Society is Limited by Wage Slavery
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Fuck, I have to change my opinion on leaf blowers.
[Read this before you think about doing something like this yourself! infosec.exchange/@0x00string/1… ]
{Attention, attention, attention. The following image is not real. It was created by the Mafia, who will kill us all, using their AI monsters. Despite this, these weapons of resistance were actually used in Portland in 2020. Use at your own risk.}
leaf blower person should operate behind a front line, behind a shield wall, behind a phalanx, because if the cops see that they will want to fuck that person up immediately, so there needs to be group solidarity and organization to protect them from that and prevent them from being an option target, their job should be to stay back and wait for lobs in, then assist whoever runs up to neutralize or yeet the grenade to help keep the gas away while they work, also to blow gas away from the front lines from behind it, the leaf blower guy should never be exposed they are a big prime target. there are lots of videos from HK protests where this and other good anti gas tactics were deployed and they should be remembered and diffused again!
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In agriculture we use them to blow dust from machines.
But against ICE is way better!
axebos reshared this.
I don't think you're getting why people are upset about this. I believed you. I believed the picture. Now I'm skeptical about leaf blower's abilities to resist tear gas - it's an AI picture after all, might as well be a unicorn.
you say "well it really happened in Portland, so it don't matter" - well, share an actual documented case then!
until you do, you're doing a disservice to resistance.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=yEqRIkVE…
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.Guardian News (YouTube)
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axebos, EbruKash, Weltzeitgeist, Peter, Su_G, Frans Super 🇺🇦🇵🇸🍋 FKNZS🔻, Heidi 🇳🇱🇪🇺 and Ko van Huissteden reshared this.
Yeah. I used to follow on fbk, IMO person has some problems with their love for shitposting over accurate info combined with trying to police their idea of the exact way all resistance should be.
Cool concept, look at the actual video down this thread; the fake AI image is useless beyond getting attention at best.
I use this workshop blower on rooftops and other hard to access areas, light very compact about double the size of a power drill, the black part on the front is removable (don't want to be looking like a gun) get about 20mins run time from 3mah battery. Enough power to blow gas or spray
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Hypolite Petovan likes this.
Please use electric leaf blowers, bring extra batteries.
Ha!
Bad news everyone.
@lunaisadeer many people have already commented on it, also myself. It's unfortunately AI but I shared it because I liked the message.
And leaf blowers WERE used in Portland 2020. There is also a video of it in the thread.
Su_G reshared this.
leberschnitzel reshared this.
@seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma Please read all the other comments and watch the video of what happened in Portland in 2020.
Thank you for your considerations.
@cryptica @wackJackle @sennoma OP, I understand you feel strongly about the resistance; we all do. Sharing this image seems like an efficient way to spread the message, but it comes at the cost of your credibility. Our word is more important than ever. Don’t compromise it with mistruths, not even little teeny ones. This is not a photograph from 2020. It isn’t real. It may visually represent resistance, but that doesn’t justify promoting it as real. You are putting comrades in danger. Today you feel justified in sharing this; what will you justify tomorrow? On this trajectory, muting you would be protective. Please reconsider.
Salva reshared this.
@byrnensorg Of course, that's just a post that went viral. There is a video in the thread on how they used it in Portland.
Everybody should always calculate what risk they are comfortable to take. That's a given.
Don't put this burden on me.
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Su_G reshared this.
@seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma You haven't made any 'maturely' comment so why should I bother?
You don't like AI, that's fine. Me, too. So what?
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@seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma If, instead of an AI image, it had been a real drawing of someone using a leaf blower against the authorities, would you have made the same arguments?
Think about that instead of trying to accuse me of something here.
@Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma Yes, why should you bother to receive feedback with curiosity & mutual respect? Why indeed?
You ask “So what?” Here is my response:
Sharing this image seems like an efficient way to spread the message, but it comes at the cost of your credibility. Our word is more important than ever. Don’t compromise it with mistruths, not even little teeny ones. This is not a photograph from 2020. It isn’t real. It may visually represent resistance, but that doesn’t justify promoting it as real. You are putting comrades in danger.
'You are putting comrades in danger.'
I don't and it's laughable that this is your argument. And I agree that this is your only argument.
My credibilty is fine because I answered many people that the image is AI in this thread already. I didn't create it, I just made a funny comment on it and shared it.
There is a video of how to use leaf blowers in the thread for every comrade to see.
M18™ Compact Blower (Bare Tool) | Milwaukee Tool
MILWAUKEE® M18™ Compact Blower delivers the fastest jobsite cleanup. Offers a best in class power to size ratio and comes with a universal inflator/deflatorMilwaukee Tool
@0x00string Thank you for real information. I didn't want to get 'viral' with this post but that's what happened.
Comrades, LISTEN TO THIS POST!
Su_G reshared this.
That isn't MY AI generated 'misinformation'. I just quoted it. You're barking up the wrong tree.
I've linked the real information on how to act in the original post.
So what's your fucking problem?
(and I have admitted that the picture is AI; that the usage of leaf blowers was real in Portland 2020 and there is a video of it in the comments.)
@seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma
you, Weltzeitgeit, are located where on this planet exactly? Anywhere near ICE protests? If not, what makes you think you can assess the risks for people out there right now, by „just making a funny comment“ with your AI generated misinformation?
Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™ reshared this.
@seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma
You didn’t answer my question.
And after all the comments you got on posting AI slop as an eye-catcher, you still don’t see it fit to edit your original post to add that it’s AI generated slop.
@nellie_m @seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma I don't have to. That's always the responsibility of the people involved. Why do I have to explain this? That's the most obvious argument everybody has to live by.
I just made a comment on the internet with no instruction to do anything at all.
You're making up a straw man and you're argueing against it but it has nothgin to do with my post or with me.
@nellie_m @seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma And yes, it's an AI picture. Everybody can scroll down to see me admitting to it.
I don't put it in the original post because of people like you. You don't think about this real method, how it was used or how it can be used.
You just don't like AI and I get it, because I also don't like AI but the message can be more important.
Your moral no-AI essentialism doesn't bother me. I seriously don't fucking care.
Have a nice day!
You 2 make a good team - disseminating ideas, motivation, & excellent info on what works, how to do it & stay safe. 👍 Also showing learning & adaptability. Kudos! I learned much & am motivated. Work together & stay safe above all. 🙂
Weltzeitgeist reshared this.
did not realize this is AI generated. Unboosted. I was there in Portland in 2020. Leaf blower dads directly behind me as all the moms stood frontline.
Sad you have to cheapen it with slop.
Shameful.
@wackJackle@norden.social this is ai...
All ai gets blocked, especially thirsty clickbait
The people that deserve attention are the ones trying to do something different from instagram
@samueljohn Thank you. I've tried my best to correct the information in the thread but people are still mad and saying my parents made an asshole with no moral judghement. It's insane.
There is a video of the real usage of it in the thread and I've linked to the best information for someone who wants to use this. (but I've got also blocked by this user for some reason)
@nellie_m @seekingfreedom @Infrogmation @cryptica @sennoma
mas.to/@Gustodon/1159485782491…
You post an image you think is authentic.It turns out to be generated.
You delete the post.
RE: norden.social/@wackJackle/1159…
Are you allowed to wear them openly?
Asking for a friend.
Fuck, I have to change my opinion on leaf blowers.
[Read this before you think about doing something like this yourself! infosec.exchange/@0x00string/1… ]{Attention, attention, attention. The following image is not real. It was created by the Mafia, who will kill us all, using their AI monsters. Despite this, these weapons of resistance were actually used in Portland in 2020. Use at your own risk.}
@mad All your questions are answered in the thread but people are argueing and blocking me for quoting an AI picture.
That was a really good lesson for me. I don't fucking care anymore. Have fun, enjoy your life, enjoy the technofascist governments before it all comes down.
Doom is the answer; leftists are as stupid as anyone else.
For some reason you think that the world will be a better place if you bark at people online who quoted(!) an image of someone who used AI.
The level of insanity of you people is really something, I have to admit.
I know this one could approximately do this amazon.com/EGO-Power-LB7650-Va…
but I think the "photo" is a bit exaggerating though so don't rely on it and add a proper mask too
wow, you're a fucking asshole.
imagine using the slop generator that burns our planet and puts money in the pockets of the techbro elite that's ruining society and then getting mad because people call you out on it
too bad your parents didn't teach you to have a moral backbone after they sprayed water on each other and honked their own noses to communicate that they wanted to make an insufferable clown baby together
This photo is *no* different than the ones the White House releases of detainees appearing to be crying. They'd claim, as you did, that the truth of the image doesn't matter as much as the meaning.
Das wussten schon die Teilnehmer des Bürgerspaziergangs zur Bastille damals.
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It's about time the Mafia did something against the Pug Uglies. 👍
(While the police-security-military defence companies can just record their antics and put in their promotional vids for trade shows and share-holder gatherings -- those who are opposed to them do not have those resources , so, this is, IMHO, actually appropriate use of the enemy's machinery against them.)
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@miguelpergamon Thank you for this comment. That's my point I tried to argue in the thread.
(There is also a video of the real usage of this in the thread; and I've linked to the post with the most useful information [and still got blocked from this user])
You go online, you don't like AI, which is fine, and you're making up lies (spreading misinformation) & (make ai propaganda images cool) to comment on someon else you have no fucking clue about besides what I quoted.
Why don't you feel ashamed of yourself? Do you really think that you make the world a better place with your actions? Srsly? You really think you're making the world a better place barking at me, don't you?
It's interessting to observe it. Not gonna lie. 😀

Squirrelsdrivemenuts
in reply to Five • • •SubArcticTundra
in reply to Squirrelsdrivemenuts • • •yyprum
in reply to Squirrelsdrivemenuts • • •Digit
in reply to Squirrelsdrivemenuts • • •I hear there's 80% unemployment for we Autistics.
So much for the idea that the Nazis tried to make more autistic people because we're better workers.
Maybe in a different world, accepting of our different ways outside a very narrow conformity, it could be so. Irony. Heh.
So far, since self diagnosis, and formal diagnosis, I've mostly had abuse, rather than support. This functioning country stuff sounds very appealing.
9point6
in reply to Five • • •I would literally be the jack of all trades
I'd happily do something completely different every couple of weeks
Not very practical with a 3 month notice period IRL
.... And yeah the whole needing to work to not die thing
themeatbridge
in reply to 9point6 • • •PunnyName
in reply to themeatbridge • • •Tyrq
in reply to 9point6 • • •alk
in reply to Tyrq • • •Tyrq
in reply to alk • • •CannonFodder
in reply to Tyrq • • •UniversalBasicJustice
in reply to CannonFodder • • •Grail
in reply to alk • • •Damage
in reply to alk • • •Medic8teMe
in reply to 9point6 • • •SubArcticTundra
in reply to Medic8teMe • • •kindernacht
in reply to Medic8teMe • • •Damage
in reply to Medic8teMe • • •RumorsOfLove
in reply to Five • • •Plumbing is an available job. Capitalism is literally the social infrastructure that allows it.
(Not saying that things couldnt be better.)
themeatbridge
in reply to RumorsOfLove • • •Plumbing would still be a job without capitalism. Actually, come to think about it, plumbing is just about the least capitalist job there is. Most plumbers are small businesses owned by the laborers. Plumbing products are all mass produced, but the actual plumber is valued for their skills, not because they have the capital to corner a market. Plumbers in areas where corporate conglomerates are common are usually protected by unions, too.
If you want a job that wouldn't exist without capitalism, the answer is farmer. Sure, farmers are the backbone of any society, but farmers work the land, and the land has a lot of conditions. But you can buy avocados in Michigan in January, because someone realized that they can make money shipping avocados from warmer climates year round. It's terrible for the land, terrible for the environment, and terrible for local farmers who cannot compete in the race to the bottom, but the capitalist cares not for these things. Only profit nourishes the soul of the corporation.
queermunist she/her
in reply to RumorsOfLove • • •__反いじめ戦隊
in reply to RumorsOfLove • • •Corrected your illiteracy.
UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Five • • •Idk, man. This reads like something I'd get from a Homeschool Mom who thinks her kids are being held back by their schools' demand to learn advanced literacy and mathematics and physical sciences, instead of numerology and automatic writing. You do, in fact, want people to work outside their comfort zone. Especially when they're young and everything is outside their comfort zone.
Like, you don't actually want a guy with an obsessive desire to fix your plumbing to start work on something they're going to forget about in an hour after they fixate on something new. This is how you get half the plumbing in the neighborhood disassembled while the guy doing the work has gone into a shame spiral and won't leave the house.
You can argue about the merits of the Apprentice / Journeyman / Master system, but every project really does need a certain level of experienced skill involved. Working with a collection of amateur hobbyists gets you predictably amateur results. That's before you even get into what happens when your enthusiast plumber declares a jihad on im
... Show more...Idk, man. This reads like something I'd get from a Homeschool Mom who thinks her kids are being held back by their schools' demand to learn advanced literacy and mathematics and physical sciences, instead of numerology and automatic writing. You do, in fact, want people to work outside their comfort zone. Especially when they're young and everything is outside their comfort zone.
Like, you don't actually want a guy with an obsessive desire to fix your plumbing to start work on something they're going to forget about in an hour after they fixate on something new. This is how you get half the plumbing in the neighborhood disassembled while the guy doing the work has gone into a shame spiral and won't leave the house.
You can argue about the merits of the Apprentice / Journeyman / Master system, but every project really does need a certain level of experienced skill involved. Working with a collection of amateur hobbyists gets you predictably amateur results. That's before you even get into what happens when your enthusiast plumber declares a jihad on imperial units and tries to covert half the pipes on the block to metric measures.
chicken
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •I've done a fair bit of DIY stuff in my home including various plumbing projects and it's all been doable with just reading manuals, watching videos and spending time thinking things through. That said blow torches scare me and I did everything with pipe cutters and sharkbite connectors and such, but it works, and I did what I could to make sure it was done well/correct because I need my plumbing to work.
My experience with commercial plumbers, mostly from when I was renting, is overall pretty bad and that they are mostly unwilling to think at all beyond the immediate billable job. There was a whole ordeal where water backing up from the drain kept flooding one of the rooms in my apartment from under the walls, and while fortunately my landlord was honest enough to call plumbers when this happened, just about every time they would use a drain snake, claim the problem was fixed without really checking, and then it would just happen again later. It ultimately turned out to be a problem with the pipes not being connected to the sewer where they met the street, and was finally f
... Show more...I've done a fair bit of DIY stuff in my home including various plumbing projects and it's all been doable with just reading manuals, watching videos and spending time thinking things through. That said blow torches scare me and I did everything with pipe cutters and sharkbite connectors and such, but it works, and I did what I could to make sure it was done well/correct because I need my plumbing to work.
My experience with commercial plumbers, mostly from when I was renting, is overall pretty bad and that they are mostly unwilling to think at all beyond the immediate billable job. There was a whole ordeal where water backing up from the drain kept flooding one of the rooms in my apartment from under the walls, and while fortunately my landlord was honest enough to call plumbers when this happened, just about every time they would use a drain snake, claim the problem was fixed without really checking, and then it would just happen again later. It ultimately turned out to be a problem with the pipes not being connected to the sewer where they met the street, and was finally fixed with city involvement, but it took a hell of a lot of advocating for myself and pushing back on bullshit explanations to get to the point where the real problem was even identified or acknowledged.
I am 100% convinced that just about any anarchist system of plumbing would be a significant improvement, though maybe the plan described in the OP image should be adjusted a bit away from hobbyist plumbers going around taking responsibility for the critical systems in other people's homes and towards a network of free expert advice, guidance, and tools to help people maintain their own living spaces, which they will naturally understand and care about on a level people who don't live there won't.
Zink
in reply to chicken • • •Ah, you nailed the secret in the first sentence!
That is one huge advantage I bet you'd see in this anarchist plumbing system. The people would be self-selected to actually care about the thing they're doing.
That doesn't mean they're all going to be rational analytical thinkers tackling your problem from first principles, but it would be a big step up from how we do it now.
UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to chicken • • •No doubt there's some mediocre professionals. But as a home owner myself the last twelve years, I've found at least as many professionals who were worth their weight. Meanwhile, the time I spend on YouTube DIY videos plus the actual home repairs rarely feels worth the effort.
I had to redo the master bath a few years back and I can't even dream of doing that alone, much less with my own inexperience.
Alcoholicorn
in reply to chicken • • •Aljernon
in reply to Alcoholicorn • • •Alcoholicorn
in reply to Aljernon • • •Aljernon
in reply to Alcoholicorn • • •Grail
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Grail • • •We need organization, certification, and oversight of projects.
A random assortment of freelance hobbyists is very different than a horizontally organized Plumber's union.
Xerxos
in reply to Five • • •We need UBI (Universal Basic Income). People should have the choice to work, if they want more money or love their job. Not being forced: a choice.
If someone wants to follow a path that is not financial viable - be it art or just a hobby - that should be possible, too.
Life would become better for nearly everyone. Art would get a new golden age, people would no longer fear financial ruin, happiness and personal fulfillment all around.
Also paying people starvation wages or treating them badly would no longer work. Employees would have to be treated well or they would simply leave. Great wages and good conditions more or less guaranteed. People could support a big family and a nice house on a single wage again.
The only persons not happy would be the ultra rich, the exploiter, the CEOs. Because this would only work if everyone pays their due and the 1% no longer hoard the wealth.
I think this could create the best possible future, an utopia - if only our politicians were not bought and paid for. But sadly they are - and wealth only goes towards the ri
... Show more...We need UBI (Universal Basic Income). People should have the choice to work, if they want more money or love their job. Not being forced: a choice.
If someone wants to follow a path that is not financial viable - be it art or just a hobby - that should be possible, too.
Life would become better for nearly everyone. Art would get a new golden age, people would no longer fear financial ruin, happiness and personal fulfillment all around.
Also paying people starvation wages or treating them badly would no longer work. Employees would have to be treated well or they would simply leave. Great wages and good conditions more or less guaranteed. People could support a big family and a nice house on a single wage again.
The only persons not happy would be the ultra rich, the exploiter, the CEOs. Because this would only work if everyone pays their due and the 1% no longer hoard the wealth.
I think this could create the best possible future, an utopia - if only our politicians were not bought and paid for. But sadly they are - and wealth only goes towards the rich, while we get poorer every generation.
I hope I live to see the day when the people notice that the rich rigged the game and react accordingly.
brownsugga
in reply to Xerxos • • •Zink
in reply to brownsugga • • •Ohmmy
in reply to Zink • • •They don't just want to look down on someone, they're so propagandized to by the ultra wealthy they do it for free.
Ultimately getting people to vote against their best interest is quite common, maybe even more common that voting in their best interest because of all the compromise with capitalists stuff. Wanting to address affordability but not addressing capitalism is like bargaining with a virus.
applebusch
in reply to Xerxos • • •hector
in reply to applebusch • • •lumpenproletariat
in reply to Xerxos • • •UBI is not the solution, ending the capitalist system is.
All UBI does is lessen the suffering slightly, why not just directly meet people’s needs without the middleman.
hector
in reply to lumpenproletariat • • •Ubi would never happen, and if it did they would constantly remove people from the roles until it was a subsidy to their supporters, a patronage.
Looking at medicaid and food assistance, I do not see how anyone could think it would not be ratfucked if it got through in the first place.
Xerxos
in reply to lumpenproletariat • • •UBI is not the solution, but a great first step towards a better system.
To make it work well, you need strong regulations on a lot of systems: banks, utilities, corporations.
At some point it will be easier to just give the state control of everything concerning basic needs. Then to control institutions that 'fight back' the most against regulations, like banks and mega corporations.
You see where this might lead?
It's a slow way towards a better economic system without the need for a revolution.
lumpenproletariat
in reply to Xerxos • • •If we got UBI today, the majority of people would stop pushing for the better system and would be content with "better than they had".
Effectively setting back liberation by centuries and perpetuating suffering, meanwhile it would always be a sword of damocles dangling above the peoples head with fear of it being withdrawn or diminished by future conservative governments at any minutes notice.
And frankly arguing for it is a terrible idea on principle, it's like haggling and starting from the middle instead of the lowest.
Commiunism
in reply to Xerxos • • •We've had 100 years of unopposed reformism, and look where we are 🥀
The state isn't some friend that exists for the public good, it literally dances to bourgeois private interests by design. There will be no UBI or better healthcare or whatever unless material conditions and bourgeois interests necessitate it (to prevent a proletariat revolution is one example). There's a reason why it's called a dictatorship of the bourgeois.
rako
in reply to Xerxos • • •Your analysis is too light. The state isn't some magical benevolent entity which is somehow "on the wrong path". The state is an instrument of domination driven by the dominating class: the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie is against everything you cited. It will not slowly act against its own interest, willingly lose power and dominance. It will always fight for, at the minimum, keeping power.
That is why historically the only way to have changes that contradict the dominating entity's interest is for the dominated entity to band together. It's the only way anything ever changes: the balance of forces moves in the interest of the dominated. Women didn't earn the right to vote because men were nice, but because women fought for it. Social progress never happens because the bourgeoisie is nice (that's a very nice propaganda trick) but because the bourgeoisie has to compromise.
Waiting/wishing/hoping for the state to be nice, which is what asking for ubi is, and the "revolution without violence" the socdem has pushed about, never works. As long as the people who are legitima
... Show more...Your analysis is too light. The state isn't some magical benevolent entity which is somehow "on the wrong path". The state is an instrument of domination driven by the dominating class: the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie is against everything you cited. It will not slowly act against its own interest, willingly lose power and dominance. It will always fight for, at the minimum, keeping power.
That is why historically the only way to have changes that contradict the dominating entity's interest is for the dominated entity to band together. It's the only way anything ever changes: the balance of forces moves in the interest of the dominated. Women didn't earn the right to vote because men were nice, but because women fought for it. Social progress never happens because the bourgeoisie is nice (that's a very nice propaganda trick) but because the bourgeoisie has to compromise.
Waiting/wishing/hoping for the state to be nice, which is what asking for ubi is, and the "revolution without violence" the socdem has pushed about, never works. As long as the people who are legitimate are dominated, it will not happen.
Let's stop dreaming in idealistic what-ifs and act in materialist actions. The material conditions define our existence. Let's set our material conditions of existence, without asking nicely, and the balance of power will force the dominating power to compromise.
Jack_Burton
in reply to lumpenproletariat • • •quediuspayu
in reply to Xerxos • • •I would implement an Universal Wage Cap, and Universal Basic Products and Services.
The first doesn't allow to earn above certain point, everything beyond that gets taxed.
The second one ensures that people don't need to pay for their most basic needs.
SabinStargem
in reply to quediuspayu • • •I have been workshopping a similar concept, though it goes a bit further. Income is ranked - the lowest rank being UBI. When you are being educated or hold a job, your UBI income is replaced with a greater amount of money. Education has sub-ranks based on your grades, to help encourage people to take a job once they have acquired the credentials to do so. Jobs come as five ranks, based on the Effort, Risk, and Knowledge they require. $10k for UBI. $10k to $20k for education. $40k a year for the lowest jobs, such as clerks or waiters. $60k for more strenuous or educated tasks, such as warehouse workers, police, or librarians. $80k for firemen, and $100k for the last rank. Astronauts are an example of the highest grade.
Leadership roles don't automatically receive a pay grade. Workers have to vote for the income of leadership, which is taken from the company after normal employees are paid. Earning retirement pay is 1:1, with each day worked, earning a day of retirement income. As AI automation becomes more common, displaced workers can enter a lotto to receive an job-based in
... Show more...I have been workshopping a similar concept, though it goes a bit further. Income is ranked - the lowest rank being UBI. When you are being educated or hold a job, your UBI income is replaced with a greater amount of money. Education has sub-ranks based on your grades, to help encourage people to take a job once they have acquired the credentials to do so. Jobs come as five ranks, based on the Effort, Risk, and Knowledge they require. $10k for UBI. $10k to $20k for education. $40k a year for the lowest jobs, such as clerks or waiters. $60k for more strenuous or educated tasks, such as warehouse workers, police, or librarians. $80k for firemen, and $100k for the last rank. Astronauts are an example of the highest grade.
Leadership roles don't automatically receive a pay grade. Workers have to vote for the income of leadership, which is taken from the company after normal employees are paid. Earning retirement pay is 1:1, with each day worked, earning a day of retirement income. As AI automation becomes more common, displaced workers can enter a lotto to receive an job-based income. Companies using AI have to pay into the lotto, because they have wealth caps based on the amount of jobs they are paying for. So a company with lots of employees or job sponsorships has a larger amount of money it can contain. Sponsored jobs can vote on leadership pay and actions, just like employees.
There is a bunch of other details, but the intent is to create a system of absolute limits on wealth and income from all sources. This helps limits corruption and excessive wealth, plus it fights inflation because everything's cost will be based on how much income society receives.
quediuspayu
in reply to SabinStargem • • •That still uses money as incentive.
I would give as incentive more free time.
I also like the idea of reducing as much as possible the need for having to pay for basic stuff, so instead a basic income I would guarantee basic housing, food, electricity, etc. for free and use wages to get those improved however you want.
The first one creates job availability and the second one makes them less like a need.
I would try to avoid as much as possible having higher wage caps, instead I think it would be better to give better perks that give the opportunity to save money.
It's very hard for me to express myself, specially in another language.
SabinStargem
in reply to quediuspayu • • •That is fine about the expression. Time and practice will improve it.
Anyhow, I think free time comes from limiting the amount of hours people can work each week, and making it so that doing more time doesn't make more money. Income is given as a lump sum each month, and that a company is obligated to pay a month's income if someone is fired. This makes it so that companies genuinely choose who works for them and incentivizes the retention of trained workers, all the while emphasizing genuine efficiency at the workplace.
Also, naturalization should be a nearly automatic process, with acceptance of the naturalization by the worker being the part with friction.
Anyhow, I will toss out my slide deck. I built it several months ago to explain my economic concepts.
Commiunism
in reply to Xerxos • • •You support UBI because it would create an utopia
I support UBI because it would literally destroy the economy
We are not the same
Honytawk
in reply to Commiunism • • •It wouldn't destroy the economy, just the shareholders profit.
And that is the risk they signed up for.
Commiunism
in reply to Honytawk • • •It wouldn't decrease profits in any way, in fact it'd bolster them temporarily given how everyone has more money to spend. Companies will respond in turn to bump up their prices, negating any kind of increase in purchasing power (what happens every time minimum wages get increased), and once everything catches up and it becomes the new "normal", profit rates will continue to drop as they always have.
Meanwhile the states will bleed money paying everyone UBI and go in debt even faster which would result in austerity, abolishment of UBI, or more excuses to cut other welfare programs. There's a reason why there are pretty much no welfare states anymore.
minorkeys
in reply to Five • • •Grail
in reply to minorkeys • • •MeatPilot
in reply to Five • • •Japan sort of has that thing going.
Ningen Kokuhō or Living National Treasures get paid by the government just to keep doing something culturally significant. Like making clay pots or arrows using traditional techniques. Preserving Kabuki or performing arts.
Honestly it's amazing to recognize the significance oby supporting masters of certain crafts. Otherwise some might not find it financially sustainable and cut corners, well this allows them to keep traditions and preserve valuable techniques.
Living National Treasure (Japan) - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Grail
in reply to MeatPilot • • •hector
in reply to Grail • • •ruplicant
in reply to Grail • • •__反いじめ戦隊
in reply to Five • • •phanto
in reply to Five • • •BanMe
in reply to phanto • • •ElectricAirship
in reply to phanto • • •Grail
in reply to phanto • • •phanto
in reply to Grail • • •Grail
in reply to phanto • • •Grail
in reply to Five • • •Agent641
in reply to Grail • • •People who create and upload torrents
I mean sure it's illegal, but it's a hell of a lot of unpaid work for an uncaring and often ungrateful consumers. You have to rip the Blu-ray, compress it to a standardized size, package it with file lists in some cases, put the appropriate metadata in the torrent and filename, then seed it for years at great personal risk.
I know much of that can be automated, but still...
insomniac199
in reply to Five • • •Jankatarch
in reply to Five • • •Sounds a bit naive on paper.
But thinking about it, I want to fact-check wikipedia sources for a living. Also make tools to automate shit. Also I fucking love assembling and fixing furniture so I could do that too.
No need to even pay. As long as I am not homeless or starving to death I would be happy and fulfilled doing those kind of work.
Tho I do think doctors and teachers etc should still make some extra money for the years of expertise before even starting the work.
like this
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WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to Jankatarch • • •Parafaragaramus
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • •ObliviousEnlightenment
in reply to Jankatarch • • •like this
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Crackhappy
in reply to Jankatarch • • •Random Dent
in reply to Jankatarch • • •It's one of those things I'd love to see done as an experiment as long as it could be done ethically. Build a little town somewhere and have no prescribed jobs, just let everyone do what they want and see how it pans out.
Another one I'd like to see is to have two areas as identical as possible - same geography, climate, resources etc. and populate one fully with left-wing people and one with right-wing people and see which one does better. Unfetterd Socialist Utopia vs Unrestricted Ayn Rand Libertarian Boot-strappery or whatever. Settle it once and for all lol.
digital_alchemist
in reply to Random Dent • • •I believe you've got a fantastic idea here, not only to see how this one idea pans out, but to learn how we might build a better society. There's little reason we couldn't simultaneously have multiple test centres, each using a different system. Scientific method 101.
China famously began its modern transformation in the 80s by creating Special Economic Zones. These were cities where many of the economic rules for the rest of the country wouldn't apply, and where new theories could be tested. There's no need to agree with the goals China was pursuing, and for-better-or-for-worse have subsequently achieved, to acknowledge the method is brutally effective.
quips
in reply to Five • • •like this
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WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to quips • • •like this
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quips
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • •ProdigalFrog
in reply to quips • • •quips
in reply to ProdigalFrog • • •Random Dent
in reply to ProdigalFrog • • •Her short story "The Day Before The Revolution" is a good add-on to this too, and the preface is interesting IMO.
day.html
www.d.umn.eduwhoisearth
in reply to quips • • •Yup but that would require the true ruling class to see their blood spilled to get it. Progressive people have tried and continue to try to push UBI throughout the world. In Canada alone we have had recent experiences both on the Federal and Provincial level. They intentionally get hamstrung or directly shut down to poison any potential results.
The longer we go without UBI the worse it's going to get. Christ look at youth unemployment globally let alone the general struggles youth are dealing with that didn't exist even 20 years ago. We need UBI yesterday but we are still struggling to get people to even entertain the concept of it.
Jack_Burton
in reply to whoisearth • • •We've got a new UBI pilot program starting this year! I have no doubt it'll get set up for failure just like last time, but it's fun to think about a world that's not run by sociopaths. Of course, even if it does go well it'll be useless without crippling Capitalism first to prevent companies from just raising prices and funneling the individual UBI money into shareholder pockets.
Random Dent
in reply to Jack_Burton • • •Jack_Burton
in reply to Random Dent • • •Sludgeyy
in reply to quips • • •We should push for a UBMI
Universal Bare Minimum Income
"Basic" is debatable
Hard to argue everyone needs the bare minimum
Maybe they aren't going to be able to buy their art supplies at first. But it's definitely a start.
Wonderful thing about art is that multiple people can share the same crayon box
Ach
in reply to Five • • •Commiunism
in reply to Five • • •deifyed
in reply to Commiunism • • •like this
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Commiunism
in reply to deifyed • • •No, both ways are completely shit - monetizing a hobby or a hyperfixation is the fastest way for it to burn out and make one hate it, speaking from experience. Companies as of "late" have been using this horseshit to get more out of young and impressionable people as well, by working them to the bone and "giving them purpose", making them burn out then throwing them away for the new generation.
That's not to mention the other issues if it worked as "intended" without burnout, such as increased competition depressing wages and creating more poverty since that's how capitalist mode of production works. The only way out is to abolish the present state of things, including wage labor so we make things for their use value, not profit.
deifyed
in reply to Commiunism • • •Commiunism
in reply to deifyed • • •Aljernon
in reply to Commiunism • • •Commiunism
in reply to Aljernon • • •OddMinus1
in reply to Five • • •like this
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Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to OddMinus1 • • •I would be taking care of other people's gardens. I'd encourage them to let me build habitats for native wildlife. And doing work outside is just so relaxing.
And I would build an alarm clock app, that lets you set the alarm according to the weather. It would allow you to set up alarms for snow and black ice. That way you can clear your section of sidewalk and use alternative transportation options to get to work.
Or maybe I'd open a repair-shop. One that also allows people to do the work themselves with tools and instruction.
Jack_Burton
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •I would use the hell out of this. I've been focusing on repairing over buying lately and it's not only cheaper (obviously), but it's really rewarding. Some plumbing, sewing to repair clothes, computer repair, I've come to realise that many things are easier to repair than you'd think and the biggest hurdle is just being shown how. For those of us who learn best by doing and being shown in person (not video) this would be amazing.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to Jack_Burton • • •Exactly. I don't even think that service could be offered any cheaper than having an employee do the repair.
But it's fun. And it gives people insight into repairability, they can use for their next purchase.
Cruel
in reply to Five • • •Aljernon
in reply to Cruel • • •Tinidril
in reply to Aljernon • • •I_am_10_squirrels
in reply to Tinidril • • •With a cloth, right?
Right?
Aljernon
in reply to Tinidril • • •Random Dent
in reply to Aljernon • • •Ookami38
in reply to Cruel • • •I completely disagree. I think most people want to do something, but they don't have the means and opportunity to do a thing that fulfills them. I fucking HATE having a job. Coming to a place every day to do the same thing, it kills my motivation to do ANYTHING. The only reason I have one is to eat and to do the things I WANT to do. Usually pretty productive things, such as gardening, programming, repairs.
Those are all productive things. Things I COULD earn money for, but then they become work. I have to do them to survive, and so I no longer find the joy in doing them. If I could do them and not have to worry about bills being paid, I would by all accounts be a more productive member of society.
I don't think people are all that fundamentally different. We have some differences in preference, but when you get down to the basics the majority of people are pretty similar. Some will fall through the cracks or abuse the system, but by and large no one WANTS to be useless. That's a learned trait.
RamenJunkie
in reply to Ookami38 • • •People like the person you reply to probably also don't think "sitting on your ass making art while just existing on the subsidy" isn't "productive enough" or some shit either.
Without realizing just how much of our current working society is built on completely pointless busy work nonsense. But its in an office and done in excel so its "Work" and its "productive" because it makes some rich asshole at the top richer.
If AI is doing one positive thing, its really really showing this out for the reality it is, because AI is pretty good at turning pointless data into equally pointless reports.
And I agree with you, people WANT to do things. I think even those dude who "don't want to bathe" want to do things yoo, they just may not be "productive" things, or maybe they don't want to bathe because they see the banality of everything we do in the world so why bother.
Ookami38
in reply to RamenJunkie • • •Galactose
in reply to Cruel • • •FlyingCircus
in reply to Cruel • • •Swedneck
in reply to Cruel • • •you do realize that many of the most vital and least pleasant jobs are only performed because people have immense amounts of empathy or inherently want to do them, right?
Or do you think nurses have good wages and working conditions? lmfao
Cruel
in reply to Swedneck • • •Aljernon
in reply to Five • • •HurricaneLiz
in reply to Aljernon • • •dogs0n
in reply to Five • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to Five • • •I'm a big fan of the concept of an universal basic income. Where everyone gets ~1000€ every month from the government. For children, the parents get the money.
And I mean everyone. Every legal resident. Including billionaires.
To finance it I would tax both income and capital gains at ~50%. From the very first € you earn.
The net tax load on most people would not actually change much. But it completely gets rid of situations where if people work more, loose their benefits and end up with less.
1000€ should be just about enough to life a frugal lifestyle. A flat with a partner or flatmate in a small town. Produce to cook a flexitarian diet. A public transport pass and a bicycle. A Samsung Galaxy A17 with an internet plan. And all those other real necessities of life.
If people want luxuries, they will still have to work.
Someone still has to produce those consumables after all. But everyone should be able to get all of their basic necessities covered.
lime!
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to lime! • • •Yes, it definitely has to be recalculated frequently. If it doesn't, it will be about as useful as the US minimum wage after some time.
But as I said, most people wouldn't have significantly more or less money than they do today. At least I carefully calculated those numbers so that most people would have pretty much the same, for Germany in 2019. So I don't really expect prices to go up drastically.
It's not that people suddenly have 1000€ extra. Either their unemployment benefits get replaced by that UBI, or they now have to pay an extra 1000€ in taxes.
lime!
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •it's not even supposed to be an "extra 1000€ in taxes", it would just be gradually eaten up by taxes the more you make.
the big problem is, a lot of people on long-term sick pay who are not allowed to work would get less from this system. there needs to be something to deal with that.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to lime! • • •Currently the tax rate is progressive. In the future it wouldn't be anymore. But because those progressive taxes only apply to income over a certain threshold, people with lower incomes would profit more.
This system would not replace social security. If you get a pension due to age or sickness or in your first year of unemployment, you would still be covered by your mandatory insurance. Same with your mandatory health insurance. And you'd still have to pay for it on top of your taxes. The employee and the employer pay 20% of the gross income each.
lime!
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to lime! • • •It would replace long term unemployment benefits. And minimum pension. The benefits that are paid directly by the government, not mandatory insurance.
It would be mostly financed through getting rid of progressive taxes.
lime!
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to lime! • • •What do you mean?
For example if you earn 277k that's currently taxed 42%. Getting rid of the progressive tax, it would be taxed 45%.
It's not enough, to finance a sufficiently high UBI but it's definitely an increase.
lime!
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •if i specifically were to earn 277k that's currently taxed 48% in the system we use, and if we got rid of our progressive brackets it would be taxed at 33%. but we're not talking about specific countries, we're talking about removing progressive taxation from a hypothetical economy to replace in with... what? flat rates?
progressive taxation is an umbrella term for a bunch of systems all over the world. the only thing in common is that as income goes up, so does the percentage of it you need to pay in taxes.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to lime! • • •Flat rates at the maximum tax rate and an UBI that replaces the progressive tax system. Where is that 33% coming from? That clearly isn't the maximum tax rate in your jurisdiction.
I'm aware that there are different progressive tax systems. But to my knowledge they all have a maximum tax rate. One that's, by definition, higher than any other possible tax rate
lime!
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •no it's the normal level. the 48% is the maximum.
i don't see why you can't have ubi and progressive taxation at the same time. you can tailor the curve to work with the extra money. you can even set the maximum rate at 100% for people who earn more than, say, 10M a year.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to lime! • • •lime!
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to lime! • • •BarneyPiccolo
in reply to lime! • • •Exactly. What's to keep the sellers from just jacking everything up?
College was expensive, but affordable, until the government made it easier to get student loans. Colleges responded by wildly jacking up their prices, and now you literally have to voluntarily take on a lifetime of debt to get a college degree for a job that probably won't cover the cost of your loan. And what did the government do? They went right along with it, and demand repayment before anything else.
They recently started a benefit program with Medicare that gives you some money each month to buy health related items in drugstores and such, and they responded by jacking up the prices in Walgreens and CVS.
I'm all for UBI as well, but it has to comes with price controls so the corporate parasites don't just take it all. UBI Gouging has to be a harshly enforced crime.
lime!
in reply to BarneyPiccolo • • •BarneyPiccolo
in reply to lime! • • •RamenJunkie
in reply to BarneyPiccolo • • •What we need is to jail people who do exploitive shit like this. Just like any other harmful acticity we jail people for.
Or maybe jusr, OP's 50% tax deal ramps up the more acxumulated wealth and property you have. Tonstrongly discourage that practice. Like sure, you exploited your rent holdings and you are a ten millionaire. But now we are taxing you at 100% so we can bump people's UBI subsidy up enough to account for your exploitation.
Good job, you accomplished nothing in the end.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to RamenJunkie • • •We can't jail them without a law that makes it illegal.
And if we introduce rent control, we need to replace it with other incentives to build new apartment buildings. Ideally ones that create a slight oversupply of housing. Otherwise, in a decade or so, you get cheap rent but tons of homeless people because the supply is insufficient.
RamenJunkie
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •The incentive is that its what is good for society and good for everyone. The ince tive is doing good. Because people need places to live.
Needs of the many vs needs of the few and all that.
Laws can be made. Laws are all made in the first place.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to RamenJunkie • • •Building apartments currently cost about a quarter million per unit. Plus interest on the mortgage. Most potential landlords don't just have millions in liquid funds.
Nobody will be taking out loans like that if they
won't even earn their investment back if everything goes to plan.
acargitz
in reply to lime! • • •Which is why UBI should be coupled with UBS (universal basic services). In this context, at the very least there would exist also a rental board (like Quebec's existing Regie du Logement). If you're more ambitious, housing would be a universal service and taken out of the market altogether. And don't forget that that 1600E income of the landlord would be also taxed.
More generally:
... Show more...ubiadvocates.org/inflation-and…
Which is why UBI should be coupled with UBS (universal basic services). In this context, at the very least there would exist also a rental board (like Quebec's existing Regie du Logement). If you're more ambitious, housing would be a universal service and taken out of the market altogether. And don't forget that that 1600E income of the landlord would be also taxed.
More generally:
ubiadvocates.org/inflation-and…
Inflation and UBI - Separating Fact from Fiction
Adrian Volenik (UBI Advocates)MonkderVierte
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Samsung is shite.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to MonkderVierte • • •Corkyskog
in reply to MonkderVierte • • •Tetragrade
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Dirty AnCom
in reply to Tetragrade • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to Tetragrade • • •Statistically, university students, part-time employees and non working people in single income households are the most active in protests. They have the time, the means and the education to do so.
Wage slaves don't have time. And if they unionize they might get fired and not have anything anymore. So they don't.
A UBI means everyone is capable of protesting. Why would that produce hapless loosers?
doingthestuff
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •acargitz
in reply to doingthestuff • • •In a political climate where you could actually implement UBI, you would also be able to implement walkability policies.
Also, e-bikes. E-bikes is where it's at.
doingthestuff
in reply to acargitz • • •acargitz
in reply to doingthestuff • • •I'm being speculative, right?
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to doingthestuff • • •The trick is to implement temporary measures at first. Like turning a lane into a sidewalk and a bike lane, by placing planters. Then when it's time to renew the road anyway, the status quo only has one car lane in each direction.
In that situation there will be both the money and the will to build a grade separated sidewalk and bike lane.
doingthestuff
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to doingthestuff • • •That should be the case every 200m or so, if there is no sidewalk. It's really effective at slowing drivers down.
With a speed limit of around 10km/h streets like that can be safe and pretty comfortable for pedestrians
doingthestuff
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •bridgeenjoyer
in reply to acargitz • • •Yeah not in rural areas, we need cars.
Now, im all for banning bro trucks and crossovers over 3500 lbs. If you cant get by with a miata or a wagon, you have to get a special license for a bigger vehicle and pay more because youre damaging the road and endangering others 10x more in your 10,000lb f350 diesel.
acargitz
in reply to bridgeenjoyer • • •Swedneck
in reply to acargitz • • •yeah, reminder that even the USA has an 80% urban population! (below is per-state percentages)

Half the US population lives in these counties:

And
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to bridgeenjoyer • • •Housing in rural areas is usually dirt cheap.
So you can probably afford a car and a rural apartment for the cost of a transit pass and apartment in a well-connected town
bridgeenjoyer
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Totally. And for me thats better, I like having a house and garage with space. I dont mind not being in a busy city center because I feel caged in, and all there is to do in those places us go to bars all the time, something ive never been into.
I go downtown to the arcade sometimes or out to the fitness center/rock wall by my place and thats plenty for me. Sometimes go to the local theater plays and movies. All a 10 minute drive
Random Dent
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •I'm a big fan of it in concept, but TBH the pandemic made me think twice about it. By that I mean, I watched quite a lot of people get put on furlough, so essentially having their needs met while not having to work, and they went fucking crazy, like screaming fights in the shared hallway over literally nothing at 6am crazy. And it happened really fast too. I think a lot of people are so indoctrinated into the concept of having to show up to work and be told what to do that they kind of short-circuit when left to work it out for themselves.
Not that I think we shouldn't do it necessarily, and I'd hope over time it would even out as people got used to it, but it would need to be done very carefully I think. Even if the math and the politics of it make sense, you also have to sort of account for the irrationality of people as well, which I don't often hear a lot of discussion about.
Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to Random Dent • • •Many people also go crazy like that right after they retire. At least for a while. Structure is important for humans, and many find it difficult to create structure themselves.
But an UBI wouldn't mean that people would suddenly be out of work. They 'd still have to work to keep their lifestyle
L7HM77
in reply to Random Dent • • •Just to put my 2 cents on the plate, it seems like a lot of people are stuck in living arrangements they don't actually want to be in, purely for economic reasons. Lots of personality mismatch in close quarters, work is an escape. UBI would probably break apart lots of lives, but hopefully people will build back better.
In respect to being paid to work on hobbies, a lot of the tech sector was furloughed as well. FOSS projects massively improved, seemingly overnight. I've dabbled with Linux on and off during the 2010s, 2021 felt like the year where everything finally clicked together, now I run Linux and FOSS on everything where possible. I'm not sure how to find data to dispute or support that link tho, might just be me.
flamingleg
in reply to Random Dent • • •we need time to collectively un-domesticate our thinking, and to basically recover enough of our lost human identity to even have bandwidth to imagine some way of life other than wage-slavery. It won't be easy or quick to undo generations worth of programming, but the disruption is coming either way, AI and the looming collapse demand it.
Covid also woke lots of people up. Suddenly families had time to spend together (including dysfunctional ones), suddenly normies realised that maybe giant pharmaceutical companies actually don't care about the population's health so much. It showed people that governments can and will drastically intervene in their lives (including by making money rain from the sky) when there is some threat of elite interests actually being effected.
It was a huge, scary and unprecedented event, so it makes sense that people would freak the fuck out. You'll notice i didn't even get into mandates or the insane mania our media pushed during the period.
IDK there was more going on than just 'people suddenly had free time again'. But you're right lots
... Show more...we need time to collectively un-domesticate our thinking, and to basically recover enough of our lost human identity to even have bandwidth to imagine some way of life other than wage-slavery. It won't be easy or quick to undo generations worth of programming, but the disruption is coming either way, AI and the looming collapse demand it.
Covid also woke lots of people up. Suddenly families had time to spend together (including dysfunctional ones), suddenly normies realised that maybe giant pharmaceutical companies actually don't care about the population's health so much. It showed people that governments can and will drastically intervene in their lives (including by making money rain from the sky) when there is some threat of elite interests actually being effected.
It was a huge, scary and unprecedented event, so it makes sense that people would freak the fuck out. You'll notice i didn't even get into mandates or the insane mania our media pushed during the period.
IDK there was more going on than just 'people suddenly had free time again'. But you're right lots of people are already so conditioned that the thought of having the ability to spend their own limited earthly time however they wish literally scares them. These people have been separated from their own humanity, and even if the work is painful they deserve to be recovered as anyone else.
Swedneck
in reply to Random Dent • • •sorry but this is kind of insane logic, it's almost literally "if i free my slaves they wouldn't be able to feed themselves"
I don't think it's an argument worth even thinking about, if it's an actual problem it's something that can be dealt with. Talking about it just gives fuel for people who want to prevent anything from ever changing for the better.
bridgeenjoyer
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •BlameTheAntifa
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to BlameTheAntifa • • •Yes. If someone has a million times the median wealth, there's something wrong with the system.
But how is that relevant here?
BlameTheAntifa
in reply to Flauschige_Lemmata • • •Flauschige_Lemmata
in reply to BlameTheAntifa • • •Honytawk
in reply to Five • • •The problem is that these kinds of people are abundant on the internet where everything is interconnected and distance doesn't mean anything.
But in real life, those people are few and far between. And definitely not one on every 32 km in the world.
Ookami38
in reply to Honytawk • • •HalfSalesman
in reply to Five • • •I work at a tiny 10 person non-profit. I am by far the most computer literate person here by an order of magnitude, given my completely wasted software engineering degree. I offered in my downtime at work to fix a bunch of laptops used by our kids in the after school program that were malfunctioning in some way or another.
I was told to stick to my job description by our Executive Director, and that they'd contact an external IT person to deal with it. I'm an Admin Assistant, which TBH kind of means I wear many hats anyway so my job description is very broad...
So here I am, twiddling my thumbs, posting on Lemmy instead.
Its not only giant corporations. Its infected every modern manager/executive brain. And I want to say, the executive director at my work I consider "one of the good executives". At least by comparison.
(My immediate superior I like... less. She'll do something wrong, I'll try to fix it, and I'll get reprimanded for trying to fix it.)
Darkenfolk
in reply to HalfSalesman • • •Because it's fucked exactly how she likes it, you trying to unfuck it messes up her whole system ;)
Rooster326
in reply to Darkenfolk • • •Most people quite literally think they are above admin assistants.
Imagine the cleaning lady rolls up and fixes the bug you spent hours on in a few seconds.
Echo Dot
in reply to Rooster326 • • •I worked at a company where the cleaning lady was considerably more intelligent than most of the managers. But you was held back because her English wasn't really very good yet so she had to take what work she could.
Meanwhile the managers would rock in at 11:30 and immediately go on an hour lunch break. Usually they would then demand a meeting in the afternoon so they could get up to speed with what everyone was doing which was only necessary because they have been AWOL for the past 4 hours.
dejected_warp_core
in reply to HalfSalesman • • •...
This sounds incredibly top-heavy for such a small company. The fact that you got micro-managed like that in such a rediculously small outfit is kind of unheard of, frankly. Usually small companies are the exact opposite, where there's one owner/operator, the job titles are largely made-up, and everyone just gets everything done because there's usually not enough expertise-hours to go around to solo every task.
gustofwind
in reply to dejected_warp_core • • •HalfSalesman
in reply to dejected_warp_core • • •I meant executives in general, not specifically at my workplace. There is only 1 person with the title "Executive" and shes generally pretty decent.
My immediate boss is the Youth (After School) Program Director and they don't have true executive powers, they just have basic supervisory powers.
I will say, before the Youth Director was hired though, we all generally operated fairly autonomously and without issue, things went smoothly. Since my boss was hired, two separate youth counselors quit, one because her hours were cut (One of the few decisions I found pretty dumb by the executive director) and another specifically because she found my immediate bosses decision making actively hampered the quality of our program and she wasn't working there for the money.
I was once told I should apply for my bosses position and at the time I found the idea completely unattractive. I now regret not applying given who has ended up there.
Digit
in reply to HalfSalesman • • •As we go back to the future, may I paraphrase Doc Emmett Brown:
Breezy
in reply to Five • • •FlyingCircus
in reply to Breezy • • •yngmnwntr
in reply to Breezy • • •i_ben_fine
in reply to yngmnwntr • • •I think it's a little related. Maybe they are both an obsessed freak and also invested in their own community for selfish reasons.
It does have a tinge of "work ethic" and egoist comparison to it though.
HurricaneLiz
in reply to Breezy • • •I bring ppl like you up when someone asks "Who would do x job (that they themselves don't like)?" I'm like "Somebody somewhere likes it."
Thanks for taking care of your store 💜
Canonical_Warlock
in reply to Five • • •pandakhan
in reply to Canonical_Warlock • • •Not that I've had much luck with this, but I have tried to explain to customers/managers that the work is like to do is preventative.
Sure it's "expensive" now, but this reduces potential failures AND reduces maintenance time in the future.
This means we spend $ now, but save $$ later 🤷🏻♂️
Hexarei
in reply to pandakhan • • •hateisreality
in reply to pandakhan • • •Lydia_K
in reply to Five • • •youtu.be/95ATNSkGF3Y
I couldn't resist unblocking this car park drain in Australia
Drain Cleaning AUSTRALIA (YouTube)wakko
in reply to Five • • •The problem is more definitional than anything else.
The basic proposition is to do valuable work, as others define value, in exchange for whatever you consider equivalent compensation.
If others don't see value in alternative ways of operating, you can help define it for them. Map any activity to either money made, money saved, or time saved, or maintenance avoided/automated and just watch how the tone of those "stick to your job description" conversations change.
As soon as you learn to put what matters to you in terms that matter to others, this problem is a whole lot easier to solve.
i_ben_fine
in reply to wakko • • •wakko
in reply to i_ben_fine • • •Nobody said it had to be the same person doing all of it. You talk of social welfare nets like centrally mandated universal basic income, but you can't fathom a volunteerist grassroots community-driven effort. Weird how you want your society to be some bizarre faceless bureaucracy that gives you whatever you want like some magic vending machine.
But, if you're not going to be the one spending your time articulating other people's value, why is that a task that's important enough for someone else to do? If not you, then why would anyone else?
That's the problem with most people's utopian ideology. Most of it involves requiring things of some magical "others". These things aren't ever something that you're willing to give up any of your own time to do solely for someone else's benefit. The guy bitching about how someone should do something about all the litter in the street is somehow never the one to bend his own fat ass over to pick any of it up.
Funny how that works.
This is why America is in the situation it's in. Everyone wants someone else to solve thei
... Show more...Nobody said it had to be the same person doing all of it. You talk of social welfare nets like centrally mandated universal basic income, but you can't fathom a volunteerist grassroots community-driven effort. Weird how you want your society to be some bizarre faceless bureaucracy that gives you whatever you want like some magic vending machine.
But, if you're not going to be the one spending your time articulating other people's value, why is that a task that's important enough for someone else to do? If not you, then why would anyone else?
That's the problem with most people's utopian ideology. Most of it involves requiring things of some magical "others". These things aren't ever something that you're willing to give up any of your own time to do solely for someone else's benefit. The guy bitching about how someone should do something about all the litter in the street is somehow never the one to bend his own fat ass over to pick any of it up.
Funny how that works.
This is why America is in the situation it's in. Everyone wants someone else to solve their problems for them instead of showing up to participate more than one day every fourth November.
i_ben_fine
in reply to wakko • • •wakko
in reply to i_ben_fine • • •BlameTheAntifa
in reply to Five • • •MBech
in reply to BlameTheAntifa • • •Jax
in reply to BlameTheAntifa • • •HurricaneLiz
in reply to Five • • •Echo Dot
in reply to Five • • •mojofrododojo
in reply to Echo Dot • • •Chris Boden
YouTubeAndrew Furrow
in reply to Five • • •Five
in reply to Andrew Furrow • • •m3t00🌎🇺🇦
in reply to Five • • •MiddleAgesModem
in reply to Five • • •Digit
in reply to Five • • •And worse, beneath wage slavery, the "benefits" "welfare" system, that blackmails you into not doing anything, nor appearing like you're doing anything, lest suffering imposed destitution, starvation, freezing, and death by denial of medicine access; and sometimes they'll cull you in an hour of hate anyway even if you were conforming. The worst "bullshit job".
So much lost potential.
Does rather evoke the notion of a genuine UBI & social dividend as superior. ... But can we get that arranged in a mutual decentralised way, not dependent upon those who promote and enact dehumanising culls and countless other abuses upon us?