Journalist The Atlantic zat onbedoeld in topgeheime chatgroep Amerikaanse regering
Trump weet van niets“Een beveiligingslek als dit heb ik nog nooit meegemaakt”, besluit Goldberg. “Het is niet ongebruikelijk dat veiligheidsfunctionarissen communiceren via Signal, maar de app wordt voornamelijk gebruikt voor het plannen van vergaderingen en andere logistieke zaken. Niet voor gedetailleerde en geheime besprekingen over een aanstaande militaire actie.”
In het Witte Huis stelden journalisten Trump vragen over het artikel in The Atlantic. “Ik weet er niets van. Ik ben geen fan van The Atlantic”, reageerde Trump. “Het is een tijdschrift dat failliet zal gaan.”
#blunder #ict #topgeheim #beveiliging #vs #yemen
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Wie zijn de Trump-fluisteraars?
nos.nl/nieuwsuur/video/2560653…
Stephen Miller, de belangrijkste adviseur van Trump. Miller is een van de weinige mensen die al tien jaar trouw is aan de president. Hij is topadviseur als het gaat om binnenlands beleid en de architect van het harde anti-immigratie beleid.
#trump #doge #project2025
Trump holds PRESSER in AM and it Quickly GOES OFF THE RAILS
youtube.com/watch?v=7_TWOjOFyF…
Meidas Touch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump's disastrous press conference this morning where he talked about invading Canada and naming the new fighter jet the F-47.
Trump holds DISASTER PRESSER for UNTHINKABLE ORDER
youtube.com/watch?v=lb9d9I-Phj…
Meidas Touch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump's disastrous press conference where he announces the elimination of the Department of Education.
‘50 States’ Anti-Trump Protests Movement LIVE | US Capitol Hill LIVE | Trump Latest News
youtube.com/live/WRccUgGCi1U?s…
Demonstrators across all 50 states are set to participate in the 50501 Movement, a nationwide protest against the policies and executive orders of President Donald Trump. The movement, also known as“50 states, 50 protests, one day,” has gained traction through social media and grassroots organizing, with marches planned at state capitols nationwide.
#antitrumpprotest #washingtondc #trumpnews #trump #usa #moneycontrol #protest #trumpnews #antitrumpprotest
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Instellingen willen Nederlandse wetenschappers uit VS terughalen
“De vrijheid van wetenschap staat enorm onder druk in de VS”, zegt NWO-voorzitter Marcel Levi. “Er worden op dit moment veel wetenschappelijke subsidies geblokkeerd. Veel wetenschappers voelen zich in de VS erg ongemakkelijk.”
#doge #project2026 #trump #fascisme #wetenschap
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Israël schendt staakt-het-vuren met grootschalige aanval Gaza, meer dan 300 doden gemeld
Correspondent Israël en de Palestijnse Gebieden Nasrah Habiballah:“Israël legt de schuld bij Hamas en zegt dat deze aanvallen het gevolg zijn van het feit dat Hamas weigert om meer gijzelaars vrij te laten. Maar Hamas wijst juist naar Israël dat weigert om stappen te zetten richting een permanent einde aan de oorlog, wat volgens de deal eigenlijk was afgesproken.
Met het volledig blokkeren van alle noodhulp en stroom aan Gaza probeerde Israël Hamas onder druk te zetten dat ze toch meer gijzelaars vrij zouden laten, zonder garanties te krijgen dat Israël de oorlog zou stoppen. En nu gaat Israël dus nog een stap verder door Gaza opnieuw te bombarderen. We weten ook dat premier Netanyahu onder druk staat vanuit zijn coalitie om door te gaan met de aanvallen.
Zijn ultrarechtse coalitiepartners zijn tegen welke deal dan ook met Hamas en willen doorgaan met oorlog voeren.”
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Trump zet streep door Voice of America en Radio Free Europe
Weer zet Trump een handtekening onder een decreet, en daarmee een streep door -dit keer- de Voice of America en Radio Free Europe. Dat zijn onafhankelijke nieuwszenders voor mensen in landen waar geen onafhankelijk nieuws meer is.
#persvrijheid #europa #change #trump
Led By Donkeys stage 'world's biggest Elon Musk protest' on Welsh beach
thenational.scot/news/25015445…
THE "world's biggest anti-Elon Musk protest" has been staged on a beach in Wales.Campaign group Led By Donkeys used a Tesla to rake out the words "DON'T BUY A TESLA" alongside an image of Musk giving a "Nazi salute".
The message was created on Black Rock sands near Porthmadog in Wales, and is supposedly visible from space.
#fascism #musk #tesla #doge #trump #change
Veteran DRAGGED OUT OF MAGA Town Hall As CHAOS ERUPTS!
youtube.com/watch?v=1DvQoSgoOK…
Political commentator Jack Cocchiarella reacts to a veteran being kicked out of a MAGA Republican Chuck Edwards' town hall.
Trump is doing a great job of bankrupting America. I feel sorry for you. He doesn't give a damn about the lives of ordinary citizens in the US or Europe. There is no plan behind it, unlike Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping.
Trump PANICS on Thursday AM as HE COLLAPSES IT ALL
youtube.com/watch?v=fuDnh77gxt…
Meidas Touch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump's disastrous Thursday morning as he panics even more.
Focus: Wetenschap in de vuurlinie van Trump | NPO Start
npo.nl/start/serie/focus/seizo…
De regering-Trump is bezig met een harde aanval op de wetenschap: subsidies worden stopgezet, publicaties verdwijnen van het internet en wetenschappers worden monddood gemaakt. Wat betekent dit voor Nederland? Petra Grijzen spreekt met topwetenschappers over de impact op Nederlands onderzoek. Raken wij ook verstrikt in deze wetenschappelijke crisis?
#wetenschap #doge #project2025 #trump #beschaving #democratie
Laat de Israëlische ambassade weten: no more genocide
amnesty.nl/kom-in-actie/acties…
!De tijd tikt! Elke dag is er wéér risico op burgerslachtoffers. Kom in actie en stuur je bericht naar de Israëlische ambassade
#gaza #israel #knesset #mensenrechten #genocide #petitie
Het is genoeg! Help je mee om de genocide van Palestijnen in Gaza te stoppen? Zorg dat de telefoon op de Israëlische ambassade roodgloeiend staat.
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Zet een streep door de asielwetten!
campagnes.degoedezaak.org/camp…
De asielnoodmaatregelenwet gaat voorbij aan de broodnodige controlerende functie van de Tweede Kamer en zet mensenrechten buitenspel. Mail nu de kamerleden en roep ze op de wet tegen te houden!
#democratie #mensenrechten #asielwetten #petitie
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‘Zonnestroom na 2027 nauwelijks meer wat waard’
bnr.nl/nieuws/duurzaamheid/105…
Met het afschaffen van de salderingsregeling in 2027 lijkt de waarde van stroom afkomstig van zonnepanelen als sneeuw voor de zon te verdwijnen. Energiebedrijf Greenchoice heeft berekend dat de tarieven zullen dalen naar een schamele 0,25 cent per kilowattuur, terwijl analisten vooralsnog uitgaan van 5 cent. Een daling van 95 procent. Marc Londo van de Nederlandse Vereniging Duurzame Energie (NVDE) is niet verbaasd. ‘We zien nu al dat er negatieve prijzen in de markt zijn.’
#energie #zonnestroom #salderingsregeling #zonnepanelen #energieopslag #greenchoice
Timothy Garton Ash: 'Dit is een nieuw tijdperk in de Europese geschiedenis'
nos.nl/nieuwsuur/video/2559056…
Hoogleraar Europese studies Timothy Garton Ash zegt dat Europa er voorlopig alleen voor staat: 'Maar gelukkig zijn we rijk en sterk en kunnen we voor onszelf opkomen.'
#geschiedenis #toekomst #europa #nwo #oorlog #vrede
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Israël stopt stroom naar Gaza, humanitaire situatie stort verder in
"Het is zo moeilijk. Er is geen water en geen elektriciteit. We moeten water in emmers een lange weg naar huis dragen", zegt Laila Okasha. Ze woont in Jabalia, een door Israël vernietigde plaats in het noorden van Gaza.
Ophef in Horn over ontgrinding en uitkijktoren: dorpsoverleg gaat verhaal halen bij gemeente - VML Nieuws
vmlnieuws.nl/leudal/ophef-in-h…
Stichting Dorpsoverleg Horn heeft een brief naar de gemeente Leudal gestuurd vanwege hun zorgen over de ontwikkelingen rondom de bouw van een 82 meter hoge uitkijktoren aan de Roermondseweg. Ook zijn er vragen over het graven van een sleuf nabij de Breeweg. “Waarom is hierover niet gecommuniceerd met de dorpelingen?”, vraagt men zich af.
#horn #leudal #misstanden
Trump in FULL COLLAPSE as he Quickly RUINS EVERYTHING
youtube.com/watch?v=OUBm-W5AQD…
Meidas Touch host Ben Meiselas reports on Trump imploding as he destroys everything he touches as he always did in his pathetic life of grift and scams and bankruptcy.
Drie biggetjes gestolen die kunstenaar in Denemarken voor dood had achtergelaten om statement te maken
ad.nl/buitenland/drie-biggetje…
“We begrijpen de verontwaardiging, frustratie en zelfs de woede over de verwaarlozing van miljoenen varkens in de Deense varkensindustrie”, zegt Birgitte Damm, hoofdadviseur bij dierenwelzijnsorganisatie Animal Protection Denmark, over het idee van Marco Evaristti. “Dit gaat al decennia zo en het is compleet onacceptabel. Maar we kunnen niet toestaan dat drie biggetjes moeten lijden om zo een punt te maken.”
Door VS opgeschorte inlichtingen zijn 'absoluut cruciaal voor Oekraïne'
Niet alles komt tot stilstand, maar aanvallen in de diepte worden veel moeilijker.— Bas Rietjens, hoogleraar Intelligence in War
Ontzeg Donald Trump de toegang tot Nederland! | DeGoedeZaak
actie.degoedezaak.org/petition…
Tijdens de komende NAVO-top in den Haag is het waarschijnlijk dat Donald Trump (president van de VS) ook aanwezig is. Wij roepen de Tweede Kamer op om hem de toegang tot Nederland te ontzeggen.Donald Trumps polariserende, discriminerende, fascistoïde, en haat zaaiende uitlatingen en handelingen druisen in tegen de Nederlandse normen en waarden en onze wetgeving. Zoals vaker gebeurt met personen met een criminele staat van dienst, of die voor Nederlandse begrippen ongewenste ideeën prediken zou hem ook de toegang tot ons land ontzegd
The Independent:
AOC calls Elon Musk a ‘leech’ on the public
“This guy is a leech on the public. No matter how many billions he gets in tax cuts and government contracts, it will never be enough for him,” the representative wrote on X Saturday.
“Now he’s going after the elderly, the disabled, and orphaned children so he can pocket it in tax cuts for himself,” Ocasio-Cortez continued. “It’s disgusting.”
independent.co.uk/news/world/a…
#News #Politics #ElonMusk #Trump #Democracy #Democrats
AOC calls Elon Musk a ‘leech’ on the public as their tit-for-tat feud continues
‘No matter how many billions he gets in tax cuts and government contracts, it will never be enough for him,’ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez saidKelly Rissman (The Independent)
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A government that issues and spends in its own currency is not financed by tax dollars.
He takes food out of the mouths children, medicine from the sick, precious beneficial public services such as NOAA FAA or NIH, while his economic class directs every last dime of federal spending into their own pockets. Evil men then demand we pay tax to reduce the money supply provided by the deficit, while they who take the majority of $ do not.
#mmt
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tit for tat implies a petty argument. Calling that utter pig, and self identified nazi a "leech" when he is advocating more tax cuts for himself at the expense of -many- social safety nets 1) is accurate, and 2) describes criminal level destruction he is engaged in- *edit*which isn't trivial. His actions are reprehensible. Her words are nicer than called for.
But I have some criticism for AOC : I mean WTF is she -still- doing on twitter, for starters.
America is a plutocracy.
Rule of the rich.
Plutocracies always collapse because the interested parties get too greedy. This is where we are headed under Trump.
Or.... the rich get together to curtail their greed before collapse. This is unlikely to happen under Trump.
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abovethelaw.com/2025/02/musk-l…
Musk Leverages His Unelected Non-Existent Authority And Expertise To Steal $2 Billion FAA Contract From Verizon
From the what-conflict-of-interest? dept.Techdirt (Above the Law)
We need a dozen more AOC's in Washington fighting for us!
Another reason Pelosi, Schumer and Jefferies need to go --- they won't stand up for her while she fights for us.
Why are there still so many "democratic" institutions at X? Or at WhatsApp, Insta, Meta? I don' t understand it.
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Dem Goes PUBLIC After Elon CAUSES DEATH In SHOCKING Scandal!
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Amerikaanse conservatieve lobby achter Project 2025 maakt miljoenen over aan Europa - Zembla - BNNVARA
bnnvara.nl/zembla/artikelen/am…
Amerikaanse conservatieve lobby-organisaties maakten de afgelopen zeven jaar bijna 60 miljoen over naar Europa. Dat blijkt uit honderden belastingformulieren van in totaal 21 organisaties die Zembla analyseerde. Ruim driekwart van het geld komt van lobbygroeperingen die betrokken zijn bij het controversiële Project 2025: het vergaande strategische plan om president Trump te helpen om Amerika te transformeren naar een conservatief christelijke natie. Ook in Europa strijdt de conservatief christelijke beweging voor traditionele gezinswaarden, zelfs als dit ten koste gaat van democratische grondrechten, stellen deskundigen in Zembla. Sommige van deze organisaties willen voorbehoedsmiddelen, homoseksualiteit en abortus verbieden en scheiden moeilijker maken.
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Israël blokkeert per direct de invoer van hulpgoederen naar Gaza
Correspondent Israël en de Palestijnse Gebieden Nasrah Habiballah:“Eigenlijk zou nu de tweede fase moeten beginnen, waarbij Israël zijn leger volledig terugtrekt en er een permanent einde aan de oorlog komt. Maar Israël wil dat niet. In plaats daarvan willen ze een verlenging van het tijdelijke staakt-het-vuren, waarbij Hamas ook nog meer gijzelaars vrijlaat.
Hamas weigert dat. De gijzelaars zijn de enige troef die ze hebben. Zij zeggen dus: wij laten pas meer mensen vrij als Israël volgens de afspraak zijn leger terugtrekt en er een permanent einde aan de oorlog komt. Nu probeert Israël Hamas op een andere manier onder druk te zetten.
Het blokkeren van noodhulp is een ramp voor de Gazaanse bevolking. Er zijn al anderhalf jaar tekorten aan water, voedsel en medicatie. Die noodhulp is tijdens de eerste fase van het bestand wel opgeschroefd. Hulporganisaties benadrukken echter dat het enkel voldoende was om te voorkomen dat mensen honger lijden, maar ook niet meer dan dat.
De tekorten zijn nog altijd enorm, niet alleen aan voedsel en medicijnen, maar ook aan onderdak. Dit besluit van Israël zal gevolgen hebben voor alle Gazanen, en kan voor de meest kwetsbare Gazanen mogelijk fataal zijn.
Achter de schermen wordt nog altijd geprobeerd om de boel te redden. Er klinken ook wel geluiden dat Hamas er mogelijk toch voor openstaat om alsnog een aantal gijzelaars vrij te laten, maar ze weigeren alle gijzelaars vrij te laten zonder de garantie dat de oorlog permanent wordt beëindigd. Het is dus de vraag of ze eruit zullen komen.”
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Laten we hopen dat deze top voldoende constructief zal blijken. Het is nu of nooit. Ik wens Keir Starmer als gastheer heel veel succes.
Top onder hoogspanning in Londen: nieuwe realiteit dwingt Europa tot keuzes
nos.nl/l/2557877
“De rol die premier Starmer probeert in te vullen als een brug tussen Europa en de VS is na de ruzie tussen Zelensky en Trump nog noodzakelijker geworden. Want zo hoopvol als de stemming donderdag nog was na het bezoek van Starmer aan Trump, zo verpletterend slecht was die op vrijdag na de publieke confrontatie tussen Zelensky en Trump.Het is voor Starmer een wankel evenwicht: hij wil Zelensky steunen en Europese leiders op Brits grondgebied ontvangen, maar toch ook de rol van bemiddelaar spelen in de ruzie met de Amerikanen.
Starmer heeft sinds zijn aantreden veel tijd en moeite gestoken in betere relaties met EU-leiders. Die inzet, gecombineerd met de zorgelijke situatie in de wereld en het terugtrekken van de VS, maakt dat er een duidelijke leidende rol voor de Britten ligt binnen Europa. Of ze nu wel of geen lid zijn van de Europese Unie, doet er nu even niet toe.”
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Oud-hoofdredacteur The Washington Post verbijsterd: ‘Bezos zwicht voor Trump’
Democracy dies in darkness, democratie sterft in duisternis, staat steevast bovenaan de voorpagina van The Washington Post. Maar is de krant dat motto nog wel waard, vraagt oud-hoofdredacteur Martin Baron zich af.
"Het fundament van democratie is uitgebreid debat. Dat de krant veel meningen niet meer toestaat, is een heel radicale stap die volledig tegengesteld is aan het motto."
#fascisme #oligarchie #nwo #persvrijheid #vs #trump
Trump SCREAMS at Zelenskyy in Oval Office MELTDOWN
youtube.com/watch?v=TRcUumrC8b…
MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump’s disastrous meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy in the Oval Office.
Someone asked: “Did anyone else get really uncomfortable watching this?” Many many confirmed.
Our dear mother recently passed away. She was severely traumatized by what the Nazis did to her. Then you think that the fascists were defeated after WWII, and then you get this. Well, what do you think? No, something like that should not leave a person untouched. So I understand the discomfort all too well.
#nwo #fascism #usa #europe #ukraine #russia #politics #ww3 #trump #vance #zelenskyy
Nmm kreeg Zelensky niet de ruimte zijn punt te maken, ruimte die hij en zijn volk zeker verdient. Was het vooropgezet, wellicht maar bewijs ervoor heb ik niet. NAVO-baas Rutte wil de VS er uiteraard bij houden en daar zal alles ondergeschikt aan moeten zijn. Of het überhaupt haalbaar is en wenselijk bovendien, ik waag het te betwijfelen.
NAVO-baas Rutte: Zelensky moet relatie met Trump herstellen
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Ik verwacht niet dat de NAVO noch te redden is. We zullen onze eigen broek op moeten houden en we hebben niet de luxe hiermee te wachten. Dissidenten als Orbán zullen toch echt kleur moeten bekennen want zo dooretteren is niet in het belang van een verenigd Europa. Ik weet dat nationalisten het niet willen horen, maar mooier kan ik het helaas niet maken. De VS loopt in de maat met Poetin om ons verder te verzwakken. Eigenlijk is Trump een jaloers, nukkig kind met een gevaarlijke dosis ressentiment die eigenlijk gewoon berecht had moeten worden voor zijn aandeel in de capitoolbestorming. Luister ook maar eens wat Rob de Wijk erover te zeggen heeft.
Wat moet Europa doen na ruzie in het Witte Huis? ‘NAVO-top afzeggen zou slimme zet zijn’
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Laten we hopen dat deze top voldoende constructief zal blijken. Het is nu of nooit. Ik wens Keir Starmer als gastheer heel veel succes.
Top onder hoogspanning in Londen: nieuwe realiteit dwingt Europa tot keuzes
Vrijdag 28 februari 2025
Vijftien dagen gingen voorbij zonder jullie hier even bij te praten over het heengaan van onze moeder. Vader ging haar al bijna vijftien jaar geleden voor. Zelf net zestig geworden zal ik het nu toch echt zonder pappa en mamma moeten stellen. Mijn gedachten gaan alle kanten op ook vooral door de bijzondere tijden waarin we zijn beland. Denk ik aan mijn ouders, dan voel ik toch vooral de warmte die zoveel troost geeft. Daar ben ik hen zo dankbaar voor. Heb ze voor altijd in mijn hart gesloten.
Gisteren een week terug namen we als familie en naasten afscheid. Het was een ontroerend mooi en informeel samenzijn op een prachtige locatie in het hart van ons immer mooie Leudal. Een moment om herinneringen op te halen met vele foto’s, verhalen, dans en muziek. Ik zal hier vast nog foto's van haar gaan delen. Voor nu laat ik het bij de amaryllis die hier zo fier staat te bloeien. ❣️🧸✨
Verder wil ik jullie nog het volgende pianomuziekje dat zo even te horen was op vrt radio meegeven.
Händel: Suite nr. 15 in d mineur voor klavecimbel, HWV 447: 1. Allemande, uitgevoerd op piano door Keith Jarrett
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Wens jou en allen die je moeder na aan het hart stonden heel veel sterkte dit verlies te verwerken. Warme omhelzing voor jou en natuurlijk ook Ine... Liefs van ons ❤️
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Freek de Jonge, Remy van Kesteren & Carel Kraayenhof - Erik Satie - Vraag me niet | Podium Klassiek
youtube.com/watch?v=XglAVpZ-mG…
Podium Klassiek omarmt de wereld van de klassieke muziek, maar zoekt ook de grenzen op met andere genres zoals pop, wereldmuziek, of jazz. Met ruimte voor bijzondere verhalen, jong talent en optredens van topmusici.
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It is now illegal to transmit personal information of EU citizens to cloud infrastructure in the #US as they won't be protected by the #GDPR.
Many European service providers will have to move quickly to avoid fines, but eventually #EU data will be held in the EU, benefiting companies in Europe, and supporting #DigitalSovereignty.
That means AWS, Azure, Google and iCloud can lose a sizeable chunk of their customer base if no moves are made. I am all for it.
berthub.eu/articles/posts/you-…
It is no longer safe to move our governments and societies to US clouds - Bert Hubert's writings
The very short version: it is madness to continue transferring the running of European societies and governments to American clouds.Bert Hubert's writings
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the elephant in the room there, is that #Signal servers are said to be mostly on Amazon AWS.
Maybe they are thinking of an alternative like #Deltachat (with a posteo.net email address, or other such auto-encrypted email address not hosted on US soil)? This alternative exists right now, it's just that posteo.net addresses are not free to rent. Merely inexpensive. It's cross-platform: is said to be stable, even on #MacOS and #iOS or #iPadOS
So I guess #Deltachat is free to use in that sense. I'm using this test account to E2E-encrypted chat with my posteo.net account in Deltachat in #linux.
#Android
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@scatty_hannah So considering the importance of not leaking data - what would you say with respect to Google Assistant and Apple Intelligence Report? Do you propose to remove those on everyone's mobile devices across the board somehow? Do you see any possible leakage of data there? c.im/@sbb/114032786446300932
Even though #Signal *itself* has sound security - taken in isolation - it's always moored in an ecosystem (that of smartphones which run #iOS or #Android) which, by default, have #AI set up to shoulder-surf Signal, sending reports back to the mothership. In #iOS, that AI is called "#Apple Intelligence", and in #Android, it's called #Google Assistant. Repeat, these are on by default. *Only a small percentage of your family, friends, colleagues, and fellow country-persons will pain-stakingly disable these.*Sure, Signal itself is secure by default, but "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link". And the weakest link is the ecosystem which Signal is moored in - that of smartphones policed and patrolled by AI, which report back to their respective motherships *in a strong majority of cases*.
Alternatives like #Deltachat (for normies willing to open their wallets/purses to rent an auto-crypt-compatible email address) and #XMPP (easily free to use, however realistic and mature only for non-iOS/#MacOS-users at present) have comparable E2E encryption. Deltachat and XMPP *don't* require smart-phone "moorings" - thereby making it much more realistic to dodge the almost-pervasively AI-patrolled ecosystems.
@sbb @scatty_hannah You can trivially use GrapheneOS to get rid of Google Assistant. Also the Android security model prevents Assistant from just reading your messages, because smartphones actually have a much better permission model than anything else.
And again, Delta Chat is *provably* leaking data. A *lot*. Whilst everything else is very theoretical mind games that currently are not happening. You can introspect what happens on a smart phone, you can audit access by GAssistant, etc. All that you talk about is not happening.
@chiraag @tortie @sbb @Mer__edith This is not "the elephant in the room" and neither is deltachat a reasonable alternative. The metadata that delta leaves is *significant* and can be tied to an individual. That's why it is crucial to use a "trusted" mail provider, because delta doesn't use any of the advancements in cryptography of the last decade.
The data traces Signal leaves on AWS is not personal data, the metadata is minimal and they make efforts to reduce it further. AWS is still a problem, but one of Availability (what if Bezos cancels his contract with them?).
Please do not compare them based on where they store the data, if the amount and kind of data stored is very different.
I wish that the #EU would clarify its stance regarding #Signal: *is the AWS hosting problematic for them or not*? Let's assume *not OK* for a minute.
As to a Signal alternative, I *wish* I could recommend #XMPP over #Deltachat today. *AFAIK*, in XMPP, #OMEMO does perfect forward secrecy/double-ratcheting - but alas, the #iOS and #MacOS clients aren't the greatest at present. That lack of all common OS' having feature parity (very reliable notifications, Reactions, etc.) makes me hesitate in recommending XMPP for *everyone* today (but it's great for geeks).
Whereas Deltachat at least has usability parity for features across each OS it supports (which I feel users would highly expect *first*, before demanding a more modern encryption). Yes, autocrypt has no perfect forward secrecy, etc. and other metadata-related criticisms. But Deltachat is simple enough to learn, *allows servers to realistically be used in the desired country*, and works on all the common platforms. It's a decent choice for *today*, as a well-rounded choice (where tradeoffs must be made somewhere). And once the XMPP clients get better (in MacOS/iOS), I'll recommend XMPP as a goto *then*.
Darren Nevares reshared this.
@sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith EU's stance is quite clear: It's about PII. Signal stores no data relevant to the GDPR in the first place, thus it is completely irrelevant from a legal perspective where the data is stored. But this is only the "legality" and privacy regulatory aspect. Furthermore, from a security perspective, the data stored cannot be tied to you. You can look at leaked internal FBI documents detailing what info they get from Signal, if you really want to. So to conclude this: There's no such assumption to be made.
And sure, users often demand features first, encryption second. But this post was about the handling of PII and not about features. And your "well-rounded compromise" is a very bad compromise indeed, when you don't compromise on properties that are completely irrelevant with proper encryption (location) but compromise on features that are relevant regardless of where your server is located (encryption). This is a very bad trade-off indeed.
If you don't even know what Signal does (not) store on their servers, then I surely hope you don't give any recommendations, because they can only be uninformed.
@ljrk @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith please don't abandon Signal for those way less secure alternatives because of this. This kind of misinformation puts people in danger.
Here are just a few examples:
soatok.blog/2024/08/04/against…
soatok.blog/2024/08/14/securit…
Against XMPP+OMEMO - Dhole Moments
XMPP is a messaging protocol (among other things) that needs no introduction to any technical audience. Its various implementations have proliferated through technical communities for decades. Many…Dhole Moments
I think this is a little Signal evangelical, tbh. I think the most common and most valid critique of xmpp + omemo is that you don't know what the servers of the people you converse with log, metadata wise.
The big disadvantage of signal is that you need a phone number. And until very recently that this phone number was publicly announced to anyone in a group chat. Quite a few of people in oppressed and surveilled groups got doxed to the authorities this way.
@ljrk @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith Ok but this is also true for most messengers and even worse for centralized messengers like signal because you can not change to trusted servers in signal 
And Delta Chat forces user verification (at least if you use a chatmail account) so I see no specific MitM vulnerability?
@ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith No, that's simply wrong. That data is *not* available to Signal and thus it's not worse because the server doesn't know such data in the first place.
MitM is possible because you have servers that relay messages. End-User verification is neat, but only prevents impersonation, not all MitM attacks.
@ljrk
@ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @waeiski @Mer__edith
For me if nobody works for them then this entire discussion is pure academic speculation. Because we can't be sure what code they are REALLY running. And this is a real problem with centralized platforms.
If I was head of FBI/NSA I would spread misinformation about lack of data from Signal like crazy. So people feel safe and trust Signal.
Of course above is also pure speculation. But plausibility is the same.
@as400 @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith No, it's not, because the data has to get on their servers in the first place. We know how the client works and we can see how a server would need to interact with them. And sure, we cannot know what code they're running but the key architecture of Signal /doesn't require you to trust them/. And that's the damn point.
Which is completely different to, say, DeltaChat, where a lot of trust is still on the server. And with any federated system, you need to effectively trust *all* those servers that are partaking in the federation. Which is honestly a lot worse.
And yes, this is baseless speculation in comparison to the *real* and *tangible* threats that all other messengers pose. Sure, you may distrust Signal for all those things, but then the only reasonable conclusion would be to not use any IM. And not to move from Signal to some federated pseudo-private bullshit of some crypto amateurs.
@ljrk
@ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @waeiski @Mer__edith
There is also another thing one needs to remember. These google binary gms blobs for notifications which are present in every Signal client. Doing god knows what.
I admit I might be biased. Because I don't trust anything made by tech bros and their mega corporations. So I'm trying to stay away from this crap. And feel much safer when using #deltachat with my own mail server for me and my wife. At least I control this "infrastructure" 😀
@as400 @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith These blobs are probably one of the most researched and reversed pieces of code there are.
Again, it's not about trusting. It's about building things that don't require trust. And your self-hosted mail server is comparatively easy to compromise, it stores compromising meta data – and worse, so does every server you are communicating with. So it doesn't matter at /all/ that you're self-hosting. Or does it matter if you have a local copy of a file, if you also upload it to GDrive?
@ell1e @as400 @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith Because the server stores metadata, you can see who sent what message when. This alone is dangerous enough for activists, but if only one of your communication partners' servers gets popped, this can be trivially correlated on your side and be used against you.
In addition, using PGP doesn't mean modern cryptographic best practices: Forward Secrecy, etc. – meaning a partial compromise has a far bigger fallout than necessary.
Everyone can get audits, even amateurs. But the audit doesn't mean a /thing/ if the threat model of your application excludes various attacks by design.
The thing is, DeltaChat is now best used with Chatmail, which give you as many anonymous mail accounts as you want, and that's the simplest installation path (just click on "Create a new profile" and you're done)
So this means an observer can know xcha398ohu@nine.testrun.org had a conversation with h98fah2nhrc@nine.testrun.org. You can't derive much from that. The whole point is to create new profile for specific actions, so only that data can be correlated, contrary to Signal where you have a single account so additional steps need to be taken in the code to prevent linkage.
Also, the default setting is to delete messages from the server as soon as it is downloaded so there's only a window during which information can be seen.
@ell1e @as400 @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @waeiski @Mer__edith
Signal knows the IP where a message comes from and the IP where a message goes to. The same as federated systems. The difference:
Signal stores this data for millions of users.
Federated Servers store this data for their users and communication partners.
Both Systems try to avoid metadata but this only work if the service is not infiltrated.
@ljrk @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith
Signal has all connection data and you have no way to verify what they are doing with it. So how can you be sure that they do not know who is writing whom?
And how can you MitM attack a verified end2end encryption? Breaking the encryption?
@ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith Because they don't have that data. That's not how signal chats work, the server is mostly a rendezvous server, with the actual message sender and recipient not available to the server.
This is key and different to Delta. Where you can use a passive MitM to get a lot of meta data – without breaking the encryption. Feds could literally get a copy of the encrypted messages without you noticing. While encrypted, this is terrible enough already, because recovering a static key is often very realistically possible for them. And since delta doesn't use forward secrecy, they can just store all those message and hit you over the head years later – and decrypt everything. It's fucked, absolutely dumb and irresponsible to use this for activist purposes. It's a fun toy project but has no space in infosec.
- Signal's server sees the recipient of every message.
- Signal's server does not see the sender of messages if sealed senders is used. However, sealed senders can't be used on the first message to a user. Also the server can always request the client to resend a message without sealed sender without a warning to or a confirmation from the user.
@ljrk @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith
If desired, it would be trivial for Signal's server / AWS to record:
- Every sender/recipient pair for messages that don't use sealed sender
- Disable sealed sender selectively for some messages (e.g. based on recipient, sender's IP address or just randomly distributed)
If we assume AWS to be malicious, they could already know at this point a) who ever chatted with whom on Signal and b) messaging frequency and timings of targeted chats.
Signal also uploads the phone numbers in the contact books of a user's phone. Yes that's optional, but a very large number of users has it enabled. And yes, Signal makes an attempt to be privacy-friendly here by using Intel SGX, which means *they* can't access it, but Intel (and thereby likely the US gov) can.
This feature even affects non-Signal users and users that disable it, as they likely still show up on contact books of others.
@pixelschubsi @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith Yes, an actively compromised Signal server does see message routes – however that's the same for XMPP. I was sloppy in describing the difference, but I honestly grew tired after such load of bullshit here.
A Signal server that's popped at one point in time does not have routing history and sealed sender then prevents future chats getting compromised. AFAIK clients would notice if the server doesn't allow sealed sender suddenly.
It's still suboptimal how Signal is positioned w.r.t. geo-political threats – but the named alternatives are so much worse in all these aspects, it makes me cry.
IIRC Signal uses bloom filters for the phone matching thing but I may be mistaken there.
But at worst govs know phone numbers you have (which is not enough for anything) or who you wrote with once (neither) while stopping you to be able to covertly continue messaging (attack against Availability). The latter thing is IMHO the worst of them, and Signal In-Availability is the main threat I'm seeing.
@ulfi @sbb @ljrk @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith
The core difficulty for most federated messaging systems is that there's a lot of information available without breaking encryption. XMPP and email (DeltaChat is built on the same core as email) have this problem. There are basically two cases:
- You're using the same mail server as a bunch of other people.
- You're using a self-hosted or otherwise small mail server.
In the second case, simply seeing a connection to that mail server gives a good indication of who someone is talking to. A passive adversary can monitor connections to that server and, even without breaking TLS, let alone the end-to-end encryption, can see who is talking to you.
In the first case, whoever operates the server (e.g. Google for gmail) can see the sender of every incoming message and the receiver of every outgoing message. Even if there's end-to-end encryption for the messages, they can build a connection graph.
If you want to use it for, say, organising a union, it doesn't actually matter what the message content is, the metadata is enough for retaliation.
For XMPP/email, a lot of the privacy guarantees are as strong as the least trustworthy server in a communication. If one person is using gmail in a group thread, Google will still be able to learn the identities of everyone in that chat. Again, this doesn't depend on breaking encryption and even if there is 100% secure end-to-end encryption, they can still learn a lot from the metadata. And, because of the federation, I have to trust my server and your server if we want to talk.
Signal has other problems, but avoids these. They've built the system so that they don't know this metadata. When you send a message with the sealed sender feature (on by default), you connect as an unauthenticated users and deliver a message to a mailbox. The receiver connects later and grabs the message and decrypts it. The server doesn't have an automatic way of determining the sender's identity (though they probably can if they correlate IPs - using Signal over TOR can mitigate this) and so can't build this graph of the people who are communicating.
For most attacks, the metadata is at least as interesting as the message content.
Signal isn't above criticism. I've written other complaints about them in the past. The reason I recommend Signal is that all of the problems I have with Signal can be fixed with incremental changes, whereas the problems with XMPP and COI can be fixed only by completely redesigning the protocol from the ground up in a way that would break all existing clients and servers.
lj·rk reshared this.
@ulfi @david_chisnall @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith No, this is very much a problem with federated servers: They are just like many centralized servers. Feds only need to break into one of the many to get the data, and that's easy enough. Especially since mail servers are terrible to secure and store too much dangerous data. They just multiply the problem.
This is totally fine and good for resilient systems, like the Fediverse. But it's the opposite of what you want for secure IM. There you want a centralized anonymous rendezvous server – or direct P2P. Everything else is gonna bite you in the ass.
@ljrk @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith
I don’t entirely agree here. Direct P2P has many of the same traffic analysis problems. You could build a better decentralised private IM thing, but it wouldn’t look like XMPP or COI. You’d want a shard the mailboxes across servers so each recipient would check a set of mailboxes and each sender would deliver to at least one (possibly more, for reliability). This would make it possible to add new relay nodes to the network without their knowing which users they were servicing.
The problems with this are more legal than technical. FreeNET had problems that your node might be distributing illegal material but you wouldn’t know. If your IM relay is being used to coordinate a terrorist arrack, that would be very unfortunate for you, even if you had no technical way of knowing it was happening. Signal is big enough that they can defined themselves in court over this kind of thing.
@ljrk @david_chisnall @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith
Signal know which device sends a message and which device receives a message. Moreover it can track traffic of all users. Feds do not need to access multiple servers (like in federated systems), they only need to access Signals servers to get this data of millions of users (perhaps they already did). Why is this secure?
But I agree that Delta Chat may not be the right choice for persons of very high risk (i am not sure). It is more a great every day messenger which gives people back the power over their communication.
For example, I got doxxed badly lately when Google Forms "helpfully" emailed me my registration details for a day seminar (had age, email, phone number, etc). Aargh. That's the sort of sloppy security vomit that Deltachat/autocrypt could have improved.
@zelphirkaltstahl #Signal is my goto IM app today (and by a long shot), in case anyone is in doubt of this. But I guess I have this nagging urge to have some sense of a 2nd best choice, were Signal to be blindsided by some unforeseen complication, knocking it out of its currently favored spot of "best choice, for privacy". Some second best choice which allowed federation.
@sbb @zelphirkaltstahl @ljrk SimpleX looks promising to me *if* there will be a fork. The current project leader seems to be a Trumpist, so that's something to watch out for - even if it doesn't compromise security right now.
I tried Cwtch - also promising but too hard to use for average people right now.
@sbb @scatty_hannah @zelphirkaltstahl No, I'm not making recommendations for cwtch or veilid. I'm just saying that these may become relevant at some point in the future.
And since were talking about privacy in this whole thread... any recommendation that are compromising on... privacy are kinda bad. You can totally argue that deltachat is a fun thing, but it's not the correct thing to recommend in this context.
but alas, the #iOS and #MacOS clients aren't the greatest at present
#Monal by @Monal is working at improving their UI and adding reactions and replies
New NLNet Funding
We are pleased to announce that we got selected in another funding round by the EU’s NGI via the NLnet Foundation NGI0 Entrust Fund to work on some important features in Monal. In short this consists of the following tasks (in no special order).Monal
I think when it comes to metadata, a distinction should be made between centralized and decentralized systems. In decentralized ones, metadata is less valuable because it is not generated centrally. The value of this data decreases further if accounts can be set up anonymously. In addition, it is very easy to change addresses in #deltachat. Much easier than phone numbers.
As far as encryption is concerned. Yes, #deltachat does not currently use PFS, apart from TLS 1.3. But PFS does not only have advantages. It requires a certain level of trust in the servers and makes it difficult to use many devices with a single account. Chatmail servers are "dumb". They forward messages and temporarily store metadata. As described above, this metadata is only problematic to a limited extent.
It is also not clear to me how a compromised #chatmail server could be used for a MITM attack in a verified chat.
In my opinion, the fact that the email system cannot be blocked is also an advantage of #deltachat for activists. Central messengers, no matter how secure they may be, generally have a harder time if a state decides to block them. In addition, email servers are inconspicuous in contrast to, for example, simpleX servers.
It's still the EU. It's an awfully small bottleneck of power over a very large amount of people. A most attractive target for those who would throw us in chains. I remember article 13.
But yes, those sound like very nice organizations, and I hope people can stop being monitored and exploited, the more the better.
CC: @waeiski@vis.social
One of those strange things that are evil when the Chinese do it, but strangely acceptable when the Americans do it. Like "freedom of navigation" naval exercises.
@waeiski
Ruth O’Day reshared this.
this is much, MUCH, *MUCH* bigger than that.
One, GDPR's not strict liability but not correcting a known violation IS.
Two, this also means corporate customers MUST abandon things like moving HR and internal resources to any cloud provider where US employees have access. (That's AWS, Azure, and OCI.)
Both of these are 100% NON-NEGOTIABLE. The only legal basis was under DPF and PCLOB, and those are dead.
USAns, too, would do well to get off US cloud infrastructure. It’s a huge job, but I’m making the switch to EU infrastructure.
Here’s a disturbing thought precipitated by Netflix’ Zero Day series. Can USA decrypt Signal, as suggested in first episode?
@debacle @ulfi @sbb @ljrk @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith
That doesn’t help if the threat model includes a malicious admin. Every XMPP message includes the sender and receiver unencrypted. If a million people are on that one server, it’s an easy place to build the connection network with just the unencrypted data sent over that server. With XMPP, the server operator sees (among other things):
- Every presence message.
- The roster for each user, including both everyone on your contact list and everyone who has you on their list.
- Every message that doesn’t use OMEMO.
- The sender and recipient of every chat that does use OMEMO.
- Most info-query things, including everything built on top of Personal Eventing over PuSub.
All of this passes through the server with no protection against a malicious admin because that was not part of the threat model for XMPP. If someone controls (or subpoenas, or issues a search warrant against) a large XMPP server then all of this information is available. In contrast, Signal is designed assuming that the server operator is malicious and minimises the information that they have access to.
@debacle @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith Except that Matrix has shittier crypto and the federated model just multiplies the problems you have with a central server. So keep on using it, Matrix is nice. Just don't depend on it for activist purposes.
But using a bootloader unlocked phone means that your data is instantly accessible for any cop who seizes your phone, so you're fucked that way anyhow.
@debacle @scatty_hannah @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith @moparisthebest Except this is such a bullshit take, because we have a *lot* of guard rails against their point.
And just dismissing soatoks credentials when he's fucking well established. Soatok simply analysed the crypto only. And you can say that for a full analysis, other things are relevant. And this isn't completely wrong. But dismissing Signal based on some theoretical claims that can be easily checked against is bullshit in every way.
@debacle @david_chisnall @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith It still sucks because your server is still very much a big attack surface. And "if they care about anonymity" is a strong statement, if we're talking about encrypted messaging. And everyone else is recommending self-hosting which is just the most deanonimized thing you can do.
And yes, the biggest risk of Signal is availability, I very much agree. But I'd rather have that than all my chat contacts basically leaked into the open by default.
@sbb @debacle @david_chisnall @ulfi @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith do not forget: real threat of getting the confidentiality broken because of federation vastly increasing your attack surface, no modern cryptographic best practices and a great position to carry out MitM attacks on vulnerable systems by adversaries.
Regarding "sovereignty": Why do you care about having your email inbox on your own systems, if your contacts may as well host theirs on AWS – including the mails you sent them? This is as sovereign and independent as keeping a local copy of your documents while also uploading them to Google Drive.
@debacle @david_chisnall @ulfi @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith As I said, in DE it doesn't /matter/ that it's know that you use Signal in general. This is literally the only thing your number is leaking.
Sure, you can use something hosted in the EU. And I'd very much understand that if relevant PII would be stored in the US. I'd rather have no data stored /at all/ than some data stored in the EU. And that is the comparison we should look at here.
The reasons why Signal requires phones are many. One is that phones are simply more secure than your average desktop system because the permission model is better and they have better boot security. I don't want cops to be able to read my messages when they seize my phone.
wiki.debian.org/Javascript/Nod…
@sbb @debacle @david_chisnall @ulfi @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith The Desktop client has only a very limited feature set. It's Node dependency is not a problem if you audit your ecosystem, no amount of Rust or whatever can shield you from that.
But whatever, I'm tired of this. You keep concern trolling and moving goalposts while simply ignoring all *actual* threats that have been *proven* to work, while not doing work on trying to understand how Signal actually works. Sure, keep your fake sovereignty of having de-anonymizing you through your own server, while uploading your sent mails to each of your contacts servers that may as well be everywhere, and keep cosplaying infosec with 20yo cryptographic standards.
@debacle @scatty_hannah @ljrk @sbb @chiraag @tortie @Mer__edith @moparisthebest
A blogpost of someone who is apparently not even capable to differentiate between a protocol and a messaging solution, but *opens* the post with calling other people's credentials in question? Man, that blogpost disintegrated fast upon reading...
If *that* is your standard response to those points, your position seems... unconvincing.
what we need is a big company making the switch and making blogposts on how they did it. Share the knowledge with the world since a lot of younger tech people never worked without Azure, AWS or Google Cloud (like me, having worked 10 years in tech, but never self hosting things).
This will show other companies the switch is possible.
In the UK
Finding UK alternatives for digital products and services, ranging from enterprise hosting and SaaS, to consumer services.Alternatives in UK
Hier vind je de vieste lucht van Nederland (en zo zit dat in jouw buurt)
pointer.kro-ncrv.nl/hier-vind-…
Op veel plaatsen in Nederland blijkt de lucht twee keer zo vies als gezondheidsadviezen toestaan. In dit artikel lees je waar je de vieste lucht van Nederland vindt.||Vrijwel heel Nederland heeft een slechte luchtkwaliteit, maar op sommige plekken ademen mensen wel erg veel ongezonde deeltjes in. Op veel plaatsen blijkt de lucht twee keer zo vies als gezondheidsadviezen toestaan, en in dit artikel lees je waar je de vieste lucht van Nederland vindt.
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Alle ambtenaren moeten e-mail Musk beantwoorden, anders dreigt ontslag | Buitenland | AD.nl
ad.nl/buitenland/alle-ambtenar…
Multimiljardair Elon Musk, adviseur van de Amerikaanse president Donald Trump, heeft zaterdag gezegd dat alle overheidsmedewerkers een verslag van hun werkweek moeten indienen. Zo niet, dan verliezen ze hun baan. Leidinggevenden bij het Amerikaanse ministerie van Justitie instrueren medewerkers om nog niet te reageren op de oproep van Musk.
#doge #musk #trump #oligarchie #fascisme #politiek #democratie
Konflikt im Kongo · Ausbeutung von Bodenschätzen und Wäldern befeuert Gewalt
regenwald.org/petitionen/1300/…
Die Gewalt in der Demokratischen Republik Kongo ist schockierend. Über die menschliche Katastrophe hinaus ist sie eine Katastrophe für die Natur, denn eine treibende Kraft ist die Ausbeutung von Bodenschätzen und Wäldern. Eine Schlüsselrolle spielt dabei Ruanda. Die EU muss daher die Partnerschaft über kritische Rohstoffe kündigen.
#petition #naturschutz #ecocide
Minister schoffeert Kamer en creëert woningnood voor vogels
vogelbescherming.nl/actueel/be…
Minister Mona Keijzer van Volkshuisvesting en Ruimtelijke Ordening lijkt een aangenomen Kamermotie naast zich neer te leggen. Zij wil geen standaard neststenen voor de huismus en gierzwaluw in woningen. Keijzer negeert daarmee het vogelvriendelijke plan om neststenen in te metselen bij nieuwbouw en grootschalige renovaties, dat op steun van de Tweede Kamer kon rekenen. Als Keijzer haar voorgenomen koers doorzet, gaat het op termijn waarschijnlijk om miljoenen minder neststenen voor soorten die op de Rode Lijst staan.
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AGITATED Trump LOSES IT at press conference gone wrong
youtube.com/watch?v=JTgCkbY_ED…
Original show date February 19, 2025
#davidpakmanshow #trump #doge #putin #zelensky #ukraine
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Rapport onthult noodzaak tot drastische krimp vliegverkeer
Gisteren verscheen een rapport van het Lab Verantwoorde Mobililiteit, een samenwerking van meerdere universiteiten, dat zeer kritisch is over de ontwikkeling van de Nederlandse luchtvaart.SchipholWatch
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in reply to Nico Geelen • •Trump HOLDS DISASTER Meeting as WAR PLANS LEAK
youtu.be/GFrBayL7CNs?si=23mJac…
Nico Geelen
in reply to Nico Geelen • •John Bolton reacts to news of Trump officials texting war plans to reporter
youtu.be/cbYsnwLvNcY?si=Oe__a3…
#CNN #News
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Nico Geelen
in reply to Nico Geelen • •PATHETIC Trump gets TERRIBLE NEWS and RUNS SCARED
Meidas Touch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump trying to turn the leak of sensitive classified information into a big joke and lying about it.
youtu.be/JPX7wkj5EK4?si=3sLrPo…
Nico Geelen
in reply to Nico Geelen • •Delen staatsgeheimen VS in appgroep Signal is 'enorm veiligheidsincident'
nos.nl/l/2561097
Nico Geelen
in reply to Nico Geelen • •Lek in groepschat van Trumps veiligheidsteam verbijstert Washington
nos.nl/l/2561034