We're continuing investigation to the performance issues, you can follow and react here: https://lemmy.world/c/friendicaworld

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

As someone who is totally blind, the Fediverse is the only place where I have ever been able to follow people such as photographers, artists, or even those who post pictures of their cats or the food they ate. The reason is that most of them use alt text. They take the time to describe the images that my screen reader can't recognise. Some write the descriptions themselves, and others use tools such as altbot. Some worry that their descriptions aren't good enough, especially when they are new at this. Let me assure you, not only are they good enough, they are extremely appreciated! If the rest of the world thought as you did, it would be a much better place. Don't hesitate to ask if you're unsure of something, but never think that we don't notice your effort.

#appreciation #accessibility #altbot #alttext #blind #blindness #fediverse #gratitude #images #inclusivity #peoplewhocare #pictures #technology

#fediverse #images #pictures #alttext #technology #accessibility #blind #gratitude #appreciation #inclusivity #blindness #altbot #peoplewhocare
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Marches John

I once had to convert MBA lecturers' slides into tactile ones and describe in braille. This was Cambridge Uni so intelligent lecturers you would have thought but finally one said - I guess a picture soes paint a thousand words. My colleague then put up one slide from a lecturer and none of the others could work out what it said as it has some many graphs superimposed on each other. My sheer coincidence I was working on a bible (why it have never been done no idea) when some travelling missionaries knocked on the door. I had just got to the bit in Samuel 2 where God's chosen, King David, sent a man off to certain death in a battle so he could marry the man's wife. They went away
in reply to WoollyMel

mastodon - Link to source

EntangledPear

@MelSedds I didn't know what the Alt was for until an account (or maybe a bot) boosting cat pictures told me I should provide it. I've done so ever since (and edited the ones I posted before that) and besides the obvious benefit, I find creating the descriptions and sometimes giving more context great fun ☺️ (I even learned some new words when I wanted to give accurate descriptions, like calyx.)
@WoollyMel
in reply to WoollyMel

mastodon - Link to source

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦

@MelSedds

Here's something I posted before about an easy way to get more consistent at this... 🙂

mastodonapp.uk/@bytebro/113833…

@dandylover1

bytebro (@bytebro@mastodonapp.uk)

@loren@flipping.rocks I've posted this before, but I'm pretty rubbish at remembering alt-txt, but since I followed @PleaseCaptionBot@hachyderm.
Mastodon App UK
@Georgiana Brummell @WoollyMel
in reply to Lydia Schoch

mastodon - Link to source

xinit ☕

@lydiaschoch I find that I will put extra information in the alt text. Joke that's not in the post itself, perhaps. Pointing out what's strange in the picture. Explaining the joke. Something like it's a SPOILER tag you're only going to get if you check the alt text.

If web comics can do it, why not everyone?

Besides, the character count on alt text is HUGE.

@fdrc_ff @dandylover1

@Fedo ¶ @Lydia Schoch @Georgiana Brummell
in reply to xinit ☕

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Georgiana Brummell

@xinit ☕ @Fedo ¶ @Lydia Schoch Wow! What a wonderful idea! Please forgive my ignorance, but is alt text something that sighted readers can see, or is it only available to screen readers? If so, this is one of the few times in which we actually get to have something that the rest of the world doesn't. If not, it's a great way to encourage sighted people to pay attention to the importance of alt text.
@xinit ☕ @Fedo ¶ @Lydia Schoch
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

xinit ☕

on desktop web browsers, there's a tag in the corner of an image - either ALT or just a scary red exclamation mark (indicating that there's no ALT text).

If a user drags the mouse pointer over the image, the alt text is visible to sighted users. I think most mobile apps show it on a click, but I don't really remember.

@fdrc_ff @lydiaschoch

@Fedo ¶ @Lydia Schoch
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Dec [{()}]

The IMG ALT tag (more correctly, the ALT attribute of the IMG tag) has been a part of the HTML standard since the mid 1990s.
I'm sighted. I haven't tested with a screen reader, but when looking at a Fedi post from a Web browser, the alt text is in the IMG ALT tag. Mouse over, and it just displays the alt text.
Most other social networking platforms seem to put the alt text behind a "click the small ALT button and a popup will pop up" mechanism.
This entry was edited (10 months ago)
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Jennifer Moore 😷

in praise of alt text

Sensitive content

in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Giselle

@xinit @fdrc_ff @lydiaschoch
Alt text is visible to sighted people. When a photo misses alt text, someone will usually jump on that and ask the poster to add. But it's sometimes the servers' fault that the alt text didn't make it across with the photo (something related to Fediverse decentralisation).
I enjoy reading alt text: it tells me what the poster found interesting, where their focus is, what they want us to know. Alt text can add so much nuance to posts.
@xinit ☕ @Fedo ¶ @Lydia Schoch
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Glenn Seto

How well do very general descriptions of popular media references tend to work for members of your community? For example:

Scene from The Empire Strikes Back, Lando Calrissian muttering to himself "This deal's getting worse all the time..."

I'd hope major hits like Star Wars have been made as accessible as possible over the years, but still worry such minimal scene-setting might perpetuate a "you had to be there" feeling of exclusion.

in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

tunda

Manche machen sich Sorgen, dass ihre Beschreibungen nicht gut genug sind, vor allem, wenn sie neu auf diesem Gebiet sind. Ich kann Ihnen versichern, dass sie nicht nur gut genug sind, sondern auch sehr geschätzt werden! Wenn der Rest der Welt so denken würde wie Sie, wäre es ein viel besserer Ort. Zögern Sie nicht zu fragen, wenn Sie sich bei etwas unsicher sind, aber denken Sie nicht, dass wir Ihre Bemühungen nicht bemerken.
in reply to tunda

mastodon - Link to source

tunda

Einige schreiben die Beschreibungen selbst, andere verwenden Tools wie altbot. Manche machen sich Sorgen, dass ihre Beschreibungen nicht gut genug sind, vor allem, wenn sie neu auf diesem Gebiet sind. Ich kann Ihnen versichern, dass sie nicht nur gut genug sind, sondern auch sehr geschätzt werden! Wenn der Rest der Welt so denken würde wie Sie, wäre es ein viel besserer Ort. …

Übersetzt mit DeepL.com (kostenlose Version)

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

David Revoy

@nunesdennis My technique is to imagine that I'm sitting in a movie theater next to someone who can't see the screen, and I have to whisper what I see to them so that they can be part of the experience.
Of course, I don't pretend that my ALT descriptions are perfect or accurate, but they are an extension of my own expression, with my own flaws, mistakes, and way of describing things. And well, I'm a human, not a machine, so I guess that's part of the homemade charm. 😺
@Dennis Nunes
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Professor_Stevens

Thank you so much for posting this! I always include alt-text, but started doing so consistently mostly because self-appointed alt-text cops kept needling me anytime I left it out. This is the first time an alt-text user has actually said something nice about it (that I've seen in my feed, anyway).

Very kind of you to take a moment and say you appreciate it. I will continue to include it.

in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Edge 🇨🇦🇲🇽🇺🇦🏳️‍🌈

What a great post, so helpful and encouraging.

I have a deaf/blind follower who mentioned my alt/text to me early on and I've tried to make a point of it ever since.

Describing colors is important, and all the things that make photos interesting. I figure if people don't want to read the whole thing, no one has to!

But I also try to make it funny, if I can, like dog_rates always does, so there's a point to reading it for everyone. I'm sure I rarely succeed. 😀

Unknown parent

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Georgiana Brummell

@Lydia Vvinters @Kris Herbert I can understand why you're thinking about it in this manner. Certainly, there is a case to be made both ways. If it's strictly meant for information, then short and to the point is good. But if it's about art, photography, etc. then it might make sense to describe it in more detail. But not all of us have seen in the past. So using metaphors, for example, sound pretty but may not truly help us understand what is in the image. It would be like saying "a woman with a face that looks like my mother's is sitting in a chair, holding a book." If you know what my mother looks like, it's fine. But if you don't, it will have no meaning for you. Likewise, I could say "the chair is beautiful" or I can say "the chair has ornate carvings of flowers on the back and has a velvet cushion". The latter tells me a lot more.
@Lydia Vvinters @Kris Herbert
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

josh susser

As a sighted person who posts pics, I find I enjoy writing alt-text descriptions, so I don't mind it or think of it as a burden. I often find something new to appreciate in the picture as I think about how to describe it, and it feels nice to be doing something intentionally inclusive as well. I hope you don't think we're all begrudgingly doing something we hate, because some of us embrace it and are glad to do it.
in reply to Nat Oleander

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

#alttext #long #imagedescriptions #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #CWImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescription #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta @Nat Oleander
in reply to Jupiter Rowland

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Georgiana Brummell

@Jupiter Rowland @Nat Oleander I'm a bit confused. If you write long descriptions, why wouldn't that help to make your images accessible? Alt text doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to give us an idea of what is in the image. It's certainly wonderful when more details are given, but even having an idea of what is going on is better than nothing.
@Jupiter Rowland @Nat Oleander
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

#alttext #metaverse #long #imagedescriptions #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #VirtualWorlds #CWImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescription #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta @Georgiana Brummell @Nat Oleander
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

@Georgiana Brummell @Nat Oleander Well, technically speaking, the long description isn't alt-text.

What went into the actual alt-text of the image were 1,402 characters of visual description + 97 characters of notice that there's a long description in the post. The over 60,000 characters went into the post text body, right below the image itself.

I could have put the long description into the alt-text. But it would have been a nightmare for blind or visually-impaired people because screen readers can't navigate alt-text. Also, Mastodon, Glitch, Hometown, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Sharkey, Catodon and the other Mastodon and Misskey forks chop long alt-texts from outside off at the 1,500-character mark. Mastodon would simply have deleted almost 59,000 characters from my image description on their side, had I put it into the alt-text.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

#alttext #long #imagedescriptions #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #CWImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescription #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta @Georgiana Brummell @Nat Oleander
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

gotosocial - Link to source

Lukáš Tyrychtr

@modulux Also, thanks for the simple fact, that every Fediverse server has a publicly full-featured API, so it is possible to write a client which you want to use, and you do not have to use what some corporation gives you, on platforms of its choosing. Also, thank you again for the image descriptions, they're really appreciated.
@modulux
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

publius

A while back, I built an exhibit I thought people would find interesting.

The first place I took it, I was thanked for having an exhibit which was accessible for the visually-impaired (I'm not certain about totally blind). I hadn't even thought of it that way!

You can read my write-up here. Unfortunately, the "caption" property on the images kind of conflicts with the "alt text" property, and I don't know which one you'll get.

publius.ntfn.org/denwa/taxofon…

New Uses for Old Payphones

publius.ntfn.org
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Bass #Antifa #EcoHumanist

How do I make posts more accessible to blind people on Mastodon and the Fediverse?
fedi.tips/how-do-i-make-posts-…

h/t @FediTips

If there’s no #Alt4Me tag on the undescribed image, it’s still worth being polite as no one wants bad feelings generated around the topic of descriptions. You might want to just reply with a description and #Alt4You tag, and if they’re abled they will hopefully get the message that descriptions are preferred.

#Alt4Me #Alt4You

How do I make posts more accessible to blind people on Mastodon and the Fediverse? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse
fedi.tips
#ALT4you #alt4me @Fedi.Tips 🎄
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Of Bookish Things

I struggle with mine, that are not photos. The asemic art collage compositions I create can be very chaotic. Asemic writing & deconstructed text removes meaning, leaving the codes and conventions of writing and text. A combination of various colours, textures, irregular shapes and lines is an accurate over all description, but the devilishness is in the details.
Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. I've tried using the Alt-for-me tag, but nobody responded.
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Brandon W

If you don't mind my asking - as a comic artist, I usually post full comic pages. There isn't enough alt text room to fully transcribe the page, so usually l will write something like "Page X of the comic Love and Hex. Full transcript: (link to an external page with both the comic image and a complete transcript)" followed by a broader description of what's going on without much detail.

Does that sort of thing suffice, or is there a preferred approach?

in reply to PostcardsFromParadise

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Georgiana Brummell

Yes. That still exists and is all part of WCAG, the guidelines used to create accessible websites, documents, etc. I am still learning it, so I can't answer from a professional point of view. But from a personal one, I find emoticons, emojis, etc. to be annoying, especially when they're used consecutively. "hands clapping" twenty times, for example, or during e-mails or other important communication. I don't mind if someone includes a few in his posts. Websites with clutter, such as adds in the middle of articles, hamburger menus, strange edit boxes, and pages that try to refresh when I read them are annoying, and of course, captchas without any audio option can be not only frustrating but actual barriers. I also convert all pdfs to txt. But as far as alt text, not much causes trouble. Sometimes, having many tags in the beginning or middle of a post, instead of at the end, can be confusing, since I have no way of just scrolling passed them.

Esther #antifa reshared this.

in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Sarah G. Carpenter, Ph.D.

I often get tasked to write alt-text descriptions for the images accompanying SEO blogs. I've read a couple of guides with recommendations for what's most "salient" in alt-text (some of them said, "Don't lead with 'image of' & I thought "'oh ... DUH'"), but is there anything particular that you find especially helpful? Like identifying overhead view or differentiating between foreground vs. background?? Is it context-dependent?
in reply to Joan Albright

mastodon - Link to source

Dilman Dila

@Lironah @HeliaXyana I sometimes write in what I was feeling when taking the photograph, like one time I took a picture of clouds, and I said something like they looked great when I looked up in the sky and saw them, but the picture is crappy.... I find it fun to add such silly details in the alt text.
@Lydia Vvinters @Joan Albright
Unknown parent

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

#alttext #FediMeta #long #imagedescriptions #CWFediverseMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #CWImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescription #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

#alttext #long #imagedescriptions #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #CWImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescription #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Kevin Karhan

thanks!

I've shared this post of you because more people need to know that Alt Text and Image Descriptions are not only good but are appreciated by those that rely on them!

  • The strenght of the Fediverse is based upon it's diversity, and that must include accessibility!

After all it's easy for sighted people to dismiss it when in reality it doesn't take away anything from them if they just write a sentence or two per image.

  • Thabks for letting us know!

#AltText #ImageDescription #Accessibility #Fediverse #blind #inclusion #thanks

#fediverse #alttext #accessibility #thanks #blind #Inclusion #ImageDescription
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Cambionn

You know what? This is a nice post. I never thought much about this. #Fedilab gives me a big yellow warning when there's no #alttext so I just fill it in. But as someone who's only worry is overstimulation it rarely really crosses my mind. This is a good reminder that it dóés matter, and reading it makes me happy I fill it in.
#alttext #fedilab
in reply to David Revoy

mastodon - Link to source

wb x64

@davidrevoy @nunesdennis also, at minimum, consider that the default is something like "image." So even the difference between "photo" and "screenshot" and "meme" at least provides handles on what they're missing.

Obviously enough detail to be included in the conversation is better & elaboration on what's notable or aesthetic is best. Someone could always ask a question if they were curious, but not if they have insufficient info.

I usually elaborate on why it's nice: see attached

@David Revoy @Dennis Nunes
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺

This is wonderful! Please may I ask - I was just adding some alt text to an image and wondered if there's a convention when the text on the post adequately describes the image or I struggle to describe it again without repetition, is alt text still needed/is it annoying listening to it again, or do you always prefer alt text? Thanks!
in reply to James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Georgiana Brummell

@James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺 No. if you describe it, then the alt text really shouldn't be needed. The whole purpose of the alt text is to describe the image, so if that's what you're doing, you don't need to do it twice. However, there may be an exception. Let's say that you have a picture, and "grandma's delicious cake" is written on the picture. Since it's inside the image, a screen reader most likely wouldn't be able to read that without some other extraction/ocr tool. So in that case, you could write the text. Whether you choose to add details "the cake is in a pan, sitting on a large table", is up to you.
@James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺
in reply to James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Georgiana Brummell

@James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺 I actually just saw something very interesting, directly related to our conversation! Someone posted an image with two descriptions. It seemed that he wrote one and then something like Altbot wrote the other. It was fascinating, because while they were describing the same thing, the second was more detailed. Yet either one could have worked and provided the same information. That said, here, the focus was on the image. It wasn't just there in the background with text, so while the double description wasn't technically necessary, it worked.
@James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺
in reply to Gary Brazzell

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Georgiana Brummell

@Gary Brazzell The only other social platforms I've used are Facebook and Dreamwidth. On Facebook, I've never seen alt tags at all. Dreamwidth is a journalling site, so it's really a different thing entirely. I do love the alt text here, though. I was very surprised when I first saw it, and even more so at how many people use them and even refuse to boost images without them! So it was an extremely wonderful thing to realise. As for accessibility, the Basic Mobile site (not app) of Facebook used to be very accessible. Their shutting it down is what made me come to Friendica. I mostly use it via a client called TweeseCake. I am finding various inaccessible features, or at least ones that cause a lot of a nnoyance, on the main site and intend to write to the Friendica Support group about it. Mastodon seems to be accessible from my glancing at it while reading people's profiles.
@Gary Brazzell
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

🌻 Welcome Back 🌻

@zy @shred
@dandylover1
When I get a message in German, the alt text is also in German (for example). It makes it easy to copy and paste into an internet translator.

I have found it helpful when the words are embedded in the picture too. Just go to the alt text and cut and paste.

I'm so happy that it helps people with vision problems.

(I had no idea German would be so important in 2025, but here we are.)

@zy @Shred @Georgiana Brummell
This entry was edited (10 months ago)
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

mastodon - Link to source

Kevin Russell

And add craziness that machines can't see as crazy.

Instance admins report massive AI scraping of Mastodon Posts.

There is work being down now, to poison image data invisibly, but when using alt text make sure to add weirdness to poison AIs.

Use long tweezers with yellow bold tanks. Unsubstantiated greening will flout.

Poison alt text for AIs

Make it fun for readers and yourself.

Its helping end AI.

#ai #altText

#ai #alttext
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

@Spinner @Georgiana Brummell When I want to post an original image, that "one extra minute" is more like several hours or even multiple entire days that it takes to research for and write the descriptions for one image. No, I'm not joking.

Even when I post a meme, I can't describe the visuals in the image itself in a few minutes. And then the explanations (which go into the post itself rather than into the alt-text) come on top.

Still, I always go all the way whenever I post an image. I'd rather not post an image than underdescribe and/or underexplain it. I refuse to do any less than that because I always have to expect someone somewhere out there needing it. That's why I've only posted one measly image in the last 12 months, and that was a meme.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

#alttext #long #imagedescriptions #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #CWImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescription #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta @Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

@Giselle @Jennifer Moore 😷 @Georgiana Brummell This is actually a mistake that many Fediverse user keep making because they don't know better, and because the majority of Mastodon users only have 500 characters available.

Alt-text must never contain information that is neither available in the image nor in the post text itself.

That's because not everyone can access alt-text. I'm being absolutely serious here. In order to access alt-text, you need either a screen reader (which sighted people don't have) or at least one sufficiently working hand.

If you want to explain your image, please do so in the post text itself and not in the alt-text.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta

Jupiter Rowland - jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

hub.netzgemeinde.eu
#alttext #FediMeta #long #CWFediverseMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta @Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Jupiter Rowland

mastodon - Link to source

Giselle

@jupiter_rowland I wish to argue that each Fediverse user gets to make their own decision of what they want to include in alt text. On the understanding that not everyone may be able to see alt text, and that by not extending what they want to say to everyone, the poster loses out.
Strict rules of what we must, or must never do, don't sit right with me.
@Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell

hubzilla - Link to source

Jupiter Rowland

#alttext #FediMeta #long #imagedescriptions #CWFediverseMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWLongPost #LongPost #CWLong #CWImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescriptionMeta #ImageDescription #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMeta @Georgiana Brummell
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