an unelected billionaire storming into US agencies, installing his unqualified and unapproved lackeys, purging civil servants, seizing access to sensitive data and payments, unilaterally eliminating federal agencies: fine
@dnddeutsch Calm down, friends, in a real rotten state ransacked by some fascist militia you'd never be told in advance that they'll come for you, even less so would the gangster in chief in person be the one to tell you.
Honesty, both are wrong. Naming private individuals publicly is just as wrong as giving access to someone like Muck. The ones who have to be hold accountable are the once agreeing to it in the first place. All of this is giving me the ick.
Edit ot add: In Bulgaria we had a very nasty anty LGBTQ law managed to pass in schools and there are a list of teachers signing a petition against it. The petition and the names are technically public. The farthest right wing party posted a "black-list" of those teachers to their far right audience and excused themselves saying it's public information. There was harassment, there were dead threats. It was a mess. Do you see now why technicality means nothing in these situations? Wrong is wrong, morally wrong. Is it technically a crime as per Musky suggestion - probably not but still not a move I can support.
Second edit: I'm absolutely not against information being public as I wasn't against the petition being public. But it's one thing having it avaliable to whoever decides to purposely look for it and a whole other thing to p
... show more
Honesty, both are wrong. Naming private individuals publicly is just as wrong as giving access to someone like Muck. The ones who have to be hold accountable are the once agreeing to it in the first place. All of this is giving me the ick.
Edit ot add: In Bulgaria we had a very nasty anty LGBTQ law managed to pass in schools and there are a list of teachers signing a petition against it. The petition and the names are technically public. The farthest right wing party posted a "black-list" of those teachers to their far right audience and excused themselves saying it's public information. There was harassment, there were dead threats. It was a mess. Do you see now why technicality means nothing in these situations? Wrong is wrong, morally wrong. Is it technically a crime as per Musky suggestion - probably not but still not a move I can support.
Second edit: I'm absolutely not against information being public as I wasn't against the petition being public. But it's one thing having it avaliable to whoever decides to purposely look for it and a whole other thing to post it as a sort of black-list to an angry crowd on the other side of the political spectrum as some sort of silent punishment -esque move.
@mwguy They are workers. They are not the decisions makers (in my understanding). They are stupid college kids ffs, they are working for an asshole but they are not the actual issue here.
I'm sorry, since when has saying "a worker named X is doing this job" ever even been an issue? The names of teachers at a school is a matter of public record, and they're just workers. These aren't spies undercover, CIA agents. It's just some people's names.
@jimbob @mwguy In Bulgaria we had a very nasty anty LGBTQ law managed to pass in schools and there are a list of teachers signing a petition against it. The petition and the names are technically public. The farthest right wing party posted a "black-list" of those teachers to their far right audience and excused themselves saying it's public information. It was a mess. Do you see now why technicality means nothing in these situations? Wrong is wrong, morally wrong. Is it technically a crime as per Musky suggestion - probably not but still not a move I can support.
I would say, keep the conversation to the problem, to the action itself, in a open enough manner that you get to outside individuals. Increase the understanging to the problem itself, tackle the problem with enough people against it and then go about the individuals. What's the use now? Flashing the names to an already very liberal crowd that already knows it's a problem, that also just wasn't big enough to prevent it in November. Face the facts, the same size crowd won't be enough now ether. So the mission is an open conversation (not a "hahah stupid republicans", it achieves nothing) about the problematic nature of the actions itself, so you increase the crowd in your corner. You might say that people who elected a felon are a lost couse but let's be real, there is not any other option than to change their mind for a success. And also, those have been some of the same individuals who have elected Obama with a huge majority so the situation is not as simple as (elected Trump = love nazi) as people like to make it be to wash their hands of the unsuccessful liberal compain. And after... show more
I would say, keep the conversation to the problem, to the action itself, in a open enough manner that you get to outside individuals. Increase the understanging to the problem itself, tackle the problem with enough people against it and then go about the individuals. What's the use now? Flashing the names to an already very liberal crowd that already knows it's a problem, that also just wasn't big enough to prevent it in November. Face the facts, the same size crowd won't be enough now ether. So the mission is an open conversation (not a "hahah stupid republicans", it achieves nothing) about the problematic nature of the actions itself, so you increase the crowd in your corner. You might say that people who elected a felon are a lost couse but let's be real, there is not any other option than to change their mind for a success. And also, those have been some of the same individuals who have elected Obama with a huge majority so the situation is not as simple as (elected Trump = love nazi) as people like to make it be to wash their hands of the unsuccessful liberal compain. And after all, every individual, good or bad, is very protective of their money, so if they're welcomed to the conversation, they might be of use to the current issue, even if they are horrible with any other issue.
@mayaisloading You're getting sidetracked by circumstance.
There is a basic right in a democracy for transparency. How you feel it is being used is completely irrelevant. That right allows for accountability and must be upheld.
Accountability is even more important when the individuals being named are a direct threat to the democracy.
And hey, just because you and I can't do anything about these guys doesn't mean no one can.
@solitha @jimbob @mwguy It's pretty relevant if it's shown as ineffective and it's shown as ineffective because good part of the compain against Trump was repeating his charges and crimes and that didn't do shit.
@solitha @jimbob @mwguy The point of my comment clearly is "change the strategy to something more useful" not "scrap laws". But I guess it's easier to do the same thing over again and afterwords cry about it leading to no better result.
@mayaisloading I'm afraid your point wasn't really clear at all.
You came into the thread complaining to multiple people about naming these guys who are actively and illegally working to undermine our nation. Naming them offended your sensibility.
We are in a constitutional crisis and unless you are going to actually submit some of those more useful strategies you mention, maybe don't pull down others who are doing what they can to inform.
@solitha @mayaisloading @mwguy I think my main concern is the idea that these guys are just *innocent workers*, like they all just applied for a government job and happened to end up working for Elon's wrecking crew. They were hand picked, they are ideological, the correct term for them is not "worker", it's "collaborator".
@jimbob @solitha @mwguy I mean they might be handpicked because of their knowledge or because of their ignorance. The second is also a possible strategy. I don't like assumptions.
But the point is, if they just disappear into thin air tomorrow, half an hour later there would be a new team assembled. Nothing would change. But if Trump or Musk disappear, everything would change. So any strategy against the tech guys is basically fruitless at this stage in particular and not worth moving the focuse from the core issue. On top of the lack of morals I see behind black lists.
@mayaisloading They are Elon loyalists. They've worked for him before.
And we know that because they've been IDENTIFIED PUBLICLY so that people could look up their backgrounds.
As @jimbob says, they are collaborators. Co-conspirators. Acting illegally and knowingly.
While it would be utterly delightful for Trump/Musk to "disappear" as you say, the odds of that happening are nil. But naming and shaming might keep other script kiddies from stepping up.
@solitha @jimbob @mwguy Being a Musk fanboy is not a crime in itself, believe it or not. And yes, the intimidating strategy is exactly what I have problem with.
I literally listed a paragraph of more useful strategy to a comment of yours. And you chose to address none of it. And now you act dumbfounded as if I just said nothing works and suggested no alternative. Nah, I didn't suggest a detailed (for a social media comment) alternatives I believe to be much more fruitful.
Also, I don't know what "complaining to multiple people" suppose to mean. I came into the thread, I presented a different viewpoint, which apparently doesn't happen much on social media echo chambers unfortunately. Than I proceeded to answer the comments that popped under my original comment. I'm not like picking people from the thread who didn't interacted to me..?
Lastly, naming them didn't "offend my sensibility", it reminded me of this approach being used to scare and silence people into obedience to a very discriminatory law. Which is apparently the second thing you have failed to read before making the points in your comment.
If you mean the really long one? It was vague and more than a little difficult to comprehend, I'm afraid. I took what I could out of it, and addressed what I thought was important and understood well enough.
I'm not trying to be mean; I gather you're not a native English speaker? And perhaps there's a bit of a language barrier.
@solitha @jimbob @mwguy Do you not understand the concept of open discussion and that doesn't alienate people outside your immediate political view, so you have any chance of moving their views in your direction? 🤔
I also understand we're about to lose OUR WHOLE FREAKING COUNTRY and do immense damage to the world economy and maybe the time for singing Kumbaya is not now.
I am not interested in us making friendly gestures towards people who would like to jump in and help destroy us.
Triage. We need to stop the damage before trying to repair.
you think it will be a minority if the treasury goes down? I don’t.
As far as normalizing this approach? MIS-use of a thing is a problem. But that doesn't mean the thing is the problem. Your Bulgarian teachers? That's a societal problem.
@solitha @jimbob @mwguy If it goes down, it's kinda too late, don't you think?
Yeah, of course, our far right were so pround of themselves they are using this intimidation strategy to "protect our children". Such pure intentions, such a nobel use!
@mayaisloading I hear they are pushing new code directly into production, which means it could go down at any given moment.
Honestly, it feels like you're indulging in magical thinking. We cannot rely on Trump or Musk just "disappearing" and in Trump's case it wouldn't matter. We cannot just talk this out against decades of propaganda.
@mayaisloading Okay, you're editing posts to be longer and longer and I don't have the character limit you do.
"Complaining to multiple people" means I am bad at following threading. Apologies.
Re: "offending your sensibilities"... you're worried these poor innocent kids might get in trouble. But naming them allowed us to see they are not, actually, poor innocent kids. They know what kind of person they're working for, and they very likely know they are acting illegally.
@solitha Sorry, didn't know charecters limit is an issue. I'm not that concerned about them in particular, more about normalizing this approach makes it into a good weapon towards other people (for example the ones protesting the law) and being justified by "well, you did it first".
there's even a concept of citizen's arrest in many countries, including USA; these kids are committing a crime. If a private citizen (usually this just means literally anyone, the citizenship doesn't matter) arrests, leave alone names, any of them, it would be perfectly legal.
Crimes only matter if significant enough portion of the people understand they are crimes. Work on increasing this, the rest is counter productive.
If tomorrow more than half of the world decides murder is not a crime, you can scream the names of murderers to your less than half of the world echo chamber all you want and you will achieve nothing. Trying to shut my points with technicality is precisely why this has even been allowed to happen in November. Because instead of a welcoming open conversation, the liberals are crying "nazis" in the liberals echo chembers and basically change the opinion to no one. Then when the vote was clear, it was such a surprise because one could have never guessed it from the highly liberal echo chamber. And it's very unfortunate turn of events. But yeah, by any means, continue doing the same mistake over and over again.
@dimpase @jaxroam @mwguy Well, guess what, republicans kinda of tried it 4 years ago and failed miserably. Why? Because they significantly overestimated the number of people willing to do it. We get to the same point you need enough number of people in your corner.
@mayaisloading home country? oh well, not everyone really has one. Our home "country" can be perhaps described, qua our passports, as European Union, at best; the only EU language everyone in the family speaks is English. We relocated from UK, where medical services didn't provide our not very healthy son adequate care (any idea how inadequately treated epilepsy looks like?), and schools were routinely excluding him. At least the latter two things are much better here in Illinois, believe it or not.
H1-B visa is a standard temporary employment US visa.
@jaxroam @mayaisloading Historically following order has been an incredibly effective defense for committing crimes. It's really only in WW2 that people following orders were punished en-mass for their crimes.
@mwguy @jaxroam You need enough people to belive it's a crime to punish anyone and at the moment you don't as it was shown in November, so I don't see how this would result it a success at this moment.
@mayaisloading On the contrary they're replacing multiple public figures. They're not just some desk jockey; they're making editorial decisions for the Administration.
@mayaisloading hi Maya, do you think that they do not understand what they have agreed to be the instruments of?
I suppose they know perfectly well what they are doing, and do not care at all that it is illegal because they are aware that once there is no democratic administration, they will never face any consequences. I would not absolve them of their responsibility.
I think people agreeing to dismantle a country under a fascist are the issue.
@ilookloud I don't know (not think, I'm not gonna pretend I can see what they think) if they understand what they are doing is wrong. Honestly, I don't even know if they have thought about checking the legality but even if they have, I'm not gonna assume they are acting with malice. The ones to know both the legality, morality and logistics are the ones elected and presumably "knowledgeable" of politics, finances and logistics. There's noting good coming out of assuming what's in people mind. And it's pretty bold to assume with such certainty a bunch of fresh from college teck guys know shit about running the country.
@mayaisloading we clearly have different perspectives and levels of faith in humankind.
I see these men as complicit in a coup. If they do not care to check if their actions are criminal, that's less important. "I didn't know it is a crime" is not really a defense, and here we're not talking public consumption of alcohol, or advocating for a repressed minority, but dismantling a country. It's serious and deserves public outcry.
@ilookloud Thank you for the "agree to disagree" aproach. Just wahted to clear I'm not against a public outcry here, it's needed, I just disagree with the way it's done.
@mayaisloading @toriver the identities and job titles of US and state government employees, as well as their compensation and, in some jurisdictions, their home addresses, are absolutely public information
this has been the case for some years, and is part of the tradeoff one makes when taking on government employment
@sarae @toriver Reposting from another comment of mine:
In Bulgaria we had a very nasty anty LGBTQ law managed to pass in schools and there are a list of teachers signing a petition against it. The petition and the names are technically public. The farthest right wing party posted a "black-list" of those teachers to their far right audience and excused themselves saying it's public information. It was a mess. Do you see now why technicality means nothing in these situations? Wrong is wrong, morally wrong. Is it technically a crime as per Musky suggestion - probably not but still not a move I can support.
@mayaisloading @toriver yes, I and my children were directly attacked while employed by a US state because my personal information was public
until the US decides to reform this for EVERYONE I can't support the idea that it's ok to harass me at my home for my legally protected labor organizing, but not ok to say the names of these people
@sarae @toriver Public and flashing a blaclist to a social media angry crowd are two different things. They were public before the post too. (And yes, you should have been better protected)
@sheislaurence @toriver I would say, keep a known database with government figures that everyone could access if they want to, don't just flash them to a social media angry crowd that has a good amount of toxic individual in any side of the molitical spectrum, focus on the ones enabling the actions, rather than the ones doing the "diry work" because without being enabled it wouldn't have happend and also strongly focus on the action itself and why it is the wrong choice not in a "us vs them" manner but in a more open conversation manner so it could actually get to much more people and not just the once who already know it's wrong and a problem. That's my 2 cents, that's how I would try tackling a similar situation. It's not perfect but I believe it's at least a tiny bit more effective than mockery and silent intimidation to a handful of collage kids.
@mayaisloading I don't see how these are the same things. The teachers in your example were signing a petition protesting a law and were singled out for that.
These guys are *committing crimes* against the government and people.ot.the US. They may even be stealing from us. So they need to be identified publicly to make sure that that can be held accountable for any and all crimes they commit or abet.
Ok, I might misunderstand the situation 'cause I'm not following closely at all but isn't it basically Trump creating a new government agency with Musky who is given the power to bring whoever he find fitting? (I'm not saying any involvement in Musk or another billionaire with no political experience is ever a right option but if that's the case, it's not a crime, it's dumb governance, or if it's a crime /I don't know the US legal system/ it is a crime from Trump, not from random tech guys brought for the job)
Btw, the far right said also they are outing the teachers because "those teachers are threatening to break the law and families should protect their children from them and ask the schools from explanation". I'm not saying they are right in the slightest but using this argument enables the far right of saying it through their prism and using it to promote hate and alienation so I feel it's just a shaky ground to step onto. Information has to be public but listing individuals on social media is a different step. Information could be public without this too.
@mayaisloading You are close but not quite there yet. There is no official government agency. Musk has been given carte blanche control over federal information technology systems, even though he is not a federal employee, has not been approved by any government entity, and does not hold the requisite security clearances for 99% of what he's doing.
@aerofreak @Ehay2k Because the conversation is kept to a very closed liberal crowd who already knew it's a problem and are using the time to mock a bunch of college students and silently intimidate them instead of making an open conversation about why the action is problematic and getting more people on their side. The same crowd who hasn't been enough to prevent it in November and wouldn't be enough by doing the same thing that was done then - laughing among themselves how stupid the republicans are and alienating instead of educating anyone who dares to get to the liberal part of the internet with not "liberal enough" opinion. Great PR, guys.
Transparency might be a helpful tool if the political system is still intact with checks and balances. Without those it becomes a violent way for the powerful to show themselves being untouchable. A forceful way to say "resistance is futile".
The fact that he is financially dependent on china and has un-monitored phone calls with Putin obviously should have no bearing on this. I am certain that any US government employee applying for a security clearance while receiving massive payments from China would be cleared without any problems.
On the other hand, Musk and Thiel do make Trump's statements that emigrants are destroying our country more plausible.
Great so when is Elon releasing his tax records and that of all of his companies to the public as a gesture of good faith and all his companies government contracts.
That would be the only consistent rule they can muster: Whatever they do is fine, and whatever everyone else does, that even just barely annoys them is straight up treason.
I know that sincere facts are not the point but actually the climate advisor to HUD should be figuring out how to account for climate change (which we agree is real; the new denial position is "nothing to be done") in planning. And "diversification" in this context is almost assuredly about investing in a variety of technology so that our collective national eggs are not in one basket.
I don't know why they let them in. If they don't have valid building passes they should not got past the security area. Next time when they show up detain them and have the police escort them out in handcuffs.
If they are to be allowed access then the type of passes that is for visitors is issued and they are escorted 100% of the time, no exceptions.
Funny, I thought most employees of any government organisations absolutely have to disclose they are such. Exceptions being only CIA like orgs, I guess - which any "oversight board" absolutely is not.
I was reminded recently of this video essay by Skip Intro
Hypocrisy doesn’t matter, because they don’t see it as hypocrisy. While the video is primarily about Jon Stewart, it applies to pretty much every attempt to try and lay “hypocrisy traps” for the right. They don’t care because the point isn’t that _no one_ should do those things, it’s that they believe in a hierarchy and only those at the top of the hierarchy should do those things.
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
he really is a stupid boii. Hes like the cholesterol Icarus flying too close to the stupid cholesterol source, losing brain cells and gaining HGL the longer he stays up there
Purple🐘
in reply to Molly White • • •Kerfuffle
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in reply to Molly White • • •Immigrants picking lettuce: "A threat to our republic!"
An immigrant rummaging through our Treasury: "ZZZZZZZ"
Today's GOP -- Hating America since 1962.
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D3
in reply to Molly White • • •distincte&clare
in reply to D3 • • •Calm down, friends, in a real rotten state ransacked by some fascist militia you'd never be told in advance that they'll come for you, even less so would the gangster in chief in person be the one to tell you.
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in reply to jbz • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Molly White • • •Honesty, both are wrong. Naming private individuals publicly is just as wrong as giving access to someone like Muck. The ones who have to be hold accountable are the once agreeing to it in the first place. All of this is giving me the ick.
Edit ot add:
In Bulgaria we had a very nasty anty LGBTQ law managed to pass in schools and there are a list of teachers signing a petition against it. The petition and the names are technically public. The farthest right wing party posted a "black-list" of those teachers to their far right audience and excused themselves saying it's public information. There was harassment, there were dead threats. It was a mess. Do you see now why technicality means nothing in these situations? Wrong is wrong, morally wrong. Is it technically a crime as per Musky suggestion - probably not but still not a move I can support.
Second edit:
... show moreI'm absolutely not against information being public as I wasn't against the petition being public. But it's one thing having it avaliable to whoever decides to purposely look for it and a whole other thing to p
Honesty, both are wrong. Naming private individuals publicly is just as wrong as giving access to someone like Muck. The ones who have to be hold accountable are the once agreeing to it in the first place. All of this is giving me the ick.
Edit ot add:
In Bulgaria we had a very nasty anty LGBTQ law managed to pass in schools and there are a list of teachers signing a petition against it. The petition and the names are technically public. The farthest right wing party posted a "black-list" of those teachers to their far right audience and excused themselves saying it's public information. There was harassment, there were dead threats. It was a mess. Do you see now why technicality means nothing in these situations? Wrong is wrong, morally wrong. Is it technically a crime as per Musky suggestion - probably not but still not a move I can support.
Second edit:
I'm absolutely not against information being public as I wasn't against the petition being public. But it's one thing having it avaliable to whoever decides to purposely look for it and a whole other thing to post it as a sort of black-list to an angry crowd on the other side of the political spectrum as some sort of silent punishment -esque move.
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mwguy
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Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to mwguy • • •Bela Lugosi's Dad
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Bela Lugosi's Dad • • •Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading I kinda get your point here, but we have public accountability for a reason.
If someone is using that accountability for retaliation, then you address the retaliation. That is the morally wrong part.
Once you start bending accountability rules, both sides have a right to play the game of "but you'll just misuse it" and then the whole system fails.
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Bela Lugosi's Dad
in reply to Solitha • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading You're getting sidetracked by circumstance.
There is a basic right in a democracy for transparency. How you feel it is being used is completely irrelevant. That right allows for accountability and must be upheld.
Accountability is even more important when the individuals being named are a direct threat to the democracy.
And hey, just because you and I can't do anything about these guys doesn't mean no one can.
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •It's pretty relevant if it's shown as ineffective and it's shown as ineffective because good part of the compain against Trump was repeating his charges and crimes and that didn't do shit.
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •People break laws and get away with it so why have laws at all, eh?
Who cares if the people know what's going on in their government? If transparency and accountability are not 100% effective then why have them at all?
No. I do not agree with this.
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •The point of my comment clearly is "change the strategy to something more useful" not "scrap laws". But I guess it's easier to do the same thing over again and afterwords cry about it leading to no better result.
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading I'm afraid your point wasn't really clear at all.
You came into the thread complaining to multiple people about naming these guys who are actively and illegally working to undermine our nation. Naming them offended your sensibility.
We are in a constitutional crisis and unless you are going to actually submit some of those more useful strategies you mention, maybe don't pull down others who are doing what they can to inform.
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Bela Lugosi's Dad
in reply to Solitha • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Bela Lugosi's Dad • • •@jimbob @solitha @mwguy
I mean they might be handpicked because of their knowledge or because of their ignorance. The second is also a possible strategy. I don't like assumptions.
But the point is, if they just disappear into thin air tomorrow, half an hour later there would be a new team assembled. Nothing would change. But if Trump or Musk disappear, everything would change. So any strategy against the tech guys is basically fruitless at this stage in particular and not worth moving the focuse from the core issue. On top of the lack of morals I see behind black lists.
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading They are Elon loyalists. They've worked for him before.
And we know that because they've been IDENTIFIED PUBLICLY so that people could look up their backgrounds.
As @jimbob says, they are collaborators. Co-conspirators. Acting illegally and knowingly.
While it would be utterly delightful for Trump/Musk to "disappear" as you say, the odds of that happening are nil. But naming and shaming might keep other script kiddies from stepping up.
@mwguy @molly0xfff
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •Being a Musk fanboy is not a crime in itself, believe it or not. And yes, the intimidating strategy is exactly what I have problem with.
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading Literally no one said that being a Musk fanboy is a crime.
No one. Ever.
You really have a problem with trying to stop more criminals from committing crime? Seriously?
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •I literally listed a paragraph of more useful strategy to a comment of yours. And you chose to address none of it. And now you act dumbfounded as if I just said nothing works and suggested no alternative. Nah, I didn't suggest a detailed (for a social media comment) alternatives I believe to be much more fruitful.
Also, I don't know what "complaining to multiple people" suppose to mean. I came into the thread, I presented a different viewpoint, which apparently doesn't happen much on social media echo chambers unfortunately. Than I proceeded to answer the comments that popped under my original comment. I'm not like picking people from the thread who didn't interacted to me..?
Lastly, naming them didn't "offend my sensibility", it reminded me of this approach being used to scare and silence people into obedience to a very discriminatory law. Which is apparently the second thing you have failed to read before making the points in your comment.
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •If you mean the really long one? It was vague and more than a little difficult to comprehend, I'm afraid. I took what I could out of it, and addressed what I thought was important and understood well enough.
I'm not trying to be mean; I gather you're not a native English speaker? And perhaps there's a bit of a language barrier.
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •Do you not understand the concept of open discussion and that doesn't alienate people outside your immediate political view, so you have any chance of moving their views in your direction? 🤔
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Yes, I do.
I also understand we're about to lose OUR WHOLE FREAKING COUNTRY and do immense damage to the world economy and maybe the time for singing Kumbaya is not now.
I am not interested in us making friendly gestures towards people who would like to jump in and help destroy us.
Triage. We need to stop the damage before trying to repair.
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •How, with a minority in numbers?
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •you think it will be a minority if the treasury goes down? I don’t.
As far as normalizing this approach? MIS-use of a thing is a problem. But that doesn't mean the thing is the problem. Your Bulgarian teachers? That's a societal problem.
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •@solitha @jimbob @mwguy
If it goes down, it's kinda too late, don't you think?
Yeah, of course, our far right were so pround of themselves they are using this intimidation strategy to "protect our children". Such pure intentions, such a nobel use!
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading I hear they are pushing new code directly into production, which means it could go down at any given moment.
Honestly, it feels like you're indulging in magical thinking. We cannot rely on Trump or Musk just "disappearing" and in Trump's case it wouldn't matter. We cannot just talk this out against decades of propaganda.
1/2
@jimbob @mwguy @molly0xfff
Solitha
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading Okay, you're editing posts to be longer and longer and I don't have the character limit you do.
"Complaining to multiple people" means I am bad at following threading. Apologies.
Re: "offending your sensibilities"... you're worried these poor innocent kids might get in trouble. But naming them allowed us to see they are not, actually, poor innocent kids. They know what kind of person they're working for, and they very likely know they are acting illegally.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Solitha • • •Sorry, didn't know charecters limit is an issue. I'm not that concerned about them in particular, more about normalizing this approach makes it into a good weapon towards other people (for example the ones protesting the law) and being justified by "well, you did it first".
krolden
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Tara Bethany Allard
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading @mwguy stupid college kids with decision making power...
Come on dummy, keep the fuck up.
Ryan the hepcat
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Cainmark Does Not Comply reshared this.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Ryan the hepcat • • •Donald Ball
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Donald Ball • • •mwguy
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •krolden
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Jonny Axelsson
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading @mwguy Following orders is not an excuse when committing a crime.
Expect them to suffer the consequences, while their bosses will get out of jail pardons.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Jonny Axelsson • • •Sure, that strategy will work as well as it worked preventing the problem in November.
Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •there's even a concept of citizen's arrest in many countries, including USA; these kids are committing a crime.
If a private citizen (usually this just means literally anyone, the citizenship doesn't matter) arrests, leave alone names, any of them, it would be perfectly legal.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citize…
The concept of a private citizen being able to make a formal arrest
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱 • • •Crimes only matter if significant enough portion of the people understand they are crimes. Work on increasing this, the rest is counter productive.
If tomorrow more than half of the world decides murder is not a crime, you can scream the names of murderers to your less than half of the world echo chamber all you want and you will achieve nothing. Trying to shut my points with technicality is precisely why this has even been allowed to happen in November. Because instead of a welcoming open conversation, the liberals are crying "nazis" in the liberals echo chembers and basically change the opinion to no one. Then when the vote was clear, it was such a surprise because one could have never guessed it from the highly liberal echo chamber. And it's very unfortunate turn of events. But yeah, by any means, continue doing the same mistake over and over again.
Mᴀʏᴀ reshared this.
Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱 • • •Well, guess what, republicans kinda of tried it 4 years ago and failed miserably. Why? Because they significantly overestimated the number of people willing to do it. We get to the same point you need enough number of people in your corner.
Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱 • • •I might misunderstand what that visa means but I can't imagine living my home country for a country I feel is in need of revolution.
Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading home country? oh well, not everyone really has one. Our home "country" can be perhaps described, qua our passports, as European Union, at best; the only EU language everyone in the family speaks is English. We relocated from UK, where medical services didn't provide our not very healthy son adequate care (any idea how inadequately treated epilepsy looks like?), and schools were routinely excluding him. At least the latter two things are much better here in Illinois, believe it or not.
H1-B visa is a standard temporary employment US visa.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱 • • •Dima Pasechnik 🇺🇦 🇳🇱
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •mwguy
in reply to Jonny Axelsson • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to mwguy • • •You need enough people to belive it's a crime to punish anyone and at the moment you don't as it was shown in November, so I don't see how this would result it a success at this moment.
mwguy
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Dolls Against Gravity
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading hi Maya, do you think that they do not understand what they have agreed to be the instruments of?
I suppose they know perfectly well what they are doing, and do not care at all that it is illegal because they are aware that once there is no democratic administration, they will never face any consequences. I would not absolve them of their responsibility.
I think people agreeing to dismantle a country under a fascist are the issue.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Dolls Against Gravity • • •Dolls Against Gravity
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading we clearly have different perspectives and levels of faith in humankind.
I see these men as complicit in a coup. If they do not care to check if their actions are criminal, that's less important. "I didn't know it is a crime" is not really a defense, and here we're not talking public consumption of alcohol, or advocating for a repressed minority, but dismantling a country. It's serious and deserves public outcry.
We won't agree on it but thanks for the reply.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Dolls Against Gravity • • •Thank you for the "agree to disagree" aproach. Just wahted to clear I'm not against a public outcry here, it's needed, I just disagree with the way it's done.
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Cainmark Does Not Comply reshared this.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Tor Iver Wilhelmsen • • •BeeCycling
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Cainmark Does Not Comply reshared this.
Kid Mania
in reply to BeeCycling • • •Wants to cut the noose...does not believe in scissors.
Sara
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading @toriver the identities and job titles of US and state government employees, as well as their compensation and, in some jurisdictions, their home addresses, are absolutely public information
this has been the case for some years, and is part of the tradeoff one makes when taking on government employment
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Sara • • •@sarae @toriver
Reposting from another comment of mine:
In Bulgaria we had a very nasty anty LGBTQ law managed to pass in schools and there are a list of teachers signing a petition against it. The petition and the names are technically public. The farthest right wing party posted a "black-list" of those teachers to their far right audience and excused themselves saying it's public information. It was a mess. Do you see now why technicality means nothing in these situations? Wrong is wrong, morally wrong. Is it technically a crime as per Musky suggestion - probably not but still not a move I can support.
Sara
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading @toriver yes, I and my children were directly attacked while employed by a US state because my personal information was public
until the US decides to reform this for EVERYONE I can't support the idea that it's ok to harass me at my home for my legally protected labor organizing, but not ok to say the names of these people
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Sara • • •sheislaurence
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to sheislaurence • • •I would say, keep a known database with government figures that everyone could access if they want to, don't just flash them to a social media angry crowd that has a good amount of toxic individual in any side of the molitical spectrum, focus on the ones enabling the actions, rather than the ones doing the "diry work" because without being enabled it wouldn't have happend and also strongly focus on the action itself and why it is the wrong choice not in a "us vs them" manner but in a more open conversation manner so it could actually get to much more people and not just the once who already know it's wrong and a problem. That's my 2 cents, that's how I would try tackling a similar situation. It's not perfect but I believe it's at least a tiny bit more effective than mockery and silent intimidation to a handful of collage kids.
Tara Bethany Allard
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Ehay2k
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading
I don't see how these are the same things. The teachers in your example were signing a petition protesting a law and were singled out for that.
These guys are *committing crimes* against the government and people.ot.the US. They may even be stealing from us. So they need to be identified publicly to make sure that that can be held accountable for any and all crimes they commit or abet.
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Ehay2k • • •Ok, I might misunderstand the situation 'cause I'm not following closely at all but isn't it basically Trump creating a new government agency with Musky who is given the power to bring whoever he find fitting? (I'm not saying any involvement in Musk or another billionaire with no political experience is ever a right option but if that's the case, it's not a crime, it's dumb governance, or if it's a crime /I don't know the US legal system/ it is a crime from Trump, not from random tech guys brought for the job)
Btw, the far right said also they are outing the teachers because "those teachers are threatening to break the law and families should protect their children from them and ask the schools from explanation". I'm not saying they are right in the slightest but using this argument enables the far right of saying it through their prism and using it to promote hate and alienation so I feel it's just a shaky ground to step onto. Information has to be public but listing individuals on social media is a different step. Information could be public without this too.
Ehay2k
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •@mayaisloading
You are close but not quite there yet. There is no official government agency. Musk has been given carte blanche control over federal information technology systems, even though he is not a federal employee, has not been approved by any government entity, and does not hold the requisite security clearances for 99% of what he's doing.
They just show up and say give us the keys.
There is no audit. This is 100% criminal.
Aerofreak | DE/EN
in reply to Ehay2k • • •@Ehay2k
Even if I repeat myself: I still don't get why there's no protests, people on the streets, turmoil.
@mayaisloading @molly0xfff
Mᴀʏᴀ
in reply to Aerofreak | DE/EN • • •Because the conversation is kept to a very closed liberal crowd who already knew it's a problem and are using the time to mock a bunch of college students and silently intimidate them instead of making an open conversation about why the action is problematic and getting more people on their side. The same crowd who hasn't been enough to prevent it in November and wouldn't be enough by doing the same thing that was done then - laughing among themselves how stupid the republicans are and alienating instead of educating anyone who dares to get to the liberal part of the internet with not "liberal enough" opinion. Great PR, guys.
krolden
in reply to Mᴀʏᴀ • • •Alex P. 👹
in reply to Molly White • • •irelephant likes this.
irelephant reshared this.
Molly White
in reply to Molly White • • •irelephant likes this.
reshared this
Schools are superspreaders, HarriettMB, irelephant, Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈⧖, Douglas McMillan and Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC reshared this.
Molly White
in reply to Molly White • • •reshared this
HarriettMB, Douglas McMillan and Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC reshared this.
maya_b
in reply to Molly White • • •Anthony
in reply to Molly White • • •Zen Heathen 🇨🇦
in reply to Anthony • • •SkaveRat 🐀
in reply to Molly White • • •can't wait for all the top secret military stuff to be released.
That's what he means, right?
... Right?
SilentlyEating 🍕
in reply to Molly White • • •christian mock
in reply to Molly White • • •[nate@social0 ~]$
in reply to Molly White • • •Ralf Stubner
in reply to Molly White • • •See also the comment by @tante in this thread: tldr.nettime.org/@tante/113939…
tante
2025-02-03 09:48:46
Alexander Knochel
in reply to Molly White • • •he forgot to put the asterisk (*)
(*) except my data of course
Stephanie Moore
in reply to Molly White • • •Andrew Golding
in reply to Molly White • • •mattlqx
in reply to Molly White • • •Urzl
in reply to Molly White • • •Urzl
in reply to Molly White • • •I tend to favor radical transparency myself but we can't trust *this* regime to do it honestly.
They'll release my tax and other info for public scrutiny while hiding Trump's.
It's all or nothing, they get to release *everything* or they get to STFU and follow the law.
Susan Dusenbury
in reply to Molly White • • •Nine Oh Real
in reply to Molly White • • •lonE just wants to be the only one painting targets...
Btw, good screenshots which, in my oppinion, would be even better with the original timestamp. The fifth one just hasn´t one.
RRB
in reply to Molly White • • •The fact that he is financially dependent on china and has un-monitored phone calls with Putin obviously should have no bearing on this. I am certain that any US government employee applying for a security clearance while receiving massive payments from China would be cleared without any problems.
On the other hand, Musk and Thiel do make Trump's statements that emigrants are destroying our country more plausible.
Matěj Cepl 🇪🇺 🇨🇿 🇺🇦
in reply to Molly White • • •Richard W. Woodley RNKD BLTS 🇨🇦🌹🚴♂️📷 🗺️
in reply to Molly White • • •Great so when is Elon releasing his tax records and that of all of his companies to the public as a gesture of good faith and all his companies government contracts.
##GooseGander
caranea
in reply to Molly White • • •Veronica Olsen 🏳️🌈🇳🇴🌻
in reply to Molly White • • •Gary Houston
in reply to Molly White • • •Hajo Thelen
in reply to Molly White • • •yeah sure
Open Data for me but not for thee
Rachel Schrader
in reply to Molly White • • •Joachim Lykke
in reply to Molly White • • •Santiago
in reply to Molly White • • •Lasko
in reply to Molly White • • •Amanda Bee
in reply to Molly White • • •DEDGirl
in reply to Molly White • • •Tammy Gentzel
in reply to Molly White • • •Aerofreak | DE/EN
in reply to Molly White • • •Thomas Traynor
in reply to Molly White • • •I don't know why they let them in. If they don't have valid building passes they should not got past the security area. Next time when they show up detain them and have the police escort them out in handcuffs.
If they are to be allowed access then the type of passes that is for visitors is issued and they are escorted 100% of the time, no exceptions.
gdtrfb57
in reply to Molly White • • •CohenTheBlue
in reply to Molly White • • •Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈 reshared this.
Scott Frazer
in reply to Molly White • • •I was reminded recently of this video essay by Skip Intro
Hypocrisy doesn’t matter, because they don’t see it as hypocrisy. While the video is primarily about Jon Stewart, it applies to pretty much every attempt to try and lay “hypocrisy traps” for the right. They don’t care because the point isn’t that _no one_ should do those things, it’s that they believe in a hierarchy and only those at the top of the hierarchy should do those things.
youtu.be/WVrbVYnUYmY?si=V8nGIw…
- YouTube
youtu.begavinisdie
in reply to Molly White • • •vruz
in reply to Molly White • • •It seems that the FBI didn't get the memo when he announced it.
You and I can think many things of this guy, but that he didn't give a warning isn't one of them.
chris actually
in reply to Molly White • • •irelephant likes this.
TheNovemberFella ✊🏳️🌈 🇺🇦☸️🛰️🚀
in reply to Molly White • • •Fuck, someone please punch #Elon in the throat.
#ElonMuskIsANazi
pa27
in reply to TheNovemberFella ✊🏳️🌈 🇺🇦☸️🛰️🚀 • • •TheNovemberFella ✊🏳️🌈 🇺🇦☸️🛰️🚀 reshared this.
TheNovemberFella ✊🏳️🌈 🇺🇦☸️🛰️🚀
in reply to pa27 • • •irelephant likes this.
jbz
in reply to Molly White • • •Anselm Schüler
in reply to Molly White • • •Makyris
in reply to Molly White • • •Tara Bethany Allard
in reply to Molly White • • •-=|| ΔDΔΤΗΘΓ ||=-
in reply to Molly White • • •xs4me2
in reply to Molly White • • •Muscat
in reply to Molly White • • •Sensitive content
Muscat (@Jerko@mstdn.social)
Mastodon 🐘