I posted this on LinkedIn a couple of years ago, but some recent posts made me think it was worth reposting on a platform that people actually read.
No, you don't need to hire more women
You can't solve any problem until you understand the problem that you're trying to solve and diversity and inclusion (D&I) is no different. I was Director of Studies for Computer Science at Murray Edwards (an all-women Cambridge college), have been Chair of the Microsoft Cambridge D&I Committee and sat on the D&I Council for Microsoft Research (worldwide), so this is a topic that I find myself discussing a lot.
A lot of the D&I-related conversations that I've had over the last few years have begun with someone telling me that their group needs to hire more women (or members of some other under-represented group - feel free to mentally substitute any other such group as you read this post) and asking me how to do it.
The number of women in an organisation is very rarely the underlying problem. It is a trailing indicator of an underlying problem, a spot health check, not an optimisation goal. If hiring more women is really the most important requirement, it's easy to solve: walk into any unemployment office and you'll find around half of the people there are women looking for jobs. Of course, most won't have the skills that you need (that, after all, is why you have a hiring process involving CVs, interviews, and so on) and hopefully that gives you a hint that just hiring people because they are women isn't actually the right solution.
It's very easy to set up metrics about number of women in each organisation and drive evaluation of culture based on that. This can often make inclusion worse for your company. Imagine being a woman in an all-hands meeting when someone in a leadership position puts up a graph of the number of women in the org and congratulates the leadership on the fact that it's going up. Your first thought will probably be something along the lines of 'was I hired just to meet some quota?' Your second (more worrying) thought may be 'do all of my co-workers think I was hired to meet some quota?' Now, you're immediately second-guessing your own competence and expecting other people to think you're underqualified.
So why should a company care about the number of women in a group? If just hiring more women doesn't solve the problem, that suggests that what we really want to do is hire and retain the most qualified people; if a particular group is underrepresented, that may be because your hiring and retention favours or disadvantages some people for reasons other than competence. If the best candidates are self-deselecting before you even get them to interview, that's a problem. If the best candidates are being filtered out because HR doesn't really understand the job, or because your hiring process magnifies implicit biases, that's a problem. If the best people are leaving because of your team culture, that's a problem.
When I've talked about D&I, I've often been approached by people afterwards saying that D&I is great, that helping disadvantaged people is nice, but that they need to focus first on business impact. This misses the point. Companies don't engage in D&I activities to be nice or to help people. Companies engage in D&I activities because hiring and retaining the best people has a greater business impact then hiring and retaining the best out of an arbitrary subset of the candidate pool. It's important to keep that in mind with diverse hiring: you are not doing diverse candidates a favour by hiring them, they are doing you a favour by allowing you to benefit from their skills and unique perspectives.
Various studies have shown that teams with diverse perspectives do better. It's easy to focus on a single dimension here but a team of male, rich, white, Eton-educated, Oxford PPE graduates will not get much benefit if they start hiring female, rich, white, Eton-educated, Oxford PPE graduates. Diversity of viewpoints comes from a large number of axes, including education, interests, gender, ethnicity, and so on. Optimising for a single dimension will not give you the desired results.
Even though the root problem for your company is not the number of women that you employ, that statistic is still an easy metric to give us a quick culture health check. In the last few years, the number of women graduating from computer science degrees in the UK has remained at around 20%, so at first glance you should expect an organisation that hires computer science graduates to be about 20% female.
That high-level stat doesn't tell the whole story though. As a middle-class white boy, there are a lot of conversations I never had. No one told me I shouldn't be interested in computers because they're a girl's thing. No one called me a race traitor for being interested in mathematics because it's not a white thing. No one told me 'boys can't code'. No one ignored me as a possible candidate for extra classes in a STEM subject because I was a boy. In my time at Murray Edwards, I heard stories like these from countless (female) STEM students about their time at school.
Any woman who even made it into the first year of an undergraduate computer science programme overcame far more obstacles than someone like me. By the age of 18, they've already shown a passion for the subject that let them push through these barriers. The fact that many will have left the field in spite of their aptitude is a separate problem that schools need to solve. As an employer, are you more interested in the candidates who care deeply about the subject, or the ones that coasted through looking for a well-paid job? If it's the former, then you should probably expect more than 20% of your candidate pool to be women. A lot of under-represented groups are far less under-represented in the top 10% of a field than in the field as a whole. That still doesn't mean that's the metric that you should optimise for, just a suggestion of where your ballpark culture health check should be.
So why is your group less than 20% female? It might be simply a small group. For a team of five people, assuming that 20% of the qualified candidate pool is female and that you hire at random from that pool, you have around a 33% chance of being an all-male team. If you're hiring for a particularly rare skill set, there's a good chance that this will be higher: you're relying on candidates being available on the job market at the same time that you're hiring. The same probabilities work with respect to the available candidate pool: if there are only three qualified candidates on the job market at any given time, there's a >50% chance that they'll all be male. Groups that can hire speculatively (bring in competent people as they become available, rather than needing to hire someone this month) have a big advantage here, by being able to hire the most competent people when they're available.
Does your hiring process favour a particular group? I'm not going to go into detail here because there's a staggeringly large amount of research on this topic. Whoever designs your company's hiring process needs to read a decent selection of this research and consciously design the process to minimise implicit bias. If no one has done this for your company then there's a very good chance that implicit bias is the dominant factor in hiring outcomes. This isn't limited to decisions made by humans. Amazon famously tried to use machine learning for hiring based on their current employee profiles and it learned that being male correlated strongly with being a good hire, so used that as the key metric.
Do your culture or your HR policies favour retention of a particular group? The biggest single improvement that you can make for retaining women is, somewhat counter-intuitively, to improve paternity leave. If you offer six months maternity leave and six weeks paternity leave, then a mother in your team will be four and a half months behind a father. Worse, every manager of a team will have a higher expectation that women on their team may disappear with short notice for longer than men. There are lots of other subtle ways that team culture can favour groups, such as promoting people who speak a lot in meetings and so on.
Gender breakdown isn't the only misleading metric. A lot of gender pay-gap reporting is nonsense because it shows that men and women of the same grade are paid the same, but doesn't account for promotional velocity or the relative expertise of people at a particular grade. If you're using any such metric then you need to be very careful that you treat it as a diagnostic indicator, not as an optimisation goal.
Having a particular group under-represented in your workforce is almost certainly a symptom of an underlying problem but if you try to treat the symptom without treating the cause then you will fail.
fhekland
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •excellent write-up.
I'm curious what kind of response you got on LinkedIn, but I think I know the answer.
I also think that anyone doing hiring should read "The No Asshole Rule" by Robert Sutton if they want to retain the women already hired. Nothing drives away women faster than having a semi-autistic rockstar asshole diva on your team. If you absolutely have to have such a person on your payroll, at least make sure you insulate them from the rest of your employees as much as possible.
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
in reply to fhekland • • •fhekland
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Kerplunk
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •@fhekland
Nothing drives away women faster than having a semi-autistic rockstar asshole diva on your team.
Our, I am the worlds best most wonderful alpha fscking and groping machine guy
did a very good job of damaging a team, our team manager gave everybody the rest because he was like a ball of slime slithering away from all responsibility.
Getting a good team together is hard, balancing and keeping the situation in balance while getting work done maybe the harder task.
Eliza MB
in reply to fhekland • • •fhekland
in reply to Eliza MB • • •David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
in reply to fhekland • • •@fhekland @OneInterestingFact
I suspect that part of it comes down to role models. As a student, the people that the tech industry looked up to were raging egomaniacs. Kind and helpful people were undervalued. There was a strong perception that competence correlated with obnoxiousness and so if you were competent you had to behave like a dick for your ability to be recognised.
In my subsequent experience, the correlation has always been in the opposite direction. People who are actually smart don’t need to compare themselves to others to feel confident and are not threatened by other smart people. When presented with a smart but ignorant junior person, they don’t see a potential threat once the ignorance is cured, they see a potential long-term collaborator. The more people are willing to acknowledge and encourage the contributions of others, the more likely it is that they are the ones making some of the indispensable contributions.
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fhekland
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Unless being in a very secure position, gatekeeping in various forms, whether conscious or unconscious, quickly happens.
Bakunin Boys
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •@fhekland @OneInterestingFact the passive aggressiveness of polite workplaces is way worse than the actual aggressiveness of rude workplaces. I've worked at places where we are aggressively fighting for ideas. Then we laugh and break for lunch and after lunch we aggressively fight for the other guy's ideas. And, yes, women have mentioned that this is not inviting to women, and we really should have done better.
But I've also worked at places where you can give review comments and they aren't actioned and the code is merged anyway, and then managers will talk to you rather than the devs themselves. Basically every meeting and every decision is met with silence, and people who do speak up get frustrated and leave. This is way worse.
If you've ever "sparred" with designers, you know how toxic this can be in an industry. They basically do not know how to t
... Show more...@fhekland @OneInterestingFact the passive aggressiveness of polite workplaces is way worse than the actual aggressiveness of rude workplaces. I've worked at places where we are aggressively fighting for ideas. Then we laugh and break for lunch and after lunch we aggressively fight for the other guy's ideas. And, yes, women have mentioned that this is not inviting to women, and we really should have done better.
But I've also worked at places where you can give review comments and they aren't actioned and the code is merged anyway, and then managers will talk to you rather than the devs themselves. Basically every meeting and every decision is met with silence, and people who do speak up get frustrated and leave. This is way worse.
If you've ever "sparred" with designers, you know how toxic this can be in an industry. They basically do not know how to take or give feedback as an industry discipline. *Software is healthier in this regard*.
Ultimately we must contend with the fact that this is a core job function. We must fearlessly give and receive feedback. We must not be attached to ideas but we still need to own them. We need to find a good balance there. But just going with a "being rude is bad" doesn't really connect with the basic job role.
synlogic4242
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •HTTP 1.1/418 Teapot
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Wendy Nather
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Start by assuming that all candidates are equally qualified. If that’s really the case, why WOULDN’T you want to hire a variety of demographics?
In my experience, it’s the hidden assumption that underrepresented people are inherently less qualified that triggers an objection to DE&I.
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Legit_Spaghetti
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Gina
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Cainmark Does Not Comply 🚲 reshared this.
Gina
in reply to Gina • • •Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary
in reply to Gina • • •Kerplunk
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Maybe the most important sentences in a very insightful post.
It's important to keep that in mind with diverse hiring: you are not doing diverse candidates a favour by hiring them, they are doing you a favour by allowing you to benefit from their skills and unique perspectives.
Having a particular group under-represented in your workforce is almost certainly a symptom of an underlying problem but if you try to treat the symptom without treating the cause then you will fail.
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Irene Zhang
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Irene Y. Zhang: The Moral Implications of Being a Moderately Successful Computer Scientist and a Woman
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JackPearse
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •I am jealous that your server allows so many words 😉
Anyways. Good text!
march38
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •der.hans
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •"Companies engage in D&I activities because hiring and retaining the best people has a greater business impact then hiring and retaining the best out of an arbitrary subset of the candidate pool."
"It's important to keep that in mind with diverse hiring: you are not doing diverse candidates a favour by hiring them, they are doing you a favour by allowing you to benefit from their skills and unique perspectives."
GinevraCat
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •Musing Mouse
in reply to David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) • • •tl;dr
Hiring more women isn’t the solution—it’s a symptom, not the cause. The number of women in an organization is a trailing indicator, not an optimization goal.
Replace headcount-based goals with a real evaluation of root causes
• possible root causes include:
• Biased hiring processes.
• Cultural issues that drive away talent.
• HR policies with unintentional outcomes
D&I drives performance, not charity. Diverse teams bring varied perspectives, which improve outcomes.