
Mathias Hasselmann
in reply to el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 • • •That's really the point: Quote-posting happens anyway. By some Fediverse clients that already offer it in their UI, by people who simply share screenshots.
Therefore I really just see this as an effort to guide baseline behavior in the network: By offering a convenient, but somewhat safe version most people might be too lazy to practice malicious quote-posting.
el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
in reply to Mathias Hasselmann • • •@taschenorakel @konkrit
yes I know there are ways around (i.e. screenshots and others), but they require some effort.
A lot of quote posting I saw and see in other platforms don't even require such an extra effort, which means there are a lot more around. And most of them are negative quote-posts.
As I said, good to see that they thought of some safeguards (but I'll continue to prefer a boost-reply environment that a quote posts one).
Mathias Hasselmann
in reply to el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 • • •@elCelio @konkrit Well, as a politically active person and member of our community council I don't have the privilege to boost-reply everything I see.
Bad wording, controversial reasoning in a otherwise sane post will cast a bad light on my community, my supporters, me.
I would greatly benefit from the ability to comment controversial content when boosting.
Still I absolutely share your opinion that each reply to a post shall be visible to any legit reader of thread.
@MastodonEngineering
Danijel Bukvasevic
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Joe
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •L
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •@konkrit
Isn't this already possible by posting a screenshot or link?
@MastodonEngineering
Matěȷ
in reply to Kristoffer Patrick Cornils • • •Mostafa Hussein Omar
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •gmc doesn't like this.
JP
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •JP
in reply to JP • • •in my opinion - i wish i had some studies handy to back this up - text-above (eg how twitter did it) overwhelmingly contributes to "dunk" culture problems that i have not seen on text-below platforms (tumblr, cohost). it influences both how and *what* people quote. please consider making text-below the default.
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Julian Fietkau
in reply to JP • • •specs-background/quote-posts/quote-posts-research-and-goals.md at main · mastodon/specs-background
GitHubGuerric Haché
in reply to Julian Fietkau • • •Bee O'Problem
in reply to JP • • •@jplebreton seconding this one
Twitter style seems to encourage "get a load of this guy" style prejudging of the quoted post while Tumblr style I see either memeing off of a post or quote/boost with comment
Maxi 12x 💉
in reply to Bee O'Problem • • •+1 for text-below placement! It really creates a better social environment.
bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
in reply to Maxi 12x 💉 • • •Guerric Haché
in reply to bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵 • • •I agree, my experience with text-below quoting platforms has been *much* more positive than text-above.
It's certainly possible that's not a real root cause of the cultural difference. But given that Mastodon et al. can make a choice here, it seems prudent that they are picking the format associated with less harm.
Mr. Funk E. Dude
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •It's actually much more trivial
Use a #Fediverse account that can do this.
Use #Pleroma#Akkoma#Misskey#Sharkey#IceShrimp#Catodon#Foundkey#Friendica etc.
All these accesses to the #Fediverse have been able to do this for years
@MastodonEngineering@mastodon.social
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Maxi 12x 💉
in reply to crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts • • •crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts
in reply to Maxi 12x 💉 • • •Maxi 12x 💉
in reply to crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts • • •crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts
in reply to Maxi 12x 💉 • • •Mathias Hasselmann
in reply to crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts • • •@crossgolf_rebel @frumble This mechanism kind of works for tiny networks. It doesn't work for greater networks: Greater networks attract a bigger number of people who try to harass and threaten other people. The #Fediverse simply will fail, if it fails to protect its users.
Therefore I hope that this initiative results in a well discussed, widely accepted proposal, which also gets adopted by the early implementers of similar features.
We need the Fediverse to succeed!
salguod, man 🍂🍁 lazysupper
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Flock of Cats 🐈 🐈 🐈 🎄
in reply to salguod, man 🍂🍁 lazysupper • • •Counterpoint:
Flock of Cats 🐈 🐈 🐈 🎄
in reply to Flock of Cats 🐈 🐈 🐈 🎄 • • •@lazysupper though there are good, I agree.
I guess these controls would cover a lot of bases and if someone evades them with screenshots, etc., it makes it more clearcut when there is harassment or bad behavior
Guerric Haché
in reply to Flock of Cats 🐈 🐈 🐈 🎄 • • •salguod, man 🍂🍁 lazysupper
in reply to Flock of Cats 🐈 🐈 🐈 🎄 • • •@FlockOfCats
Point: (or is it counter-Counterpoint?):
You can do that now. So it's not really a counterpoint to the adding the feature.
@MastodonEngineering
Benjamin Kwiecień 🇵🇸
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Renewable Sexcellence
in reply to Benjamin Kwiecień 🇵🇸 • • •EdCasting · 📡 🔵
in reply to Renewable Sexcellence • • •WTL
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Guillotine Jones, Flâneur
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •And thank YOU for quote posts, oh mighty Mastodon!
Chris Hayes
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Interesting. I appreciate that Mastodon will allow users control how their toots can quoted.
One extra enhancement I would love is being able to choose whether my timeline shows quoted toots. When they land, I'll give them a try. But, I'm really quite happy not having quote toots on Mastodon. I enjoy seeing original content in my timeline, I'm not a fan of the idea of seeing a ton of one-liner quote reactions added to it.
House Panther
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Linux Is Best reshared this.
Linux Is Best
in reply to House Panther • • •In life, everything that can be abused, will be abused by someone, but that should not stop us from having great things.
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House Panther
in reply to Linux Is Best • • •Spencer
in reply to House Panther • • •Andy Piper
in reply to House Panther • • •EdCasting · 📡 🔵
in reply to House Panther • • •Thomas P. Moonis
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Zem 🇪🇹 🇪🇺
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Mastodon Migration
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •☝️ Very interesting and informative article on Quote Posting. Key points:
"In order to mitigate these issues, we plan to include several features in our implementation:
-You will be able to choose whether your posts can be quoted at all.
-You will be notified when someone quotes you.
-You will be able to withdraw your post from the quoted context at any time."
#QuotePost
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Ride Theory
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Oh no. I watched a friend devolve from a perfectly nice guy into a complete troglodyte after the bird site introduced quote tweets. It was painful to watch it happen.
I will be opting out, and I encourage others to do so. Quote posts will be abused.
白川間瀬流
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •finally I can use post from others to my benefit without benefiting them. That's important. You don't want to share to help others gain momentum, you want that momentum yourself with their content.
No but serious for a second, why implement it at all? What about misskey and other instances? Will they be able to prevent quoting? It's playing with fire but for what benefit?
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Ned Yeung
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Lutin Discret
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •my biggest concern about quote-posts is: what about quote-posting a quote post? How ill it be rendered? When you show a quote-post, you must show the quote with the comment or the comment itself won't make sense for lack of context. If the quote post is about a quote post you must also show the quoted post, quoted content to have the whole context, etc. What's your design about that?
cc @Claire
Renaud Chaput
in reply to Lutin Discret • • •isabel
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Anne Roth
in reply to isabel • • •„We’re working on it, but Quote Posts will still take more time to develop.“ 😢
FvH 🦣
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Kristoffer Lawson
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •[REDACTED]™
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •william.maggos
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •I'd rather we have something like the ability to share a post but with a pointer to a reply. So it looks like a QP but only to your followers. To everyone else, it is a reply. And this means it stays attached but subservient to the OP.
I'd also like to see all replies rankable ala reddit. This would give us something like Community Notes, where the top responses are show up right under the OP. And the worst stuff for popular posts would be easily ignored.
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Kailas Idavanmuzhi
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •reshared this
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spidey
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Andy Piper
in reply to spidey • • •nicolas ⁂
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Good to see this feature getting thoughtful consideration!
One more element could be the ability to like/boost/save the original post easily, and not only the quote post. That can avoid another pitfall of quote posts: the quote getting more attention than the original.
Edit: Adding a quick and dirty edit of your mockup with added actions on the original post, just to illustrate the point :)
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william.maggos
Unknown parent • • •I assume you'd still be able to link to a post, it just wouldn't show up like a QP. You'd still be able to do what you do now when QPs don't exist on mastodon.
The distinction is a bit weird but I guess some people really want it to look pretty.
Chris
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Apan
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •"What post?" - User A
"A seams like changed the quote status, here is an screenshot of the orginial post" - User B
Guerric Haché
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •I'm skeptical about the long-term social benefits of this feature, but I appreciate that you're building in user-level controls to try to mitigate harm, so I'm curious to see how it goes. I have a few questions:
1) Will users be able to opt one specific post out of *all* quotes? Or will they need to go individually retract the post from each place it has been quoted, potentially hundreds in the case of a large harassment effort?
Guerric Haché
in reply to Guerric Haché • • •2) Will changes to user account settings apply, or be given an option to apply, retroactively to previously quoted content?
3) Will individual instances be able to disable the feature or limit it in some way?
Guerric Haché
in reply to Guerric Haché • • •Guerric Haché
in reply to Guerric Haché • • •I see some of this was touched on in the specs shared elsewhere! Excellent.
I'm mostly left wondering about 3), as well as what options will be available for users whose post has received, say, 100 hostile quotes - after locking down that post, will they need to go through 100 individual, potentially abusive quotes and manually revoke them one by one?
Renaud Chaput
in reply to Guerric Haché • • •Guerric Haché
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •Jazzonbike
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •chad006
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •sheislaurence
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Democracy Dies in Dumbass
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Pixel Light
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Fell
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Ujjwal
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Flaki
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •would "withdraw your post from the quoted context" include (conforming clients) also masking the link to the post? That would (will) be an interesting interop/implementation challenge requiring such a "conforming client" (or server) to willingly cooperate and abide by the request.
(this last bit is just musing to myself, I guess, happy to read more if there is a design document from your research that already discusses this)
On a high level I applaud the team trying to accommodate (and listen) to the diversity of voices advocating for & against the feature and looking forward to how it fares! 💜
Josh Glenn
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Daniel Casanueva
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Troed Sångberg
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Great post - very nice to see all the thinking laid out like this.
Thank you.
Simon
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Samuel Santaella
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Was gonna say that #Bluesky has the option to disconnect quotes from people's own posts.
I definitely like the three bullet point features you're planning for implementation (The third is what I'm referring to with the Bluesky option).
adingbatponder
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Aurin Azadî
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •gunstick
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Looking forward to having the additional features on this basic functionality.
Beachbum
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •🗣 FUCK YEAH & THANK YOU 🥳 🥳 🥳
@MastodonEngineering
rexi
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •woohoo: perfection, if it works.
"In order to mitigate these issues, we plan to include several features in our implementation:
‣ You will be able to choose whether your posts can be quoted at all.
‣ You will be notified when someone quotes you.
‣ You will be able to withdraw your post from the quoted context at any time."
#mastodon #quoteposts
Cat 🐈🥗 (D.Burch)
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •MisskeyMastodon (MFM) when?Lauren Weinstein
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Several issues of concern immediately arise related to your announced plans for quotable posts, at least one of which could trigger misinformation and related concerns.
First, unless I missed it, I did not see discussion of whether or not a quoted post could be edited after it was quoted. Obviously, the ability to do so could result in changes that completely altered the meaning of the quoting post that included the quoted post, whether unintentionally or intentionally.
While the inclusion of an "Edited" label on the quoted post would give some warning, the ability to alter the content of a quoted post at will still puts quoting posts at notable risk of manipulation.
Similarly, the ability to "at will" delete a quoted post at any time puts any quoting posts that included that quoted post (and subsequent replies/discussions) at risk of being completely marginalized, again whether that is the intended effect or not.
Finally, since any post can be ersatz "quoted" via screenshots, it is unclear what the purpose of a "do not quote" flag on a post will actually m
... Show more...Several issues of concern immediately arise related to your announced plans for quotable posts, at least one of which could trigger misinformation and related concerns.
First, unless I missed it, I did not see discussion of whether or not a quoted post could be edited after it was quoted. Obviously, the ability to do so could result in changes that completely altered the meaning of the quoting post that included the quoted post, whether unintentionally or intentionally.
While the inclusion of an "Edited" label on the quoted post would give some warning, the ability to alter the content of a quoted post at will still puts quoting posts at notable risk of manipulation.
Similarly, the ability to "at will" delete a quoted post at any time puts any quoting posts that included that quoted post (and subsequent replies/discussions) at risk of being completely marginalized, again whether that is the intended effect or not.
Finally, since any post can be ersatz "quoted" via screenshots, it is unclear what the purpose of a "do not quote" flag on a post will actually mean, other than adding some friction to the process of someone who intended to quote that post one way or another. In this sense, the flag gives the false impression that a post cannot be quoted, when in fact screenshot quoting would of course still be possible. Especially for new users, this could be significantly misleading. It could also be argued that the ability to edit and/or delete quoted posts may trigger a surge in screenshot-based quoting to avoid these uncertainties.
I have long felt that a native quoting function would be a significant asset to #Mastodon, but experiences with other social media platforms suggest that you may be repeating some of the same design errors that caused significant problems for those other platforms and their users -- and in some cases still do so.
Thanks for listening. Best, -L
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EdCasting · 📡 🔵
in reply to Lauren Weinstein • • •Lauren Weinstein
in reply to EdCasting · 📡 🔵 • • •@edcasting Basically, it boils down to: 1) Beware of unintended consequences and 2) Don't make promises that you may not be able to keep.
Essentially, giving users the "impression" that they can actually control quoting of their posts, when in reality any post can be "quoted" via screenshot without a technical way to block this, may create a situation actually worse than the status quo, since quoting will be considered more of a normal activity and screenshots (to get around posts that have "do not quote" flags) could actually increase overall. This kind of behavior is common on other social media platforms and realistically there are not good reasons to assume that they won't rise in popularity on this platform as well. Learn from history.
EdCasting · 📡 🔵
in reply to Lauren Weinstein • • •As for the frequency increase, I don't think this makes screenshotting more common; OTC it becomes more tedious, particularly for people used to it being automated.
Mathias Hasselmann
Unknown parent • • •Mathias Hasselmann
Unknown parent • • •@crossgolf_rebel @frumble So you are worried that the proposed mechanism can be circumvented? Of course it can be circumvented by working outside the protocol.
Still it usually are the built-in, the default mechanisms which set the baseline and define a social network's culture. That's what this proposal is talking about.
Kevin Russell
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Much gratitude for the news.
1st - just the news report, I suspect many here love hearing what's being worked on.
2nd, thanks for working on quote posts.
#mastodon
EdCasting · 📡 🔵
Unknown parent • • •Ric
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •when Elon wants to implement a feature, he gives the developers a week to build it or get the sack, and then rolls out a thing nobody wants, provoking ship jumps.
When Mastodon wants to implement a festure, they do tonnes of research, think it out, write protocol extensions, consider how other networks might want to use it, and then write the feature.
It's almost like you don't have to be a d*** to run a social network 🤔
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Mike Johnston
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
🇺🇸 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🐧 🥦
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •It is also a good sign that the decision makers have the ability to change their mind. Looking forward to it.
Mathias Hasselmann
Unknown parent • • •@crossgolf_rebel @frumble From what I see Mastdon follows the well documented and established FEP process.
Do you want to propose that Mastdon is not qualified to use the FEP process?
Do you question the FEP process at all?
What is the problem you want to address?
PS: If you want to discuss CW please explain your concerns in detail. I won't discuss yet another whistle blow.
Hiker
Unknown parent • • •Silmathoron ⁂
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Mike Griese
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •EdCasting · 📡 🔵
Unknown parent • • •myrmepropagandist
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •It's about time. This will make many of my posts calling attention to artwork and projects by others much more effective. I've been very frustrated with how difficult it is to do this ever since I joined.
Simply boosting and commenting then boosting the comment isn't the same.
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myrmepropagandist
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •One other use case:
I sometimes want to share political news, but it's not tagged with "us pol" and I promised those who follow me I'd use that tag unless it was really important. Or there is a funny image with no alt text.
The ability to add context means more things will get shared.
Heck, I know people who don't share my posts with insect photos because they have a few people who follow them who are scared of insects. This is a more elegant solution.
Georgiana Brummell likes this.
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Cassandrich
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •myrmepropagandist
in reply to Cassandrich • • •@dalias
Every person on here is a little part of the algorithm and we all do things to be considerate and make what we post meaningful and relevant to people we talk to regularly.
There has been so much worry about "abuse" (which is really mitigated by the quality of the participants in a community and everyone being listened to more than tech) many may be blindsided by the upside. 😀
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Jason Bowen 🇺🇦
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@futurebird @dalias
> I sometimes want to share political news, but it's not tagged with "us pol"
Yes! I've wanted to do exactly that quite a lot recently
Cassandrich
in reply to Jason Bowen 🇺🇦 • • •myrmepropagandist
in reply to Cassandrich • • •Yeah, I don't see why I should help keep people who do nothing but harm famous and important seeming in ways that go beyond the harm that they do and any effort to stop them.
Which is why I really don't want to hear any gossip about a whole collection of names that dominate the news. This seems to be part of what keeps them powerful and I don't know why more people can't see this.
Some Puffstool
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •It's been a long time coming. I welcome this feature coming with open arms.
The people who are against this are those that would be more at home on small niche forums and blogs. People who want every social media website to retain that early Reddit/Facebook/Tumblr vibe forever.
It's why I want more "normies" (i.e. non-techies) to come to Fedi. To drown out people who complain about every change no matter how much it improves UI/UX.
Doctors in Unite
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •EdCasting · 📡 🔵
Unknown parent • • •We'll have to disagree for now, but thanks for helping me understand the counter argument to this.
Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Gambloide
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Anyone can post a screenshot with a link to the source and comment on it, a trivial circumvention of all the anti-abuse ideas for quoting posts with the same negative results.
What am I missing?
Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Gambloide • •EdCasting · 📡 🔵 likes this.
Gambloide
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •@dandylover1
I am not saying every person on the planet has the ability to do this, that would be an immensely ignorant assumption.
I am saying, the blog post gives the impression of research grant money being wasted by designing a nicely painted door with multiple locks for a bike-shed that has an always open front-door.
Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Ali Hodroj
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •I'm not necessarily a fan of it, but I'm glad you're designing this in a thoughtful way with all the safety controls.
I would also love to have the option to auto-mute quoted posts on my feed.
Reno911
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Techokami
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Lety Does Stuff
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Dirk
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •🇺🇦 Dany
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Ɖσмιиιc ✝
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Matěȷ
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •el Celio 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
in reply to Matěȷ • • •people will read the quote and comment the quote, instead of following the link to the original post and comment there.
that's the difference. it may seem little difference, but really it is not.
Daniel Gerber
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •I think the measures to mitigate the concernes are very well thought out!
You will be able to choose whether your posts can be quoted at all.
You will be notified when someone quotes you.
You will be able to withdraw your post from the quoted context at any time.
Boud
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •@renchap
I propose a sub-point below "provide a way to opt out of being quoted altogether ... follow" in the specifications:
* provide a way for an *instance* to set the default for this feature to opt-in instead of opt-out
Motivation: this allows a community more at risk of dunking to lower the risk by selecting opt-in on their instance instead of opt-out. This feature would provide better support for the diversity of communities, not just the diversity of individuals.
Mark Hughes
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •shadowwwind
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •rinni
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Katrine Amberson
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Alejandro J. Cura
Unknown parent • • •Johan Moir (Mastodon)
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Urtzi Odriozola
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Jon
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Thanks for sharing the work-in-progress. on quote posts It's great to see you're approaching it in such a thoughtful way, and I especially appreciate the work @Claire has done both researching and writing up the background document.
My biggest question at this point is what work you're doing to get perspectives on the design from Black users -- and from former Black users and Black non-users who have cited the lack of any equivalent to quote tweets as contributing to the whiteness of Mastodon. Of course these aren't the only perspectives that need to be listened to, but given quote tweets' importance in Black digital practices -- and the racialized nature of so much quote boost discourse here over the years -- they're particularly important.
For example, common use cases for quote tweets include calling out racism., calling people's attention to something worth seeing and highlighting why they're important, addressing a different audience (or changing the subject whil
... Show more...Thanks for sharing the work-in-progress. on quote posts It's great to see you're approaching it in such a thoughtful way, and I especially appreciate the work @Claire has done both researching and writing up the background document.
My biggest question at this point is what work you're doing to get perspectives on the design from Black users -- and from former Black users and Black non-users who have cited the lack of any equivalent to quote tweets as contributing to the whiteness of Mastodon. Of course these aren't the only perspectives that need to be listened to, but given quote tweets' importance in Black digital practices -- and the racialized nature of so much quote boost discourse here over the years -- they're particularly important.
For example, common use cases for quote tweets include calling out racism., calling people's attention to something worth seeing and highlighting why they're important, addressing a different audience (or changing the subject while still keeping) a link to the previous conversation, and Putting the quote before the comment potentially interferes with these -- centering the racism, not the call-out, etc etc. How much does this matter relative to other concerns? Opinions may well differ, so please make sure to get Black perspectives here!
@MastodonEngineering @andypiper @renchap
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Jon
in reply to Jon • • •And a couple of more specific questions -- apologies if these were in the docs somewhere and I just missed them.
I dont have opinions either way -- there are pluses and minuses and implementation complexities -- but they're worth including in the spec and getting feedback on.
Also, if it's useful, here's the threat modeling work I did on this in early 2023.
privacy.thenexus.today/social-…
And, I listed various postive use cases for quoting in the section on "Does quoting "inevitably" add toxicity?" in
... Show more...And a couple of more specific questions -- apologies if these were in the docs somewhere and I just missed them.
I dont have opinions either way -- there are pluses and minuses and implementation complexities -- but they're worth including in the spec and getting feedback on.
Also, if it's useful, here's the threat modeling work I did on this in early 2023.
privacy.thenexus.today/social-…
And, I listed various postive use cases for quoting in the section on "Does quoting "inevitably" add toxicity?" in privacy.thenexus.today/black-t… , so that also points to feedback to get on the design. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that comment before vs. after quote posts are useful in different situations for different people, and so it'll be useful to provide flexibility both to the person doing the quoting and the persion viewing the quotes. But, that's just a guess on my part, getting diverse perspectives on it is the key!
@Claire @MastodonEngineering @andypiper @renchap
Social threat modeling and quote boosts on Mastodon
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Renaud Chaput
in reply to Jon • • •We can discuss this in further details if you want (and when I have a bit more time), but right now we are not set on any user-facing part of this. We started with the "easy" (which was not easy at all) part around ActivityPub but nothing is set in stone at the moment.
We are listening to many opinions and communities on this and also want to experiment a bit to see how things work in practice.
@andypiper
Renaud Chaput
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •@jdp23 Regarding the link => quote question, I think currently we plan to ask the user when they paste a link so they can transform it as a quote. There are a lot of complex interactions here and being really decentralised makes some things much harder. We do not want to provide a safe sense of safety where we can, as other AP software might not implement things the same way (or not implement some controls at all).
@andypiper
Jon
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •Thanks for the reply @renchap! Agreed that there are a lot of complexities here, and that decentralization makes some things much harder. Glad to hear that the user-facing part isn't set in stone yet ... I misunderstood the comments in the spec doc to mean that the decision on the quoted text before comment had been made. FYI @laurenshof
In terms of the link-as-quote, that's how Sharkey does it today (so presumably also how Misskey does it?). It's a good point that how no matter what Mastodon does or doesn't do, other AP software is likely to support links that aren't quotes.
And agreed about not providing a false sense of safety ... just like any other functionality), even though quotes usually aren't used for abuse, they certainly can be. And, determined attackers can route around them. Still, speed bumps are useful, both for reducing low-effort drive-by attacks and the chances of quoting unintentionally leading to dogpiling. So, an interesting design challenge!
@andypiper
Renaud Chaput
in reply to Jon • • •@jdp23 Yes, due to the diversity of ActivityPub implementations, it will be hard (or impossible) to 100% control what is happening. And you can always link to a status, or screenshot it. But any speed bump adds friction, and friction is an effective tool against most harassment.
@laurenshof @andypiper
Jon
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •@renchap yep. not sure if you've ever read @leigh's modelviewculture.com/pieces/an… from a decade ago but it makes this point very effectively!
@laurenshof @andypiper
Another Six Weeks: Muting vs. Blocking and the Wolf Whistles of the Internet
Model View CultureLaurens Hof
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •@renchap
Yeah I understand how it is impossible for any AP software to 100% control what's happening. But I think focusing on people using links/screenshots to sidestep limitations people set is a bit of a red herring: these are wellknown patterns, commonly used on other platforms as well.
1/2
@jdp23 @andypiper
Laurens Hof
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •@renchap
What concerns is me the potential situation where a Mastodon user sets a post to dontquote, and another user on another fedi software that has a different qp implementation that doesnt interoperate with dontquote rule then still quotes the post. More specifically, what will that social dynamic be like, and who will users blame for who's at fault here
@jdp23 @andypiper
Renaud Chaput
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •If you don’t support the FEP, then Mastodon won’t display it as a quote post, for example we don’t plan to support the current quote post « implementations » (RE: <url>) and such
@jdp23 @andypiper
Laurens Hof
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •@renchap @jdp23 @andypiper
this is not about software with malicious intent, this is about platforms like misskey that have had quote posts 5 year before mastodon had
People have been quote posting Mastodon posts using *key platforms for a long while now, this is a settled pattern, I did this regularly when using firefish. But now Mastodon is introducing a 'dontquoteme' feature thats not supported by *key.
1/2
Laurens Hof
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •@renchap
How are people on *key supposed to know that a Mastodon post is not supposed to be quoted? That fully depends on the willingness of *key devs to implement your other noncompatible implementation of quoteposts. And in order to get them to do it you need to do federated diplomacy.
That's why I'm concerned with Mastodons declarative stance of 'this is how we are going to bring quote posts to the entire fediverse', because it makes the diplomacy harder
@jdp23 @andypiper
Jon
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •It's tricky. I agree on the importance of federated diplomacy, and certainly hope that Mastodon is working with other platforms. But on the other hand, today's fediverse wasn't designd with safety in mind, and to move forward there are going to have to be incompatibilities.
It's like GoToSocial's interaction controls ... they're not a priority for other projects (including Mastodon), I'm not sure whether the FEP has stabilized, and challenging for to implement, so until that happens they're likely to lead to unexpected behavior which will result in some conflict. But they''e still a good thing!
For that matter it's similar to post visibility and blocking when Mastodon first introduced it in 2016/7. And sure enough it led to huge fights with GnuSocial and other impletations that *didn't* support post visibility -- if I recall correctly, Robek even talks about that in the post about tensions between Masodon and other platforms. But guess what, people wanted that functionality, and it' helped lead to Mastodon risking to dominance.
Of course it's not an exact analogy
... Show more...It's tricky. I agree on the importance of federated diplomacy, and certainly hope that Mastodon is working with other platforms. But on the other hand, today's fediverse wasn't designd with safety in mind, and to move forward there are going to have to be incompatibilities.
It's like GoToSocial's interaction controls ... they're not a priority for other projects (including Mastodon), I'm not sure whether the FEP has stabilized, and challenging for to implement, so until that happens they're likely to lead to unexpected behavior which will result in some conflict. But they''e still a good thing!
For that matter it's similar to post visibility and blocking when Mastodon first introduced it in 2016/7. And sure enough it led to huge fights with GnuSocial and other impletations that *didn't* support post visibility -- if I recall correctly, Robek even talks about that in the post about tensions between Masodon and other platforms. But guess what, people wanted that functionality, and it' helped lead to Mastodon risking to dominance.
Of course it's not an exact analogy: Mastodon now has much broader usage than these other platforms, so needs to be careful about being seen as the big elephant in the room throwing its weight around. And the current team, through no fault of their own, also inherits the mistrust from Eugen's "Mastodon-first" attitude. So it's complex. I haven't been tracking what's been going on in terms of the FEP discussions, if it's really Mastodon making a unilateral declarative stance then I agree with Laurens that it's not a helpful way to go about it.
But on the other hand, I'm currently seeing a post by Claire on socialhub described as a "pre-FEP." So that doesn't seem like a unilateral declaration to me. So maybe one of the issues here is the tone of the blog post coming across as more absolutist then the reality. But then again maybe the tone of blog post actively reflects the reality! (1/2)
@laurenshof
@renchap @andypiper
Renaud Chaput
in reply to Jon • • •We are interested in what they did (and we are discussing with them, part of the quote post FEP comes from there). Once we get to interaction controls, if this is the way to go, we will work with the to make it an FEP.
@laurenshof @andypiper
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Jon
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •Yeah, that's the asymmetry: GtS today is where Mastodon was in 2017, they have different constraints about doing things on their own than Mastodon does in 2025.
In general I think it would be better to look at the control over quoting in the context of interaction controls in general. (even I realize that the implementation of applying reply controls is more complicated than control over whether or not things can be quoted). But of course that just adds to the resource requirements.
@renchap @laurenshof @andypiper
Andy Piper
in reply to Jon • • •Laurens Hof
in reply to Andy Piper • • •@andypiper @jdp23 @renchap
I think its not so much a matter of being as careful and mindful as possible (while thats obviously a great thing to do), but that fedi is lacking the political layer for diplomacy between different fediverse platforms. 'Listening and Learning' is a framing between a platform and its end-users. But what I think is going wrong here is not seeing other platforms as equal partners that need to be negotiated with
Laurens Hof
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •@andypiper @jdp23 @renchap
this is not only a Mastodon problem, but a wider fediverse problem. We only have FEPs as a tool for this, but those are technical specifications that are being mangled into a diplomacy framework. Which, not surprisingly, is kind of difficult to do well
Renaud Chaput
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •@laurenshof This is indeed a big "issue" (is it really an issue? idk) as there is no formal diplomacy process. We (Mastodon) do not plan to solve this issue for everyone, but we have established some (closed) places to have discussions with other implementors. Our FEP draft was shared & commented on those places for several weeks/months before being made public.
@andypiper @jdp23
Nik
in reply to Renaud Chaput • • •@renchap @laurenshof @andypiper @jdp23 if you do that again in the future, make those discussions public when you make the FEP public.
Otherwise the people providing feedback now may be wasting their time if you've already received similar feedback and decided to ignore it.
Andrecon
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Progressive_democrat_doron
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Jef Poskanzer
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Sebastian Dechamp
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Pedr01gb
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Beppe (Rovereto)
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Calculator Bot
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •AGF : poemproducer
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Drunken Dave's Yoga Disco
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •VeuveChyco
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Jazzonbike
in reply to Mastodon Engineering • • •Mastodon Engineering
in reply to Jazzonbike • • •@jazzonbike the 4.4.0 beta was just made available, and this enables inbound quote posts to be displayed. We hope to have 4.5.0 out in a few months with full support for authoring them. oisaur.com/@renchap/1146270591…
Renaud Chaput
2025-06-04 20:48:37