As someone who is totally blind, the Fediverse is the only place where I have ever been able to follow people such as photographers, artists, or even those who post pictures of their cats or the food they ate. The reason is that most of them use alt text. They take the time to describe the images that my screen reader can't recognise. Some write the descriptions themselves, and others use tools such as altbot. Some worry that their descriptions aren't good enough, especially when they are new at this. Let me assure you, not only are they good enough, they are extremely appreciated! If the rest of the world thought as you did, it would be a much better place. Don't hesitate to ask if you're unsure of something, but never think that we don't notice your effort.
#appreciation #accessibility #altbot #alttext #blind #blindness #fediverse #gratitude #images #inclusivity #peoplewhocare #pictures #technology
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Marches John
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Morten Kjeldgaard
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •schuelermine; probably → 39C3
in reply to Morten Kjeldgaard • • •WoollyMel
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •EntangledPear
in reply to WoollyMel • • •Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦
in reply to WoollyMel • • •@MelSedds
Here's something I posted before about an easy way to get more consistent at this... 🙂
mastodonapp.uk/@bytebro/113833…
@dandylover1
bytebro (@bytebro@mastodonapp.uk)
Mastodon App UKSybren Stüvel 🧡🤍
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Thanks for posting this.
I've shared a screenshot of your post on Bluesky as well: bsky.app/profile/drsybren.bsky…
TansterInJakarta (she/her)
in reply to Sybren Stüvel 🧡🤍 • • •@sybren I will do the same if that’s okay with you Georgina. I can omit your name/avatar.
Bluesky actually has a settings option where you can only send your post after adding Alt Text, which I have activated.
Fedo ¶
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Lydia Schoch
in reply to Fedo ¶ • • •xinit ☕
in reply to Lydia Schoch • • •@lydiaschoch I find that I will put extra information in the alt text. Joke that's not in the post itself, perhaps. Pointing out what's strange in the picture. Explaining the joke. Something like it's a SPOILER tag you're only going to get if you check the alt text.
If web comics can do it, why not everyone?
Besides, the character count on alt text is HUGE.
@fdrc_ff @dandylover1
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Georgiana Brummell
in reply to xinit ☕ • •zy
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •zy
in reply to zy • • •Shred
in reply to zy • • •@zy Some Mastodon sites offer to translate a post into the reader's language, which also translates the ALT text. As someone who likes to read posts in languages I'm not fluent with, it helps a lot to understand the pictures as well (e.g. memes or comic strips).
@dandylover1
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🌻 Welcome Back 🌻
in reply to zy • • •You can also follow an alt text not that will remind you when you forget to add alt text. It just sends you a message requesting that you add alt text
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xinit ☕
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •on desktop web browsers, there's a tag in the corner of an image - either ALT or just a scary red exclamation mark (indicating that there's no ALT text).
If a user drags the mouse pointer over the image, the alt text is visible to sighted users. I think most mobile apps show it on a click, but I don't really remember.
@fdrc_ff @lydiaschoch
Dec [{()}]
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •I'm sighted. I haven't tested with a screen reader, but when looking at a Fedi post from a Web browser, the alt text is in the IMG ALT tag. Mouse over, and it just displays the alt text.
Most other social networking platforms seem to put the alt text behind a "click the small ALT button and a popup will pop up" mechanism.
Jennifer Moore 😷
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Sensitive content
I'm sighted and I often look at the alt text on Fediverse graphics!
It's great for things like "here's a person I don't recognise, are they famous, is it a clip from a show and what's the show and why is it relevant here". There are cultural references which would just whoosh over my head without the description.
Or sometimes there'll be one like "photo of woodland, with a squirrel" and I'll be like "oh yeah! there _is_ a squirrel in the corner there" 😀
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Giselle
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Alt text is visible to sighted people. When a photo misses alt text, someone will usually jump on that and ask the poster to add. But it's sometimes the servers' fault that the alt text didn't make it across with the photo (something related to Fediverse decentralisation).
I enjoy reading alt text: it tells me what the poster found interesting, where their focus is, what they want us to know. Alt text can add so much nuance to posts.
xinit ☕
in reply to xinit ☕ • • •Bård H. (lvl 48 🇳🇴)
in reply to xinit ☕ • • •Servelan
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Schalk Neethling
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Lucilla Piccari
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Makyris
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •オチュー (stop colonialism 🇵🇸)
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Trötifant
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •garettmd
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Mo's other photos
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Festive Firehorseart
Unknown parent • • •@Memere
Same. If it's a picture something I'm not familiar with, an alt text explanation helps.
@dandylover1
N Toyohito / 縁 豊人
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Lisa Gets Politik
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Clinton Anderson SwordForHire
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Question, if I may...
Should we also be using #CamelCase in our #HashTags so they're easier for Screen Readers to parse?
Cheers eh
Gary Brazzell
in reply to Clinton Anderson SwordForHire • • •Representative Sample
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Glenn Seto
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •How well do very general descriptions of popular media references tend to work for members of your community? For example:
Scene from The Empire Strikes Back, Lando Calrissian muttering to himself "This deal's getting worse all the time..."
I'd hope major hits like Star Wars have been made as accessible as possible over the years, but still worry such minimal scene-setting might perpetuate a "you had to be there" feeling of exclusion.
tunda
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •tunda
in reply to tunda • • •Einige schreiben die Beschreibungen selbst, andere verwenden Tools wie altbot. Manche machen sich Sorgen, dass ihre Beschreibungen nicht gut genug sind, vor allem, wenn sie neu auf diesem Gebiet sind. Ich kann Ihnen versichern, dass sie nicht nur gut genug sind, sondern auch sehr geschätzt werden! Wenn der Rest der Welt so denken würde wie Sie, wäre es ein viel besserer Ort. …
Übersetzt mit DeepL.com (kostenlose Version)
Joan Albright
Unknown parent • • •Dilman Dila reshared this.
Alt Text Hall of Fame
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •David Revoy
Unknown parent • • •Of course, I don't pretend that my ALT descriptions are perfect or accurate, but they are an extension of my own expression, with my own flaws, mistakes, and way of describing things. And well, I'm a human, not a machine, so I guess that's part of the homemade charm. 😺
like this
small, primitive, wingless, Riedler, 🐈 Kimapr La Gata and Tired Bunny like this.
Joan Albright
Unknown parent • • •Karen D 🇨🇦
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Kat the Leopardess
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •I admit that sometimes I struggle with alt tags. Understanding what there is to see in a picture is one thing, but providing info within the context of the overall post seems like it can come in handy
Curious to know if you tried Bluesky. I ask bc I thought Bluesky has a way to caption images.
DB Schwein
in reply to Kat the Leopardess • • •As BSKY is just a walled off version of the the rest of the fediverse, it does - the same capability as most servers.
Alan Bucknam
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Jake
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Phracker
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Francis Augusto Medeiros
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Professor_Stevens
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Thank you so much for posting this! I always include alt-text, but started doing so consistently mostly because self-appointed alt-text cops kept needling me anytime I left it out. This is the first time an alt-text user has actually said something nice about it (that I've seen in my feed, anyway).
Very kind of you to take a moment and say you appreciate it. I will continue to include it.
Grey
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Sammi
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Hi - I need to learn - how should we go about captioning video?
Thanks!
DB Schwein
in reply to Sammi • • •@SamanthaJaneSmith
I alt it the same way I do an image.
Physical description, then meanings/subtleties that are not as obvious, and if there is one the script
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Sammi
in reply to DB Schwein • • •DB Schwein
in reply to Sammi • • •In so many different kinds of art - it depends!
I would describe what strikes me.
So, "Portrait of a person standing next to a window but entirely made up of straight brushstrokes no single one shorter than the length of the face."
Or, "Bold black lines intersect across a white canvas with a single square of yellow towards the upper right corner."
DB Schwein
in reply to DB Schwein • • •Honestly, if you don't know how on something specific - reach out and ask. If I'm around I'm happy to give it a go, but there's also the hashtag ALT4Me which will summon a figurative army to help you out 😁
Sammi
in reply to DB Schwein • • •Sammi
in reply to DB Schwein • • •Edge 🇨🇦🇲🇽🇺🇦🏳️🌈
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •What a great post, so helpful and encouraging.
I have a deaf/blind follower who mentioned my alt/text to me early on and I've tried to make a point of it ever since.
Describing colors is important, and all the things that make photos interesting. I figure if people don't want to read the whole thing, no one has to!
But I also try to make it funny, if I can, like dog_rates always does, so there's a point to reading it for everyone. I'm sure I rarely succeed. 😀
Star12Mt
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Matt Palmer
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •@kbsez@mstdn.social Has Moved
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Pino Carafa
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 likes this.
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in reply to Pino Carafa • • •clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 likes this.
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in reply to My Shetland • •Kris Herbert
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Christen Lofland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •DB Schwein
in reply to Christen Lofland • • •I read every Alt Text, despite not using a screen reader. I think you might find that quite a few people do!
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Georgiana Brummell
Unknown parent • •Xanathon
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Xanathon • •Xanathon
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xinit ☕
Unknown parent • • •@Memere I've seen posts that say something like "Can you believe this nonsense?"
And the image didn't make said nonsense obvious.
But the alt-text did. Sometimes, explaining the joke works for everyone.
@dandylover1
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Matt Payne
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •SaltPhoenix
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josh susser
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Georgiana Brummell
in reply to josh susser • •Nat Oleander
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Nat Oleander • •Nat Oleander
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Nat Oleander
in reply to Nat Oleander • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Nat Oleander • • •@Nat Oleander It's just a pity that if you post about an obscure enough niche topic like I do, it's the more difficult to make image posts perfectly accessible to everyone, the more obscure the topic is. For the more obscure the topic is, the more you have to describe, and the more you have to explain. (Caution: Never put explanations into alt-text! They must go where everyone can access them.)
I currently write the longest image descriptions in the whole Fediverse by a wide margin. But they may not actually be accessible enough, even though I describe all my original images twice.
The short descriptions in the alt-text don't always contain text transcripts, especially not all of them, and being only short descriptions, they aren't full, detailed visual descriptions either. The long descriptions for the same images in the post regularly end up with a five-digit character count. They may not be accessible because they're way too long. But sometimes they're the only place wher
... Show more...@Nat Oleander It's just a pity that if you post about an obscure enough niche topic like I do, it's the more difficult to make image posts perfectly accessible to everyone, the more obscure the topic is. For the more obscure the topic is, the more you have to describe, and the more you have to explain. (Caution: Never put explanations into alt-text! They must go where everyone can access them.)
I currently write the longest image descriptions in the whole Fediverse by a wide margin. But they may not actually be accessible enough, even though I describe all my original images twice.
The short descriptions in the alt-text don't always contain text transcripts, especially not all of them, and being only short descriptions, they aren't full, detailed visual descriptions either. The long descriptions for the same images in the post regularly end up with a five-digit character count. They may not be accessible because they're way too long. But sometimes they're the only place where all text transcripts can be found. And they are the only place where explanations can be found.
So the consequence should be that I quit posting my original images because they're impossible to make perfectly accessible to everyone, at least as long as there is no rock-solid definition for what's actually required in image descriptions in my obscure edge-case. But there isn't even any consensus on whether text that's illegible or that's so tiny that it's basically invisible must be transcribed if it can be sourced.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
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Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •@Georgiana Brummell I'd say not everyone would consider almost 1,000 characters of image description in a 1,500-character alt-text accessible. And even fewer people would consider a long image description in the post itself that's tens of thousands of characters long accessible if your screen reader spends an hour or several rambling it down.
My most extreme case is a post with only one image. That one image is described twice like all my halfway recent original images. The short description in the alt-text is a bit over 1,400 characters long which barely leaves any room for the note that there is also a long description in the post itself. That long description is over 60,000 characters long. I'm not kidding. It took me two full days from getting up to going to bed to research for it and write it.
Now, there are a few dozen bits and pieces of text all over the image. At the resolution at which I've posted the image, two of them are ever so barely le
... Show more...@Georgiana Brummell I'd say not everyone would consider almost 1,000 characters of image description in a 1,500-character alt-text accessible. And even fewer people would consider a long image description in the post itself that's tens of thousands of characters long accessible if your screen reader spends an hour or several rambling it down.
My most extreme case is a post with only one image. That one image is described twice like all my halfway recent original images. The short description in the alt-text is a bit over 1,400 characters long which barely leaves any room for the note that there is also a long description in the post itself. That long description is over 60,000 characters long. I'm not kidding. It took me two full days from getting up to going to bed to research for it and write it.
Now, there are a few dozen bits and pieces of text all over the image. At the resolution at which I've posted the image, two of them are ever so barely legible for sighted people. They're on a large logo on a building. Four more, two of them on that logo, too, two more on a sign on an easel, are illegible, but still visible. At least more on signs inside the building are visible, but they can't easily be identified as text. All the others are so tiny that they're invisible. It takes the long image description to even know where they are, for example, on the control panels of teleporters.
And yet, they are all within the borders of the image. And I can transcribe them. I can't read them in the image, but I can go to the place shown in the image and take closer looks.
Unfortunately, the rule or guideline that any and all text in an image must be transcribed verbatim does not take into consideration text that can't be read in the image, but that can be sourced and thus transcribed by whoever posts the image. No confirmation, no exception. And so I have to assume that I have to transcribe illegible text as well. And so I do transcribe them all.
But there's no way for me to put all these text transcripts into the alt-text, not if I want to keep Mastodon, Misskey and their forks from chopping it off at the 1,500-character mark. I'd also have to explain where all these pieces of text are, after all. And so the text transcripts are only available in the 60,000-character monster of a long image description.
It isn't really accessible to expect blind users to have their screen readers ramble and ramble and ramble for hours, just to get information that should actually belong into the alt-text which, in turn, shouldn't be longer than 200 characters.
On the other hand, it doesn't really seem accessible to me if I expect people to ask me to describe things in the image for them. It rather feels sloppy, if not out-right ableist to not describe everything that someone could possibly want to know right away.
The problem with my images is that they're renderings from very obscure 3-D virtual worlds. This means that nobody knows what anything in these images looks like unless they can see these images. This, in turn, means that I cannot expect anyone to know what something in my images looks like anyway. They don't.
At the same time, I can't expect everyone to not care about my images. In fact, I expect the very topic of 3-D virtual worlds that actually exist to make people curious. At this point, it doesn't matter what's important in my images within the context of the post. Sighted people will go explore the new and unknown world by taking closer looks at all the big and small details in the image.
But blind or visually-impaired people may be just as curious. They may want the same chance to explore this new world by experiencing what's in that one image. Denying them the same chances as sighted people is ableist. But giving them this chance requires an absolutely titanic image description.
Sure, I describe lots of details which a sighted person can't possibly recognise when looking at the image, especially not at the resolution of the image as I've posted it. But I simply can't keep telling blind or visually-impaired people that certain things in the image can't be recognised due to the image resolution. It feels lazy, like weaseling out. I mean, I can see all these details. Not in the image, but where the image was made, simply by walking closer to them or moving the camera closer to them.
If there are two dark objects inside a building that may or may not be plants, but that can't be identified as plants by looking at the image, why shouldn't I describe them as follows: "On the sides of the teleport panel, there are two identical açaí palms in square terracotta pots with wide rims. Like the other potted plants, these mostly dark green plants with long pointy leaves are kept at an indoor-compatible size, namely about three and a half metres or eleven and a half feet tall. Also, like the other potted plants, they are made of only four flat surfaces with partially transparent pictures of the plant on them, arranged in angles of 45 degrees to one another."
If there's room for improvement in my image descriptions, I improve my future image descriptions and declare my past image descriptions outdated. In fact, the 60,000-character-long description is outdated because it's bad style to describe dimension using measures. Instead, dimensions should be described by comparing them with something everyone is familiar with like body parts.
Right now, by the way, I'm upping my game at describing avatars, using rules and guidelines for describing people which I've discovered over the last few months. The last time I've described an avatar, I've done so in about 7,000 characters, but according to my new discoveries, I may have missed something.
However, I can't go into so much detail while still making my image descriptions short enough that a screen reader can read through them in under a minute.
CC: @Nat Oleander
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Metaverse #VirtualWorlds #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
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Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •@Georgiana Brummell @Nat Oleander Well, technically speaking, the long description isn't alt-text.
What went into the actual alt-text of the image were 1,402 characters of visual description + 97 characters of notice that there's a long description in the post. The over 60,000 characters went into the post text body, right below the image itself.
I could have put the long description into the alt-text. But it would have been a nightmare for blind or visually-impaired people because screen readers can't navigate alt-text. Also, Mastodon, Glitch, Hometown, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Sharkey, Catodon and the other Mastodon and Misskey forks chop long alt-texts from outside off at the 1,500-character mark. Mastodon would simply have deleted almost 59,000 characters from my image description on their side, had I put it into the alt-text.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
Ponder Stibbons 🇧🇷🇩🇪
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Twobiscuits🚴♂️
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Robert Logger 🇳🇱
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Artemisia Vulgaris
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •I had never written alt text before joining the fediverse, but I’ve come to appreciate the opportunity it gives me to think about why I posted the image and what’s worth knowing about it. I still do worry, but I feel more relaxed thanks to your post.
Lukáš Tyrychtr
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Chris Walter
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
publius
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •A while back, I built an exhibit I thought people would find interesting.
The first place I took it, I was thanked for having an exhibit which was accessible for the visually-impaired (I'm not certain about totally blind). I hadn't even thought of it that way!
You can read my write-up here. Unfortunately, the "caption" property on the images kind of conflicts with the "alt text" property, and I don't know which one you'll get.
publius.ntfn.org/denwa/taxofon…
New Uses for Old Payphones
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Nate Allen
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
DB Schwein
Unknown parent • • •Just out of curiosity, if you have no vision impairment - why does your avi have glasses on?
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indi 🪡
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
ZZ Bottom
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Bass #Antifa #EcoHumanist
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •How do I make posts more accessible to blind people on Mastodon and the Fediverse?
fedi.tips/how-do-i-make-posts-…
h/t @FediTips
If there’s no #Alt4Me tag on the undescribed image, it’s still worth being polite as no one wants bad feelings generated around the topic of descriptions. You might want to just reply with a description and #Alt4You tag, and if they’re abled they will hopefully get the message that descriptions are preferred.
#Alt4Me #Alt4You
How do I make posts more accessible to blind people on Mastodon and the Fediverse? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
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J. Cliff Dyer
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •A friendly suggestion to all the people who follow me here: put alt text on your images. It makes a difference!
@glyph
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Servelan
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Irina
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Scarlet Phoenix Collective
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Lydia Schoch
Unknown parent • • •Of Bookish Things
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. I've tried using the Alt-for-me tag, but nobody responded.
Esther #antifa
in reply to Of Bookish Things • • •@JPK_elmediat
Maybe #altbot@fuzzies.wtf (replace # by @) can help you to make a start.
@dandylover1
🐕 Paul 🦄
Unknown parent • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Frank Hightower
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Brandon W
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •If you don't mind my asking - as a comic artist, I usually post full comic pages. There isn't enough alt text room to fully transcribe the page, so usually l will write something like "Page X of the comic Love and Hex. Full transcript: (link to an external page with both the comic image and a complete transcript)" followed by a broader description of what's going on without much detail.
Does that sort of thing suffice, or is there a preferred approach?
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Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Brandon W • •AJ Dunevent
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Fedi.Tips 🎄
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
piku minor!
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •PostcardsFromParadise
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Are there things your screen reader has trouble with or that make listening more tedious?
I remember from years ago there was a sequence preference for some things. For example, with lists, I think the preference was word first, then tick box or radio button.
Georgiana Brummell
in reply to PostcardsFromParadise • •Esther #antifa reshared this.
Sarah G. Carpenter, Ph.D.
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •joy larkin 🌺✨
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
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in reply to joy larkin 🌺✨ • •Dilman Dila
in reply to Joan Albright • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
David
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Esther #antifa
Unknown parent • • •@schoolboy
Replace the # by a @ in #altbot@fuzzies.wtf or summon the alt4me army by using the hastag #Alt4Me.
@dandylover1
Jupiter Rowland
Unknown parent • • •@Erik van Straten
I always spend more time describing my images than writing the post that they go into.
For my meme posts, that's because I have to explain the picture and find the appropriate links to external explanations (KnowYourMeme etc.) to shorten my explanation block if possible.
For my original images, it's because I have to describe them twice. There's always an alt-text which, as of late, fills the 1,500-character limit imposed by Mastodon, Misskey etc. to the brim. But that alt-text is only a shortened and slightly adapted version of an extremely long long description which goes into the post text body and which also includes transcripts of any and all text in the image, readable or not, as well as all explanations which I deem necessary for outsiders to understand the image.
... Show more...@Erik van Straten
I always spend more time describing my images than writing the post that they go into.
For my meme posts, that's because I have to explain the picture and find the appropriate links to external explanations (KnowYourMeme etc.) to shorten my explanation block if possible.
For my original images, it's because I have to describe them twice. There's always an alt-text which, as of late, fills the 1,500-character limit imposed by Mastodon, Misskey etc. to the brim. But that alt-text is only a shortened and slightly adapted version of an extremely long long description which goes into the post text body and which also includes transcripts of any and all text in the image, readable or not, as well as all explanations which I deem necessary for outsiders to understand the image. Since the images are about an extremely obscure niche topic, this means I have to explain a lot.
A while ago, I spent two full days, morning to evening, researching for and describing and explaining one single image. The result was probably the longest image description ever posted in the Fediverse. And I actually had to limit myself, otherwise the description would have been even vastly longer and taken over a month to complete. Good thing I don't have any character limit to worry about. The only exception is that Mastodon may reject posts from outside with over 100,000 characters.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •I do have a few questions, specifically because my image posts have gone unnoticed by blind or visually-impaired users so far.
Judging and assuming from the information I've gathered so far, my original images require very extensive and detailed descriptions. A full description is too long for alt-text, so what I do is write a full description with all text transcripts and all necessary explanations, put it into the post text body and then condense a shorter, but still long alt-text from it. What's your stance on this method of describing the same image twice over?
Also, where would you personally prefer a long description? In the post itself? Or in an external document that's linked into the post? If you're on a phone app, remember that the external document will inevitably open your Web browser.
Do you prefer images described, based on what a sighted person can see in the image as it is posted? Or do you prefer a description that is
... Show more...I do have a few questions, specifically because my image posts have gone unnoticed by blind or visually-impaired users so far.
Judging and assuming from the information I've gathered so far, my original images require very extensive and detailed descriptions. A full description is too long for alt-text, so what I do is write a full description with all text transcripts and all necessary explanations, put it into the post text body and then condense a shorter, but still long alt-text from it. What's your stance on this method of describing the same image twice over?
Also, where would you personally prefer a long description? In the post itself? Or in an external document that's linked into the post? If you're on a phone app, remember that the external document will inevitably open your Web browser.
Do you prefer images described, based on what a sighted person can see in the image as it is posted? Or do you prefer a description that is not limited by the restriction of the image itself, for example, assuming an infinite image resolution and an infinite zoom factor that would let sighted people theoretically see even tiniest details?
If I mention something in my image description of which you don't know what it looks like, do you need a detailed visual description?
Concerning text transcripts: Let's assume a bit of text in an image is too small to be legible for sighted people, but I can read it at the original source, so I can transcribe it nonetheless. Shall I transcribe it? What about if said text is too small to be recognisable as text or so tiny that's it's practically invisible? I mean, after all, the concept of image resolution should not matter to totally blind people, so writing that a piece of text can't be read because the resolution of the image is too low ought to sound like a lame excuse for skimping a transcript.
If there's a building in one of my images, I can safely assume that you don't know what that one specific building looks like, so I guess I can also assume that you need it described. If I could, I would do so using architectural terms and then explaining all these architectural terms right after using them. Would you say that's the correct way? Because that's why I avoid having realistic buildings in my images.
If there's an image in my image, do you need it described? At a level that I can source right where the image is without moving away too far, or at a level that I can only source by moving farther away to the place shown in the image? What about an image in an image in my image? (I'm serious. I've actually described images within images within my image, but I've stopped when this was about to go out of hand due to there being too many to describe.)
I'm currently working on a series of posts with images showing a virtual-world avatar in various but similar outfits; in fact, I have been since last year. I may have questions later regarding at what level of detail I have to describe that avatar.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
Kevin Karhan
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •thanks!
I've shared this post of you because more people need to know that Alt Text and Image Descriptions are not only good but are appreciated by those that rely on them!
After all it's easy for sighted people to dismiss it when in reality it doesn't take away anything from them if they just write a sentence or two per image.
#AltText #ImageDescription #Accessibility #Fediverse #blind #inclusion #thanks
Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Kevin Karhan • •Esther #antifa
Unknown parent • • •@schoolboy
Inconvenient? ...
Well, actually, check this answer from Georgiana:
friendica.world/display/84b6ef…
@dandylover1
Georgiana Brummell
2025-01-25 16:50:18
Cambionn
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell
Unknown parent • •@My best life 🎒 This is actually what I mean when I say altbot. It's very easy to use, and the instructions are on the page.
fuzzies.wtf/@altbot
korakophilos 🅅//TelephoneJax
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Florian Haas
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Florian Haas • •Em
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Lyn
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •@LittleRedhead
Will do as soon and as good as I can. I promise. Sorry for ignoring this until now 🥹
My name is Gordo
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •wb x64
in reply to David Revoy • • •@davidrevoy @nunesdennis also, at minimum, consider that the default is something like "image." So even the difference between "photo" and "screenshot" and "meme" at least provides handles on what they're missing.
Obviously enough detail to be included in the conversation is better & elaboration on what's notable or aesthetic is best. Someone could always ask a question if they were curious, but not if they have insufficient info.
I usually elaborate on why it's nice: see attached
wb x64
in reply to wb x64 • • •James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell
in reply to James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺 • •James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Georgiana Brummell
in reply to James 🦉 #FBPE 🇪🇺 • •Stephen
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Gary Brazzell
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell
in reply to Gary Brazzell • •Dr Jonathan Downie
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
Dźwiedziu
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •“Whom does not see, yet has thousands of eyes writing for them?”
Georgiana Brummell likes this.
🌻 Welcome Back 🌻
Unknown parent • • •@zy @shred
@dandylover1
When I get a message in German, the alt text is also in German (for example). It makes it easy to copy and paste into an internet translator.
I have found it helpful when the words are embedded in the picture too. Just go to the alt text and cut and paste.
I'm so happy that it helps people with vision problems.
(I had no idea German would be so important in 2025, but here we are.)
Yesterday's Rose
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Georgiana Brummell likes this.
NyakoKitty
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •🌼 Dagnabbit, Pascaline! 🌼
in reply to NyakoKitty • • •@NyakoKitty
So did I 😊
@dandylover1
Mikko Rintasaari
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Kevin Russell
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •And add craziness that machines can't see as crazy.
Instance admins report massive AI scraping of Mastodon Posts.
There is work being down now, to poison image data invisibly, but when using alt text make sure to add weirdness to poison AIs.
Use long tweezers with yellow bold tanks. Unsubstantiated greening will flout.
Poison alt text for AIs
Make it fun for readers and yourself.
Its helping end AI.
#ai #altText
Joe
in reply to Kevin Russell • • •Kevin Russell
in reply to Joe • • •Let's not spread bullshit for AI.
KChernecky For Democracy
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Common Sparrow
in reply to wb x64 • • •I am not visually impaired, but I love alt text and almost always read it. It clues me in on things I would otherwise miss. This photo you have posted here is a perfect example, because I didn't even notice the duck until your alt text drew my attention to it!
Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Alt Text Hall of Fame
in reply to Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™ • • •Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™ reshared this.
Spinner
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • •@Spinner @Georgiana Brummell When I want to post an original image, that "one extra minute" is more like several hours or even multiple entire days that it takes to research for and write the descriptions for one image. No, I'm not joking.
Even when I post a meme, I can't describe the visuals in the image itself in a few minutes. And then the explanations (which go into the post itself rather than into the alt-text) come on top.
Still, I always go all the way whenever I post an image. I'd rather not post an image than underdescribe and/or underexplain it. I refuse to do any less than that because I always have to expect someone somewhere out there needing it. That's why I've only posted one measly image in the last 12 months, and that was a meme.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
Giselle
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • •@Giselle @Jennifer Moore 😷 @Georgiana Brummell This is actually a mistake that many Fediverse user keep making because they don't know better, and because the majority of Mastodon users only have 500 characters available.
Alt-text must never contain information that is neither available in the image nor in the post text itself.
That's because not everyone can access alt-text. I'm being absolutely serious here. In order to access alt-text, you need either a screen reader (which sighted people don't have) or at least one sufficiently working hand.
If you want to explain your image, please do so in the post text itself and not in the alt-text.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta
Jupiter Rowland - jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
hub.netzgemeinde.euGiselle
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Strict rules of what we must, or must never do, don't sit right with me.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • •@Giselle I've been told that by a Mastodon user who really values accessibility. However, she told me that she cannot access alt-texts because both of her hands don't work well enough for her to access alt-text.
It was her who told me to never explain things in alt-text because she and people like her can't read these explanations, because they can't open the alt-text with these explanations inside.
Explaining stuff in alt-text and not in the post throws people like her in front of a bus, just like not describing images at all throws blind and visually-impaired people in front of a bus.
I have explained my image posts in the post text body ever since, regardless of Mastodon users whining that I exceed 500 characters.
Explanations go into the post/toot where everyone can access them.
I mean, sure, you're free to put them only in the alt-text because your character limit is so meagre. You're just as free to write super-sho
... Show more...@Giselle I've been told that by a Mastodon user who really values accessibility. However, she told me that she cannot access alt-texts because both of her hands don't work well enough for her to access alt-text.
It was her who told me to never explain things in alt-text because she and people like her can't read these explanations, because they can't open the alt-text with these explanations inside.
Explaining stuff in alt-text and not in the post throws people like her in front of a bus, just like not describing images at all throws blind and visually-impaired people in front of a bus.
I have explained my image posts in the post text body ever since, regardless of Mastodon users whining that I exceed 500 characters.
Explanations go into the post/toot where everyone can access them.
I mean, sure, you're free to put them only in the alt-text because your character limit is so meagre. You're just as free to write super-short alt-texts that don't really describe anything. You're just as free to not describe your images at all.
But don't complain if someone criticises you for either.
CC: @Georgiana Brummell
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
👩🦯The Blind Fraggle
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •LiseCG
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •VladimirN
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •hi there, thank you for this post.
I want to tell that despite I always use alt text field for my posts but I do find it very difficult.
What is *needed*, important, nice to have or useless in such description ?
Do you know of a resource to enable me to find answers to these questions?
Best regards.
Coq
in reply to Georgiana Brummell • • •