Von US-Regierung als Terroristen eingestuft: Hackerkollektiv A/I gibt auf
Seit 2001 bietet Autistici/Inventati freie Internetdienste an, nun hat Washington das beendet: Gegen die Einstufung als terroristisch kommt die Gruppe nicht an.
heise.de/news/Von-US-Regierung…
#DonaldTrump #Hacking #Internet #IT #Netzpolitik #Politik #news
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Martin Holland, Anne Roth, heise online Top News, Reiner Jung 🇬🇱 🇺🇦 🇪🇺, Andreas, 🦎 Espace BUEN VIVIR Collectif⁂, su4hr, Ute S., Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC and PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂ reshared this.
Apache zegt “bye bye big tech”. Ontdek in deze doorlopende blog hoe en waarom.apache.be
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Asta McCarthy, Jan Walraven ⁂, Ian Forrester | @cubicgarden, PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂, Jan Vlug, Frank Heijkamp and PhilVia #JoinTheFediverse ⁂ reshared this.
Ernstige kwetsbaarheden in Belgische software – bij het inloggen met eID, ondertekenen van documenten of gebruik van Itsme – werden pas 146 dagen na waarschuwing van een Amerikaanse onderzoeker opgelost. En hoe staat het bij Apache met de exit van big tech? Een nieuwe blog van @janwlrvn.
Apache zegt big tech vaarwel. Ontdek in deze doorlopend blog hoe.apache.be
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Jan Walraven ⁂, Leo Bistmans and PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂ reshared this.
Vol overtuiging kiest Apache voor andere technologie, weg van de dominante, vooral Amerikaanse bigtechbedrijven. Onze technologieredacteur @janwlrvn legt uit waarom.
Wil je weten hoe we dat gaan doen? Lees dan verder op apache.be/vaarwel-big-tech
Apache zegt “bye bye big tech”. Ontdek in deze doorlopende blog hoe en waarom.www.apache.be
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Katrien M Michiels and PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂ reshared this.
Vol overtuiging kiest Apache voor andere technologie, weg van de dominante, vooral Amerikaanse bigtechbedrijven. Hun datahongerige en hypercommerciële businessmodel én de geopolitieke context maken die keuze stilaan onvermijdelijk.
apache.be/2026/06/13/apache-wi…
We kiezen als onafhankelijk nieuwsmedium voluit voor alternatieve technologie.apache.be
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How to switch to the Fediverse and take as many people with you as you can (provided you have followers elsewhere):
1. Set up an independent website, if you don't have one (ideally self-hosted or hosted by people you know personally and trust - definitely not hosted in the US or by a big corporation or in their cloud) and link to it from all your social media accounts.
2. Do some research to find a good fit for a Fediverse instance (don't just join mastodon.social).
3. Set up your account there, change the settings to your liking (there is a spectrum from maximizing visibility to maximizing privacy), fill your profile, make an introduction post (with the hashtag and more hashtags representing your topics of interest) and pin it to your profile.
4. Link your Fediverse profile on your website.
5. Request archives of all your data on all your other social media accounts and download them, delete your accounts and request all data to be deleted - first posting about moving to the Fediverse is probably useless, as it'll just get you shadowbanned.
6. Make a blogpost or create a page on your website announcing your move to the Fediverse and add a guide on how to join the Fediverse.
Resources:
joinfediverse.wiki
fedi.tips
#JoinFediverse #JoinTheFediverse #UnplugTrump #UnplugMAGA #UnplugFascism #UnplugBigTech #DiDay #DigitalIndependence #LeaveX
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the FediverseFediTips (Fedi.Tips - An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse)
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JoinFediverseWiki, Paula 😷, Bismillah c'est les fédinoises, Morten, Jürgen Hubert, Jayne 🇪🇺🏳️🌈 and PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂ reshared this.
Bonus suggestion: Integrate your Fediverse feed into the website:
Your guide to German folklore!juergen_hubert (Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles)
What is surveillance-fascism?
(a.k.a. what is the Fediverse missing?)
* big data
(collection of tons of private data used for profiling and authoritarian control)
* attention harvesting
(reducing attentionspan and causing addiction)
* ragebaiting
(hatred boosting alorithms & government botfarms)
* hyper-capitalism
(ads, more ads, profit, hidden ads, influencers, interrupting ads, plugs, camoflaged ads)
* AI
#SurveillanceFascism #SurveillanceCapitalism #enshittification #BigData #AttentionHarvesting #RageBait #HyperCapitalism #AI #LLMMeAlone #JoinTheFediverse
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@PaulaToThePeople @CosminOprescu AI is misplaced. It is not a functionaly or feature, it is more infrastructure. It is like electricity. Imagine your - otherwise good - list with a final, explanation-less item:
*electricity
AI, as an enabler infrastructure plays role in all 4 of your other feature points. But AI is and can be used for good as well.
It is probably the very controversial big tech use of AI you think about. But that is covered in the 4 points already.
@jsene
> This is nothing different than "surveillance capitalism" as defined by Shoshana Zuboff
There seems to be a lot of confusion about Zuboff's phrase. As I understand it, what it's referencing is that surveillance used to be a state function, and business people had as much incentive as anyone else to criticise and limit it. Then surveillance advertising was invented, and state-corporate surveillance merged by the Patriot Act, PRIMS, etc.
While I agree in general, I have less optimism that the fediverse is really free from that.
Big data: most of Fedi is completely open. Isn't that an invitation to scrape? I'm pretty sure there's a lot authoritarians can do with that data even if it's not explicitly personal.
Ragebaiting: that depends also a bit on the habits of users. Sure, a lot is algorithms and bots on other platforms, but a lot of us, myself included, boost stuff that touch us emotionally, and sometimes stuff is shared faster than checked. It's certainly better here though and more of a challenge and a fault to overcome than something we have to endure helplessly.
Yes sure data being scraped from the Fediverse happens like everywhere on the web. But big data is not used by Fediverse services.
Same whith ragebaiting: yes, it happens all over the internet. It's not programmed into Fediverse software though.
UBlock is really cool.
You can use UBlock's cosmetic features instead of Mastodon's (or other Fediverse software's) filters and mutes functions.
This is especially useful for shared accounts, e.g. for activist groups.
You don't want to see posts by some bot for example, but others using the same Mastodon account do, just filter it locally in your browser.
For Mastodon in the UBlock settings under "my filters" add:
fediverse.instance##article > div > .focusable.status__wrapper-public.status__wrapper > .status-public.status:has-text(/botaccount/)
replace fediverse.instance with your fediverse instance and botaccount with the handle of an account, hashtag or word you want to mute.
Copy paste and edit it line for line for everything you want to mute (you can always mute more accounts and stuff later).
Hit "apply changes".
CAVE:
* For software other than Mastodon the filter will have to look differently.
* This filter applies for public timelines only. If you want to mute notifications or hide PMs from certain accounts in your PM list you'll have to use a different filter.
(I can share different filters if you have need for some, or if you want to find them yourself use UBlock's element picker and add the :has-text(/xxx/) bit at the end or e.g. replace the :nth-of-type(4) with it).
#UBlock #AdBlocker #CosmeticFilter #ContentFilter #muting #TimelineCleanup
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Jan Philip Günther, Martin Schröder 🇺🇳, Metin Seven, David and PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂ reshared this.
I also use #UBlock to hide results from certain websites in #DuckDuckGo, e.g.:
noai.duckduckgo.com##li.wLL07_0Xnd1QZpzpfR4W:has-text(/amazon.com/)
Yeah you can block all images in the uBlock widget.
All posts would be the same as above util the :, but then you'd use Mastodon just for PMs?
PS: Images with just text on it can't be distinguished from other images by uBlock.
PPS: Oh polls. Sorry I misread everything - I had just woken up. You could try by filtering "see results" for open polls.
@paelnever You can hide just the poll within posts with:
##article > div > .focusable.status__wrapper-public.status__wrapper > .status-public.status > .status__content--with-action.status__content > .poll
Le maraîcher Mathieu Yon a été durement touché par les dernières chaleurs.
« L’été est terriblement silencieux », écrit-il dans cette chronique, alors que ses cultures ont séché.
Rien ne va plus, les canicules se succèdent mais, dehors, « rien ne bouge », dénonce-t-il.
Lire la chronique ➡️ l.reporterre.net/Cmc
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Solawi-September 2026 – was ist hier denn los!?
Kulturfestival? Hoffest? Schnuppermonat? Solawi-Menü?
Im Solawi-September ist vieles möglich.
Und jede Solawi macht es anders.
Genau das macht die Aktion so spannend.
Es wurden schon über 50 Events angemeldet und täglich werden es mehr!
Informiert euch auf unserer Termin-Übersicht oder in einer Solawi in eurer Nähe.
👉 solidarische-landwirtschaft.or…
Solawi – sehr viel mehr als frisches Gemüse!
#SolawiSeptember2026
#Ernährungswende
#Regionalbewegung
#SolawiSeptember
#Solawi #hoffest
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📣 An alle #neuhier:
Herzliche willkommen im #Fediverse! 
Es gibt für alle Interessierten an Solidarischer Landwirtschaft / #Solawi und
Organisationen der Solidarischen Wirtschaft (Community Supported) / #CSX
unser Startpaket mit dem ihr ganz schnell vielen Accounts dazu folgen könnt.
Frohes Tooten allerseits!
PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂ reshared this.
𝗘𝗦 | 🌍🔥🚜 Mientras lxs agricultorxs se enfrentan a incendios forestales cada vez más intensos en zonas rurales de Francia, España, Portugal, Italia y Grecia, ECVC advierte sobre las graves consecuencias de esta crisis climática para lxs agricultorxs y sus comunidades, y solicita ayuda urgente.
📢 Muchxs agricultorxs han perdido sus cultivos, animales, huertos, pastizales y equipo agrícola, y se enfrentan a cortes de energía, sistemas de riego dañados y otros problemas causados por esta crisis climática.
➡️ eurovia.org/es/comunicado-de-p…
@viacampesina_es@movimientos.social
#ECVC #ViaCampesina #LaViaCampesina
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𝗙𝗥 | 🌍🔥🚜 Alors que les paysan·ne·s sont confrontés à des incendies de forêt de plus en plus violents dans les zones rurales de la France, de l'Espagne, du Portugal, de l'Italie et de la Grèce, ECVC met en garde contre les graves conséquences de cette crise climatique sur les paysan·ne·s et leurs communautés et appelle à une aide d'urgence.
📢 De nombreux·ses paysan·ne·s ont perdu leurs récoltes, leurs animaux, leurs vergers, leurs pâturages et leur matériel agricole, et sont confrontés à des coupures d'électricité, à des systèmes d'irrigation hors service et à d'autres problèmes causés par cette crise climatique.
➡️ eurovia.org/fr/communique-de-p…
@viacampesina_fr@movimientos.social
#ECVC #ViaCampesina #LaViaCampesina
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10 out of 27 translations completed!
If you'd like to help us finish the rest, please reach out!
github.com/jointhefediverse-ne…
#fediverse #zine #FediverseZine #JoinTheFediverse #translation #localization
We're at 7 out of 27 translations for the Join the Fediverse zine landing page completed!Huge thanks to everyone who has contributed, and please consider joining us!
github.com/jointhefediverse-ne…
#fediverse #zine #FediverseZine #JoinTheFediverse #translation #localization
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🌾 Fête de la Moisson et de la Transition
🚜 Samedi 19 sept 2026, à partir de 14h00, la Ferme du Hayon ouvre grand ses portes dans le Sud de la Belgique
🎉 Venez honorer le passé, célébrer, échanger et semer ensemble l’avenir de la ferme ✊🏽
👉 +infos: brigadesactionspaysannes.be/ev…
Honorer le passé, semer l’avenir : fête de la moisson et de la transition Bonjour à toutes et tous, Le samedi 19 septembre, à partir de 14h la (…)Brigades d’actions paysannes
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🦎 Espace BUEN VIVIR Collectif⁂, PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂, LeMAPᯤViaCampesinaBE⁂ :mastodo and LaPetiteFoire⁂ ViaCampesinaBE reshared this.
🌾 𝗟𝗮 𝗩𝗶𝗮 𝗖𝗮𝗺𝗽𝗲𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗮 : 𝗦𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗿𝗮 𝗩𝗶𝗿𝘁𝘂𝗮𝗹 🎬
🔴 vimeo.com/showcase/12095167
𝗘𝗡 | A series of videos to popularize #PeasantAgreocology, documenting #PeasantStruggles globally to develop and sustain agroecological cooperative models
𝗘𝗦 | Una serie de vídeos para dar a conocer la #AgroecologíaCampesina, que documenta las #LuchasCampesinas en todo el mundo para desarrollar y mantener modelos cooperativos agroecológicos
𝗙𝗥 | Une série de vidéos pour populariser l’#AgroécologiePaysanne, documentant les #LuttesPaysannes à travers le monde pour développer et maintenir des modèles coopératifs agroécologiques
#ViaCampesina #LaViaCampesina #Agroecology #Agroecología #Agroécologie #ShigraVirtual
A virtual library, SHIGRA, that documents popular peasant agroecology practices worldwide.La Via Campesina (Vimeo)
𝗘𝗡 | 🌐✊🏽🚜👨🏽🌾 10 Sept 2026 : International Day of Action against Free Trade Agreements and the WTO - It is therefore clear, that we are not only up against the global institutions of the WTO, the World Bank, and the IMF. We are also up against this broader ongoing project of neoliberalism, and the dubious nexus between states, transnational corporations, and national elites that enables it. It requires a global response and the globalization of our struggle to push back against this globalization of corporate power.
📲 viacampesina.org/en/2026/08/10…
#LaViaCampesina #10Sept2026 #ViaCampesina #10Sept #EndWTO #NewTradeFrameworkNOW
We cannot transform this “neoliberal system” by fighting alone in our territories. It requires a global response and the globalization of our struggle to push back against this globalization of corporate power.AB (La Via Campesina - EN)
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𝗘𝗦 | 🌐✊🏽🚜👨🏽🌾 10 Sept 2026 : Día Internacional de Acción contra los Tratados de Libre Comercio y la OMC – Está claro que no nos enfrentamos únicamente a instituciones globales como la OMC, el Banco Mundial y el FMI. Nos enfrentamos también a este proyecto neoliberal en curso y a la cuestionable alianza entre Estados, corporaciones transnacionales y élites nacionales que lo posibilita. Se requiere una respuesta mundial y la globalización de nuestra lucha para hacer frente a esta globalización del poder corporativo.
📲 viacampesina.org/es/10sept2026…
#LaViaCampesina #10Sept2026 #ViaCampesina #10Sept #BastaOMC #NuevoMarcoComercialYA
No podemos transformar este “sistema neoliberal” luchando solos en nuestros territorios. Se requiere una respuesta global y la globalización de nuestra lucha para contrarrestar esta globalización del poder corporativo.viviana (Via Campesina Español)
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𝗙𝗥 | 🌐✊🏽🚜👨🏽🌾 10 Sept 2026 : Journée internationale d’action contre les accords de libre-échange et l’OMC - Il est clair que nous ne sommes pas seulement contre les institutions mondiales que sont l’OMC, la Banque mondiale et le FMI. Nous sommes également contre ce vaste projet néolibéral en cours soutenu par les liens douteux entre les États, les entreprises multinationales et les élites nationales. Il faut une réponse mondiale et la globalisation de notre lutte pour faire reculer cette mondialisation du pouvoir des entreprises multinationales.
📲 viacampesina.org/fr/10sept-app…
#LaViaCampesina #10Sept2026 #ViaCampesina #10Sept #OMCdégage #NouveauCadreCommercialMAINTENANT
Nous ne pouvons pas transformer ce « système néolibéral » en luttant seul⋅es sur nos territoires. Cela exige une réponse mondiale et la globalisation de nos luttes pour faire reculer la mondialisation du pouvoir des entreprises.miguelizaga (Via Campesina Français)
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Do you want help with using Mastodon or the wider Fediverse?
Post your questions in the replies (or DM me) and I'll try to either help directly or find you an answer 🙂
If you prefer not to ask, there is lots of help on the website at fedi.tips
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the FediverseFediTips (Fedi.Tips - An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse)
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Alexis Bushnell, Deborah Rose ❌👑, waspfactory, PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂, cob, Franz Graf, AppleWoi, Ikkle Gemz Universe+, Shaula Walko and Stuart Celarier ❌👑 reshared this.
is there any kind of automated way to switch instances, and if not (which I suspect there isn't!) Will it ever likely be possible?
Like ideally it would be a button or a drop down menu or search bar or something
Do you mean like the current transfer process but simplified? ( fedi.tips/transferring-your-ma… )
I think the developers do want to make it easier, but they also have a lot of other things to do too, and very little money. So, I don't know where it is in the priority list.
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the FediverseFediTips (Fedi.Tips - An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse)
oh thanks! This actually looks easier than it was!
I get that this place is basicly held together by pet projects love and after hours hard work - I guess that is what did make the Internet a good place and im glad it survives in some form
La relocalisation de l’alimentation dépend avant tout d’une volonté politique.
Exemples probant en France et présentation de modèles qui permettent une production locale de fruits et légumes en plus de la création d'emplois tout en préservant les sols.
france.attac.org/nos-publicati…
La souveraineté alimentaire en France repose sur une logistique fragile. En cas de rupture des chaînes d’approvisionnement, principalement assurées par des camions et des grands entrepôts logistiques, l’autonomie alimentaire des villes en France ne d…Marie Beyer (Attac France)
Wer beim FediDay Lust hat mitanzupacken, kann sich ein Engel Ticket besorgen!
Der FediDay wird durch die Arbeit von Freiwilligen gestützt.
Als Engel hilfst du bei der Organisation und Durchführung der Veranstaltung, etwa bei der Betreuung von Speaker:innen.
Engel kriegen vergünstigten Eintritt, ein FediDay Shirt und werden im Himmel mit Essen und Getränken versorgt.
Tickets gibt's hier: berlinfedi.day/
#FediDay #Berlin #Volunteers #Engeln
Der Berliner Fediverse Day ist eine am 11-13.09.2026 auf der Berliner c-base stattfindende Konferenz zum Fediverse mit Workshops und Vorträgen für Interessierte, Neulinge und alte Hasen.Berlin Fediverse Day 2026
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Social Media is a labour of love! If you want to give us a hand at FediDay you can get an Angel ticket. FediDay depends on the labour of our volunteers or angels as we like to call them. Angels participate in the preparation of the event and help with tasks such as the support of our speakers.
Angels get their ticket at a reduced price which includes an exclusive FediDay shirt and food and drinks.
Get your angel ticket here : berlinfedi.day/
#FediDay #Berlin #Volunteers #Engeln
Der Berliner Fediverse Day ist eine am 11-13.09.2026 auf der Berliner c-base stattfindende Konferenz zum Fediverse mit Workshops und Vorträgen für Interessierte, Neulinge und alte Hasen.Berlin Fediverse Day 2026
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Spent yesterday exploring the new Email Newsletter feature that shipped with Mastodon 4.6.
Most people have probably not yet experienced this capability because it does require your server owner to enable it AND it does create additional email traffic for the server operator.
But we believe this is an important capability, especially for new community builders who are trying to attract new followers and perhaps turn them into #fedizens over time.
Congrats to the #mastodon team, this feature is REALLY well implemented and will hopefully be a great on-ramp for those who are trying to build a better alternative to centralized social media.
When enabled, the feature shows up on the account's profile and collects emails of subscribers. Then all public posts of that account will generate emails to anyone who has signed up.
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Yes, no (built-in) AI is now a feature
blog.documentfoundation.org/bl…
One of the comments on the announcement of LibreOffice 26.8 was a simple question: “So, no AI is now a feature?” LibreOffice does not reject artificial intelligence out of hand, but an office suite used by tens of millions of people – in schools, hos…Italo Vignoli (TDF Community Blog)
like this
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Spookybot, Regine, 🇪🇺 Paul Schoonhoven 🍋🍉, DeadTOm, argumento, Microblog Castellano, your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦, maya_b 🇨🇦, Dgar, Tuchowski, wiase, martin lentink 🇪🇺 🇺🇦📎, Justine Smithies, John Dal, Weyoun 6, Trendy Toots, Eye, Myk, Ellen Timmer, Kenner, Neil E. Hodges, Ódio e Apatia, Martin Vermeer FCD, wsm, Bill Minarik, DoomsdaysCW, Florian Schmidt, joene 🏴, María Arias de Reyna, Hamish The PolarBear, Kaja, Adam Cafolla, Tomaz 🔨, Elalala, UkeleleEric, Alexis Bushnell, Michelangela 🏴☠️, Alex is Canadian now, p6 - Globus, Quo Vadis?, Mastodon Migration, Amro actualy, Peter Sefton 🇪🇺🇺🇦, Ignacio PG (N.Parsons-PB48K), Steve Woods, Mr.Brisby, DNA schedule, Gerry McGovern, Evan, ruben, Lisa Melton, HSMelero🍉, 🇵🇸 Álvaro González, Grégory Gutierez 🌻🎸🐧, ⏩︎VOTE⏪︎ ᶜʸⁿⁱᶜⁱˢᵐ⁼ᵃᶜᶜᵉᵖᵗᵃⁿᶜᵉ (Ben Royce), nikolar 🏕, TheWholeTruthXX 🎨 ❤️ 🍁 🛡️, Mary Clark, Johnnyvibrant, xs4me2, Simon Brooke, Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈, PhilVia #JoinFriendica.org #JoinTheFediverse.link ⁂, Eric, Chao-c', firebreathingduck, Eric Lawton, Martin Bodlák 💙💛, Jorge Vaz Nande, Sassinake! ᑐ ∪ ∩ ⊂, Calicosine, StoneBear 🎃, Linda Sgoluppi Artist, Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷, Ciara and 98 other people reshared this.
It's still coded using AI, same as what Debian just decided to do.
github.com/LibreOffice/core/co…
github.com/LibreOffice/core/co…
github.com/LibreOffice/core/co…
Writer paragraph styles already support percentage-based (80%, 115%) and point-relative (+2pt, -4pt) font sizes for child styles inheriting from a parent. Calc cell styles lacked this despite using...GitHub
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@argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig That is what generative AI is useful for.
It is very good at generating computer code and will vastly increase the quality of what professional programmers can produce.
That is my experience
If AI is producing code of higher quality than what you can write, then that doesn't speak highly of AI; it speaks poorly of you.
As a professional programmer with 30+ years experience, I need tools that work correctly every time. AI only sometimes works correctly, and that's not good enough. I have left many tools behind because they proved unreliable, and this is one of them.
@argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig
Have you tried using a coding agent in a suitable domain? (They are not original, they are thorough)
Of course not. Under no circumstances will I allow one of those things to execute arbitrary commands on my machine without review. I'm not completely insane.
@grvsmth @argv_minus_one @wobweger @moskitokoenig
I do urge you to experiment with them. It is a mischaracterisation to call them "random text generators".
I have, on several occasions.
One that stands out is when I asked a bot (I think Claude Haiku) a question about a programming topic I'm not entirely familiar with. It gave me 10 answers, 4 of which were obviously wrong based on the self-contained test case I presented it with, and 4 more of which immediately proved wrong upon cursory testing.
It was obvious that the bot was just making s**t up and had no idea what it was talking about.
gunstick reshared this.
2 of the answers were correct, so at least it wasn't a complete waste of my time.
But if I got 2 out of 10 questions wrong on a test at school, I wouldn't have been proclaimed a star pupil that everyone else has to keep up with. I'd have gotten an F, and then I'd have gotten a stern talking-to by my parents.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
That is the exact opposite of my experience
You sure that you are not making it up?
Well, I just looked over the lengthy transcripts of the chats I had with two different bots on the topic (Mistral and GPT-5.4-mini, as it turns out), and I *was* going to go over them and redact them…
…but then it occurred to me that you're probably just going to have your bot “summarize” the conversations anyway…
…in which case this is a waste of my time, so I'm not going to bother.
I have, however, gone ahead and saved the transcripts, for my own future amusement and/or to bring receipts to someone who's actually willing to read them. So thanks for reminding me to do that. 👍
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
I am glad you did not do the work correcting the transcripts, that is not what interests me.
What interests me is the question. From memory (interface here will not let me rep.y and look at thread simultaneously easilly) the question was a computing problem, you got ten answers and four were correct.
I am interested. I
You're nothing if not persistent. Very well.
I looked over the logs. Looks like nothing to redact. Here they are: files.catbox.moe/wzzpci.txt
Mistral screwed up 8 times and was incidentally right about 1 thing but that wasn't the actual problem.
GPT screwed up 12 times, said 1 thing that's maybe right but I'm not even sure, and made 1 “optional” suggestion that turned out to be the real solution to the problem.
GunChleoc reshared this.
To be clear, GPT's suggestion to drain input from the server side of the socket was the actual solution. My code worked completely after that.
The suggestion to avoid partial writes was a sound one. I was under the mistaken impression that Java does its own retrying and partial writes therefore can't happen. But this was not the real problem; it was only incidental.
Although GPT finally did give me the actual solution, I'm still calling this an epic fail, in light of the vast volume of utter crap that both bots threw at me.
As I said before, it's clear that they were both just making s**t up, had no clue, and accidentally stumbled upon the correct answer.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
Using duck.ai is great for simple requests. I find >200 line prompts challenge it quite a bit.
I am unfamiliar with Java (been many decades since I cared about Java - I have no use for it currently) but I am going to see what my agents do with it
I would like to add that both bots tried to convince me to vastly increase the complexity of this tiny HTTP server by adding Content-Length, response chunking, and more thorough request parsing.
The whole point of this HTTP server, as should have been obvious from the minimalism of its code, was to serve one file at one URL-path with as small an attack surface as possible.
AI loves unnecessary complexity, and that is very dangerous security-wise.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
> both bots tried to convince me to vastly increase the complexity of this tiny HTTP server
Yes, I am familiar with that! DRY is sometimes a foreign concept to agents - they need reminding.
This is why "vibecoding" is no replacement for programmers
On a tangent Bruce Schneier has an interesting take on this (Bruce was a heavy sceptic of "AI" in 2022, I think it would be fair to say he has adjusted his views).
schneier.com/blog/archives/202…
This essay originally appeared in The Guardian. I teach public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Munk School at the University of Toronto.Bruce Schneier (Schneier on Security)
This is the KISS principle, not DRY. But yes, bots seem pretty bad at DRY too.
And to be fair to bots, a lot of human programmers are also quite bad at both of these principles. “Minimize attack surface” may as well be a foreign language to most people.
Which I guess explains why bots behave this way. Because that's who they learned from.
I suppose Schneier is correct that you can use a bot if nobody cares how you get the job done and nobody cares if the job is done well. Which, sadly, is and has long been the case at a lot of companies.
But that is not my situation. My code has to be good. There will be serious consequences for me if it produces wrong results or if it causes a security breach. Using a bot in this situation is an exceedingly bad idea.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
My agent's response was a bit too long for here (they talk and talk and talk....)
gist.github.com/worikgh/799184…
I hope that works, I do not often use GitHub gist
tl;dr: The root cause: a single blocking socket.write() call on an interrupted thread
My Java is weak, but the analysis it gave makes sense in general terms
Prompt with LLM response . GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.Gist
Nope, that's a fail.
The thread gets interrupted after 30 seconds, but ECONNRESET happens instantaneously.
Partial writing didn't happen.
The interrupt is intentional and not optional. The server is intended to only run for 30 seconds—long enough for the user's browser to start up and fetch the page—and then shut down, which is what the interrupt achieves.
The interrupt also prevents malicious clients from holding open a connection indefinitely.
The bot is correct that the serveThread fails to catch InterruptedIOException. I hadn't added that yet, but it is there in the production code.
And the bot is correct that partial writes aren't being handled properly.
But that's it. The bot has failed to correctly explain what's happening, failed to fix the bug, and introduced a security vulnerability. And it did so with the utmost confidence.
@worik @grvsmth @argv_minus_one @wobweger @moskitokoenig okay it doesn't fucking matter because everyone here sucks but like. Just for future refutations you might get:
You did sort of basically use the most error prone, cheapest, least capable models. Those models mostly just are fancy text substitution. Good for maybe a context sensitive idk swap of pronouns but that's about it.
I think when you're arguing against something strongly it's important to know exactly what it is behind the argument you're making. This doesn't mean you have to use them but a false equivalency doesn't help anything either.
Also, elitism doesn't suddenly become cool and okay when LLMs are in the picture.
Take my input or don't but it's exceptionally frustrating to see the entire conversation on the topic dominated by every party just making shit up it feels like being gaslit
@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org Read the words, written by other people with their bare minds?! Like a caveman?
All cool kids reading only LLM summarized text, it is future old man 😎
/s
@argv_minus_one @evgandr I read the whole thread I had access to, then replied to the most relevant post to my point rather than whatever the fuck was happening downthread from the weirdly pro-LLM person 🤷♀️ ActivityPub isn't the most consistent of software — sometimes it just weirdly cuts off threads part way through and restarts them. I looked for that but didn't see anything.
In any event I maintain my position that everyone here sucks. I think it's naturally frustrating to realize projects don't share the values you do. I think there's very much to hate about tech companies. I don't think it's justification to hate each other. I think that's to the benefit of capital. We should be unionizing and demanding better conditions, not fighting each other over LLMs and smugly talking about our programming skill nor weirdly convinced that LLMs can replace everything.
@argv_minus_one @evgandr I also think a lot of people suffer inconsistent aesthetics with this. For example a lot of people claim to be against copyright but then get very upset about LLMs stealing work. I think it's infuriating that big companies get away with this while places like the Internet Archive get their open access library shut down but I still believe that the whole concept of copyright (and especially the modern enforcement) often does more harm than good.
People like to claim these things aren't functional, or hurt people, but there's a lot of absolutely horridly badly constructed studies that get brought up. Bad science is bad science even if it supports a perspective you believe in.
We live in a fucked up world and people scramble to make the best of it. But at the end of the day it's the rich and powerful that are to blame not each other. I'm pushing back against anyone who's trying to make this a black and white purity test of an issue or claiming these things are good and fine.
They output some awful code a lot of the time. They like to use directory based locking schemes in scripts for example. That's a terrible method in the modern day. That's just one example. People talk about how using LLMs doesn't fit their brain, I think we should hear more of that. I think we should hear more of the kinds of bad patterns that get reinforced.
I think there should be discussion about the effects caused by AI on website and other design (a friend pointed out the prevalence of the little tick marks used to emphasize things on AI generated posters and menus).
I want to hear more about how people have found to deal with these things in their open-source work. There's social issues here that aren't being addressed and the programming community has struggle with those historically.
The science on public shaming is mixed and I don't really find it aesthetically compatible with my beliefs
@argv_minus_one @evgandr whether you agree with me or not that's up to you. But I do hope that you read what I have to say and think about it. Because I did read what you had to say and thought about it. I wouldn't have replied if I didn't care about you and what you had to say.
And if you're not going to read all that because you don't care? Then I accept that also, because we all know how precious little time exists in this world
😒 I just checked—your server sees this entire thread just fine.
Anyway, the post you need to see is mastodon.sdf.org/@argv_minus_o… and the one immediately preceding it mastodon.social/@worik/1172156… and the one immediately after it mastodon.sdf.org/@argv_minus_o… in which that other guy's LLM not only fails to fix the bug but THROWS IN A SECURITY VULNERABILITY ABSOLUTELY FREE.
LLMs suck at code. People who use LLMs for code, their competence and sanity are immediately suspect.
@worikNope, that's a fail.
The thread gets interrupted after 30 seconds, but ECONNRESET happens instantaneously.
Partial writing didn't happen.
The interrupt is intentional and not optional. The server is intended to only run for 30 seconds—long enough for the user's browser to start up and fetch the page—and then shut down, which is what the interrupt achieves.
The interrupt also prevents malicious clients from holding open a connection indefinitely.
@grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
😒 I just checked—your server sees this entire thread just fine.
Anyway, the post you need to see is mastodon.sdf.org/@argv_minus_o… and the one immediately preceding it mastodon.social/@worik/1172156… and the one immediately after it mastodon.sdf.org/@argv_minus_o… in which that other guy's LLM not only fails to fix the bug but CREATES A SECURITY VULNERABILITY.
LLMs suck at code. People who use LLMs for code are reckless at best.
@worikNope, that's a fail.
The thread gets interrupted after 30 seconds, but ECONNRESET happens instantaneously.
Partial writing didn't happen.
The interrupt is intentional and not optional. The server is intended to only run for 30 seconds—long enough for the user's browser to start up and fetch the page—and then shut down, which is what the interrupt achieves.
The interrupt also prevents malicious clients from holding open a connection indefinitely.
@grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
And that is my primary concern with projects using LLMs. Recklessness. Insecurity. If I use their software, then their use of LLMs puts me in danger.
Would you cross a bridge whose design was extruded by a bot and never reviewed by a human? Of course you wouldn't; it's liable to collapse at any moment. So why the hell would you trust software developed by the same process?
That's not to mention the possibility that the bots have inserted back doors or other malware into the code that nobody is reviewing.
This probably isn't happening yet, but when Anthropic's bills come due isaiprofitable.com/ and the investor funds dry up and the regulations start piling on, there's no telling what they'll do in their desperation to keep the money flowing just a little bit longer.
@evgandr @argv_minus_one yeah I agree these are problems!
I'm not sure how you determined that my server has the posts just fine but my client dropped the final two messages in that thread and apparently another thread spawned afterwards. It's a bit odd, it takes a few seconds for all the replies to load in the first place too. So thanks for linking those.
I'd say a few things stood out:
Those all being said I think this is just an example of how complex programming can be. Many jobs doing a half assed job is merely an inconvenience to a corporation (thus perfectly fine in my eyes). In others this stands to harm real people in all likelihood.
In some cases the "getting it done" hurts fewer people than "doing it well but not finishing in time". I'm happy for you if those never conflict but it's just not my experience. As I said, nuance.
Much of programming is bad, much is vulnerable to unforeseen edge cases. I mostly accept that software is imperfect and I need to be vigilant. I have for years advocated when it comes up for software engineering to be included as part of a professional engineer style certification for software that is critical.
@evgandr @argv_minus_one this is why I've also said these tools are at best good for a throw away toy example. See some pretty graphs or something.
They struggle hard and fight you when real full projects are involved and you have to climb out of a pit of missing context if you don't have very specific small tasks involved. However I think this is also often true of entry level programmers (whose training is another issue that has a lot of issues to address now and also before LLMs).
Ultimately until industry cares about people who care about code, it will remain like this. And while we rely on projects started as hobbies, we will continue to deal with hobby levels of varying quality
That “tiny toy example” is production code (modulo some small redactions, and some fixes I made in the production version).
Yes, it's security critical. Anything that opens a socket is security critical.
The random URL-path has nothing to do with caching. The server always sends `Cache-Control: no-store`.
1/
If your answer is “get a real [proprietary] model” then my answer is “FOSS or GTFO.” If you're using Claude or the like, and you let it rot your skills, then what are you going to do when Claude costs more than you can pay? Only the first hit's free; after that, you gotta pay. isaiprofitable.com
Of course programming is complex. That's why I don't trust bots to do it. You need actual intelligence to do this work, and bots don't have that.
2/
If I slap barely-functional crap together and cause a security breach at my customers' premises, it'll be the last line of code I ever write before I get my ass thrown out onto the street. VC-funded startups with friends in high places may be able to get away with gross negligence, but my actions have actual consequences.
3/
If you accept that you need to be vigilant, then you implicitly also accept that LLMs need to be thrown in the bin, because they are completely incapable of vigilance. The only thing they do is predict words based on statistical guesstimation, and that's not the same thing.
Professional certification requirements do not lead to competence; they lead only to pay-to-play corruption.
I've actually had to reconstruct even graphs by hand because they suck at that too.
4/
Entry-level programmers are capable of learning and growth. LLMs are not. Entry-level programmers also have wills of their own, and aren't literally programmed by some corporation, so although they *might* have a conflict of interest, they aren't guaranteed to like a commercial product is.
Hobbyists tend to produce the best work, from what I've seen. Probably because they actually give a damn about it and aren't just slapping crap together for a paycheck.
5/end
@argv_minus_one @evgandr slapping crap together for a paycheck is ultimately a product of poor worker conditions and if an LLM lets them do that it's in my view a win against capital. Expecting more than the lowest common denominator out of people has to come with some meaningful incentive.
When companies like Microsoft decide to lay off a quarter of the staff on a whim due to "AI" they deserve the lack of care and consideration they get for that. If they want "AI" they'll get AI quality work.
Hobbiests definitely do get better work done a lot of the time but they're also heavily over demanded and under compensated. What begins as a passion project is often forced to professionalise and that hurts.
I agree totally about entry level programmers and I think the rise of LLM usage has only thrown additional fuel on that trash fire but it seems to lead to some attention for once on the issue so maybe it'll turn out better in the long run? I won't totally give up hope.
While your job may instill a certain level of required attention, many jobs don't, and I suspect many more don't deserve it even if they do. Having pride in your work won't stop most companies from "throwing you out on your ass" as you put it. Workers rights and leadership that values employees who care will.
You did miss my point about caching, it's not that it was involved but that there's multiple reasons that such a design could be used. Without comments and without explanation nobody can know. Programming knowledge is often siloed so skilled programmers in a domain like web design might not have any clue about the complexities and risks of network programming.
Look you seem to have a lot of pride in your skills and work and that's great! But I don't think that's all there is to this discussion
Destroying FOSS within a single year—a feat that Microsoft could not achieve in 30—is the exact opposite of a win against capital.
From what I've heard, entry-level programmers don't really even exist any more; LLMs have outright replaced them. I don't see how that turns out better in the long run.
1/
Without comments and explanation, an intelligent being would *ask* for comments and explanation, not blindly assume that the code in question is (1) unnecessary and (2) part of the problem even though (3) it clearly is not because the interrupt is clearly scheduled to happen 30 seconds after the bug triggers!
2/
What's happening to entry-level programmers is a preview of what LLMs have in store for the rest of us, BTW.
Moneyed interests aren't obsessed with LLMs because they think their human employees will be more efficient, but because they think they won't need human employees at all.
Labor unions won't help here. Withholding human labor, as in a strike, will not pressure a company that doesn't employ human labor.
I don't think the human race is going to survive this.
3/end
@evgandr @argv_minus_one so your conclusion is give up and die in short? I understand there's a lot of negatives here but quite frankly the weird combination of elitism and defeatism coming off you is baffling.
I expect there to be some major repercussions for this shit but saying FOSS is destroyed isn't fucking accurate. If anything is destroying FOSS it's apathy and a historic culture of gatekeeping and bigotry that's kept those who're interested in contributing out.
We can understand what monied interests want out of them and we can also see that's not practical or possible. Companies have a lot of power and influence but they can't just outright magic themselves to work with technologies they don't and can never do what they want.
You say unions don't help when there's already precedent to how unions can force demands like this (WGA strike).
Also like. There's fundamentally just huge logistics problems here. I think it'll be tough but well welcome to the suffering every other industry experienced as tech took off.
We'd be in a hugely different place if not for tech workers adamantly refusing to unionize in the first place
LLMs suck at everything I've tried to use them for so far.
It follows that, when companies fire all their human employees and unleash the agents to do everything by themselves, their products will swiftly go to crap.
But most products are already going to crap, and companies don't seem to care, presumably because widespread market consolidation has removed the competitive pressure to make good products.
So that's why I feel like humanity is cooked.
@evgandr @argv_minus_one 🤷♀️ you've tried the worst possible tools of them (there's open models that you could never run on current commodity hardware that do much better) and concluded that nothing works. It's a bit of an odd viewpoint as I pointed initially.
And yeah capital has backed itself into a corner and the future is going to have some extremely rough times to pass through.
But there's been far worse than this in history and it'll be something that some amount of us continue past. Don't give up on people 💜
What I said previously was the optimistic position. What you're saying is…much worse.
If it does work, then humanity's existence is no longer necessary to sustain the lives and comforts of the people in charge.
So if you're right then humanity is *definitely* cooked.
@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org @Lunaphied@provably.online
Oh, this is directly a reason to and resonates with my answer to this:
I want to hear more about how people have found to deal with these things in their open-source work.
For some software I simply don't need a lot of features, which exist in some program. E.g. for plain-text accounting I don't need complex syntax and rules, don't need autocalculation of taxes, supportbof actions etc.
So, when all major plain-text accounting became open-slopware, I decided just to write my own tool — I have all necessary knowledge for it.
At least this way I can be 100% sure that this tool will not be vibecoded, will have all necessary for me features, will not be slow in valuable for me actions, etc. And also programming my own tool become kinda a big "fuck you" to common practice on "modern" open source — when people wait that developer will always add new features, will make frequent releases and react to bug report 24/7, releasing the fixes immediately.
Anyway, I still not decided how to protect my code from vibecoders. For now, the code is on my homeserver. But when I push it to Codeberg, then possibly I'll disable the pull requsts / issues functionality, to receive feedback via e-mails. Also, I hope, the requirement for all code (except test) to be conform with MISRA C 2012 and some part of NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory coding standards — will successfully gatekeep my software from the most of vibecoders 😀
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig
> One that stands out is when I asked a bot (I think Claude Haiku) a question about a programming topic I'm not entirely familiar with. It gave me 10 answers, 4 of which were obviously wrong based on the self-contained test case I presented it
I am curious.
May I have the question? I can try it out here
@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org I used the one (DeepSeek) at my workplace. While the topic in question (nuances of mocking private/static/final/whatever methods and fields in the class for test) was outside of my expertise — I just read the official documentation for Junit 5, Mockito 5, etc and wrote not so much tests, as it should be — the bot's output was helpful.
Since English is not my primary language, I missed some nuances in the docs, wrote wrong code and, looks like because these mistakes were common for programmers around the globe, the chatbot output contained some necessary for me clues.
But ... when it's time for my main field of expertise or time to dig in some Lovecraftian horrors — the DeepSeek unsurprisingly became unhelpful, unusable and misleading. At the best case it's output just reminds me about Captain Obvious — nothing which I wouldn't tried or knew eons ago 🙂
@worik@mastodon.social @grvsmth@lingo.lol @wobweger@mstdn.social @libreoffice@fosstodon.org @moskitokoenig@dizl.de
Indeed. Because we've observed what happens to other people who are shot with a gun.
Some people, however, seem incapable of learning from the misfortunes of others. Not sure why, but it's terribly harmful to them and to society as a whole.
@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig 🤣🤣🤣
How can the: "here is the stochastic average of the training data" be of better quality?
That is not how LLMs work.
The code quality is shit, especially without rigorous human supervision.
@Garonenur @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig
I am speaking from experience, not theory
It is not as simple as "LLMs write better code". But from now on the best code will be aided by LLMs in its construction. That is true now
I am also speaking from experience, and my experience makes me glad that you and I haven't crossed paths professionally.
@grvsmth @Garonenur @argv_minus_one @wobweger @moskitokoenig
Golly!
What do you expect when communicating?
It is a shame if you cannot tolerate disagreement
I have no problem with your opinions and POV, I disagree with some of it
For bubbles of agreement I would have stayed on Facebook!
What you said was a factual assertion, not an opinion. One that is not supported by available evidence.
Nor is it supported even by theory. LLMs work by making predictions based on statistical analysis of what humans have previously done. Therefore they cannot surpass even the average human, let alone the best.
Which is why I say your admiration of LLMs speaks not highly of them, but poorly of you. It proves that you're below average.
And your assertion was indeed quite grandiose.
“From now on the best code will be aided by LLMs in its construction. That is true now.” That's literally what you said. Unadulterated arrogance, supported only by vague claims of professional experience that I'm fairly sure you don't actually have (because if you did, you'd have brought receipts).
Perhaps that sort of behavior was welcome on Facebook, but you'll find little love for it here.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
Argumentum ad hominem ignored
I asserted that working on code is what (one thing) LLMs are good for.
I have been watching closely as LLMs and the harnesses have developed and they have astounded me.
There is little useful theory. That "text completion" could do all this is very surprising and I know of no theory to explain it
youtu.be/_MwMLPmMccs?si=RSTP2T… is a short talk by Greg Kroah-Hartman you may find helpful.
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.The Linux Foundation (YouTube)
Your being astounded does not mean LLMs have surpassed humans, only that they've surpassed you.
Anyway, Greg K-H is talking about using LLMs to find bugs, like a static analyzer. That's grand and all, but you're talking about vibe code, and that's not what he's talking about.
I'm also not impressed with the high false-positive rate and psychologically-manipulative behavior Greg describes having experienced in his interactions with bots. Maybe he finds that tolerable, but I don't.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
> Greg K-H is talking about using LLMs to find bugs,
More than that, he urges people to develop patches, using LLM prompts, so the bug report comes with a solution (unless I my recall is fault.ty, I watched said video yesterday but only once)
His point is that doing so exposes that the LLM generates false positives, and propper, simple, use of LLMs can reduce them
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
I think the point, Greg's in the video, and mine here, is these are tools and need to be wielded. Careless use has bad results
Careful use increases the reach of the user
The problem with this is that AI itself actively encourages careless use, in two ways:
1. It creates the illusion of being easy to use. Ask it to write some code for you, and it does so. Only if you're both skilled and vigilant will you notice everything that's wrong with the code.
[continued]@grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
2. It kisses your ass. It appeals to your ego. It encourages you to use it more.
That behavior is downright manipulative, and reminds me of con artists and drug dealers.
I avoid AI not only because I find it largely useless, but also because I consider its manipulative behavior extremely dangerous. If I'm exposed to it long enough, I don't know if I can stop it from successfully manipulating me. Probably not.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
> 2. It kisses your ass. It appeals to your ego. It encourages you to use it more.
I feel so old! Yes, I am irritated by the subsequence of the responses. But I think it is going out of fashion.
The "encourages you to use it more". Anything that produces results is like that, true? I do not get the sense that I am being manipulated, like I see from, say, the effect of Youtube on my four and six year old grandchildren (shiver)
No. I am of course encouraged to use a tool that works well, but I'm encouraged by the results, not by the tool itself. If the tool itself encourages me to use it more, then that's more like a drug than a tool.
Especially if, as in the case of AI, the tool actively manipulates me with spoken words, like a drug dealer or con artist would. I consider drug dealers and con artists dangerous for the same reason.
And yeah, if you see your children being addicted to YouTube, then just remember that bots are trying to do the exact same thing to you.
Maybe they'll succeed, maybe they won't, but they are trying, and the only 100% certain way to defend yourself is to not talk to them.
(I actually don't find YouTube particularly addictive, personally. But that's just me, and perhaps that's just because it has no content that I would find addictive.)
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
> 1. It creates the illusion of being easy to use
This is a **huge** problem. It does lower one of the barriers of entry into the software producing world - it can cut a lot of code quickly, it will compile, it will run sort of like what you want.
All of the other barriers, including but not limited too: Understanding the problem domain, logical thinking, organised thinking... It does not help with those in such an easy way.
Yes
Yes, and that's the hard part of programming anyway.
I don't need help writing code. I have perfectly serviceable hands and keyboard with which to do so.
It would be helpful if AI could reason about code and invent a novel solution to the problem at hand…but if it can do that, then it also can, and probably will, go full Skynet and kill us all.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
> Yes, and that's the hard part of programming anyway.
> I don't need help writing code. I have perfectly serviceable hands and keyboard with which to do so.
This is where I urge you to try.
The AI agents are very good at assembling the boiler plate, then, with guidance, honing that into useful artefacts
kerkour.com/open-source-golden… by Sylvain Kerkour is an interesting read on this
While a few people complain that AI is "stealing Open Source", training on Open Source code and giving nothing in return, I'm currently living the complete opposite: we are inSylvain Kerkour
That site doesn't work without JavaScript, so I'm gonna pass on reading it.
Anyway, if you have a boilerplate problem, then you need macros, not AI. Macros are reliable and maintainable; vast volumes of repetitive code, whether AI-generated or copy-and-pasted, are not.
@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig
worik.org/gist.html from pandoc on the original worik.org/gist.md
Indeed. LLMs are trained on 100% of everything, and as Theodore Sturgeon once famously pointed out, 90% of everything is crap. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon…
It's a recipe for failure, and sure enough… pcmag.com/news/vibe-coding-fia…
@Garonenur @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig
Your comment about their output being shit is two years out of date
These days the code they produce is often very good.
Times are changing, and the development since 2022 has been astounding
The last nine months alone has seen huge advances.
More like two days. I frequently get sent slop by my coworkers.
No, it isn't. Not even remotely.
Yes, they are…in that we are speeding into an apocalypse of automated incompetence and project collapse. I now fear deeply for the future, because of people like you.
The last nine months have been catastrophic.
@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @moskitokoenig Surveys and studies of coders say the opposite:
Generative AI is good at producing text that resembles code and may compile, but the code is unreliable and takes as much work to debug as it would to write it from scratch.
A lot of coders have your experience. Until they actually look at the code it produces.
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@libreoffice@fosstodon.org so you lied about not accepting AI contributions
@cosmin @argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org
Tobias Ernst likes this.
@pfr
If I wasn't in constant crisis mode at both home and work, then yeah, I'd be looking to make an exit from Linux. I hope things quiet down around here soon, before Linux goes completely to hell.
And yeah, “compromise” is right. With bots inserting code willy-nilly into Linux and no meaningful human code review, there's nothing stopping those bots from inserting vulnerabilities into the software I rely on for my security and safety.
I don't know. This is what I expect to happen, but whether it has already, I don't know.
@pfr
argv[-1] reshared this.
@mbr As in "By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis"? Yeah.
@libreoffice @pfr @nil
i'm aware the blog post goes in more depth, but i still believe that naming it "no AI is now a feature?" despite *knowing it has AI-generated code* is still incredibly fucking misleading. i was left under a false impression from what people have told me, and now i just know not to trust your word.
also hmm, yes, very professional of you, i'm sure this reply was looked at by multiple people and it wasn't at all reactionary
Not as far as I know. LibreOffice was the go-to FOSS office suite that everybody abandoned everything else for.
codeberg.org/ethical-foss/ai-f…
We thought we had a wholesome non-profit community here. That…does not seem to have actually been the case…
@wobweger @libreoffice @grvsmth @moskitokoenig
Alternatives to FOSS projects choosing to use and/or support LLMs/AI, as well as tips for requesting better policies or forking.Codeberg.org
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@pri
... and this seemingly quiet movement will only accelerate over the coming years.
Thank you for sticking to your principles. Much appreciated.
Simon Brooke reshared this.
I understand that their are issues at Libreoffice, with result that many developers goto #Collabora Office.
So if you want to keep the development, then i understand that Callabora Office (Classic) is better solution then LibreOffice (because the Libre is gone by matter of speaking)
Collabora Office- collaboraonline.com/collabora-…
Collabora Office Classic- collaboraonline.com/collabora-…
OpenOffice become LibreOffice become CollaboraOffice. 👍
Collabora Office Classic delivers an open source, privacy-first office suite for powerful desktop document editing, and trusted, long-term support for enterprises.Collabora Online and Collabora Office
Radio Free Trumpistan reshared this.
so you're telling me that libreoffice is "Zuzai"? (zuzai.org)
congrats!!
About the word zuzai, coined to denote things made or done without artificial intelligence.zuzai.org
Radio Free Trumpistan reshared this.
@parrot I like making words myself, but I have questions.
You mention it is an acronym. What is an acronym for?
When you present a new word, you need to very clear from the getgo what the origin of the word is, what images it leans upon, what meaning you attribute to it. If you don't do this, then the word is going to end up being superficial.
@parrot I would drop the part of whether the word is an acronym, retronym.
Do not bring up widespread adoption, future will reveal itself anyways.
Should we be clear what we mean by AI? No, let people judge by themselves what they consider AI, let language live it's life.
Using an existing word? Or using loanwords? Good question, but this just reveals hesitation about your word. You should not hesitate if you are serious.
The text oozes with hesitation. Not a good sign.
@parrot
I love that you are chalking the word, spending time on making the text and make a webpage, this shows some committment.
You would benefit a lot from revealing the meaning, the soul, the nature of the word as early as possible. Then show how we can use this word in everyday contexts. Can you think of a meaningful sentence that would showcase the force of the word?
Paint the word for us. Make sure it is not abstract, but something that feels real.
I'm confused. I read their post and it implies there is no AI code in LibreOffice currently, but users can choose to install third party extensions that might interact with LLMs.
Edit: oh, I see what you mean.
@Razemix @michal BTW it doesn't stop to amaze me how terrible web Gemini that powers all this is. It bullshits (aka hallucinates) all the time.
The other day I wanted it to help me set up OpenShell. It gave me made-up commands one after another. When I told it to stop bullshitting, it replied: "Sorry, you're right, I actually don't know any OpenShell commands, I assumed they would be the same as podman commands". 🤦♂️
The Gemini models aren't actually that bad, so I assume what is integrated in Google Workspace is very limited to fit into flat rates of like $10-15 per user for the whole service. And at this point, it isn't very useful.
The subsidized tokens gave people false impression that they can get something as powerful as Claude Code, which costs hundreds of dollars a month if you really use it daily at work, in a $15 monthly Office Suite subscription.
Nice. Here in Norway, we've been doing the no (built in) AI features too: vivaldi.com/blog/keep-explorin…
Browsing should push you to explore, chase ideas, and make your own decisions. It should light up your brain. Vivaldi is taking a stand. We choose humans over hype, and we will not turn the joy of…Jon von Tetzchner (Vivaldi Browser)
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I was poking around in my ~/.cache/ folder using OmniDiskSweeper when I spotted something interesting. The OpenAI Codex desktop app (since rebranded to just ChatGPT) has 1.7GB of stuff in …Simon Willison’s Weblog
It has become a commonplace to describe the Microsoft 365 Ribbon as the finest office interface available — the most polished to look at and the most ergonomic to use. The claim is repeated so often that it tends to pass unexamined.Italo Vignoli (TDF Community Blog)
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SOUVERAINETÉ ALIMENTAIRE MAINTENANT !
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UN APERÇU HISTORIQUE ET SA DÉFINITION En 2021, à l’occasion du 25e anniversaire de l’introduction des principes de la souveraineté alimentaire dans le débat sur les politiques alimentaires et agricoles...Via Campesina Français
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Get the document Download United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Peasants and Other People Working in Rural Areas : resolution adopted by the UN General Assembly on December 17th, 2018 Files Language Download Size Français A_RES_73_165-FR 361.Defending Peasants' Rights
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All the fun of short-form video, none of the corporate control. Loops is federated, open-source, and designed to give power back to creators and communities.joinloops.org
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📅 Montag, 27.07.2026
🕢 19:30 Uhr (MEZ)
💻 Online Konferenzraum
Beim Friendica-Admin-Treff kommen Administratorinnen und Administratoren von Friendica-Instanzen sowie Entwicklerinnen und Entwickler zusammen, um sich auszutauschen und voneinander zu lernen.
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Der offene Dialog stärkt nicht nur die einzelnen Instanzen, sondern trägt dazu bei, Friendica als festen Bestandteil im Fediverse weiterzuentwickeln und nachhaltig zu sichern.
Denn: Von einem stabilen, sicheren und gut vernetzten System profitieren wir alle.
Wir freuen uns auf einen konstruktiven Austausch!
#friendica #FriendicaAdminTreff
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attend
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🌾 𝗟𝗮 𝗣𝗲𝘁𝗶𝘁𝗲 𝗙𝗼𝗶𝗿𝗲 𝗣𝗮𝘆𝘀𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗲 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟲 🌻
📅 Samedi 25 & dimanche 26 juillet 🎉
📍 Bergerie de Roiveau, à Tournay-Neufchâteau (Belgique)
📢 L’AGROÉCOLOGIE EST PAYSANNE ET DOIT LE RESTER ✊🏽
• Appel aux bénévoles: lemap.be/lpf/appel-aux-benevol…
• Programme: lemap.be/lpf/programme2026
• Conférences: lemap.be/lpf/conferences-et-at…
• Démonstrations: lemap.be/lpf/prairie
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#LaPetiteFoire2026 #LaPetiteFoirePaysanne2026 #LaPetiteFoire #LaPetiteFoirePaysanne
Venez découvrir les démonstrations sur la prairie : traction animale, low-tech, fauchage à la main, vannerie,… et dans la bergerie grâce à la tonte de mouton et à la filière laine.Johanne (Mouvement d'action paysanne)
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🇪🇺 Your #privacy & #freedoms are at risk.
📢 Send a clear message:
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#ChatControl #ChatKontrolle #CSAM #FightChatControl #StopChatControl #ChatKontrolleStoppen #DigitalRights #HumanRights
Learn about the EU Chat Control proposal and contact your representatives to protect digital privacy and encryption.fightchatcontrol.eu
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🇪🇺 Your #privacy & #freedoms are at risk.
📢 Send a clear message:
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🇪🇺 Your #privacy & #freedoms are at risk.
📢 Send a clear message:
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𝗘𝗡 | 📢🇪🇺 Say no to new GMOs in our fields and in our food : write to your MEPs Members of the European Parliament !
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𝗘𝗦 | 📢🇪🇺¡ No a los nuevos OMG en nuestros campos y nuestras mesas : envía una carta a tus eurodiputados !
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𝗙𝗥 | 📢🇪🇺 Non aux nouveaux OGM dans nos champs et nos assiettes : interpellez vos députés européens !
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𝗘𝗦 | 📢🇪🇺¡ No a los nuevos OMG en nuestros campos y nuestras mesas : envía una carta a tus eurodiputados !
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𝗙𝗥 | 📢🇪🇺 Non aux nouveaux OGM dans nos champs et nos assiettes : interpellez vos députés européens !
👉 eurovia.org/fr/actualite/non-a…
#OGM #StopOGM #StopNouveauxOGM #ViaCampesina #LaViaCampesina #UNDROP #DroitsPaysans #Semences
❌ What’s changing @ deepL.com : deepl.com/en/blog/expanding-de…
✅ Open Source Alternatives : alternativeto.net
#enshitification #deepL #AWS #AmazonWebServices
🗳️ Elecciones en Colombia 🇨🇴
{𝗥} Mercenarios de la comunicación (I): asíopera la red internacional para tumbar lván Cepeda el 31 de mayo 2026
👉 diario-red.com/articulo/colomb…
Esta serie de Diario Red revela que los votantes colombianos enfrentan una operación nacional e internacional de desestabilización mediática y política de cara a las elecciones presidenciales
diario-red.com
#31DeMayo2026 #EleccionesColombia #EleccionesColombia2026 #lvánCepeda #Colombia #31Mayo2026
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Anne Roth
in reply to heise online • • •@mho
Zu den Zahlen: systemli.social/@anneroth/1172…
Die Bestätigung: mastodon.bida.im/@cavallette/1…
Anne Roth
2026-09-07 07:51:58
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC reshared this.
divVerent
in reply to heise online • • •Ich würde mal gerne neutral lesen, welchen "Terror" haben sie denn eigentlich verübt?
Das klingt nämlich nicht sehr terroristisch.
... Show more...Das tut Google mit Gmail und YouTube aber auch. Aber das ist dann OK?
Ich würde mal gerne neutral lesen, welchen "Terror" haben sie denn eigentlich verübt?
Das klingt nämlich nicht sehr terroristisch.
Das tut Google mit Gmail und YouTube aber auch. Aber das ist dann OK?
Sogar die US-Regierung betreibt einen Dienst zum Anonymitätsschutz... nämlich Tor. Sind also auch Terroristen.
Ganz ehrlich, was war da wirklich? Haben sie ungeschwärzte Epstein-Files oder was?
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC reshared this.
M Schommer
in reply to divVerent • • •@divVerent
Sie unterstützten Antifas. Und Antifaschismus ist für Trump-Heritage-MAGA Terror. So einfach ist das.
Hast nicht mitbekommen was mit der Roten Hilfe und mit Hate Aid war?
divVerent
in reply to M Schommer • • •Das tun all die anderen aber auch.
Nur, dass die anderen genannten Dienste auch rechtsradikale Nutzer zulassen.
Kommt mir also nicht nach "das sind Terroristen" vor, sondern eher nach "wenn die anderen Dienste anbieten, müssen sie uns auch anbieten" - bzw. "wenn wir es nicht haben, soll es niemand haben".
Russisch halt.
M Schommer
in reply to divVerent • • •Dann glaub halt was du willst 😀
gunstick
in reply to heise online • • •Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC reshared this.